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View Full Version : How should this character respond to this party?



Jay R
2011-02-01, 02:00 PM
We're playing a game of 2nd Edition D&D, and my elf Treewalker has worked his way up to 5th level Thief / 4th level MU. In this world, elves are outcasts; nobody even knows what "elves" are. They are almost never seen.

My character grew up in an orphanage, and was always the outcast child -- excluded, mistrusted, and alone. So when an opportunity to leave this continent to join an expedition exploring a new one, he jumped at it.

That's where he met the others -- a human paladin, a human warrior, and an elven ranger. Before the ship sailed, these four were accused of a murder, and successfully worked together to clear their names and defeat the true menace. Then on the voyage, there was a huge storm. During and after a shipwreck, we all worked together to save the lives of as many as we could. By the end of that adventure, I wrote the following on his character description: "He has just undergone several new experiences – finding another person like himself, being treated as an equal by his companions, and working together for a common good. (Note that being accused of a crime he didn’t commit was not a new experience for him.)" I decided that he would always be fiercely loyal to the rest of the party, because they were the only people who had always trusted him and treated him as an equal.

Note that while he has the character class "thief", he has never stolen anything. In fact, he has never added a single discretionary point to his Pickpocket skill, and never made a Pickpocket roll. The only locks he's ever picked were in adventures to serve the party.

In the last two adventures, we've been back in the old world, and I started a running joke. Each time we enter a new place, I ask the DM what valuables are there, and what the locks and windows were like. (Note that in game terms, all that happened was that Treewalker looked around, just like everybody else.)

This led to a running gag, in the form of somebody, usually the paladin, turning to him and saying, in character, "I have my eye on you; don't touch anything." She has occasionally specifically assigned another PC to watch Treewalker and keep him from doing anything. She did this twice in public, with strangers listening.

OK -- it's funny, and I sort of started it. But from Treewalker's perspective, the people he has been fiercely loyal to are publicly showing the world that they do not trust him or consider him an equal.

So how should he react? It's not the sort of game where PCs backstab the party (and I won't do that anyway). It seems to me that he has just discovered that his companions are treating him exactly as everybody else has all his life. His most likely reaction is to just leave the party -- sneak off some night and never return. From a character perspective, that's what he'd do, but that's the same as quitting the game, which I'm not willing to do.

The problem is that I defined a crucial part of his character based on how they treated him -- and that has changed.

How does Treewalker react in-game to the party, without Jay either quitting the game or offending his friends? The ideas I've had (other than leaving the game) are to:
a. become paranoid, making a point of keeping away from anybody else, so he can't be accused of anything but trying this will undoubtedly offend my friends),
b. give up being honest, since even his friends will never believe it, and actually start stealing (but at 5th level he can't succeed at this for long),
c. attempt to be so honest that his companions might someday trust him (but nothing in his background gives him a reason to believe that this is possible, and I'm not sure how to role-play it anyway).

I don't see any way to gain anything by talking to the players OOC. I expect that that would upset them without fixing anything.

This is a serious question. I don't want to cause trouble for the players, and I want to stay in character, and I don't see any way to do both.

Any suggestions?

woodenbandman
2011-02-01, 02:12 PM
Well the paladin is being prejudiced against you. Using OOC information no less. How you react is up to you but if it was me, I'd either talk to the paladin or pull some passive aggressive stuff on him. In-character, of course.

Wardog
2011-02-01, 02:12 PM
1) Out of character: ask the other players if they have misinterpreted how you are playing your character, and if so, explain what you are actually doing and why.

and/or:

2) In character: ask the other characters if they have misinterpreted your actions, and if so, explain what you are actually doing and why.


Its been a very long time since I actually did any role playing (and it wasn't D&D), so I'm not sure what the general etiquette is (let along how your group does it), but if you are treating the game as "collaborative storytelling" rather than a "competitive" campaign, I don't see why you couldn't have an OOC discussion to decide a) what each character's motivation is, b) what each character thinks the other characters' motivations are, and c) what the consequences of these misunderstandings will be.

Pink
2011-02-01, 02:20 PM
Really, you kinda said this, but this situation is sorta your fault, what with the casing the place for valuables type of comment. D&D being a game we all use our imagination to envision what's actually happening, while you might think of it as a funny way to say that your character looks around, everyone else might be envisioning you looking at a valuable jeweled statue with a gleam in your eye, licking your lips and eyes darting around to check if anyone's watching while a hand reaches out to not-quite-touch it. Yes, this may not be what you're intending, but when you describe your actions in such a way, it may be what other people perceive.

If you want this to stop, first of all, drop the joke. Second of all, do have a quick OOC conversation with the other players. Something along the lines of:
"Okay guys, I know I always say I'm casing the place for valuables, but that's just a joke. Think back, has my character ever actually attempted to steal something? Has he done anything deserving of being watched like a criminal? I'd like to drop with the jokes now though and get more serious with this character. This means that, in character, if you guys keep treating this member of the group, who's been through thick and thin with the rest of you, like an outcast criminal, he's gonna take offence at it. This has nothing to do with our OOC interactions, like I said, I'd just like to roleplay this character more seriously."

And see where discussion goes from there. Hopefully they'll respect that and such, but if they don't, unless this is gonna turn into an OOC player issue, RP accordingly. They don't trust you? Then you don't trust them. Demand immediate shares of the loot, always be packed and ready to leave if you need to, question the motivations of the other party members, and if they ask why the sudden change in character, you can bring up how you've been nothing but a loyal, hard working member of the party and have been treated with nothing but suspicion. Say how you're used to that, and hate that, and you never thought that you would be treated the same way by your three closest friends. or Something.

If it is a OOC player issue, well...Need more details to go on advising. Simple answer would be to just play the character in a way that's fun for everyone, you included. Some people aren't into deep RP as much and think that the party generally sticks together through any sort've abuse as long as weapons aren't drawn.

Jay R
2011-02-01, 02:24 PM
I think people are misunderstanding my question. I'm not looking at this like a problem to be solved, so no OOC conversation has any relevance. My question is a straightforward game-oriented RP one: how do I play the character's reaction to what has occurred?

Pink
2011-02-01, 02:31 PM
I think people are misunderstanding my question. I'm not looking at this like a problem to be solved, so no OOC conversation has any relevance. My question is a straightforward game-oriented RP one: how do I play the character's reaction to what has occurred?

I believe I actually did try to cover that in my post.

That being said, the reason I mentioned the OOC conversation, is because I believe that the actions of 'watching the thief' are largely a response to an misinterpretation of your character's actions based on the way you worded them. I think it's unfair of you to react to the actions others have taken on this, without trying to clarify and give them a chance to change how they might've reacted.

BrainFreeze
2011-02-01, 03:02 PM
A character checking for valuables and checking the locks and security on the windows is a bit more involved then a quick glance around the room. Especially when it happens often. Your character can take this supposed betrayal however they want but the Pally does have a basis for suspicion. At least until the character takes the time to explain himself.

Jay R
2011-02-01, 03:43 PM
I believe I actually did try to cover that in my post.

True. I hadn't seen that post yet.


That being said, the reason I mentioned the OOC conversation, is because I believe that the actions of 'watching the thief' are largely a response to an misinterpretation of your character's actions based on the way you worded them. I think it's unfair of you to react to the actions others have taken on this, without trying to clarify and give them a chance to change how they might've reacted.

Well, that session already occurred. They can't change how they might've reacted. They can only change how they will react in the future.

You are certainly correct that I started this with Jay's comments. But I still need to decide how Treewalker reacts.

And you think it's "unfair" for me to react? That's what gaming is -- reacting to the situation the character finds himself in.

By contrast, I think it's unfair to react to their in-game actions outside the game. That would be like accusing the banker in Monopoly of breaking usury laws.

If it is unfair for me to react the the in-game situation in the game, then I cannot show up at the table at all.

Jay R
2011-02-01, 03:49 PM
I'll try this one more time. I know I started it; I know the paladin has a basis for suspicions; I know where it came from, and there is no issue between players.

You can stop trying to find a solution to the problem; there is no problem to solve.

I have not asked an OOC question. I have not asked how to make it stop. I am not asking how to solve a personal issue between players. I'm trying to figure out a game reaction that won't cause an issue between players.

The question is this: Treewalker is in a given situation. How does he react to it? I am unwilling to quit the game or annoy the other players.

Marnath
2011-02-01, 03:52 PM
I think it's worth pointing out that such behavior( looking for valuables, and the resulting " I have my eye on you") could all be in the spirit of messing around, like an injoke. They wouldn't be the first friends to regularly say horrible horrible things to each other and not really mean it. :smallsmile:

Either that, or you could pitch it as an act the two of you put on for the benefit of predjudiced onlookers. That is to say, you're expected to be a no good thief/vagrant anyway so you play to the stereotype a little, give them what they expect to see, and your friend makes a show of keeping you in line, so that anyone who would bother you won't because you've already got a chaperone.

It doesn't have to be an actual loss of trust, just get the player onboard with you.

Fallbot
2011-02-01, 04:54 PM
The question is this: Treewalker is in a given situation. How does he react to it?

The problem is, this depends on a lot of aspects to the character that you'll know far better than us. Is he bitter at how he's been treated in the past, or is he just resigned? Is he too proud to want to prove himself to people he sees as bigots? The answers to questions like those will influence what he decides to do.

But for what it's worth, my 2CP; From the sound of it, the character is absolutely desperate for acceptance and, if the other characters are still treating him decently aside from the thief thing, I don't think their friendship is something he'd give up on so easily. These are the first people that have ever even attempted to be nice to him, and throwing it all away by playing into the stereotype or just vanishing into the night would be very foolish and immature on his part. So I guess I'd lean towards option C?

Another reason for choosing C would be that it's not really fair to the other players to blow it up into a big sulkfest for your character when, as other's have said, they probably didn't realise their characters were responding to OOC actions. Obviously you're in the situation now and it's reasonable to respond to it in game, but making it into a massive issue and starting to passive-aggressively steal stuff just isn't fair. So do deal with it, but do it subtly, and don't make it into a big game screwing, character-friendship destroying thing.

Gryndle
2011-02-01, 05:02 PM
A character checking for valuables and checking the locks and security on the windows is a bit more involved then a quick glance around the room. Especially when it happens often. Your character can take this supposed betrayal however they want but the Pally does have a basis for suspicion. At least until the character takes the time to explain himself.

I disagree. It takes very little OBVIOUS effort to identify entrances, exits, obvious lacks in security and exposed valuables. It would actually take MORE effort on the Paladin's part to notice the behaviour.

I really think it comes down to the other players acting on meta-game knowledge to a simple (admittedly poorly chosen) joke that has been carried too far.

DeltaEmil
2011-02-01, 05:05 PM
The question is this: Treewalker is in a given situation. How does he react to it? By proving to them that he is indeed a good and decent person, and that he will not do that for which he was (falsely?) accused all the time in his life. How you roleplay this out is your responsability.

Jay R
2011-02-02, 10:05 AM
By proving to them that he is indeed a good and decent person, and that he will not do that for which he was (falsely?) accused all the time in his life. How you roleplay this out is your responsability.

I like it -- yes. And he can decide during the game where that takes him.

Thanks.

ajkkjjk52
2011-02-02, 01:28 PM
It seems to me that he has just discovered that his companions are treating him exactly as everybody else has all his life. His most likely reaction is to just leave the party -- sneak off some night and never return. From a character perspective, that's what he'd do, but that's the same as quitting the game, which I'm not willing to do.

You've answered your own question here. Your character would leave. When a character starts writing their own reactions, that's a good sign you're roleplaying well.

But to answer the second part of your concern, no, having your character sneak off into the night is not the same as quitting the game. Talk to your GM about bringing in a new character. Your character runs off and becomes an NPC, and a few (in-game) hours or days later, the rest of the party meets another adventurer whose interests coincide with theirs and with whom they decide to travel.

Having characters leave for personal reasons is a common feature of my current game; characters often have goals from their bacstories that are temporarily aided by working with the party, but sometimes they have to go their own way. It's not the end of the game.

WarKitty
2011-02-02, 02:36 PM
Another possible idea, from something me rogue did in-game once:

Steal something from the paladin at night. Preferably something you can get easily. Then present it back to him in the morning as proof of your honesty.

Jornophelanthas
2011-02-02, 09:03 PM
a. become paranoid, making a point of keeping away from anybody else, so he can't be accused of anything but trying this will undoubtedly offend my friends),
b. give up being honest, since even his friends will never believe it, and actually start stealing (but at 5th level he can't succeed at this for long),
c. attempt to be so honest that his companions might someday trust him (but nothing in his background gives him a reason to believe that this is possible, and I'm not sure how to role-play it anyway).

What about:

d. talk to the paladin in character.
It might go something like this:

Treewalker: "Paladin, don't you trust me any more? You're always telling people to watch me, even in public. It's humiliating."
Paladin: "I always see you sneaking around other people's valuables, and the locks they keep on their doors. Are you up to something?"
Treewalker: "No, it's just a habit to find where people keep their gold and jewelry, and how they keep it safe. I want to be sharp for when we raid a dungeon, because the evil goblins may try to use the same kind of security measures."
Paladin: "Hm. Are you sure you're not considering stealing anything?"
Treewalker: "You're my friend. If you don't want me to steal, I won't steal."
Paladin: "I guess that's good enough for me. I apologize for doubting you."
Treewalker: "No problem."

Paladin (alone and to himself): "I'm being a good influence on Treewalker. He won't break any laws as long as he respects me."

Just like in real life, talking about a problem can clear the air.

Lord.Sorasen
2011-02-02, 09:13 PM
I'm not so sure your rogue would feel betrayed. Yes, he never steals, but he knows how to disable traps and pick locks, and honestly, does that not feel like the qualities a thief would have? Of course, the paladin's wrong. But still.

What's the paladin's tone? He after all, could be joking himself.

I really like the idea of your character talking to the paladin. But your character is an outcast.. I don't think he's leave the group. I could see him being passive about it. Perhaps whenever the party meets with an NPC with a non-lawful or non-good alignment, he could whisper to the party "Don't try to smite anyone, I have my eye on you." Return the jab sort of thing.