Refreshing spells and recent casting limit

[ffone]

From the SRD info on refreshing daily spells (arcane: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/arcaneSpells.htm, divine: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/divineSpells.htm) I get the impression that an arcane caster can refresh all their spells by resting for 8 hours, and then doing a 15 min to 1 hour prep period (depending on wiz/sorc/bard/etc.) Does this mean that a bard could, for example, fight and cast spells in the morning, rest from noon to 8:15 pm, and then fight with refreshed spells per day that night?

I have some vague memory about text saying "...mind is only considered fresh for the first preparation each day" and something bottlenecks it at once every 24 hours, not (almost) 8 hours, but I can't find that now.

I get the impression from the SRD that divine spells do have an effective once per 24 hours limit, b/c refresh is keyed to a certain time of day (depending on the individual or their deity).

Related question: when do magic items refresh? When you rest, or at a particular time of day?

[dsmiles]

From the SRD info on refreshing daily spells (arcane: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/arcaneSpells.htm, divine: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/divineSpells.htm) I get the impression that an arcane caster can refresh all their spells by resting for 8 hours, and then doing a 15 min to 1 hour prep period (depending on wiz/sorc/bard/etc.) Does this mean that a bard could, for example, fight and cast spells in the morning, rest from noon to 8:15 pm, and then fight with refreshed spells per day that night?

I have some vague memory about text saying "...mind is only considered fresh for the first preparation each day" and something bottlenecks it at once every 24 hours, not (almost) 8 hours, but I can't find that now.

I get the impression from the SRD that divine spells do have an effective once per 24 hours limit, b/c refresh is keyed to a certain time of day (depending on the individual or their deity).

Related question: when do magic items refresh? When you rest, or at a particular time of day?Once every 24 hours was the norm in 1e/2e. I'm going to go out on a limb and say that most people, like me, still use it to keep the balance a little better. As far as magic items, I usually use the rest period as the recharge time (unless the characters don't rest, as has been known to happen, then I better be keeping track of the actual time of day).

[Saph]

Divine casters can only prepare spells at a specific time each day, as per the Magic chapter in the PHB.

Arcane casters don't have this restriction, but if you look at their class listing, the table says "spells per day" not "spells per 8-hour rest period".

In practice, since most parties have both arcane and divine casters, the party waits for the divine casters to pray for spells and moves out after that.

[panaikhan]

When our party rests, it rests until the next day. It is quite possible for me to say that our group measures days this way - we don't track every 10' travelled, every difficult trap disarmed, every monster fought, at least from a time perspective. No-one tries any of the possible multi-rest cheese either.

[kc0bbq]

Once every 24 hours was the norm in 1e/2e.Spells would take DAYS to recover in 1e (and I think 2e was the same) at high levels. It was 15 minutes per spell level of study on top of a certain amount of rest beforehand depending on the max level of spell you were trying to recover (4-16 hours, IIRC). If you were just trying to memorize a 9th level spell, and that was it, you'd spend like 18.25 hours on it.

Unlike 3e, you could actually run a Magic User out of resources if you hounded him enough, spell interruption and all of the other costs of magic pre-3e aside.

[dsmiles]

Spells would take DAYS to recover in 1e (and I think 2e was the same) at high levels. It was 15 minutes per spell level of study on top of a certain amount of rest beforehand depending on the max level of spell you were trying to recover (4-16 hours, IIRC). If you were just trying to memorize a 9th level spell, and that was it, you'd spend like 18.25 hours on it.

Unlike 3e, you could actually run a Magic User out of resources if you hounded him enough, spell interruption and all of the other costs of magic pre-3e aside.I dunno, I routinely run wizards out of spells in 3.5e.

[ffone]

Divine casters can only prepare spells at a specific time each day, as per the Magic chapter in the PHB.

Arcane casters don't have this restriction, but if you look at their class listing, the table says "spells per day" not "spells per 8-hour rest period".


That is a helpful observation. I wonder if 'per day' is defined anywhere.

A few things I should say about my question:

- The caster vs noncaster Balance Wars that pervade almost every thread at GitP are not much of an issue here (the context is an unoptimized bard). I'm more interested in RAW than 'how it should be'.

- The players are not trying to be munchkiny. It came up as a natural part of the plot I was DMing: at noon, PCs get a clue that the baddies are gonna try some heist hijinx in the wee hours. So they wanted to 'rest early' and if possible recharge spells over afternoon/evening to be ready to fight late at night rather than at dawn.

- Also in this context, it's the first time the party's rested in the campaign, so while midnight would be less than 24 hours since the bard had cast her spells, it might very well be more than 24 hours since the last time she did refresh spells (which would've been offstage pre-campaign-timeline). So the current scenario is almost certainly legit but I need to know how to do it for the future. The players really aren't trying to be munchkiny, it's a genuine question of 'obviously our heroes would only rest as long as they need to with a somewhat time-sensitive quest plot, but we need the DM to tell us how long that is.'

[Jarian]

RAW-wise, the rules say that if an arcane caster rests for 8 hours, he can recover his spells. A heading on a table is not a contradiction to this.

I, personally, would not allow a caster to get two sets of spells in a 24 hour period, but as far as I can tell, nothing's stopping your bard from resting for 8 hours right now and getting his spells.

Also, you're the DM. If there's a slight ambiguity in the rules, the way you see the situation should be what matters. Do you want him to be able to get his spells in this situation? If yes, then he can. It's as simple as that, really.

Edit: Though, of course, if you have a cleric in the party trying to refresh his spells in a similar way, there is that pesky requirement of him having to pray at a certain hour of the day. *shrug*

[Wings of Peace]

Mneumonic Enhancer (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/mnemonicenhancer.htm) combined with Mind Mage (http://www.angelfire.com/pro/demon_1/prc_mind_mage.htm) at higher levels along with a liberal reading of Versatile Spellcaster both on a Prepared Casting build would allow you to refresh all of your spell slots on a whim. A loop of Mnemonic Enhancer along with liberal readings also works on a prepared caster.

Primal Scholar combined with Unfettered Heroism is also good.

I realize neither of these are relevant to the OP specifically but they seemed relevant.