Girard Draketooth

[Themrys]

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0695.html

Girard is a paranoid fool. With red hair. It all fits together: He's somehow related to Haley!

[KingFlameHawk]

Not impossible Girard is old enough to be Haley's grandfather and as you said does look and act like Ian. I suppose we will just have to wait for the answer in the comic.

[jidasfire]

I wouldn't give it a 1:1 chance of being true, since, as many people on here will probably tell you, there are only so many ways to draw stick figure characters, and as such, redheaded characters will certainly look alike. However, I wouldn't completely rule it out either. There is a bit of circumstantial evidence for a relationship between Haley and Girard.

Waaaaaaay back in On the Origin of the PCs, Mr. Burlew suggested that one member of the Order had a hidden connection to the overall plot. It's certainly not Roy, since we know just about everything about him, nor it is Elan, for much the same reason. It's unlikely to be Durkon, because he is very family-oriented and would know if he was, say, related to Kraagor, and likely to reveal it if he was. It's also probably not Belkar, since by nature he has a very shallow and underwritten past. It could be Vaarsuvius, since he/she is much older than the others and isn't always keen on revealing everything, not to mention the appearance of that mysterious elf in Start of Darkness who kind of looks like him/her.

However, Haley is probably the strongest candidate. For one thing, she's the character with the most secrets by design. She and her father do indeed bear a resemblance to Girard and share his Chaotic nature and distrustful demeanor. I am also forced to wonder what Ian's sister is doing out on the Western continent and what vested interest she has in liberating it from Tarquin. If the Starshine family is originally from there, that could be seen as another connection to Girard.

I don't think, even if it's true, Haley knows of this connection. Even as secretive as she is, I think she'd tell Roy about a bombshell like that if she knew it. There's a chance Ian might tell Haley if he knew, but then again, he might not (and if he does know, he apparently didn't). There's also the chance that Girard himself might not tell his own family about the Gates, since his methods were based heavily on secrecy and misdirection.

So then, is Girard Ian's father and Haley's grandfather? Obviously it's too early to say, but I can't say it would bother me overmuch if it was the case. It would create a link between the Orders of the Stick and Scribble, which, while not necessary, isn't a bad story element. Not to mention, if Girard thinks like Ian and trusts family over all, it would give Haley a means to find the Gate when no one else can. I'm not of the mind that everyone in fantasy stories needs to be related (and indeed, it can get really lame and shrink a setting if it's overdone), but once in awhile, it can work, and this might be one of those cases.

[Alagaesian]

Now, if this idea is true, it adds something else interesting to the mix besides an unnecessary family relation between two characters. Isn't it heavily implied that Serini liked Draketooth? I highly doubt that Ian is a half-halfling. (A quarterling?)

[jidasfire]

I have recognized a flaw in my own logic. If Girard was Ian's father, wouldn't they have the same last name? I suppose it's possible Ian changed his name, but another theory occurs to me. What if Girard's mysterious cabal isn't just an organization, but a family? It would fit in well with the familial theme in the current arc, and perhaps then Ian wouldn't have to be Girard's son, but simply a nephew or cousin. It would make more sense that Haley wouldn't know in that case.

A clan of red-haired anarchists protecting the 4th Gate. Could be interesting if it's true.

[Gift Jeraff]

He also looks similar to Elan/Nale/Tarquin (and even switched between having a goatee and not) and, like Elan, focuses on illusions. Which is the basis for "Elan is related to Draketooth" speculation.

The truth is that Girard had an evil twin (hence why sometimes he is shown with a goatee) who was raised by the Starshine side of his family and is the bearded Girard shown in the recorded illusion. Girard Draketooth is Tarquin's [grand]father and the one with a green magic aura.

Since we all know that Girard is a dragon in disguise, Haley's draconic heritage is what she is ashamed of. The draconic blood is also the source of Nale's sorcery.

Girard Starshine imprisoned Draketooth (and dispelled his polymorph), who is now the champion/main attraction at the arena. Aunt Ivy is also a polymorphed dragon, but she ditched the disguise after Ian was caught and became the Empress of Blood.

But the real truth is that Girard and Ian are both part of the Ginger Separatist Movement.

[ChowGuy]

\But the real truth is that Girard and Ian are both part of the Ginger Separatist Movement.

Wait, does that mean Haley is part Muskrat? That's her awful secret!

[jidasfire]

He also looks similar to Elan/Nale/Tarquin (and even switched between having a goatee and not) and, like Elan, focuses on illusions. Which is the basis for "Elan is related to Draketooth" speculation.

The truth is that Girard had an evil twin (hence why sometimes he is shown with a goatee) who was raised by the Starshine side of his family and is the bearded Girard shown in the recorded illusion. Girard Draketooth is Tarquin's [grand]father and the one with a green magic aura.

Since we all know that Girard is a dragon in disguise, Haley's draconic heritage is what she is ashamed of. The draconic blood is also the source of Nale's sorcery.

Girard Starshine imprisoned Draketooth (and dispelled his polymorph), who is now the champion/main attraction at the arena. Aunt Ivy is also a polymorphed dragon, but she ditched the disguise after Ian was caught and became the Empress of Blood.

But the real truth is that Girard and Ian are both part of the Ginger Separatist Movement.

Look, we're all quite aware that there's a lot of guessing on the forums. I for one am not suggesting anything I've said has been correct, but my point was that there is potential evidence of a connection beyond "they look alike." So before you break out your kneejerk sarcasm, maybe address what people are actually saying.

[Gift Jeraff]

Why the defense? It's all in jest. (I wasn't even addressing your post at all. If you think "Ginger Separatist Movement" was referring to your red-haired anarchist suggestion, it was not. Might have sub-consciously reminded me of the South Park episode, though.)

And I was gonna suggest that, if they are related, Ian (or one of his parents or whatever) could be an illegitimate child, hence the difference in surnames. Not impossible since Girard was an adventurer on-the-go, quite charming based Serini's diary, and seems like the type to not be into settling down.

[Dr.Epic]

Another character-x-must-be-related-to-character-y-because-they-both-share-generic-trait-z thread? Is it really that time of the month again?

Yeah, being paranoid and red headed isn't exactly rare. Hey! Maybe O-Chul and Roy are related because they both are bald and are good fighters. Paranoia isn't a genetic trait so how does that even make sense?

[jidasfire]

Why the defense? It's all in jest. (I wasn't even addressing your post at all. If you think "Ginger Separatist Movement" was referring to your red-haired anarchist suggestion, it was not. Might have sub-consciously reminded me of the South Park episode, though.)

And I was gonna suggest that, if they are related, Ian (or one of his parents or whatever) could be an illegitimate child, hence the difference in surnames. Not impossible since Girard was an adventurer on-the-go, quite charming based Serini's diary, and seems like the type to not be into settling down.

Ah, well sorry I got snippy then. That's the internet problem, I guess. Can't always tell tone of voice.

[G-Man Graves]

Another character-x-must-be-related-to-character-y-because-they-both-share-generic-trait-z thread? Is it really that time of the month again?

Yeah, being paranoid and red headed isn't exactly rare. Hey! Maybe O-Chul and Roy are related because they both are bald and are good fighters. Paranoia isn't a genetic trait so how does that even make sense?

YOU FOOL! They are also Lawful Good! And they both have levels in fighter! And they both use two handed weapons! In your haste to make parody, you have discovered the hidden truth!

[Demonicbunny]

Waaaaaaay back in On the Origin of the PCs, Mr. Burlew suggested that one member of the Order had a hidden connection to the overall plot. It's certainly not Roy, since we know just about everything about him, nor it is Elan, for much the same reason. It's unlikely to be Durkon, because he is very family-oriented and would know if he was, say, related to Kraagor, and likely to reveal it if he was. It's also probably not Belkar, since by nature he has a very shallow and underwritten past. It could be Vaarsuvius, since he/she is much older than the others and isn't always keen on revealing everything, not to mention the appearance of that mysterious elf in Start of Darkness who kind of looks like him/her.

However, Haley is probably the strongest candidate. For one thing, she's the character with the most secrets by design. She and her father do indeed bear a resemblance to Girard and share his Chaotic nature and distrustful demeanor. I am also forced to wonder what Ian's sister is doing out on the Western continent and what vested interest she has in liberating it from Tarquin. If the Starshine family is originally from there, that could be seen as another connection to Girard.

My theory is that Belkar is Serinis illegitimate lovechild. He has known all along where Serinis gate is, but didn't mention it because he didn't think it was important (that's what low wisdom will do for ya).
I bet that "Bitterleaf" is one of those names that Halflings assign to bastard children.

:smallwink:

[Morquard]

Yeah I had the theory too back when we so the hologram the first time, that Girard is Haley's granddad.
It would fit from the timeline too.

Of course, yes, bla bla, only so many ways, blabla, I know :)

[Crazeemeel]

Waaaaaaay back in On the Origin of the PCs, Mr. Burlew suggested that one member of the Order had a hidden connection to the overall plot.

In which intro section does it say this? I'd just like to see exactly what he says

[Raging Gene Ray]

Now, if this idea is true, it adds something else interesting to the mix besides an unnecessary family relation between two characters. Isn't it heavily implied that Serini liked Draketooth? I highly doubt that Ian is a half-halfling. (A quarterling?)

You know, not everyone ends up living happily ever after and starting a family with the first person they have a crush on. Especially if their and said crush's personalities change drastically over the course of an epic adventure and the character development that should come with it.

[Nimrod's Son]

Waaaaaaay back in On the Origin of the PCs, Mr. Burlew suggested that one member of the Order had a hidden connection to the overall plot.
In which intro section does it say this? I'd just like to see exactly what he says
Yeah, I'm curious about this too. There's no commentary in OtOoPCs, just a one-page introduction, and he doesn't say anything of the sort there; ditto for SoD, and (to the best of my recollection) he doesn't say that in any of the compilations either. I'm not 100% sure of that last bit, 'cause I'm not about to reread four books' worth of commentary just to check. But I'd be interested to know what jidasfire is getting at there.

[jidasfire]

Yeah, I'm curious about this too. There's no commentary in OtOoPCs, just a one-page introduction, and he doesn't say anything of the sort there; ditto for SoD, and (to the best of my recollection) he doesn't say that in any of the compilations either. I'm not 100% sure of that last bit, 'cause I'm not about to reread four books' worth of commentary just to check. But I'd be interested to know what jidasfire is getting at there.

Right at the end of the intro of the book, The Giant says, "And in at least one case, I wasn't ready to reveal a history that will, in part, be integral to the main plot of Order of the Stick, so I chose a different scene from that character's previous life."

Vague, yes, but it's always bugged me and I've been watching for it ever since.

[Nimrod's Son]

Right at the end of the intro of the book, The Giant says, "And in at least one case, I wasn't ready to reveal a history that will, in part, be integral to the main plot of Order of the Stick, so I chose a different scene from that character's previous life."

Vague, yes, but it's always bugged me and I've been watching for it ever since.
Ah, yes. Well, in that case, he's talking about Vaarsuvius, and the dragon episode. We had no idea V had children until the dragon brought it up. That's why we only see V's very recent history in Origin, plus a few flashback panels.

[Themrys]

Another character-x-must-be-related-to-character-y-because-they-both-share-generic-trait-z thread? Is it really that time of the month again?

Yeah, being paranoid and red headed isn't exactly rare. Hey! Maybe O-Chul and Roy are related because they both are bald and are good fighters. Paranoia isn't a genetic trait so how does that even make sense?


Being paranoid is family tradition. You know, people normally not only inherit genetic traits.

Besides, I like making up funny theories. Why do you take everything so seriously?


Belkar can't be illegitimate, or at least not be named Bitterleaf because of that. He mentioned Grandma Bitterleaf once. ;)

[Demonicbunny]

Belkar can't be illegitimate, or at least not be named Bitterleaf because of that. He mentioned Grandma Bitterleaf once. ;)

I can name two reasons why my theory could still be true.

1. Belkars attachement to the truth is based on strict personal benefit (or because it would be hilarious).
2. It's convenient to use personal relations as a starting point. It wouldn't have made anyone any wiser to say "Grandma Toormuck". While calling someone who isn't called Bitterleaf "Grandma Bitterleaf" isn't strictly true, it is true in the sense that Belkar calls himself Bitterleaf and if he considered her his Grandma (regardless of actual Blood relation) she would be Grandma Bitterleaf from Belkars perspective. Or at least it would not be a stretch to present her as such.

Or as an alternative theory.
It's 65 years ago. Grandma Bitterleaf could very well be Serini Toormuck that has changed her name to avoid attention (or it could be Serini Toormucks mother, I don't know how long the Halfling lifecycle is). After all, when you're old and (relatively) feeble, would you want to be known by your world famous adventurer name if you didn't have ****loads of guards to hold off "Bad guys who want to make a name for themselves and other Parasites".

Sure, it's an epileptic trees theory, but I'm running with it :smallamused:

[Themrys]

Considering that Belkar lies on a regular basis and there are people on the internet who refer to their husband as "Mr. Nickname" or their wife as "Mrs. Nickname"...may be.

And then there is the possibility that Serini urged Belkar to change his last name so people wouldn't know they are related. For a nice person like her, being related to Belkar would be embarassing. :smallbiggrin:

[Lvl45DM!]

Well if Serini is his Mother/Grandmother wouldnt he get his name from his father? you know like the vast majority of cultures?
So he could be Belkar Bitterleaf-Toormuck

[Cizak]

Besides, I like making up funny theories. Why do you take everything so seriously?

Because saying "X has two eyes, so does Y, they must be realted!" isn't everyone's idea of fun? Most people would rahter discuss things in a more serious manner.

EDIT: And after seeing almost one thread like this for every character in the comic, it gets old. Really old.

[Demonicbunny]

Considering that Belkar lies on a regular basis and there are people on the internet who refer to their husband as "Mr. Nickname" or their wife as "Mrs. Nickname"...may be.

And then there is the possibility that Serini urged Belkar to change his last name so people wouldn't know they are related. For a nice person like her, being related to Belkar would be embarassing. :smallbiggrin:

True. There is also a third option. That halfling adventurers take up a pseudonym so that their mischief can't be traced back to their original village.
I mean, "Belkar Bitterleaf" is both a cool and alliterative name. Something that a guy like Belkar Bitterleaf would call himself. While Serini Toormuck seems a lot more down to earth, and as might not choose a Cool McAwesome style name.

Given halflings reputation (in almost every media) as mischevious or "people with a poor perspective on property rights" at best and "thieving troublemakers" at worst (that is, before the very not-jolly Belkar Bitterleaf arrived in the scene and established a new low in the form of "Homocidal maniac whose evil is measured in KiloNazis") this seems like a reasonable precaution.


P.S:
Because saying "X has two eyes, so does Y, they must be realted!" isn't everyone's idea of fun? Most people would rahter discuss things in a more serious manner.

I wouldn't. Serious discussion about purely fictional relationships is about as productive as twiddling my thumbs and about as cool as spasticly argue who would win in a fight between Wolverine and Jean-Luc Picard.

[Wou]

Well, both Girard (illusionist) and Serini (rogue) are sneaky evasive types (at least should be, we don't know much about Serini right now), and assuming fake identity for some secret mission (in their case for the rest of their lives) is rather good idea for various reasons, one of them being "they cant use my family against me if they don't know we're related". So it's not THAT impossible that either Girard is really Mr. Starshine senior or Serini changed her name to Bitterleaf at some point after the split up or both. Not that I believe in that to be true, would be to cheesy IMO, but not impossible.

[Nimrod's Son]

It's convenient to use personal relations as a starting point. It wouldn't have made anyone any wiser to say "Grandma Toormuck". While calling someone who isn't called Bitterleaf "Grandma Bitterleaf" isn't strictly true, it is true in the sense that Belkar calls himself Bitterleaf and if he considered her his Grandma (regardless of actual Blood relation) she would be Grandma Bitterleaf from Belkars perspective. Or at least it would not be a stretch to present her as such.
Yes it would. Belkar wouldn't call his grandmother "Grandma Bitterleaf" if Bitterleaf wasn't her surname. When people refer to a grandparent with a surname, it's to differentiate them from another grandparent with the same title but a different surname - you know, like Bob Jones talking about "Grandma Jones" and "Grandma Smith". If her surname weren't Bitterleaf, why not just say "Grandma"? The audience would still know exactly what he meant. No one refers to their grandparents with surnames that don't actually belong to them. That would be all kinds of weird.

[zimmerwald1915]

There's also a Mama Bitterleaf. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0476.html)

[Demonicbunny]

There's also a Mama Bitterleaf. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0476.html)

Which reinforces my point. Belkar refers to all his relatives as "[relationship] Bitterleaf", wether it's necessary or not.

Perhaps a result of a tragic background where he desperately tries to reinforce whatever relation he has to his "family", because it's so ephemeral and fleeting. :smallfrown:

...or not :belkar:

[Crazeemeel]

Ah, yes. Well, in that case, he's talking about Vaarsuvius, and the dragon episode. We had no idea V had children until the dragon brought it up. That's why we only see V's very recent history in Origin, plus a few flashback panels.

The fact that Vaarsuvius has kids hasn't affected the story in any way and so far is pretty irrelevant. But he also might not have been referring to Girard being Haley's granddaddy because we were still so far from learning about the Order of the Scribble.

Granted, Rich does plan his storyline WAYYYY in advance (or at least he says he does) and the book was also printed a fair bit later than those strips came out. So it is possible that that little reference to a character having a connection to the larger plot was having to do with Haley and Girard.

[MoonCat]

The fact that Vaarsuvius has kids hasn't affected the story in any way and so far is pretty irrelevant. But he also might not have been referring to Girard being Haley's granddaddy because we were still so far from learning about the Order of the Scribble.

Granted, Rich does plan his storyline WAYYYY in advance (or at least he says he does) and the book was also printed a fair bit later than those strips came out. So it is possible that that little reference to a character having a connection to the larger plot was having to do with Haley and Girard.

That Vaarsuvius had kids was a big plot point back in DStP Crazeemeel. Maybe you didn't notice.

[Cizak]

The fact that Vaarsuvius has kids hasn't affected the story in any way and so far is pretty irrelevant...

Yeah, tottally irrelevant. You know, except for Vaarsuvius selling his soul the three fiends who's also in it for the Gates, killing one quarter of the world's black dragons and getting divorced.

No effect on the story at all...

[Themrys]

Yeah, tottally irrelevant. You know, except for Vaarsuvius selling his soul the three fiends who's also in it for the Gates, killing one quarter of the world's black dragons and getting divorced.

No effect on the story at all...

Well, Vaarsuvius would also have rented hir soul to the fiends in order to save hir mate, I guess. So you could technically say the children aren't important.

[Cizak]

He "rented" his soul to save both his amte and his children, so all three are important. That's like saying "Saving the world isn't important, but stopping Xykon from ruling/destroying it is." It's the same thing.

[zimmerwald1915]

He "rented" his soul to save both his amte and his children, so all three are important. That's like saying "Saving the world isn't important, but stopping Xykon from ruling/destroying it is." It's the same thing.
I thought she rented his soul for the sake of her pride. Alternating pronouns are deliberate.

[Cizak]

I thought she rented his soul for the sake of her pride. Alternating pronouns are deliberate.

And to save his mate and children. But yeah okay, mostly pride I guess.

[Themrys]

I thought she rented his soul for the sake of her pride. Alternating pronouns are deliberate.

Personally, I think the alternative plan the imp presented was crap. I'm quite sure, without her pride, V would have thought the whole thing through and still rented hir soul to evil.
Maybe it would have taken a bit longer, but in the end, V would have done the same.

@Cizak: What I wanted to say was that if there were no children, the dragon still could have threatened V's mate and the story would have taken place.

[Herald Alberich]

Without children, the ancient black dragon could not have come up with her karma-riffic revenge plot, of killing (and soul-binding!) V's children because he killed hers. Symmetric (if over-the-top) retribution was important to the ABD, so killing V's mate wouldn't serve. She may have simply decided to kill V instead. There goes our story.

[Themrys]

Without children, the ancient black dragon could not have come up with her karma-riffic revenge plot, of killing (and soul-binding!) V's children because he killed hers. Symmetric (if over-the-top) retribution was important to the ABD, so killing V's mate wouldn't serve. She may have simply decided to kill V instead. There goes our story.

Sure she wouldn't have been content with killing someone who is important to V?

Anyway, it's good V didn't go for symmetric retribution. Soulbinding is too cruel for someone I want to like. (I'd kind of sympathize the ABD if she hadn't threatened to do this to V's family. After all they did kill her child.)

[zimmerwald1915]

Personally, I think the alternative plan the imp presented was crap. I'm quite sure, without her pride, V would have thought the whole thing through and still rented hir soul to evil.
Maybe it would have taken a bit longer, but in the end, V would have done the same.
First, it was the archfiends that presented the plan, not the imp. Second, it was a truly terrible plan, which relied on several people behaving in exactly the correct manner in an improbably short time, in a comic where both efficiency and "correct" responses have been sadly lacking. But it was designed to be a just plausible way to save V's family without V taking much direct involvement. It was also presented as the only alternative...and then V was given a time limit.

Regardless of the plausibility of the fiends' plan, the fact remains that V believed it a viable choice. And that casts V's decision in a new light. Rather than choosing between saving her family or not, in his mind the choice became between saving her family or letting someone else do it. And the latter outcome was one V could not accept. This is made quite clear in the comic. What choices V would have made if she had been sober, if the fiends had not given her a time limit are irrelevant. However, the fact that, according to you, she would have made the same decision even without the pressure does not change her reason. It merely makes her rationalization sound stronger to her.

[zimmerwald1915]

Sure she wouldn't have been content with killing someone who is important to V?
Was Inky really that important to V? Even before the splice, V treated Inky like a typical Victorian paterfamilias treated a servant. During the splice, he treated her and the kids like a paramedic at an MCI treats yellow-tags.


Anyway, it's good V didn't go for symmetric retribution. Soulbinding is too cruel for someone I want to like. (I'd kind of sympathize the ABD if she hadn't threatened to do this to V's family. After all they did kill her child.)
It's hard to soul-bind hundreds of thousands of souls half a world away from their bodies, not to mention that it would take more spell slots than the four assembled casters put together had at their disposal. Besides, to V, there was nobody left to pay for a rez, so soul-binding was not necessary (this is why he didn't use the ABD's scrolls of Soul Bind on her, though her corpse was near at hand).

[Cizak]

@Cizak: What I wanted to say was that if there were no children, the dragon still could have threatened V's mate and the story would have taken place.

Uh, yeah. And if the Snarl didn't exist, that wouldn't have been the plot for Oots. But it is. So it's relevant. Saying "If X wasn't there Y would've been important instead, so X isn't important" makes no sense. ABD threatened V's kids, so V's kids are important to the story.

[Dazdya]

I would like to point people's attention to Durkon.

The one thing we learn from Origins is that there's a prophecy that says Durkon's return to the dwarven lands will signal disaster. Durkon doesn't know this, so he has never connected it with the plot. However, it is a piece of information about him that is unconnected to anything else we know of.

What are the odds of that? In this comic?

I always assumed that the giant meant that.

[Nimrod's Son]

The fact that Vaarsuvius has kids hasn't affected the story in any way and so far is pretty irrelevant.
I'm not sure I really know where to start with this. V's relationship (or lack thereof) with his family is central to Vaarsuvius' character, yet it was kept entirely secret for well over six hundred strips. Not to mention that the fallout from the scene where the kids were introduced is sure to still be felt for some time yet.


So it is possible that that little reference to a character having a connection to the larger plot was having to do with Haley and Girard.
Sure, ignore the obvious answer that's already happened and instead assume it'll be resolved at X point in the future by having YET ANOTHER instance of a long-lost relative turning up. :smalltongue:

[Deliverance]

Regardless of the plausibility of the fiends' plan, the fact remains that V believed it a viable choice. And that casts V's decision in a new light. Rather than choosing between saving her family or not, in his mind the choice became between saving her family or letting someone else do it. And the latter outcome was one V could not accept. This is made quite clear in the comic.

Strictly speaking, this is not true - though it is certainly possible that it was Rich's intention to display it that way. If going by the contents of the comic, however...

As evidence that V believed it was a viable choice, we have only that V did not make his choice of red or blue ball immediately, suggesting that he was choosing between the two. At most that suggests that V believe both of the choices have the possibility of succeding, not that both will succeed or that they are equally viable. Who knows, it may even have been the moments of reflection on the viability of each plan that posters claim V never had when they pull the solely for pride card - or it may have been last-moment second thoughts on renting his soul, who knows.

He may have believed that the alternative plan was perfectly viable, he may not, we have no way of knowing - we only know which he chose to go with.

We also don't know, as you claim, that in V's mind it is the choice between saving his family and having somebody else do it. We know that that is how the fiends presented it before V's choice, but whether that is V's belief or not in the moment of choosing, we don't know.

[theNater]

We also don't know, as you claim, that in V's mind it is the choice between saving his family and having somebody else do it. We know that that is how the fiends presented it before V's choice, but whether that is V's belief or not in the moment of choosing, we don't know.
We do know, however, what V does when given the opportunity to prove the choice was made out of concern for family. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0642.html)

We also know how V reacts when the Order of the Stick is reunited by agencies other than V's incredible powers. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0646.html)

We also know that Xykon, who is probably very familiar with both power-hungry spellcasters and knights on valiant quests, identifies V as the former. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0653.html)

We know V is arrogant. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0188.html) We know V is power-hungry. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0331.html)

But no, we aren't explicitly told, in the moment, exactly what V is thinking.

[martianmister]

This thread is about who exactly, Girard or V? :smallconfused:

[Deliverance]

We do know, however, what V does when given the opportunity to prove the choice was made out of concern for family. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0642.html)

Yup, when his family has been saved, V chooses not to give up his borrowed power but to pursue further goals. Inkyrius chooses to view this as saving them not being V's primary goal. Inkyrius' line of thinking is entirely reasonable if the most important thing V should have to be concerned about after the defeat of the dragon is his family, which based on knowledge available to Inkyrius should be the case.

But given Inkyrius lacking information about what is going on, it is a false dilemma. V's actions proves that he does not, for whatever reason, put reconciliation with his family above the fate of his friends and the defeat of Xykon, something which is connected with averting a terrible fate for the whole world - it does not prove that he didn't make the choice for the sake of his family, since the original reason for starting doing something is not necessarily the same as the reason for continuing doing it.



We also know how V reacts when the Order of the Stick is reunited by agencies other than V's incredible powers. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0646.html)

V hates being shown up - devil's bargain or not. :smallbiggrin:



We also know that Xykon, who is probably very familiar with both power-hungry spellcasters and knights on valiant quests, identifies V as the former. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0653.html)

First of all there is absolutely no law that says that the two are mutually exclusive or that the two options sufficiently cover the possibilities for going after Xykon in the first place, second of all we also know that Xykon, while genre savvy, has a tendency to view things through his own eyes (or lack of same) where the gentler emotions are concerned. As for instance in SoD,

When he is sure he'll draw out Durokan by threatening to chop up Lirian's zombie; He does draw out Durokan and sees it as affirmation of his belief, but Durkoan really came forth because the location of Lirian's soul was revealed. Xykon fundamentally misunderstood Durokan's motives.
Is V power-hungry? Definitely! Does he relish the chance to prove his arcane supremacy? Beyond a doubt! Does that mean that that is all that motivates him? It might, but it does not follow. Xykon may believe that it does.



We know V is arrogant. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0188.html) We know V is power-hungry. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0331.html)

We sure do! We also know that V cares for his family (that's what fuels the railroad-V plot after all) and his friends (see e.g. V's reaction when Elan gets captured by bandits).



But no, we aren't explicitly told, in the moment, exactly what V is thinking.
Exactly, and that is why we cannot conclude, as some have done, that V chose purely out of pride and that he didn't consider the merits of the two plans proposed to him. Did pride and ambition influence his choice on the island? Entirely possible and I'd say likely; Heck, for Rick to be able to play the "for all the wrong reasons" card in one of the more stupid railroad plots we can even assume them to be the major influences even if it wasn't documented in the comic - but we still cannot conclude that it was done purely out of pride without considering the merits of the two plans.