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Zodiac
2011-02-03, 11:03 PM
So, my next campaign is going to be a gestalt campaign, and I've wanted to play a melee warlock for a while and having a second class would make it much easier to do. Also since the warlock isn't very stat dependent it would help avoid MAD.

However, I don't have much of an idea of how I want to go about it. So I would like to know what race and classes would be most helpful. All sources are pretty much available and campaign starts at level 9.

Right now for classes I am looking at:

Most Likely:
Ranger/Fighter/Monk (dip)
Rogue/Factotum (to be a sneaky warlock)

Fun, but don't know if will work:

Warblade/Crusader/Swordsage (maneuvers are fun, though it may be difficult to take advantage of both maneuvers and invocations)

Incarnate/Totemist (as much as I like incarnum, I feel that it wouldn't benefit the warlock too much)

Binder (I don't plan on going hellfire warlock, but vestiges are fun)

Other ideas are welcome too.:smallsmile:

Dusk Eclipse
2011-02-03, 11:09 PM
I really like to pair Warlock with either swordsage (for sneakness and skills) or warblade (for pure melee power).

Just be sure to take Eldritch claws (Dragon three hundred something) which gives you a pair of claws (natural weapons) that deal your eldritch blast damage, and since they are weapons you can use all your maneuvers, stances, with them.

As far as invocations go... I would be tempted with the +6 to various skills (leaps and bounds is great when combined with the jumping maneuvers from tiger claw), invisibility, and movement related ones (flee the scene, fell flight, etc).

ShneekeyTheLost
2011-02-03, 11:15 PM
Eldritch Claws are in Dragon Magazine, and as such, many GM's won't allow them as 'homebrew'.

Eldritch Glaive, is more viable, if you can find a way to do more attacks with them.

Rogue is always a good way to increase damage output, assuming sneak attack potential. A dip into Swordsage for Island of Blades always helps with this.

Depending on how your GM does Level Adjustment, you could try Pixie. Something like this:

Warlock6/Mindbender1/Hellfire Warlock2//Pixie4/Rogue5

would work swimmingly. Not only do you get the sneak attack, uncanny dodge, and evasion from Rogue, you gain a LOT of benefits for effectively nothing. And there's several invocations you simply don't need anymore.

Mindbender is so you can grab Mindsight at level 9, which pwns completely. It also lets you pick up Hellfire Blast so you can get into Hellfire Warlock. Next level, obviously finish it off, then dip Binder for Nab, then go into Legacy Champion to cap.

If you don't want to go HFW, the dip into Mindbender still works, then get a two-level dip in Chameleon for the floating feat. Why? Because Extra Invocation that you can change out daily is made of win. Also lets you pick up situationally useful things like Mortalbane, Empower SLA, and once you hit Warlock 12 (at 14th character level), various Craft Magic Item feats to be your own magic-mart!

avr
2011-02-03, 11:17 PM
There's always doing a lockdown style of tank (Crusader, Stand Still etc.). You tell the enemy to stop right there, then you blast them. Or Eldritch Glaive them when you get that invocation.

Zodiac
2011-02-03, 11:23 PM
I really like to pair Warlock with either swordsage (for sneakness and skills) or warblade (for pure melee power).

Just be sure to take Eldritch claws (Dragon three hundred something) which gives you a pair of claws (natural weapons) that deal your eldritch blast damage, and since they are weapons you can use all your maneuvers, stances, with them.



My DM already ok'd the claws and the grappling thing from Dragon, but do the claws work that way? From what I understand blast shapes like eldritch glaive don't allow maneuvers to work due to some strange wording.



Rogue is always a good way to increase damage output, assuming sneak attack potential. A dip into Swordsage for Island of Blades always helps with this.

Depending on how your GM does Level Adjustment, you could try Pixie. Something like this:

Warlock6//Pixie4/Rogue2

would work swimmingly. Not only do you get the sneak attack and evasion from Rogue, you gain a LOT of benefits for effectively nothing. And there's several invocations you simply don't need anymore.

My DM hates monstrous PCs, so pixie isn't a possibility.:smallfrown:

That said, that is exactly the sort of thing I am looking for in a Warlock//Rogue build, and if I go that route I would definitely dip swordsage.

EDIT: Mindbender and chameleon look really good, what books are they in?

@avr: I considered a tank and doing things like blast shape: doom and repelling blast, but that build would rely more on crusader than warlock, and I want the character to focus on warlock.

Dusk Eclipse
2011-02-03, 11:28 PM
The claws are not a shape, they are a feat which gives you a pair of natural attacks, hence they can be used with maneuvers. Also upon further reading they say you also deal your normal unarmed strike damage, so I suggest (even more) an unarmed swordsage//warlock.

MeeposFire
2011-02-03, 11:30 PM
Yea if you are going to combine TOB with warlock you have to go claws. Glaive will not work with most (or probably any) maneuvers and it maxes out at 4 attacks (for having 16+bab) and things like haste will not help it.

Zodiac
2011-02-03, 11:35 PM
The claws work with maneuvers, and since they're natural weapons, iterative attacks don't matter, so strikes would be great.

I'll talk to my DM about unarmed swordsage, any suggestions for how it should look and what I should give up?

Also, since ToB blends well with other classes, should I dip into 2 levels of monk or a couple levels of rogue, or should I stick it out with swordsage?

ShneekeyTheLost
2011-02-03, 11:36 PM
Mindbender is in Complete Arcane. One level dip gives you 100' Telepathy. This qualifies you for Mindsight feat, which lets you see any non-mindless being within your telepathy range. It's from Lords of Madness.

I forget where Chameleon is from, but you have to be Human to take it. The fun part about a two-level dip is the floating feat that you can reassign daily.

Dusk Eclipse
2011-02-03, 11:38 PM
Mindbender is in Complete Arcane. One level dip gives you 100' Telepathy. This qualifies you for Mindsight feat, which lets you see any non-mindless being within your telepathy range. It's from Lords of Madness.


I don't think that will be a problem


My DM already ok'd the claws and the grappling thing from Dragon, but do the claws work that way? From what I understand blast shapes like eldritch glaive don't allow maneuvers to work due to some strange wording.

MeeposFire
2011-02-03, 11:50 PM
Mindbender is in Complete Arcane. One level dip gives you 100' Telepathy. This qualifies you for Mindsight feat, which lets you see any non-mindless being within your telepathy range. It's from Lords of Madness.

I forget where Chameleon is from, but you have to be Human to take it. The fun part about a two-level dip is the floating feat that you can reassign daily.

Human or changeling.

Zodiac
2011-02-04, 12:03 AM
I've decided to take swordsage for the other side, should I take a monk dip and/or some levels in rogue?

Dusk Eclipse
2011-02-04, 12:11 AM
Monk 2 for invisible fist ACF (Exemplars of Evil) would work nicely I think.

Waker
2011-02-04, 12:16 AM
Wildshape Ranger/Master of Many Forms on one side and Warlock on the other side would make for an interesting melee warlock. Combining Eldritch Claws would make wildshaping more fun. By level 9 you could have four levels of MoMF which would let you wildshape into animals, giants, monstrous humanoids and fey, ranging from tiny to large.
"I transform into an invisible flying troll who gets to deal eldritch blast damage whenever I claw/rend."

Zodiac
2011-02-04, 12:21 AM
Monk 2 for invisible fist ACF (Exemplars of Evil) would work nicely I think.

Don't have Exemplars of Evil.:smallfrown:


Wildshape Ranger/Master of Many Forms on one side and Warlock on the other side would make for an interesting melee warlock. Combining Eldritch Claws would make wildshaping more fun. By level 9 you could have four levels of MoMF which would let you wildshape into animals, giants, monstrous humanoids and fey, ranging from tiny to large.
"I transform into an invisible flying troll who gets to deal eldritch blast damage whenever I claw/rend."

I know somebody else in my group has his eye on MoMF so as awesome as it sounds I'll have to pass.

EDIT: Argh. Just realized that monks have to be lawful and warlocks have to be chaotic and/or evil, but evil isn't an option.

Waker
2011-02-04, 12:29 AM
I just felt like throwing the MoMF out there, since I find it to be a good class. So what does the rest of your team look like so far? Knowing what they are playing might help us get a better idea of what you could play.

Anyways, just to say something silly try going with a Warlock/Artificer. Between those two classes you are the unmatched master of UMD.

Dusk Eclipse
2011-02-04, 12:32 AM
Rogue 3 (for penetrating strike ACF) and maybe Spirit Lion Totem 1(for pounce and whirling frenzy)/Swordsage 4 is nice

I suggest combining Bounding Assault maneuver with pounce and Raging/dancing mongoose, with insightful strike (diamond mind) tacked on.

Zodiac
2011-02-04, 12:36 AM
I just felt like throwing the MoMF out there, since I find it to be a good class. So what does the rest of your team look like so far? Knowing what they are playing might help us get a better idea of what you could play.

Anyways, just to say something silly try going with a Warlock/Artificer. Between those two classes you are the unmatched master of UMD.

It was a good idea though, and one I'll file away for later.
I actually dislike artificers (love the concept, but the execution... :smallyuk:)

Good point though, should've mentioned the others' characters.

dragonborn elf warblade//sorcerer
gnome wildshape ranger/Master of Many Forms//?
human wizard//factotum
human cloistered cleric//crusader
??? totemist//fighter 2/barbarian 2/?

EDIT X2:
??? Spellthief//?

EDIT: What's penetrating strike from?

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2011-02-04, 12:40 AM
Check out the Enlightened Spirit prestige class in Complete Mage. You can go something like Warlock 20// X 5/ Enlightened Spirit 10/ Y 5 and everything it grants will stack with your Warlock advancement, including the increased EB damage. I'd use Ranger both before and after Enlightened Spirit, and use the Strong-Arm fighting style from Dragon 326, which grants Power Attack, Improved Sunder, and Great Cleave at the 2nd/6th/11th levels. That way you could put Strength at 10 and put a high stat on Dex with Weapon Finesse. Use Mystic Ranger from Dragon 336 if possible, which gets significantly better spellcasting and with Sword of the Arcane Order will be able to use Wizard spells as well.

Get Ability Focus (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsterFeats.htm#abilityFocus) for Eldritch Blast and any Eldritch Essence you use will get +2 DC. I'd use Eldritch Glaive with Beshadowed Blast, or Spirit Blast from Enlightened Spirit if fighting undead. Enlightened Spirit grants Celestial Flight so there's no need to spend any of your limited invocations known on Fell Flight or Spiderwalk. I'd start out with See the Unseen and either Baleful Utterance or Summon Swarm, along with Flee the Scene. At your next level you can get Eldritch Cone from Enlightened Spirit, which is Greater, so your new invocation via Warlock could also be Greater so I'd get Chilling Tentacles. Both Noxious Blast and Vitriolic Blast are good to have, and if you get into the really high levels you should check out the epic warlock feats (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ei/20061027a) and pick your higher level invocations based on what you want to qualify for.

Waker
2011-02-04, 12:42 AM
Well, looking at that list it seems you have a pretty heavy front-line. Assuming your wizard/factotum friend doesn't go the skillmonkey route you could try Warlock/Beguiler. Or a Warlock/Spellthief would be very interesting. I actually like the Warlock/Spellthief idea the most since your eldritch blast can deliver sneak attack damage to flat-footed target, enabling you to steal spells.

Zodiac
2011-02-04, 12:49 AM
Whoops. :smallredface:

I forgot one more guy actually:

??? Spellthief//?

I'm not too keen on Enlightened Spirit (don't care too much for fluff, and it contradicts my character concept, and I'd prefer more flexibility in choosing my invocations), and I'm pretty sure in gestalt the PrC can only be on the side that fulfills the prerequisites (3d6 eldritch blast in this case).

Waker
2011-02-04, 01:05 AM
Ok, so you have another guy who could potentially be a skillmonkey. And including yourself you have a 7-man team?
Yeah I'm really scraping the bottom of the barrel as far as good ideas that haven't already been mentioned yet. Warlock/Hexblade might be workable (assuming you use the unofficial update) and it is a pairing that meshes well fluffwise.

Penetrating Strike is from Dungeonscape.

Zodiac
2011-02-04, 01:11 AM
Ok, so you have another guy who could potentially be a skillmonkey. And including yourself you have a 7-man team?
Yeah I'm really scraping the bottom of the barrel as far as good ideas that haven't already been mentioned yet. Warlock/Hexblade might be workable (assuming you use the unofficial update) and it is a pairing that meshes well fluffwise.

Penetrating Strike is from Dungeonscape.

Yeah, its the biggest group I've been in, but it'll probably work out since the DM uses timers to keep combat going, and all of us are interested enough to be involved in roleplaying, and we tend not to let things get dragged down by IC arguments.

I'm not worrying too much about finding a niche, since the DM tends to make us have to deal with multiple things at once (sometimes even splitting the party) so overlap is good. Plus no matter what happens I still have UMD.

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2011-02-04, 01:14 AM
Whoops. :smallredface:

I forgot one more guy actually:

??? Spellthief//?

I'm not too keen on Enlightened Spirit (don't care too much for fluff, and contradicts my character concept), and I'm pretty sure in gestalt the prC can only be on the side that fulfills the prerequisites (3d6 eldritch blast in this case).

So, what's to stop you from going Warlock 5/ Enlightened Spirit 10// Ranger 5/ Warlock 10? Whichever 'side' something is on is completely irrelevant, the sides only exist when you list out what class levels the character has. A Wizard 3// Factotum 3 is no different from a Wizard 1/ Factotum 1/ Wizard 1// Factotum 1/ Wizard 1/ Factotum 1. You could instead list it as Wizard+Factotum 3 and it wouldn't make any difference. Similarly, you could list your character's classes as Warlock+Ranger 5/ Warlock+Enlightened Spirit X, and there's no 'sides' at all.

Enlightened Spirit is actually a very weak prestige class, but it ends up being one of the strongest gestalt choices available for a warlock. Use Hellbread (Spirit) from FCII for your race, say he was a Richard (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fcbazH6aE2g) but after the torches-and-pitchforks succeeded he's had a change of heart and become a champion of (ugh...) preserving the innocent and a shining example of, er... how to gleefully slaughter evil creatures. Get Darkness as one of your invocations for making hide checks and because you'll be able to see right through it at 12th level, and pick up Mindsight (LoM) at 15th level. Mechanically speaking, this is probably the best route to take with a gestalt warlock. You can just go around nearly committing unspeakably evil acts but then reminding yourself that your soul will be better off if you 'stick to the deal' or whatever. It could make for an extremely interesting and fun character.

The Rabbler
2011-02-04, 01:18 AM
I'm insulted that no one has mentioned incarnate. even a single dip will get you a bunch of soulmelds with some nice passive benefits. Also, one of the binds (strongheart vest?) is considered the best way of getting around the con penalty for using hellfire warlock, though it can also be picked up via feat.

Also, if you want to get tons of hellfire damage, you can grab some skill tricks and the uncanny trickster PrC (complete scoundrel) which, along with free skill tricks, effectively gives you two extra levels worth of class features of another class you have. Pick hellfire warlock and you can hit +10d6 hellfire eldritch blast damage.

Dusk Eclipse
2011-02-04, 01:28 AM
I'm insulted that no one has mentioned incarnate. even a single dip will get you a bunch of soulmelds with some nice passive benefits. Also, one of the binds (strongheart vest?) is considered the best way of getting around the con penalty for using hellfire warlock, though it can also be picked up via feat.

Also, if you want to get tons of hellfire damage, you can grab some skill tricks and the uncanny trickster PrC (complete scoundrel) which, along with free skill tricks, effectively gives you two extra levels worth of class features of another class you have. Pick hellfire warlock and you can hit +10d6 hellfire eldritch blast damage.

:smallconfused:.... but the strongheart vest is the most debated way to negate the con damage... since it works like DR to abilit damage, it is perfectly arguable to say it enters into the "if you are immune to con damage, you can't use hellfire" clause... Naberius healing said damage is perfectly allowed by RAW.

MeeposFire
2011-02-04, 01:30 AM
DON"T MENTION THE VEST WITH HELFIRE IT ENDS THREADS!!!

Seriously though it can.:smallwink:

Incarnate is good for all sorts of reasons though. Even a few levels is wonderful even combined with binder.

Waker
2011-02-04, 01:31 AM
Incarnate/Totemist (as much as I like incarnum, I feel that it wouldn't benefit the warlock too much)
Binder (I don't plan on going hellfire warlock, but vestiges are fun)
Original poster has some comments on that.

MeeposFire
2011-02-04, 01:33 AM
Soulmelds can be great with edlritch claws. For instance using mauling gauntlets you can get 2X essentia on your unarmed strikes and get that bonus twice using beast strike eldritch claws.

The Rabbler
2011-02-04, 01:39 AM
Original poster has some comments on that.

That's what I get for skimming. Now I feel silly.:smallredface:

Kuma Kode
2011-02-04, 01:42 AM
Check out the Enlightened Spirit prestige class in Complete Mage.

No.

The class is a great concept. The execution makes it essentially unplayable. It does not increase your invoker level, and so you do not gain new invocations or eldritch blast damage. Instead, it manually increases eldritch blast as a class feature, and force-feeds you invocations that are mostly refluffed versions of ones you could have gotten anyway.

The worst part is that the ones that are unique are centered around fighting undead and evil outsiders.... except that after 10 levels of that prestige class not increasing your caster level you will be unable to overcome challenge-appropriate Spell Resistance, which is rather ubiquitous on evil outsiders above, what, CR 8?

Though I am curious... why do maneuvers not function with Eldritch Glaive? It seems to just be a temporary weapon made of your eldritch blast. You even get AoOs and multiple attacks with it.

Dusk Eclipse
2011-02-04, 01:51 AM
It is something to do with the text of weapon-like spells; which I believe eldritch glaive enters into that category. To be hones I don't remember the details well... I think it was somewhat discussed on Shinken's guide to melee warlock (incidentally OP if you haven't check that guide, do so ASAP it has some really good advice).

I think it has something to do with the fact that eldritch glaive is a full round action not a full attack, that precludes the uses of maneuvers.

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2011-02-04, 01:55 AM
No.

The class is a great concept. The execution makes it essentially unplayable. It does not increase your invoker level, and so you do not gain new invocations or eldritch blast damage. Instead, it manually increases eldritch blast as a class feature, and force-feeds you invocations that are mostly refluffed versions of ones you could have gotten anyway.

You missed the biggest point I was making:
Gestalt next to more Warlock levels everything stacks.
Warlock increases your caster level and continues to improve your EB damage, Enlightened Spirit's bonuses to your EB damage stack with it. You continue gaining invocations normally via Warlock, Enlightened Spirit gives you extra unique invocations in addition to those. For a gestalt warlock, going Warlock 20// X 5/ Enlightened Spirit 10/ Y 5 is an even stronger choice than going Hellfire Warlock + negating the Con damage via healing or DR.

MeeposFire
2011-02-04, 01:56 AM
No.

The class is a great concept. The execution makes it essentially unplayable. It does not increase your invoker level, and so you do not gain new invocations or eldritch blast damage. Instead, it manually increases eldritch blast as a class feature, and force-feeds you invocations that are mostly refluffed versions of ones you could have gotten anyway.

The worst part is that the ones that are unique are centered around fighting undead and evil outsiders.... except that after 10 levels of that prestige class not increasing your caster level you will be unable to overcome challenge-appropriate Spell Resistance, which is rather ubiquitous on evil outsiders above, what, CR 8?

Though I am curious... why do maneuvers not function with Eldritch Glaive? It seems to just be a temporary weapon made of your eldritch blast. You even get AoOs and multiple attacks with it.

Enlightened was being used on the other side of the gestalt so that you would be getting warlock levels on one side and additional eldritch blasts and invocations on the other. If allowed by the DM it would actually be very good. Notice you are correct on it being bad on a normal warlock.

Now for eldritch glaive there are several reasons

1) Most maneuvers require a weapon and eldritch glaive does not create a weapon. It may act similarly to a weapon but it is not.

2) Glaive says you take a full round action to use the invocation. This invocation then says you can make a number of attacks based upon your BAB. It does not allow for any bonus attacks from things such as haste since you are not using a full attack action (which while being a full round action is not the same).

3) Even if it was a weapon you still could not use it with strikes since it takes a full round action to use which means you have no actions left to activate a strike. Though this is moot since eldritch glaive is not a weapon.

Kuma Kode
2011-02-04, 02:22 AM
Warlock increases your caster level and continues to improve your EB damage, Enlightened Spirit's bonuses to your EB damage stack with it. It does not. Gestalt states that if two classes grant the same ability (in this case, increases to eldritch blast damage), you use the faster of the two progressions. Rogue//Assassin likewise does not stack its sneak attack. Warlock//Enlightened Spirit pretty much just gives you a few extra invocations.

EDIT: Ah, yeah, Eldritch Glaive does have some funky wording that would prohibit it from being usable.

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2011-02-04, 02:29 AM
It does not. Gestalt states that if two classes grant the same ability (in this case, increases to eldritch blast damage), you use the faster of the two progressions. Rogue//Assassin likewise does not stack its sneak attack. Warlock//Enlightened Spirit pretty much just gives you a few extra invocations.

You're incorrect there. +1 level of existing class wouldn't stack with +1 level of that class, but +1d6 damage and +1 level of class advancement are separate.

Example: Cleric//Heirophant (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/prestigeClasses/hierophant.htm). You get +1 level of Cleric spellcasting ability at that level. Heirophant grants you +1 caster level at each level. The +1 level of Cleric spellcasting increases your caster level along with your spellcasting ability, but it is not independently a +1 caster level; the +1 caster level from Heirophant would stack with it because they are separate abilities.

Example: Sorcerer//Dragon Disciple. You get +1 level of Sorcerer spellcasting ability at that level. Dragon Disciple grants you +1 spell/day of your highest level spells at that level. The +1 level of Sorcerer spellcasting increases your spells/day along with your spellcasting ability, but that is not independently a +1 spell/day; the +1 spell/day from Dragon Disciple would stack with it because they are separate abilities.

Similarly, you have Warlock//Enlightened Spirit. You get +1 level of Warlock invocations and EB at that level. Enlightened Spirit grants you +1d6 EB damage at certain levels. The +1 level of Warlock invocations and EB may increase your EB damage, but that is not independently a +1d6 damage; the +1d6 damage from Enlightened Spirit would stack with it because they are separate abilities.

The Rabbler
2011-02-04, 02:34 AM
eldritch glaive, IIRC, requires a full round action to use. This means that you don't full attack with it, instead you take the full round action to make what is mechanically similar to a full attack but doesn't allow for extra attacks gained via haste etc. Since you can only use it via a full round action, you can't use it for maneuvers as using a maneuver is it's own action.

EDIT: I think AoOs are explicitly allowed to be used in the feat description.

Kuma Kode
2011-02-04, 03:03 AM
Example: Cleric//[URL="http://www.d20srd.org/srd/prestigeClasses/hierophant.htm"]Similarly, you have Warlock//Enlightened Spirit. You get +1 level of Warlock invocations and EB at that level. Enlightened Spirit grants you +1d6 EB damage at certain levels. The +1 level of Warlock invocations and EB may increase your EB damage, but that is not independently a +1d6 damage; the +1d6 damage from Enlightened Spirit would stack with it because they are separate abilities. I am not "incorrect," I am reading it differently. The fact that your interpretation has an internal logic and I disagree does not make me wrong.

It does not matter if the eldritch blast damage increase is pre-packaged with something else. Your idea that because +1 cleric caster level packaged with new spell slots is fundamentally different than a +1 cleric caster level is an assumption. An increase to your cleric caster level is an increase to your caster level, in my book. Similarly, an increase to your eldritch blast damage is an increase to your eldritch blast damage. Gestalt prohibits dual-class prestige classes partly to avoid this, and the fact that it states two instances of the same feature (in this case, cleric caster level/eldritch blast damage progression) is to use the better of the two, not stack them.

Without a definite list of what can and cannot stack with gestalt, there really isn't any RAW way to figure this out. I read them as the same thing, and that they wouldn't stack. You read that they come from technically different sources that have the same effect, and so they would stack.

So it depends on how your DM reads
Class features that two classes share (such as uncanny dodge) accrue at the rate of the faster class. Unfortunately, gestalt has nothing about how to work with spells and caster levels.

As can be seen, your suggestion that Warlock//Enlightened Spirit is viable is heavily left to interpretation of the rules and intent of gestalt, and so may not be useful.

true_shinken
2011-02-04, 07:04 AM
Soulmelds can be great with edlritch claws. For instance using mauling gauntlets you can get 2X essentia on your unarmed strikes and get that bonus twice using beast strike eldritch claws.

That is just evil!

And everyone, repeat after me, here we go: eldritch glaive is not a weapon.

ShneekeyTheLost
2011-02-04, 08:47 AM
You're incorrect there. +1 level of existing class wouldn't stack with +1 level of that class, but +1d6 damage and +1 level of class advancement are separate.

Example: Cleric//Heirophant (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/prestigeClasses/hierophant.htm). You get +1 level of Cleric spellcasting ability at that level. Heirophant grants you +1 caster level at each level. The +1 level of Cleric spellcasting increases your caster level along with your spellcasting ability, but it is not independently a +1 caster level; the +1 caster level from Heirophant would stack with it because they are separate abilities.

Example: Sorcerer//Dragon Disciple. You get +1 level of Sorcerer spellcasting ability at that level. Dragon Disciple grants you +1 spell/day of your highest level spells at that level. The +1 level of Sorcerer spellcasting increases your spells/day along with your spellcasting ability, but that is not independently a +1 spell/day; the +1 spell/day from Dragon Disciple would stack with it because they are separate abilities.

Similarly, you have Warlock//Enlightened Spirit. You get +1 level of Warlock invocations and EB at that level. Enlightened Spirit grants you +1d6 EB damage at certain levels. The +1 level of Warlock invocations and EB may increase your EB damage, but that is not independently a +1d6 damage; the +1d6 damage from Enlightened Spirit would stack with it because they are separate abilities.

Flaw with your logic:

Dragon Disciple gives bonus spells known. This is different from spellcasting.

Enlightened Spirit gives bonuses to Eldritch Blast. This is identical to the class feature from Warlock.

Progressions of the same type progress at the faster level. Which, in this case, nets you a total of +1d6, since the ES does slightly gain damage faster.

Zodiac
2011-02-04, 10:56 AM
Thanks for the help. :smallsmile:

I don't think I will go with enlightened spirit (IMHO while it may save me on some invocations, I can get those abilities via other means, and I'm not convinced a at all that gestalt allows both warlock and ES to boost eldritch blast simultaneously, since it doesn't allow say Rogue//Something else with sneak attack to stack).

I was wondering however, whether I should choose warblade or swordsage for the other side. While unarmed swordsage can improve unarmed attacks, I feel full BAB and a d12 hit die would be very useful (I'm essentially worrying that without a weapon bonus and full BAB that I wouldn't be able to actually land a hit consistently).

true_shinken
2011-02-04, 11:03 AM
I was wondering however, whether I should choose warblade or swordsage for the other side. While unarmed swordsage can improve unarmed attacks, I feel full BAB and a d12 hit die would be very useful (I'm essentially worrying that without a weapon bonus and full BAB that I wouldn't be able to actually land a hit consistently).
Go for Warblade. The better chassis is totally totally worth it.
Also,why are you without a weapon bonus? What about the Necklace of Natural Attacks?

Zodiac
2011-02-04, 11:12 AM
Go for Warblade. The better chassis is totally totally worth it.
Also,why are you without a weapon bonus? What about the Necklace of Natural Attacks?

I forgot about the Necklace. :smallredface:

What maneuvers/schools would be good to choose?
Also, since I am not going unarmed swordsage, how should I pick up the monk's unarmed attack progression? Or is it unnecessary due to the EB damage?

true_shinken
2011-02-04, 11:17 AM
I forgot about the Necklace. :smallredface:

What maneuvers/schools would be good to choose?
Also, since I am not going unarmed swordsage, how should I pick up the monk's unarmed attack progression? Or is it unnecessary due to the EB damage?

Superior Unarmed Strike already works fine, I believe.
As for your other questions, they are answered in my melee warlock handbook, check it out.

Zodiac
2011-02-04, 11:20 AM
Superior Unarmed Strike already works fine, I believe.
As for your other questions, they are answered in my melee warlock handbook, check it out.

Oh thanks. :smallsmile:

I'll check out your handbook too.

Off topic, but for incarnum, do chakra binds count towards the total amount of meldshapes possible? (DM wants to know for another player)

Psyborg
2011-02-04, 12:51 PM
Off topic, but for incarnum, do chakra binds count towards the total amount of meldshapes possible? (DM wants to know for another player)

No. Chakra binds are limited separately from soulmelds. (And you don't even have to use your chakra binds to bind soulmelds at all; you could bind magic items to the chakras instead and leave all your soulmelds unbound.)

Kuma Kode
2011-02-04, 03:06 PM
And everyone, repeat after me, here we go: eldritch glaive is not a weapon. I got that. I was away from books when I asked so I didn't have access to its funky wording.

true_shinken
2011-02-05, 12:42 PM
I got that. I was away from books when I asked so I didn't have access to its funky wording.

Sorry, I wasn't being specific to you. It's just some kind of a personal mantra. Probably that's the phrase I posted the most here in the playground...

skunk3
2019-03-31, 03:21 AM
I know this is an older thread and some people get all butthurt about "thread necromancy" but sometimes things need to be said.

Enlightened Spirit absolutely DOES progress EB damage alongside Warlock, which is why it is definitely one of the best Warlock prestige classes that you can take in a gestalt game. On top of that, the invocations that you get from Enlightned Spirit can be retrained just as any other invocations you'd take as a Warlock following the same rules. Don't like Holy Blast? Retrain it to something else.

In a non-gestalt game, Enlightened Spirit is pretty terrible unless you really want that flavor for a character. In a gestalt game, Enlightened Spirit is practically the go-to for Warlocks. It's far better than Hellfire Warlock and you don't have to worry about mitigating CON damage. Heck, depending upon how many levels you gain in the game you could possibly go for a re-fluffed version of HFW that is good-aligned instead of evil so you could stack it ALL together if you really wanted. Personally I think that if you're going with a gestalt character based around a Warlock your best bet is something like Warlock + Enlightened Spirit + some other class or classes that grant sneak attack. As long as you're blasting within 30' and they are flat-footed you're going to be rolling tons of D6's.