Something I don't get about the Lion King [Archive]

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Dr.Epic

2011-02-04, 06:59 AM

Eldan

2011-02-04, 07:12 AM

I'd guess it's a nickname he got later in his life. Note how everyone else has (pseudo?) African names.

Orzel

2011-02-04, 07:20 AM

Maybe when he was born, Rafiki dropped him on a rock and gave him a scar.

Starbuck_II

2011-02-04, 07:59 AM

So Scar is named Scar (just flow with the circular logic, it's going somewhere). Was Scar named Scar because he does actually have a scar? Did he get the scar later in life because that would be a huge coincidence? Was he born with the scar and his parents were just lazy?

I go with nickname he has been called so often no one remembers his name. That was the true villian in the story: no one knows his name. He is just a sad boy trying to get attention.
Plus the name gives his Cred with the hyenas.

Eldan

2011-02-04, 08:03 AM

Where any of the hyenas ever named, actually?

John Cribati

2011-02-04, 08:11 AM

Three Hyenas were named. Shenzi, Banzai, and Ed. According to TvTropes, Scar was originally named Taka.

druid91

2011-02-04, 08:19 AM

What I want to know is why was his family never shown in the first movie?

Eldan

2011-02-04, 08:32 AM

I assume there wasn't one planned back then.

Dr.Epic

2011-02-04, 09:47 AM

According to TvTropes, Scar was originally named Taka.

Is that stated anywhere in the actually movie?

What I want to know is why was his family never shown in the first movie?

Whose family? Scar's? They show his brother and nephew. I'm assuming his parents died awhile ago from old age and that's all the family he has.

Ozymandias

2011-02-04, 09:50 AM

His birth name was, naturally, "Claudius."

Mauve Shirt

2011-02-04, 10:09 AM

Dr.Epic

2011-02-04, 10:14 AM

I was confused at the sequel, which showed he had this entire cult of lionesses, and his own "heir". It made me wonder, if he had this whole fan club, why he wanted his brother's kingdom in the first place.

First rule of Disney sequel: it's always worse than the first and raises many questions in the series, usually best just to ignore it.

Marillion

2011-02-04, 10:28 AM

Is that stated anywhere in the actually movie?

Not in the movie, but in a prequel book they released. Apparently, Taka literally means Trash. Awwwwwwwww!

I was confused at the sequel, which showed he had this entire cult of lionesses, and his own "heir". It made me wonder, if he had this whole fan club, why he wanted his brother's kingdom in the first place.
The way I saw it, Zira and the other lions in that group were those who sided with Scar during his reign and as such were exiled, though it's been a long time since I saw it. However, even if they were a separate pack from the beginning, Scar didn't want to be king of a wasteland. If you've played Legend of Zelda: The Windwaker, the main villain was already king of a desert-faring people, but it wasn't the power of his enemies he envied, it was their beautiful green lands. Scar was much the same way; even if he could be king of these lions in the wasteland, what kind of existence would that be? Sure, when he took over his brothers kingdom it became a barren waste, but Scar was very much in denial at that point: When Sarabi returns from her hunt with nothing to show for it, rather than understanding that there's no prey to hunt, he blames her for being lazy.

rakkoon

2011-02-04, 10:32 AM

Yeah, I remember that scene

"I renounce my name...
from this day on
I will be called SCAR
and no longer Shirley"

Eleanor_Rigby

2011-02-04, 11:50 AM

Not in the movie, but in a prequel book they released. Apparently, Taka literally means Trash. Awwwwwwwww!

The book was called 'A Tale of Two Brothers' and was actually a sequel to the original Lion King movie. It tells how Scar got his name (something to do with an attempted prank on Mufassa and a buffalo??) and this backstory exposition is revealed as a story being told to Simba and Nala's son, Kopa.
The book was released a good while before the direct-to-video sequel. Apparently the team behind the original film didn't think that The Lion King would be especially popular and so they didn't have any plans for a sequel of any sort.
The heyenas are referenced by name in the film though.

I was confused at the sequel, which showed he had this entire cult of lionesses, and his own "heir". It made me wonder, if he had this whole fan club, why he wanted his brother's kingdom in the first place.

Yeah... that never really made sense to me either. Were all these lionesses supposed to be out on a hunt or something on the specific day Simba came back and overthrew Scar with little to no resistance from anyone but Scar himself? Kovu as Scar's heir makes very little sense either as Zira says he was selected by Scar personally but when Kovu and Kiara meet as cubs they're pretty much exactly the same size and look like they would be at the same stage developmentally. But if Kovu was around when Scar was, he would have to be older than Simba and Nala's cub, who was presented to the kingdom over lush grasslands in the first film, post-Scar despite there having been a severe drought during Scar's reign.
The whole thing was pretty plot-holey, but as Dr.Epic pointed out, Disney direct-to-video sequels generally were pretty awful.
...I did rather like 'The Return of Jafar' as a kid though.... :smallredface:

And rakkon, why did you have to remind me? That scene made me cry. Shirley was such a pretty name...:smalltongue:

BlackDragonKing

2011-02-04, 05:06 PM

First rule of Disney sequel: it's always worse than the first and raises many questions in the series, usually best just to ignore it.

The Aladdin sequels weren't bad at all. Although those were before the Cheapquel's time.

...I'm told one of the Cinderella cheapquels wasn't too bad, but I'm not sure I believe it. :smallsigh:

Irbis

2011-02-04, 06:46 PM

I was confused at the sequel, which showed he had this entire cult of lionesses, and his own "heir". It made me wonder, if he had this whole fan club, why he wanted his brother's kingdom in the first place.

Lions do not work that way :smalltongue:

The whole pride follows the strongest male, Scar was just outsider, lone 'wolf' type of Lion. He got the cult with the whole Pride.

Yeah... that never really made sense to me either. Were all these lionesses supposed to be out on a hunt or something on the specific day Simba came back and overthrew Scar with little to no resistance from anyone but Scar himself?

Eh, if you look at the movie, at which point they could have offered resistance? Simba/Scar fought in inaccessible location, the pride was attacked by hyenas, they would fight for life among Simba-loyalists.

Kovu as Scar's heir makes very little sense either as Zira says he was selected by Scar personally but when Kovu and Kiara meet as cubs they're pretty much exactly the same size and look like they would be at the same stage developmentally. But if Kovu was around when Scar was, he would have to be older than Simba and Nala's cub, who was presented to the kingdom over lush grasslands in the first film, post-Scar despite there having been a severe drought during Scar's reign.

'Selected' as IIRC, he wasn't supposed to be Scar's son. To avoid squick, you know.

CorrTerek

2011-02-04, 10:14 PM

AshDesert

2011-02-05, 12:19 PM

The Aladdin sequels weren't bad at all.

Well, there was that one... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vdxQLB7RjbI) :smalltongue:

Also, no wonder Scar turned out weird, when your parents name you "Trash" it's easy to see how that might screw a kid up.

paddyfool

2011-02-05, 12:33 PM

I'd guess it's a nickname he got later in his life. Note how everyone else has (pseudo?) African names.

Generally they're derived from Kiswahili. Simba is swahili for Lion, Pumba for warthog etc. Swahili is spoken across much of East Africa, but, in a way, it is indeed pseudo-African - it's a trader's argot, which is about 60% a hotchpotch of local languages, 20% Arabic, 10% English and 10% Portuguese.

Obrysii

2011-02-05, 01:17 PM

To quote the opening song to Mystery Science Theater 3000, "It's just a [movie], so you should really just relax" ...

:smallbiggrin:

In all seriousness, Scar is probably a nickname - a disowning one.

Starbuck_II

2011-02-05, 01:23 PM

Well, there was that one... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vdxQLB7RjbI) :smalltongue:

Also, no wonder Scar turned out weird, when your parents name you "Trash" it's easy to see how that might screw a kid up.

According to Captain Planet: it makes you a wonderful artist to be named Trash.

Eleanor_Rigby

2011-02-05, 02:07 PM

Eh, if you look at the movie, at which point they could have offered resistance? Simba/Scar fought in inaccessible location, the pride was attacked by hyenas, they would fight for life among Simba-loyalists.

This is a fair point I suppose but there was a point in the film where Scar tried to turn the lionesses against Simba, accusing him of being responsible for Mufassa's death. In that bit we had a small moment of shock/denial from Sarabi (Simba's mum) and then the lionesses shrugged it off and sided with Simba anyhow (as far as I remember, anyhow). It's clear from the fact that there are no darker scruffier lionesses like all the ones that were Scar's followers in 'Simba's Pride' that the sequel really wasn't planned from the beginning though.

'Selected' as IIRC, he wasn't supposed to be Scar's son. To avoid squick, you know.

Indeed. If anything though, this just makes the time-line less compatible. If Kovu had been Scar's son then he could have been concieved before Scar's death, but born after. My point was he must have been born while Scar was alive to have been 'selected'. The 'selected' element also adds the awkward issue of who was Kovu's father (or the father of his siblings/half siblings, for that matter) and how he factors into everything. Asking that last question is pretty pointless though because the first film has both Simba and Nala as young cubs at the same time and the 'logical' conclusion if you wanted the lion society to work like a nature documentary would be that Mufassa fathered both.

Generally they're derived from Kiswahili. Simba is swahili for Lion, Pumba for warthog etc. Swahili is spoken across much of East Africa, but, in a way, it is indeed pseudo-African - it's a trader's argot, which is about 60% a hotchpotch of local languages, 20% Arabic, 10% English and 10% Portuguese.

...And Timon is Swahili for...oh wait...I guess this is part of where the word 'generally' comes in... (http://shakespeare.mit.edu/timon/full.html) :smallwink:

To quote the opening song to Mystery Science Theater 3000, "It's just a [movie], so you should really just relax" ...

:smallbiggrin:

In all seriousness, Scar is probably a nickname - a disowning one.

This is what I would go with too, tie-in books or no, the argument that it's a nickname is easily the one that makes the most sense.

Mewtarthio

2011-02-05, 02:42 PM

Kovu as Scar's heir makes very little sense either as Zira says he was selected by Scar personally but when Kovu and Kiara meet as cubs they're pretty much exactly the same size and look like they would be at the same stage developmentally. But if Kovu was around when Scar was, he would have to be older than Simba and Nala's cub, who was presented to the kingdom over lush grasslands in the first film, post-Scar despite there having been a severe drought during Scar's reign.

There's a far simpler explanation to all this, you know: Zira is completely insane.

VeisuItaTyhjyys

2011-02-05, 05:31 PM

His birth name was, naturally, "Claudius."

I see what you did there.

What I don't get is why the hyena are all portrayed as simpering morons when hyena are a lot smarter than lions are, in real life. I mean, I get why, it just makes me mad.

Dr.Epic

2011-02-05, 11:41 PM

The Aladdin sequels weren't bad at all. Although those were before the Cheapquel's time.

...I'm told one of the Cinderella cheapquels wasn't too bad, but I'm not sure I believe it. :smallsigh:

Yeah, but the Aladin sequels were still bad. Maybe not horrible but still bad. Downgraded animation, downgraded songs, downgraded plot. Also, by the end of the first film it looked as thought Aladin and Jasmine were going to get married right away. Why'd it take two more films and a series to do it?

VanBuren

2011-02-05, 11:55 PM

Yeah, but the Aladin sequels were still bad. Maybe not horrible but still bad. Downgraded animation, downgraded songs, downgraded plot. Also, by the end of the first film it looked as thought Aladin and Jasmine were going to get married right away. Why'd it take two more films and a series to do it?

Because shut up. :smallbiggrin:

Seriously though, my MO is just to end canon with the last good movie where applicable (This mostly works, though you run into situations like the Matrix where Reloaded was still pretty good, but Revolutions was awful.)

invinible

2011-02-06, 12:39 AM

Yeah, but the Aladin sequels were still bad. Maybe not horrible but still bad. Downgraded animation, downgraded songs, downgraded plot. Also, by the end of the first film it looked as thought Aladin and Jasmine were going to get married right away. Why'd it take two more films and a series to do it?

Basically to show that the Sultan was now running the country like he should of been from the start rather than being manipulated as well as that he was changing laws that weren't right when he figured out that they weren't right.