Tiger Claw maneuvers

[rye0006]

I was looking at one of my characters and the maneuvers he has as a warblade and suddenly thought if i was playing them correctly.

Maneuvers like 'Claw at the moon' and 'Death from above' require you to make a jump check to deal additional damage. Does this mean that the jump check replaces the attack roll or that you make a jump check, then a normal attack roll?

I'm sure this is a stupid question and that I have been playing it right, but suddenly thought I might be making things harder for myself by having to make 2 roles when only 1 is needed.

Cheers in advance Playgrounders! :smallbiggrin:

[Greenish]

Both require both Jump check and an attack roll.

[Halae]

Oh, I have another question about Tiger claw maneuvers - do claws count as two-weapon fighting for the purpose of using maneuvers?

[sonofzeal]

Oh, I have another question about Tiger claw maneuvers - do claws count as two-weapon fighting for the purpose of using maneuvers?
...sort of. There's a funny line between natural weapons and manufactured weapons. As a DM I'd certainly allow it though.

[Scarlet-Devil]

I have yet another question, and probably a very simple one: with Wolf Fang Strike, can you make both attacks with unarmed strikes?

[DeltaEmil]

Yes. An unarmed strike is considered a weapon that can also be enchanted by spells like magic weapon and the likes. Monks just have the benefit that their unarmed strike can also be enchanted by magic fang and similar effects.

[sonofzeal]

I have yet another question, and probably a very simple one: with Wolf Fang Strike, can you make both attacks with unarmed strikes?
Yes; certainly if you were a monk, and probably otherwise. The maneuver explicitly lets you strike with your off hand as an unarmed attack, despite the fact that unarmed strike generally doesn't have an off hand. The only question is initiating "weapon" maneuvers in general with an unarmed strike or natural attack, but given that Unarmed is one of the school weapons for Tiger Claw, I would have serious issue with any DM that ruled that way.

[Darrin]

Yes; certainly if you were a monk, and probably otherwise.


Actually, yes by RAW, unarmed strikes can be used as an off-hand weapon for TWF. From the SRD:

"Unarmed strikes count as light weapons (for purposes of two-weapon attack penalties and so on)."

It's not explicitly clear if you can use unarmed strike as both your primary *and* off-hand weapon in the same attack progression, but almost everybody allows this.



The maneuver explicitly lets you strike with your off hand as an unarmed attack, despite the fact that unarmed strike generally doesn't have an off hand.


That only applies to unarmed strikes for monks, since there's no mention of it anywhere except for in the monk's "Unarmed Strike" class feature:

"There is no such thing as an off-hand attack for a monk striking unarmed."

Some folks interpret this as saying monks can't use unarmed strikes as off-hand attacks, but near as I can determine, that wasn't the intent of this sentence. What it *should* say is monks get their full Strength bonus on all their unarmed strikes, even if the strikes are off-hand attacks. Again, this only applies to a monk's unarmed strikes. If a non-monk uses an unarmed strike as an off-hand attack, then he only gets 1/2 Str bonus, as the rules for TWF specify.



The only question is initiating "weapon" maneuvers in general with an unarmed strike or natural attack, but given that Unarmed is one of the school weapons for Tiger Claw, I would have serious issue with any DM that ruled that way.

"Claw" is also listed as a discipline weapon for Tiger Claw, and that's clearly a natural weapon. The intent seems pretty clear: you can use natural weapons with most maneuvers. The only rules conflict I can see might be the maneuvers that let you attack with a weapon more than once, but I can't really see how that would be game-breaking, and is easily chalked up to "specific maneuver text trumps general natural weapon rules".