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Jsuelieta
2011-01-31, 11:55 PM
First question anyone's gonna ask is what I mean by a 'leashed druid', in this case it's my druid (which I've talked about a couple times now, if anyone remembers) that's been tied down by the DM for an encounter. Here's the situation: We've got a settlement that we're trying to develop into a city that's fallen under attack by goblins. We don't know how many goblins, but we've been given the indication that it's going to be Very Hard (tm) (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/NintendoHard) and to add insult to injury, we've been told we're not allowed to have a bunch of combat spells prepared because "We weren't expecting it" and we're working on construction. So I'm stuck with the following for spells:

0-Level: Mending x3, Cure Minor Wounds x3
1st level: Cure Light Wounds x6
2nd level: Wood Shape x5
3rd level: Stone Shape x3
4th level: Stone Shape x2
Feats: Endurance, Die Hard, Natural Spell, Eschew Materials

I've also got a +3 Wild Dragonhide Breastplate on, so if needed I can get in and melee with the best of them. I'm aware of the whole spontaneous casting of Summon Nature's Ally, but I'm not sure what I should summon or in what order. Any help would be appreciated because this DM has already TPK'd us twice but pulled a rewind so it never happened.

Mando Knight
2011-02-01, 12:39 AM
I: Wolves. Trip attacks and more HD than the other choices should make this a no-brainer.
II: Hippogriff or an Elemental. I'd prefer Hippogriffs. Possibly Crocodiles, if you've got an armor group for them to travel with.
III: Thoqqua, Dire Wolf, Giant Eagles, Lion... Lions can full-attack on a charge, Dire Wolves can trip, Thoqquas are fire-worms that burn things by touching them, Giant Eagles can skirmish.
IV: Giant Crocodiles, Deinonychus, Tigers, Dire Wolverines, Unicorns...

If you need healing and have a 4th-level slot, summon a Unicorn. If you need a charger, pick a flying creature or a big cat. If you need a tank or better full-attack DPR, use a crocodile, a bear, a big cat, or a wolf.

In general, I'd start with a big cat or a Dire Wolf, then summon the rest as needed. Flying units with Flyby Attack can skirmish melee units quite effectively. (Yes, they'll provoke opportunity attacks. However, they will take one melee attack and be immune to enemy chargers.)


Also, can you swap out that Eschew Materials? It's kinda worthless for a divine caster, since they rarely if ever have material components worth less than 1 gp, and most spells that are shared between Arcane and Divine that have a Material Component only have it for the Arcane version.

Toliudar
2011-02-01, 01:09 AM
If you're facing masses of goblins, give them credible targets that aren't you. Throw masses of meat at them. Each Summon Nature's Ally IV will give you one giant crocodile, which might be a great distraction that works through a goblin every round or two, or 2-5 hippogriffs, which can potentially take out 2-4 goblins per round. The swarm of bats (Sandstorm lists it as a SNA3 allowable summon) can be very difficult for low-level creatures to deal with.

It's hard to generalize, but I've had good luck in similar situations by getting out of the easy view of goblin archers, starting the casting process as soon as the goblins are committed to the fight (another PC might be your eyes in this), and keeps casting until forced into melee. Every round that the goblins are moving towards you while your summons are tearing them apart, or the goblins are fighting your summons while the rest of the PC's take some out with ranged attacks, is a win for you.

Jsuelieta
2011-02-01, 01:47 AM
I: Also, can you swap out that Eschew Materials? It's kinda worthless for a divine caster, since they rarely if ever have material components worth less than 1 gp, and most spells that are shared between Arcane and Divine that have a Material Component only have it for the Arcane version.

I sure can't, and I wouldn't if I could. This DM has a bad habit of inconveniencing us at every given opportunity, and being separated from one's spell component pouch is a recipe for losing the ability to cast a spell with a material component. Besides, I'm planning waaaaaaay out into epic levels to the Ignore Material Components feat. This guy hasn't given a single bit of treasure through the whole campaign, so I'm not seeing having the 250g to throw around for the components to stoneskin or true seeing. That and I couldn't think of a better feat to take at the time, it's kind of a standby feat for me.

Yet somehow he plans on actually taking this campaign into epic levels. Go ahead and describe this DM in a few words, I don't mind.

Coidzor
2011-02-01, 02:28 AM
1. That's just ridiculous and he needs to be called on that.

2. Welp, looks like it's time to learn how to use your summons effectively.

3. Strongly consider other avenues to get your fix. :smallyuk:

Eldariel
2011-02-01, 02:35 AM
When dealing with hordes, the option of "summon 1d3" or "summon 1d4+1 lower level options" tends to take over. Lower level summons tend to be more than sufficient against mooks and getting a whole horde of them tends to be more convenient than one extremely heavy hitter.

Yellow Musk Creeper [Fiend Folio] from SNAIV is an option for durability. It has lots of HP, Regeneration and handy AoE capabilities. Oh, and 6 Vine-attacks at 15' reach. Musk Puff itself probably isn't all that useful since it's only single target each round but just beating things up it should perform admirably when individual Goblins don't actually have HP. And the Puff can be v. useful against some special casters and such in the Goblins' ranks.

Greenish
2011-02-01, 09:13 AM
This guy hasn't given a single bit of treasure through the whole campaign, so I'm not seeing having the 250g to throw around for the components to stoneskin or true seeing.The feat doesn't change that.

Druids have very few spells that require material components at all, and even the ones that do can be swapped for SNA.

[Disclaimer]: I'm not trying to force you to change your feats, only pointing out where your explanations do not hold water.

Person_Man
2011-02-01, 10:03 AM
I'm AFB right now, but I'm sure that somewhere in the splat books there must be something your can Summon or Wildshape into something with the Trample ability. It's really excellent against masses of weak enemies, especially on the first round if you win Initiative. (Flat Footed enemies can't make AoO without Combat Reflexes). You can also look for things with breath weapons.

I would also talk to your DM at length about the layout. If you're doing construction, that means there are a lot of options for building barricades, channeling enemies into narrow passages, using tar to entangle and nails as caltrops, setting fires, etc. Look for ways to be creative beyond the RAW combat rules.

Greenish
2011-02-01, 10:29 AM
I'm AFB right now, but I'm sure that somewhere in the splat books there must be something your can Summon or Wildshape into something with the Trample ability.Miniatures Handbook has Cave Triceratops and Cave Ankylosaurus (see pic), both large tramplers.


http://www.mrugala.net/Nature/Animaux/Dinosaures/Ankylosaurus.jpg

Mark Hall
2011-02-01, 11:43 AM
Yet somehow he plans on actually taking this campaign into epic levels. Go ahead and describe this DM in a few words, I don't mind.

Awesome. I love games where you're fighting for resources.

Given your spells, I'd suggest the Unicorns, as many have said... the Magic Circle Against Evil and healing are going to be nice, though it will probably be of limited combat utility if it's healing (eight rounds... not a huge amount of time).

For straight up combat, you might look at the minor xorn... large number of attacks and damage reduction to let it survive quite a while against low-levels. As others have said, getting some packs of wolves in there is also a good idea... they're tough for their level, and it may be better to use SNA3 to get 2-5 of them than to pick up 1 of something else.

subject42
2011-02-01, 01:00 PM
Another thing you can do is blow a use of stone shape or two to create rough terrain. If you're on a flat stone surface (foundation or bedrock), an inch of stone shaped into "rubble" will cover a 15' x 15' square at levels 7-8.

It's not great coverage, but it is an instantaneous, non-dispellable effect.

Mando Knight
2011-02-01, 01:07 PM
and being separated from one's spell component pouch is a recipe for losing the ability to cast a spell with a material component.
There are two kinds of Divine spells, to my knowledge (which may be flawed, but follows a fairly obvious pattern).
Ones without material components
Ones with material components too expensive to ignore with Eschew Materials.

You're not going to epic levels if he keeps this up. If you want Ignore Material Components, you've got another feat at level 18. I would recommend dropping it and another feat (or grabbing a flaw instead... Shaky is good for Druids, since they rarely ever have to make ranged attack rolls, or you could go for Feeble or Unreactive, since Initiative doesn't really matter after the first round and you can use Wildshape to counter most problems with regard to skill/ability checks) to get Spell Focus: Conjuration and Augment Summoning. (Don't drop Natural Spell, though. That's just silly.)

Greenish
2011-02-01, 01:23 PM
There are two kinds of Divine spells, to my knowledge (which may be flawed, but follows a fairly obvious pattern).
Ones without material components
Ones with material components too expensive to ignore with Eschew Materials.With a few exceptions*, yeah.

*From SRD:http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/animalMessenger.htm
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/atonement.htm
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/freedomofMovement.htm
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/jump.htm
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/longstrider.htm
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/moveEarth.htm
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/spiderClimb.htm

Ionizer
2011-02-01, 02:20 PM
Add Fire Seeds (and maybe a few more, but really, it doesn't matter) to that list.

Also note that, even though Holly and Mistletoe have no listed cost, Eschew Materials does not allow you to ignore Divine Focuses (Foci?).

Greenish
2011-02-01, 04:15 PM
Add Fire Seeds (and maybe a few more, but really, it doesn't matter) to that list.I skipped the spells where the material component is also the target of the spell (good job with knowing your own rules, designers), because Eschew Materials doesn't work for them (since if you lack the material component, you'll have nothing to cast the spell on).

subject42
2011-02-01, 05:00 PM
(since if you lack the material component, you'll have nothing to cast the spell on).

Is that by RAW, or just sanity?

Coidzor
2011-02-01, 05:08 PM
Is that by RAW, or just sanity?

Well, you can't cast the spell without a valid target. So I imagine it is RAW.