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View Full Version : PSIONICS ROCK, but...HELP!!![3.5]



Silverlich
2011-01-26, 08:42 PM
So...I love the flavor of psions. Just love them. Can you please help me with power selections, feats, etc. to build a psion focused on save-or-suck/lose/die spells? Any source is okay, as long as it is published by WoTC, remains psionic, and is a sourcebook rather than Dragon Magazine. However, for the sake of my not dying horribly, cite your sources.

vikingofdoom
2011-01-26, 09:03 PM
Crisis of Breath, Crisis of Life, Decerebate, Recall Death, and Death Urge are all good SoD spells from the XPH; Deceleration, Mindwipe, Mind Crush, and Fuse Flesh are all good SoS/SoL spells.

Psyren
2011-01-26, 09:08 PM
It's old and doesn't elaborate much, but this list (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19537882/What_Is_the_Most_Powerful_Psionic_Power) has most of the good ones (from the XPH anyway)

I'll get around to an updated version when I'm done mucking about with Psionics Unleashed for Pathfinder.

In terms of Save or X, Nomads and Telepaths tends to be best at it, with perhaps Egoists coming third. Kineticists get lots of energy powers, most of which can target either reflex or fort, and a few of which have alternate effects besides just damage e.g. Energy Stun/Wave. Seers have the odd offensive power but are usually best on defense or as gishes.

Silverlich
2011-01-26, 09:09 PM
What is SoS/SoL? I'm not good at abbreviations.




</ignorance>

Psyren
2011-01-26, 09:10 PM
What is SoS/SoL? I'm not good at abbreviations.

You used them in your own post :smallsmile:

SoS = Save or Suck
SoL = "" "" Lose
SoD = "" "" Die

Czin
2011-01-26, 09:10 PM
What is SoS/SoL? I'm not good at abbreviations.




</ignorance>

Save or Suck, Save or Lose. The former I know for sure, the latter...not so much.

Edit: Ninja'd by Psyren.

Silverlich
2011-01-26, 09:12 PM
Yay! I love you guys already! So now let's assume I'm going telepath. (unlesss this is a bad choice.) Spell selection?

tyckspoon
2011-01-26, 09:14 PM
Not a Save-or on it's own, but a useful tool for characters that want to make them land: Primal Fear, 1st level power, Races of Eberron. Swift action, no-save Shaken for 1 round. It's kind of like having a metapsionic feat: pay 1 PP, your save DC increases by 2.

Silverlich
2011-01-26, 09:17 PM
:smallbiggrin:

Psyren
2011-01-26, 09:22 PM
Yay! I love you guys already! So now let's assume I'm going telepath. (unlesss this is a bad choice.) Spell selection?

Telepath is fine; unlike, say, an Enchanter, you're not actually "giving up" any "schools" with that choice. Plus they get Telepathy as an ACF at 5 (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20070411a) which qualifies you for Mindsight.

What powers you pick depends on your party; Telepaths are generally controllers, holding the monsters in place so the BSF can clean them up for you. I'd suggest Grease, Charm and Inertial Armor for 1st-level unless you're all alone.

EvilJoe15
2011-01-26, 09:39 PM
Non-specific:

Swarm of Crystals (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/swarmofCrystals.htm) is one of the very few no Save, no SR, no attack just damage effects around. It's good back up if you fight something immune to your Save or Xs.

Ego Whip (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/egoWhip.htm) is a decent low level debuff, and SoS. If you can consistantly make them fail it's a good lock down power.

Mindwipe (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/mindwipe.htm) AKA psionic Enervation. When you get it's a SoS, later it's a SoL/D

Death Urge (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/deathUrge.htm). Straight up SoD.


Decerebrate (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/decerebrate.htm) Straight up SoL

Recall Death (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/recallDeath.htm) Save or Die, but a successful save still does damage.

Telepath specific:

Brain Lock (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/brainLock.htm): Similar to Ego Whip, except no Cha damage, and the Daze effect lasts longer.


Crisis of Breath (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/crisisofBreath.htm): Save or Suck with an after effect SoL.

Dominate (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/dominatePsionic.htm): Save or I control you. You'll find uses for this.

Crisis of Life (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/crisisofLife.htm): Has more in common with Recall Death then Crisis of Breath.

Mind Seed (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/mindSeed.htm) Pricey, but I think it's worth the Mr. Smith effect.

True Mind Switch (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/mindSwitchTrue.htm): Use this on a big nasty monster to turn it into a weak pathetic [Insert Your Race Here], and you into a big nasty monster. Again pricey, but worth it.

You may also want to invest in Twin Power (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/psionicFeats.htm#twinPower). Incase you aren't sure your target will fail it's save.

Silverlich
2011-01-26, 09:41 PM
i think i'm in love with mind seed.

sonofzeal
2011-01-26, 09:46 PM
Not a Save-or on it's own, but a useful tool for characters that want to make them land: Primal Fear, 1st level power, Races of Eberron. Swift action, no-save Shaken for 1 round. It's kind of like having a metapsionic feat: pay 1 PP, your save DC increases by 2.
Woah. With fear-stacking that's.... nuts. Broken, even, in the right hands.

tyckspoon
2011-01-26, 09:52 PM
Woah. With fear-stacking that's.... nuts. Broken, even, in the right hands.

Which is why it explicitly doesn't fear-stack, unfortunately. It's still a pretty awesome power. "Yes, you're afraid. No, you don't get a choice." Good opener for a Linked Power if you're not going for buffs instead.

Psyren
2011-01-26, 10:02 PM
The best Telepath power (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/schism.htm) has not yet been mentioned.

And don't forget this one (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/psychicReformation.htm) if you ever feel like your current powers/feats aren't pulling their weight. (Nearly) instant retrain!

Silverlich
2011-01-26, 10:12 PM
what if my three first level one powers were primal fear, psionic charm, and mind thrust?

Kalaska'Agathas
2011-01-26, 11:18 PM
I'm not exactly an expert on Telepaths specifically, but there are some really nifty tricks in my Psionic Tricks Handbook (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=177889) /shameless self plug.

If you can fit in a level of Monk and the feats Monastic Training (Eberron Campaign Setting, pg. 57), Tashalatora (Secrets of Sarlona, pg. 119), and Carmendine Monk (Champions of Valor, pg. 28, or here (http://www.realmshelps.net/cgi-bin/feats.pl?Carmendine_Monk)) you will get Int to AC while unarmored (which, as you're not proficient with armor, will likely be frequently) and flurry of blows and all of that, which helps with survivability some.

Also, just general advice - have at least 13 Wis, to pick up Psionic Meditation (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/psionicFeats.htm#psionicMeditation). Never forget to share Vigor with your Psicrystal (and then manifest Share Pain), this will keep you alive. Synchronicity is your friend. Linked Power is your friend. Complete Psionics is generally not your friend. Synchronicity+Affinity field is your friend (along with everyone else within 30 feet of you, natch).

Finally, shoot straight, conserve PP (or don't, if you have a recharge set up), watch your back, and never, ever, cut a deal with a mindflayer.

Garryl
2011-01-27, 12:18 AM
If you have the 13 Wisdom needed for Psionic Meditation, you should strongly consider spending another two feats on Metamorphic Transfer and Expanded Knowledge (Metamorphosis (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/metamorphosis.htm)). The combo gives incredible versatility with all the forms Metamorphosis can give. Some strong options include taking a Pixie's (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/sprite.htm) greater invisibility and flight, a Choker's (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/choker.htm) extra standard actions, or a Blink Dog's (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/blinkDog.htm) free action teleportation, and that's just scratching the surface of what's available.

Psicrystals are very useful. They share your skills, which means they can almost always give you a +2 bonus with aid another to anything. They can do most everything that familiars can do, and more, with better durability due to their hardness 8. Unlike familiars, they gain feats with their hit dice (equal to yours), which can give them options of their own. On top of that, the Solicit Psicrystal (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/solicitPsicrystal.htm) power lets it concentrate on a power for you, and there are quite a few good ones. Control Body (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/controlBody.htm) is a good save-or-lose on its own, but when manifested on yourself and solicited, it can give you Int to attack, damage, and AC, along with allowing you a full set of physical actions per round (warning, may require Concentration checks to manifest powers). Brain Lock is another nice concentration duration save-or-lose power.

Essence_of_War
2011-01-27, 01:09 AM
what if my three first level one powers were primal fear, psionic charm, and mind thrust?

Some of the best 1st level powers, in no particular order:
Astral Construct, Crystal Shard, Vigor, Inertial Armor,

If you want to be a telepath, you can only nab Astral Construct through taking Expanded Knowledge (another great target for that feat btw is Energy Missile off of the kineticist list. The save augments stupidly well and hits an area).

I would take Crystal Shard, Inertial Armor or Vigor, and Psionic Charm. Gives you something offensive, something defensive, and something social.

Keld Denar
2011-01-27, 01:16 AM
You can also pick up 1st level powers with Hidden Talent. Act now, and get 2 free power points absolutely free of charge! Just pay shipping and handling!

Essence_of_War
2011-01-27, 01:21 AM
Keld,

Can you nab ones that aren't on your class list? If so, that makes it pretty sick first expanded knowledge.

Keld Denar
2011-01-27, 01:49 AM
Yessir. A great grab with it is Dimension Hop. It only appears on the Freedom Mantle list, so Psions and PsyWars can't even get it without EK or such. Its pretty much awesome. Astral Construct is another great pick.

potatocubed
2011-01-27, 07:26 AM
If your game features things other than combat, mindlink (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/mindlink.htm) is gold. Instant intra-party conversations, plus the ability to communicate with anything that thinks? Score.

Silverlich
2011-01-27, 09:44 AM
on an unrelated note, I love the Fhtagn-dahs avatar.



It's like "Oh, an ice cream truc-HOLY CRAP CTHULHU!!!"

Silverlich
2011-01-27, 09:52 AM
i'm curious, why is inertial armor better than force screen?

Keld Denar
2011-01-27, 10:00 AM
Duration. IA is hours/level (like Mage Armor), while Force Screen is rounds/level (like Shield). If you had both, great. If you had just one, and you weren't already wearing armor, IA is the more efficient choice.

Silverlich
2011-01-27, 10:24 AM
So...Crystal shard, psionic charm, inertial armor? I can take primal fear next level, and something else. Why do you say that mind thrust is not as good as crystal shard?

Reynard
2011-01-27, 10:29 AM
So...Crystal shard, psionic charm, inertial armor? I can take primal fear next level, and something else. Why do you say that mind thrust is not as good as crystal shard?

Because crystal shard can't be avoided, while Mind Thrust allows a Will save.

Silverlich
2011-01-27, 10:45 AM
Level 1-Inertial armor, Crystal Shard, Psionic Charm
Level 2-Primal Fear, Deja Vu

Garryl
2011-01-27, 10:53 AM
Fun fact: Powers don't suffer from arcane spell failure. Even though Psions don't gain any armor proficiency, they can still use any armor they come across without affecting their ability to manifest powers (other than those that require attack rolls). Especially at lower levels, it might be better to walk around in a chain shirt or even full plate (if you come across a spare set) than to worry about Inertial Armor and Force Screen. Do note that nonproficiency will hurt a lot of other things, so check the details before you don the armor.

For survival purposes, you can't go wrong with Vigor, Share Pain (2nd), and a psicrystal. The first 3 power points (for Share Pain on your psicrystal) effectively increase your HP by up to 50% for 1 hour/level. Each subsequent PP (on Vigor shared with your psicrystal) is like another 10 hp for 1 minute/level. There are very few things nearly that efficient, like the Heal spell (Cleric 6, 10 hp/level).

Keld Denar
2011-01-27, 11:00 AM
Non-proficiency applies ACP to ALL ability checks and attack rolls though. That means your roll to hit with an Energy Ray or similar, and also YOUR INITIATIVE CHECK!!!! Going first is good, going dead last can get you dead.

Garryl
2011-01-27, 12:05 PM
I never noticed that it hurt your initiative. Thanks for pointing that out.

Essence_of_War
2011-01-27, 12:48 PM
Strongly consider taking hidden talent/expanded knowledge to pick Energy Missile and Astral Construct at some point. You can be a major thorn in your enemies side with just those two powers.

Kalaska'Agathas
2011-01-27, 01:28 PM
You can also (theoretically speaking) trap your opponent inside an Astral Construct.

Another thing you might consider, depending on the level you start at, is going Erudite rather than Psion. This opens up all sorts of neat tricks.

Finally, do remember to ask your DM if he allows Psicrystals to gain feats (they do by RAW). If so, it can take Hidden Talent and then a bunch of Psionic Feats (including Metapsionics) which you can then borrow with Feat Leach (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/featLeech.htm) - which opens up several options for you.

Edit: Oh, and what sort of Character do you want to play? What sort of build do you intend to go for?

Silverlich
2011-01-27, 03:23 PM
A save-or-suck/lose/die based telepath.

Silverlich
2011-01-27, 03:26 PM
At first level, should I pick Vigor or Inertial armor?

Keld Denar
2011-01-27, 03:28 PM
Inertial Armor. Vigor only gives 5 HP at 1st level, while IA gives +4 AC, which is effectively a 20% miss chance at that level.

Silverlich
2011-01-27, 03:34 PM
How can I get some Fhtagn-Dahs ice cream IRL? Does anybody actually make that?

Psyren
2011-01-27, 03:37 PM
Not to mention Vigor will only last a minute per manifestation while IA lasts an hour; unless you know exactly when you'll be aimed at, IA is better until you get some ML under your belt.

If you have the feats, Overchannel + Talented is a nice combo at this level too - even if you don't augment, the ML boost will act like a free extend on many of your powers this early on.


How can I get some Fhtagn-Dahs ice cream IRL? Does anybody actually make that?

I'm sure Glyphstone can help you :smallwink: