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View Full Version : Wu Jen + ? = Abjurant Champion (help me find a path)



Brock Samson
2011-01-27, 07:58 AM
Someone mentioned on another post that I could take my currently first level Wu Jen into Abjurant Champion. What would be the best way to get into it? What would I want to dip into for the extra BAB, and how much?

I'm human, this is an oriental campaign set in Rokugan.

And what would I want to take after finishing Abjurant Champion?

(DM is extremely hestitant to use Tome of Battle, doubt I'd get it across, which yes, is silly).

Antonok
2011-01-27, 08:09 AM
2 levels in Duskblade would be good, get a few more spells, Armored Mage (Light), and the feat you need as a bonus feat, plus a BaB boost.

Jack_Simth
2011-01-27, 08:10 AM
Wu Jen-10/Abjurant Champion-5/do you really think you'll get over 15th?

Abjurant Champion requires one martial weapon proficiency, Combat Casting, BAB+5, and 1st level Arcane Spells (including at least one Abjuration).

Wu Jen is a half BAB Arcane Caster, which has some Abjuration spells. So all you need is 10 levels, the Combat Casting feat, and the Martial Weapon Proficiency feat.

Psyren
2011-01-27, 09:03 AM
Use a Warblade dip, and then enter Jade Phoenix Mage before finishing off with AbjChamp. The synergy is fantastic:

1) Lots of eastern wuxia flavor, both from the name (Jade Phoenix) and the maneuvers.

2) Int synergy between Wu Jen and War Blade.

3) Elemental Mastery (Fire) and Firebird Stance stack, for massive CL boosts on fire spells.

4) Unique combos like Body Outside Body + Maneuvers, Transcend Mortality + Emerald Immolation, Giant Size + Arcane Wrath etc.

Dusk Eclipse
2011-01-27, 09:22 AM
Someone mentioned on another post that I could take my currently first level Wu Jen into Abjurant Champion. What would be the best way to get into it? What would I want to dip into for the extra BAB, and how much?

I'm human, this is an oriental campaign set in Rokugan.

And what would I want to take after finishing Abjurant Champion?

(DM is extremely hestitant to use Tome of Battle, doubt I'd get it across, which yes, is silly).


Use a Warblade dip, and then enter Jade Phoenix Mage before finishing off with AbjChamp. The synergy is fantastic:

1) Lots of eastern wuxia flavor, both from the name (Jade Phoenix) and the maneuvers.

2) Int synergy between Wu Jen and War Blade.

3) Elemental Mastery (Fire) and Firebird Stance stack, for massive CL boosts on fire spells.

4) Unique combos like Body Outside Body + Maneuvers, Transcend Mortality + Emerald Immolation, Giant Size + Arcane Wrath etc.

Seems someone failed his spot check :smalltongue:

OP

What is your current level progression?

My favourite gish build is Fighter 2/Arcane Class 4/Spell sword 1/Abjurant Champion 5/what ever 9 (the set up only looses 2 CL so it is quite good and you can substitute Fighter with any full bab class with all armour proficiencies; I choose fighter for the bonus feats)

Psyren
2011-01-27, 09:29 AM
Seems someone failed his spot check :smalltongue:

"Hesitant" isn't a ban, and showing him the flavor synergy might change his mind.

You can be this guy:
http://images.wikia.com/snk/images/d/d0/Yunfei-sstenka.png

http://fenixware.net/fab/images/chars/story/yunfei.jpg

Dusk Eclipse
2011-01-27, 09:47 AM
"Hesitant" isn't a ban, and showing him the flavor synergy might change his mind.

You can be this guy:
http://images.wikia.com/snk/images/d/d0/Yunfei-sstenka.png

http://fenixware.net/fab/images/chars/story/yunfei.jpg

Point taken.

But yeah you are right... hmmm I may have to steal that idea if my friend ever comes to run his "Dark Empires" campaign (which is Oriental flavoured)

Person_Man
2011-01-27, 10:32 AM
Are you using the Oriental Adventures Wu Jen or Comp Arcane Wu Jen?

I'm assuming you're using the later, because it's more recent and more powerful, but you said you're campaigning in Rokugan, so I thought it was worth asking.

Also, why would you want Abj Champion with Wu Jen? Wu Jen is a blaster class, and Abj Champion is a Gish. There's really no real synergy I can think of. How do you want to play this character? Because your answer should dictate what class or PrC you use in your build to get into Abj Champion.

Regardless, be sure to check out the raising caster level thread (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19872350/Raising_Caster_Level). Wu Jen are particularly good at it, especially at mid levels.

Psyren
2011-01-27, 01:33 PM
Wu Jen is a blaster class, and Abj Champion is a Gish. There's really no real synergy I can think of.

Wu Jen make great gishes imo; they get some excellent Gish spells in their exclusives, like Giant Size, Dancing Blade, Metal Skin and Body Outside Body. And a lot of their "scarf" and "needle" spells use attack rolls (not touch attacks) necessitating high BAB to be effective. Plus they have the usual gishy compliment, things like Blur and the Animal Buff line (Cat's Bull's etc.), See Invisible, Alter Self/Polymorph, Haste etc. Certainly they are much better at a gish role than a Warmage would be.

Thrice Dead Cat
2011-01-27, 02:53 PM
I'm a fan of Body Outside Body gishes, going something like Human Paragon 1/Wu Jen 1/Human Paragon +2/Wu Jen +2/Ruathar 3/Abjurant Champion 5/Eldritch Knight X, where X is enough to qualify for shenanigans/Archmage 1/EK Moar/Archmage +1.

Both Archmage levels grab the SLAs. The first for Giant Size, the second for Transcend Mortality. Overall, you end up with 16 BAB CL 18 and just drop Body Outside Body for giant smacking minions.

Magic Myrmidon
2011-01-27, 03:30 PM
With the abj. Champ capstone, where you use your BAB for your caster level, and you took one level of Wu Jen, then full BAB classes for everything else, does that mean youj can cast as a 19th level wu jen, with 9th level spells and all?

If so, I'd just do something like that.

Thrice Dead Cat
2011-01-27, 03:36 PM
With the abj. Champ capstone, where you use your BAB for your caster level, and you took one level of Wu Jen, then full BAB classes for everything else, does that mean youj can cast as a 19th level wu jen, with 9th level spells and all?

If so, I'd just do something like that.

Caster level does not mean more spells. A Beguiler 1/Wizard 4 with Practiced Spellcaster (Beguiler) has a caster level of 5 for all of his durations, caster level checks and the like. However, he still only has spells as a first level Beguiler.

Magic Myrmidon
2011-01-27, 03:49 PM
Ah. Yes, that's what I was afraid of. Ah well. That would pretty much make the class OP as all get-out.

Shade Kerrin
2011-01-27, 04:40 PM
Wu-Jen 6/Ruathar(RoTW) 3/Abjurant Champ 5

Ruathar gives you no actual loss, while at the same time saving you a feat, and giving you the bab to enter Abj Champ a level early. It is the number 1 choice for full caster Gishes(Hate that word, but its the one used)

true_shinken
2011-01-27, 08:55 PM
Wu-Jen 6/Ruathar(RoTW) 3/Abjurant Champ 5

Ruathar gives you no actual loss, while at the same time saving you a feat, and giving you the bab to enter Abj Champ a level early. It is the number 1 choice for full caster Gishes(Hate that word, but its the one used)

Why do you hate that word? :smallconfused:

Psyren
2011-01-27, 09:23 PM
I'm not fond of it either. It sounds like what you'd hear if you dropped some china. But there's no other term I can think of that encompasses every possible melee-magic hybrid quite as succinctly.

Brock Samson
2011-01-28, 04:18 PM
Thanks for the awesome ideas so far guys. I'm not married to Abjurant Champion, and the more ideas I get the more likely I am to be able to get at least ONE of them past the DM. I know I'm being pretty darn anticipatory since I think the likelihood of this campaign going past like level 6 isn't that great, but it could happen. And this is 3.5, so like with wizards like with character creating, planning is everything.

And I created my character with the OA Wu Jen, I wasn't even thinking about the updated version, hopefully that's not hard to pass by the DM.

Man I want to play a Jade Phoenix Mage.