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Elric VIII
2011-01-30, 12:56 PM
The end of yesterday's session marked the level increase that allowed me to once again summon my dead special mount. I would like to avoid this happening again, so I want to try to make it more powerful.

I am currently a Bone Knight using a Skeletal Steed.


Does my undead mount gain an Int score because it advances in a similar fashion to the Paladin's Mount?

Does it gain feats for the HD increses, or just BAB/saves?

Can a Paladin's Special Mount gain class levels because it has an Int score?

Is there a way to deter the attacking of my mount, such as a feat that grants me an AoO against something that attacks it instead of me?
I would also greatly appreciate any advice on equipment and strategy to use with my mount. I do not want to be a mounted charger or completely focused on mounted combat, however I do not want my class feature to be a liability.

Thank you.

Electrohydra
2011-01-30, 01:04 PM
This (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#mountedCombat) is the most basic thing, straight from PH. It's much easier to boost your ride check than your mount's AC. Downside is it only works once per round and not for saves. Also it's prerequisite for most other mounted feats, so if you ever feel like taking them, you can.

Elric VIII
2011-01-30, 01:06 PM
This (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#mountedCombat) is the most basic thing, straight from PH. It's much easier to boost your ride check than your mount's AC. Downside is it only works once per round and not for saves. Also it's prerequisite for most other mounted feats, so if you ever feel like taking them, you can.

I have Battle Bridle from MIC (+5 to ride and treated as having Mounted Comabt), it's a good suggestion though. It's just that I'm basically tanking and therefore have to fight multiple enemies.

EDIT: What body slots do mounts have, I know that they have magical horseshoes instead of boots/gloves, and I assume that they have no ring slot, but the other body slots seem like they would work.

Coidzor
2011-01-30, 01:25 PM
Battle Bridle or Riding Boots (Magic of Faerun, updated in Magic Item Compendium) can supply the benefits of the basic mounted combat feats without having to invest your actual feats towards it. And heck, Valorous allows one to replicate a lance in another weapon, mounted or no.

A Lance of Faerun (Magic of Faerun) along with those other two items would allow you to completely replicate the mounted combat feat tree.

Well, horseshoes/feet slots, they have limbs so probably some arm deals adapted for them, neck and shoulders of course as well as waist though due to their shape going to be different. I believe I saw something about magical saddle blankets occupying the torso or shoulder slot for a horse once. And they can wear things on their heads.

Don't really see much for their faces but that probably could be arranged. And might be able to swing a ring slot on the base of the tail, maybe.

I believe Living Greyhawk addressed this at the RAW level... and I think the Rules of the Game articles address it as well.

1. Your mount's int score issue is, I believe, addressed in the text of the Bone Knight class.

2. If it has intelligence, then yes, but since I can't recall whether it has "virtual intelligence" or is actually intelligent, I couldn't say.

3. I believe there's something about that in regards to Leadership and Mounts in the DMG, actually. So... I believe so, though it'd require taking the mount on as a cohort as well.

4. Ride Skill, maybe a Starmantle Cloak if those don't destroy undead.

Elric VIII
2011-01-30, 01:39 PM
Battle Bridle or Riding Boots (Magic of Faerun, updated in Magic Item Compendium) can supply the benefits of the basic mounted combat feats without having to invest your actual feats towards it. And heck, Valorous allows one to replicate a lance in another weapon, mounted or no.

A Lance of Faerun (Magic of Faerun) along with those other two items would allow you to completely replicate the mounted combat feat tree.

This is cool, gold/magic items are a lot easier to get than feats. I think I ninja-edited that I don't actually have mounted combat, per se, but have a Battle Bridle. I'll definately look into the other items.


Well, horseshoes/feet slots, they have limbs so probably some arm deals adapted for them, neck and shoulders of course as well as waist though due to their shape going to be different. I believe I saw something about magical saddle blankets occupying the torso or shoulder slot for a horse once. And they can wear things on their heads.

Don't really see much for their faces but that probably could be arranged. And might be able to swing a ring slot on the base of the tail, maybe.

Well, it's less of an issue of where to fit the items as what slots are legal. I wanted to make my horse an Incarnate with the Undead Meldshaper feat.



1. Your mount's int score issue is, I believe, addressed in the text of the Bone Knight class.

It says that it is a Warhorse with the skeleton template, but that it has the same abilities as a Paladin's mount. However, the Karrnathi undead that I can create are intelligent, so that's what gave me confusion.


3. I believe there's something about that in regards to Leadership and Mounts in the DMG, actually. So... I believe so, though it'd require taking the mount on as a cohort as well.

Just checked this, you're right, thanks. Do the mount's HD count toward the max level he can get relative to mine?

Coidzor
2011-01-30, 01:58 PM
This is cool, gold/magic items are a lot easier to get than feats. I think I ninja-edited that I don't actually have mounted combat, per se, but have a Battle Bridle. I'll definately look into the other items.

It is always interesting to see ways to circumvent feat taxes with money. With the Lance of Faerun, it's pricey enough to delay until later levels(IIRC, 12-13ish) unlike the other ones which are fairly low level items.


Well, it's less of an issue of where to fit the items as what slots are legal. I wanted to make my horse an Incarnate with the Undead Meldshaper feat.

In that case, probably more slots are available than standard due to the nature of meldshaping. Mounts (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20050125a). Animals Part 4 (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20070206a) ("Animal Companions and Magic Items")

Edit: Ah, here. In Wild Life. (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/re/20031125a)

In here I found this quote (http://www.enworld.org/forum/d-d-legacy-discussion/224107-animal-companions-wearing-magic-items.html)
Skip Williams had this to say in the Rules of the Game:

Animal Item Slots
Although it's easy to imagine an animal benefiting from magic equipment beyond a simple saddle and a suit of barding, fitting a mount's physiology to the list of item slots available to characters is not an easy task. Try the following variant list of item slots for quadruped animals (and other monsters when appropriate).

One skull cap or helm
One pair of lenses or goggles
One collar
One saddle blanket or vest
One saddle or jacket
One belt or strap worn in front of or over the haunches
One pectoral or harness worn over the chest or shoulders
One pair foreleg bracers
One pair of foreleg shoes or mitts -- hoofed creatures wear shoes and creatures with paws wear mitts
Two rings -- creatures with toes wear rings on the toes and creatures with hooves wear "rings" just above fore hooves
One pair of hind leg shoes or mitts -- hoofed creatures wear shoes and creatures with paws wear mitts

And that Magic Item Compendium had some thoughts on the matter as well as possibly the DMG, but didn't find any page references.



It says that it is a Warhorse with the skeleton template, but that it has the same abilities as a Paladin's mount. However, the Karrnathi undead that I can create are intelligent, so that's what gave me confusion.

Well, Karrnathi undead are a specific type of undead like shadows and wraiths and such rather than templated like regular skeletons, as far as I've understood it, so the Karrnathi undead bit only applies to those two types rather than the mount. Was sure that it had more to say on the matter, but, hey, if it has an Int Score, it has an Int Score.


Just checked this, you're right, thanks. Do the mount's HD count toward the max level he can get relative to mine?

Slightly sticky, but I believe bonus HD count as Racial HD for determining ECL, so yes. I haven't really done a comparison to see what the power discrepancy would be myself though.

Elric VIII
2011-01-30, 02:19 PM
It is always interesting to see ways to circumvent feat taxes with money. With the Lance of Faerun, it's pricey enough to delay until later levels(IIRC, 12-13ish) unlike the other ones which are fairly low level items.
Well, I just reached level 13 and we have a pile of loot to sell. I think that's a sign.

Thanks for the links, those help.


Slightly sticky, but I believe bonus HD count as Racial HD for determining ECL, so yes. I haven't really done a comparison to see what the power discrepancy would be myself though.

So, there was a section that specifically mentioned a Paladin's mount and leadership. It says that this adds +2 to the mount's ECL. So, for a standard Heavy Warhorse (4 RHD) its ECL would actually be higher than the Paladin half the time, with regards to Leadership. Sticky indeed.

Coidzor
2011-01-30, 02:30 PM
Well, I just reached level 13 and we have a pile of loot to sell. I think that's a sign.

Thanks for the links, those help. Well that's good, I was worried I was getting a bit text-heavy.


So, there was a section that specifically mentioned a Paladin's mount and leadership. It says that this adds +2 to the mount's ECL. So, for a standard Heavy Warhorse (4 RHD) its ECL would actually be higher than the Paladin half the time, with regards to Leadership. Sticky indeed.

So I'd see about maybe getting some sort of cost in order to convert some of those bonus HD into class levels at a gradual rate, maybe something alone the lines of LA buyoff's rates... That's about all I can really think of to make it a bit better.

Elric VIII
2011-01-30, 02:35 PM
So I'd see about maybe getting some sort of cost in order to convert some of those bonus HD into class levels at a gradual rate, maybe something alone the lines of LA buyoff's rates... That's about all I can really think of to make it a bit better.

That seems reasonable. Thank you, I will consult my DM about this.