Dragonforce Bards. Elder Evils. Oh my.

[term1nally s1ck]

The original idea is here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=140908).

I'm ressurecting it and I intend to run it. I know little about the source involved, though, so I'm going to make sure it's as enticing as possible for the players, by letting you make a few decisions.

The first question is what level you want to start at. You'd all be boringly similar at early levels, which might be a turn-off for many players.

The second question is how rigid you want the character builds to be. There's a basic skeleton in the linked thread, should we go with that, or just limit people to roles within the party and let them go from there (with a limit on the classes allowed, obviously.), or just say 'you must take bard and PrC X, do whatever else you want.'

Lastly, what alignment. Are these an evil band, only 'saving' the world so that they can lord it over the remainder with the power of rock, are they neutral and only looking for a challenge to their skills, or are they Good and...well, do I have to explain that one?

[Volos]

Epic.

Epic with a side helping of yeeeeesssss.

I would say they were good, otherwise they would have a hard time wanting to save the world other than to keep from becoming dead all of a sudden.

I would suggest to start at level 5 or higher, but allow ACFs. It will help the party span out and do something interesting with their varried tallents. I wouldn't mind the builds being rigid, it could be more challenging that way. Also I think this belongs in Finding Players (Recruitment) (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=51)?

[term1nally s1ck]

Justfication is pretty easy. Nobody, no matter what alignment, wants their world to be blow'd up.

However, how they go about stopping it is COMPLETELY different.

EDIT: I'm not recruiting players yet. This is where the original idea came from, and I'm looking for help in refining the idea, and when it's vaguely near ready I'll look for players.

[Mikeavelli]

I remember that thread! I've wanted to run a musical campaign for some time now (make all players have a level of bard and PrC out from there) - though I'd have them make their own characters and band name and introduce other bands as NPC's, either helping them or hindering them.

I still say Deathklok should be the antagonists seeking to bring about the Metalocalypse. Or at the very least bringing it about accidentally.

My own plans involve running the game in person (I've tried starting up online games before, but really lack the consistency of onlineness to run them, sorry to anyone who's been disappointed by one of those) - and featuring that bands music as "battle music" for the inevitable confrontation.

Notable Encounters;

- Fighting Flogging Molly (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TSwaVvF7rdU) in a barroom brawl.

- The Metal-LOTR fun that can be had to the tune of Nightfall in middle earth (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nightfall_in_Middle-Earth)

- Party gets sucked inside magic crystals and has to fight energy beings led by Daft Punk.

- At least one final battle with an Abomination needs to be backed up by an entire orchestra, it's been long enough that people have stopped being sick of One Winged Angel (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t7wJ8pE2qKU) being overused. Note that homebrewing Azathoth and his horrid pipers would also be appropriate here.

[Czin]

The original idea is here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=140908).

I'm ressurecting it and I intend to run it. I know little about the source involved, though, so I'm going to make sure it's as enticing as possible for the players, by letting you make a few decisions.

The first question is what level you want to start at. You'd all be boringly similar at early levels, which might be a turn-off for many players.

The second question is how rigid you want the character builds to be. There's a basic skeleton in the linked thread, should we go with that, or just limit people to roles within the party and let them go from there (with a limit on the classes allowed, obviously.), or just say 'you must take bard and PrC X, do whatever else you want.'

Lastly, what alignment. Are these an evil band, only 'saving' the world so that they can lord it over the remainder with the power of rock, are they neutral and only looking for a challenge to their skills, or are they Good and...well, do I have to explain that one?

I'd recomend that you start fighting Zargon's encounters first, he's the weakest (though certainly the most annoyingly persistent, the guy is notoriously difficult to put down) of the bunch. The others should follow the general ECL of their encounters.

So essentially it should go (in order of who gets fought from first to last, though their minions will probably be fought more or less simultaneously, Zargon, Father Llymic, Hulks of Zoretha, Worm that Walks, Sertrous, the Leviathan, Atropus and Ragnorra should be run simultaneously (too hard to decide who's the bigger bad out of the two), and Pandorym.

I have a feeling that Atropus's and Ragnorra's signs are going to have a lot of confliction issues though, so you may want to try and resolve that before getting this shindig together.

[term1nally s1ck]

The actual elder evils I can sort out. I could do with answers to the questions in the OP to begin with though, before I start planning things out. I'll take an average of the suggested levels, and start at that level, and fitting the rest together should follow from there.

[Demons_eye]

The original idea is here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=140908).

I'm ressurecting it and I intend to run it. I know little about the source involved, though, so I'm going to make sure it's as enticing as possible for the players, by letting you make a few decisions.

The first question is what level you want to start at. You'd all be boringly similar at early levels, which might be a turn-off for many players.

The second question is how rigid you want the character builds to be. There's a basic skeleton in the linked thread, should we go with that, or just limit people to roles within the party and let them go from there (with a limit on the classes allowed, obviously.), or just say 'you must take bard and PrC X, do whatever else you want.'

Lastly, what alignment. Are these an evil band, only 'saving' the world so that they can lord it over the remainder with the power of rock, are they neutral and only looking for a challenge to their skills, or are they Good and...well, do I have to explain that one?

Two things: Awesome revival, waiting for the game already. Also the theme is Somthing, Something, Something oh my. I would use Awesome, Awesome, Awesome oh my but thats redundant.

I don't remember but the elder evils are like insane to fight correct? I would start around level 8. High enough people are diffrent but low enough to get that sense of 'Wow we came far guys'

I would make it gestalt with ACF so players could tweak their character but stay true to the idea.

Last I don't think alignment matters so long as the band would be their to rock out. They are there to rock so hard they shake the foundations of reality so I don't think what color your lightsaber is matters.

[Volos]

Gestalt probably would help with the diversity as well as the not getting smashed into the ground so hard you character sheet catches on fire.

[Czin]

When I read through the old thread, I saw someone whose username matched my old DM's first name...Volkov...He was here? On this very board? I'm starting to miss him sorely all over again...one car accident, and he's gone forever... :smallfrown:

[term1nally s1ck]

A half decent level of optimisation makes Bard, and especially PrC'd bards, actually very powerful. I'm actually leaning towards non-gestalt, partly because gestalt is just so common these days, and partly because I want this to feel like the music is the biggest part of the class.

Also, yes, every fight will be set to and hopefully sync with an appropriate background song, and I'll give out bonuses if the party can fight appropriately to either the song in use, or if they start their own song and fight in that style instead.

I'll make one decision at the start though...Leadership is BANNED. Flat banned. 4 Bards would make even the level 1 mooks terrifying.

Hiring of higher level NPCs than you can normally hire, using a homebrewed price listing I'll post later..

Question 4: Party Size? 6 to match Dragonforce? 4 as in the original idea?

[Czin]

A half decent level of optimisation makes Bard, and especially PrC'd bards, actually very powerful. I'm actually leaning towards non-gestalt, partly because gestalt is just so common these days, and partly because I want this to feel like the music is the biggest part of the class.

Also, yes, every fight will be set to and hopefully sync with an appropriate background song, and I'll give out bonuses if the party can fight appropriately to either the song in use, or if they start their own song and fight in that style instead.

I'll make one decision at the start though...Leadership is BANNED. Flat banned. 4 Bards would make even the level 1 mooks terrifying.

Hiring of higher level NPCs than you can normally hire, using a homebrewed price listing I'll post later..

Question 4: Party Size? 6 to match Dragonforce? 4 as in the original idea?
I'd go with Six, you'll need it to batter down Zargon and his ridiculous DR and Regeneration (not to mention his ability to come back from the dead again and again like a bad slasher movie villain.)

[Hammerhead]

If the players are all into playing Bards:
Level 8 would give most of them a chance to enter their respective PrCs and maybe start defining themselves through spell selection. Earlier than that would probably have too much similarity, unless they're heavily varianted/ACFed.

Another option would be playing it in gestalt, as Volos said.
That way they'd be able to distinguish themselves from level 1.

Otherwise:
I wouldn't limit the players (beyond the normal limitations you'd put into one of your games) except maybe saying they should have perform ranks. Even then, you might even let them build whatever they want, then give them ranks to put in perform. I wouldn't hold them to the other thread's builds; I probably wouldn't even recommend them; some of them don't even make sense (the Abjurant Champion/Seeker would just be weird).

[Blackfang108]

I'd go with Six, you'll need it to batter down Zargon and his ridiculous DR and Regeneration (not to mention his ability to come back from the dead again and again like a bad slasher movie villain.)

Gotta be 6. One with Perform(Singing), one with Perform(Percussion), three with Perform(Lute), and one with perform ... hmm...

How do you translate the Keyboard to the mideval setting? Harpsichord?

[Czin]

Gotta be 6. One with Perform(Singing), one with Perform(Percussion), three with Perform(Lute), and one with perform ... hmm...

How do you translate the Keyboard to the mideval setting? Harpsichord?

Allow for an anachronism stew/schizo tech and handwave it as the rule of cool.

[Elfin]

Oh, I remember that thread! Really, the stuff is pure awesome.

I think it really must end with a battle of the bands - Dragonforce against a band made up of Pandorym, Zargon, and all the rest.

[Volos]

What if someone were to take the feat Versitile Performer? He could sing while he rocks out or rock out while he dances... or something like that. It would be something for the lead guy to take I think.

[term1nally s1ck]

I'd think that would work best as a Seeker of the Song or a Warweaver. THey both learn to maintain 2 bardic musics at the same time.

The battle of the bands will happen, but you won't fight ALL the elder evils at once. Maybe (and not saying which) a few will be teaming up. Most will have enough support to act as a band of their own.

[Blackfang108]

Allow for an anachronism stew/schizo tech and handwave it as the rule of cool.

Hey, the Harpsichord might actually work better. No need to figure out a way to power it.

[Elfin]

Plot-wise, I like an idea brought up in the original thread - Dragonforce on tour. I think that would make for a nice structure: the band, on their first world tour, travels from region to region and stops the Elder Evil threatening each. I do sort of like the idea of then confronting an all-Elder Evils band as the thrilling finale...but that's your call.

[CN the Logos]

This should probably be in "Finding Players."

That said, assuming this ends up gestalt and stays around Tier 3ish, I want to run a bard//this warlock rewrite (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=8163.0).

Assuming that's allowed, I'd like to run the fey warlock, and have him either be a vocalist or play the violin, since he can't touch an electric guitar without burning his own hands off. His fey eldritch blast will let him deal death from afar against aberrations, constructs, and undead (who deny the power of rock, and his presence ensures that the party will never need to worry about out of combat healing for HP damage ever again. The bard side would contain most of the PrCing, probably Seeker of the Song and Abjurant Champion, for spellcasting awesomeness. All in all, a solid yet entertaining build.

Of course, I'm getting ahead of myself, I suppose. ...I don't think it's been mentioned in this thread, but is everyone still a kobold?

[Czin]

Plot-wise, I like an idea brought up in the original thread - Dragonforce on tour. I think that would make for a nice structure: the band, on their first world tour, travels from region to region and stops the Elder Evil threatening each. I do sort of like the idea of then confronting an all-Elder Evils band as the thrilling finale...but that's your call.

The plucky band of Kobolds would probably win easily, not a single one of the elder evils has any points in any kind of perform skills, and most of them don't even have hands. :smalltongue:

[term1nally s1ck]

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=55828

Thoughts?

[Czin]

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=55828

Thoughts?
Rather silly, but it fits greatly into the mood of the campaign.


Since I didn't see anything (other than the thread title) dealing with negative and positive energy, how are you going to resolve the issue of Ragnorra's and Atropus's signs having conflicting effects?

Like Ragnorra's sign turning all undead not protected by thick walls, granting fast healing to living creatures, improving positive energy spells and impeding negative energy spells while atropus's sign grants undead turn resistance and fast healing, impedes positive energy use and bolsters negative energy use and by the overwhelming stage, every person that dies under Ragnorra's sign gets revived as a hideous lovecraftian abomination while under Atropus's sign they get raised as zombies (and everything that died previous gets raised as zombies, skeletons, or reanimated fossils depending on the condition of their corpse.)

[term1nally s1ck]

I think that those two will not be able to work together, but will have to work on opposite sides of the world simultaneously. It'll be interesting, with half of the globe being destroyed by positive energy and half being destroyed by negative energy.

I'll make some interesting plot points out of the conflict between the two, don't worry about that.

[Hazzardevil]

Thos sounds interesting. I could fit into the group as a paladin of freedom and metal rock.
Hopefully I would be alllowed to take initiate of millil.

[Czin]

I think that those two will not be able to work together, but will have to work on opposite sides of the world simultaneously. It'll be interesting, with half of the globe being destroyed by positive energy and half being destroyed by negative energy.

I'll make some interesting plot points out of the conflict between the two, don't worry about that.

It would be awesome to watch Ragnorra's Deadspace style necromorphs (that's the image I get of the creatures that Ragnorra raises from the dead at least), cultists, other abberations and magical beasts fighting Atropus's bog standard Zombies, Skeletons, Reanimated Fossils, other undead servants, the followers of Caira Xasten, and Gorguth's army of undead and Demons.

But the Dragonforce band needs to find some way to bring at atmosphere to Atropus so they can make that old ossified body of Atropus's Aspect crumble and shatter like a wine glass at an Opera. More than anyone else, Atropus should be killed with the power of rock; someone who has been floating through the soundless void of space for all eternity should only be defeated by the one thing (other than a positive attitude) he's been deprived of for all this time, music.

[term1nally s1ck]

I'll be making a homebrew battle of the bands pre-combat thing, where winning the rock-off would cause buffs/debuffs of various sorts. You can't win the entire combat by rocking out, but you can make it a LOT easier.

[Tyndmyr]

The original idea is here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=140908).

I'm ressurecting it and I intend to run it. I know little about the source involved, though, so I'm going to make sure it's as enticing as possible for the players, by letting you make a few decisions.

And I want to play in it. Badly.


The first question is what level you want to start at. You'd all be boringly similar at early levels, which might be a turn-off for many players.

16-18. High enough to actually take action against the weaker of the elder evils, but not so high that lolepic things are being tossed around. Yet. They will be, mind you, but a bit of room to grow is great.


The second question is how rigid you want the character builds to be. There's a basic skeleton in the linked thread, should we go with that, or just limit people to roles within the party and let them go from there (with a limit on the classes allowed, obviously.), or just say 'you must take bard and PrC X, do whatever else you want.'

I think the given requirements are fine. So long as they're playing up a role in the party, I think it'd be great. Most people naturally try to differentiate themselves a little anyhow, so I wouldn't worry much about replication.


Lastly, what alignment. Are these an evil band, only 'saving' the world so that they can lord it over the remainder with the power of rock, are they neutral and only looking for a challenge to their skills, or are they Good and...well, do I have to explain that one?

Any would work. Even a mixture could work. There is no wrong way to epically save the world with the power of rock.

[CN the Logos]

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=55828

Thoughts?

Trying much too hard, I think. Also the wrong musical genre.



The first question is what level you want to start at. You'd all be boringly similar at early levels, which might be a turn-off for many players.

16-18. High enough to actually take action against the weaker of the elder evils, but not so high that lolepic things are being tossed around. Yet. They will be, mind you, but a bit of room to grow is great.

I favor starting at level six to eight myself. Assuming gestalt, that should be plenty of differentiation between PCs. The signs are supposed to happen over the course of a campaign, with plenty of build up to the apocalyptic ending, while some of the elder evils are totally killable at 16th level. Level seven is already beyond the reach of ordinary mortals, and makes a good starting point for the chosen ones who've been practicing for years to save the world to start at. The elder evils showing up should be the grand finale, not a mundane boss fight.

[term1nally s1ck]

I'm not going with gestalt. Sorry, but doesn't fit what I want to see in this campaign.

[CN the Logos]

I'm not going with gestalt. Sorry, but doesn't fit what I want to see in this campaign.

Oh well. Sorry to hear it. Withdrawing interest.

[Callos_DeTerran]

I'll be perfectly honest, I read this thread and jumped to the idea of trying to do it myself. XD Possibly in competition with your own so the two groups come together in an epic rock-off once the Elder Evils are vanquished. But I'm not nearly metal enough to pull this off, so kudos to you!

[term1nally s1ck]

I'm re-considering on the gestalt thing, and I decided I can run it well enough both ways, I can get the focus on the music strong enough anyway.

So, here's another thing for you guys to vote on:

Gestalt/Non-gestalt.

[Danin]

I absolutely love the idea and have considered it myself many times. The only thing I'm not sold on is the kobold part, but that's just because I have a vendetta against the little guys (If I ever see another pit trap again it'll be too soon).

I would throw my vote in for level 8 gestalt or 10 regular. If gestalt make levels in a class with perform mandatory for one side or the other at all times (to keep the focus on the music).

I've never been a fan of gestalt myself, but I think it might be needed to capture the feeling of absolute awesome.