View Full Version : Help understanding binder optimization (3.5)

2011-02-02, 01:01 PM
Hey there,

We're about to start a level 12 game focusing on tier 2 & 3 classes and trying to get a decent level of optimization. My friend has decided he wants to try out playing a binder for this.

I want to make sure he is able to hold his own and doesn't become very versatile but ultimately ineffective during things like combat. I am taking a look through the binder's handbook and trying to learn what I can.

I"ve noticed that most of the combat combos suggested mostly involve other classes like swashbuckler, scout, dervish, ect. There are also anima mage combos, and thankfully a few that are simply vestige combinations.

If he is to meet the goal of being able to not struggle beside well built ToB classes, sorcs, ect does he need to specialize in one of the extra class combos? Should he go anima mage? Will the combos of stacking SA and Sudden Strike and whatnot be enough?

Any tips or suggestions? :)

2011-02-02, 02:45 PM
level 12?

meet zceryll. (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/frcc/20070718) telepathy and the pseudonatural template (CArc, not ELH; the ELH one is broken on PCs) are fun, and summon alien is brilliant.

anyway, Consilidated Binder Handbook. (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=137.0)

there's also the UMD without UMD path by binding karsus.

2011-02-02, 03:27 PM
There are so many variable so it is hard to predict.
Only binder, especially with, zceryll, seems like it should be fine.
I'd say it will require him rather than you doing the research though.

2011-02-02, 06:55 PM
Binder is very versatile so yes you can go binder 12 and be fine. It is more the combination of vestiges that lead to power and the fact you can change it every day to suit your needs. You can add things such as classes that give you full BAB and pact making and that can be a good idea but binder 12 alone is viable.

2011-02-02, 07:46 PM
Binders have to aim towards two things at once, kinda like Incarnates do. They want to focus on one or two primary roles (like "melee basher" or "scout") without specializing to the point of making Binding irrelevant. Basically, you need to define a level of "good enough" for your primary focus, then give yourself tricks that will be effective no matter what you do.

I mean, you CAN ignore your versatility and just use one vestige all day every day, but that's kinda selling the class short even if it works.

2011-02-02, 08:38 PM
Any tips or suggestions? :)

Straight Binder - or Binder/KotSS - is more than enough for him to keep up with ToB classes. Sorcerer is another matter but I'm guessing you already knew that.

I'll provide better advice when I get home from work.

2011-02-02, 08:42 PM
Do you have something specific in mind for your friends binder? Binders are so varied (and unless you pick specific feats they can change what they want to do every day) that it is hard to optimize them with no flavor or style descriptions.

For instance if you take solid and versatile feats you can choose to change your combat focus by changing your vestiges for the day. If you pick feats that are powerful and specialized then we will need to pick vestiges that directly compliment those feats.

2011-02-02, 08:53 PM
It slices! It dices! It makes julienne fries (that ignore SR)!

2011-02-02, 09:12 PM
Maybe these:



would add something good to it?