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View Full Version : Deflavoring the Illithid Slayer (3.5)



TabletopNuke
2011-02-04, 03:51 PM
Everyone knows the illithid slayer. He's the guy with 9/10 manifester progression and full BAB. Some people love him, some people think he's not as hot as everyone says. I like the class enough that I think it's worth a shot in my homebrew setting, but I have a problem. There's no mind flayers in my setting. Tell me, good homebrewers, how do we take the illithid out of Illithid Slayer?

The SRD site has has a plain old "slayer (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/prestigeClasses/slayer.htm)" class, which allows the character to select a particular type of psionic creature as a favored enemy instead of mind flayers. This is a start, but it leaves in two class features that are very, very out of place without illithids: Brain Nausea and Blast Feedback.

Brain Nausea prevents the character's brain from being eaten, which is a pretty small benefit if you aren't in close combat with a flayer. Blast Feedback bounces a mind blast attack back at the manifester, again, no good without mind flayers around. Any ideas what we could replace this with?

Another thought, the prereqs for the class include 4 ranks in Knowledge (Dungeoneering). This works for hunting aberrations, but not for a general psi-hunting class. Perhaps it should be replaced with ranks in Concentration and Knowledge (Psionics)?

Mulletmanalive
2011-02-04, 07:30 PM
I can't remember what the ability is called, but there's a power that inflicts mental damage on those who make mental contact of any sort on the target. That should do nicely for Brain nausea as it would have a chance of feeding back on anyone who attacks you telepathically

The blast deflection thing could simply allow you to have a chance to send the affected power back to the attacker.

The skills thing makes sense.

Not noticed you about much recently; how're you doing?

ericgrau
2011-02-04, 10:10 PM
You could make it into a slayer of (insert creature type here), where you pick from the ranger favored enemy list. Replace the mental abilities with other abilities for each creature type. Consider the power and how specific the original ability was (more specific = weaker) for comparison.

TabletopNuke
2011-02-05, 12:09 AM
I can't remember what the ability is called, but there's a power that inflicts mental damage on those who make mental contact of any sort on the target. That should do nicely for Brain nausea as it would have a chance of feeding back on anyone who attacks you telepathically
Uh...I think there's a couple of abilities like that but the only one that I know off the top of my head is from my never-fully-completed madness feats (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=129960). I suppose one could say it causes Wis damage equal to the slayer's Wis mod or 1/2 class level or something. That seems quite a bit more powerful though, since the risk of your brain getting eaten isn't a common occurrence. Any thoughts?

The blast deflection thing could simply allow you to have a chance to send the affected power back to the attacker.
Mind blast is a illithid-specific class feature. What would the slayer be able to reflect back instead? It seems too powerful to reflect back any kind of power.

Not noticed you about much recently; how're you doing?
Long time no see man! I have not been to GITP in like a year with the exception of my new years vacation. Been doing well but busybusy with school and little time for DnD. Clearly I have a problem when real life interferes with my gaming. What have you been up to?

You could make it into a slayer of (insert creature type here), where you pick from the ranger favored enemy list. Replace the mental abilities with other abilities for each creature type. Consider the power and how specific the original ability was (more specific = weaker) for comparison.
What kind of abilities did you have in mind?

Mulletmanalive
2011-02-05, 06:14 PM
Well, the Tainted Raver template in Heroes of Horror has a similar ability. Possibly you could reverse engineer that.

I was basically thinking that if they passed the save for a telepathy effect, the effect is reflected, possibly at half power. Bit more powerful, admittedly, but this is supposed to be a little more general.

TabletopNuke
2011-02-05, 11:31 PM
Well, the Tainted Raver template in Heroes of Horror has a similar ability. Possibly you could reverse engineer that.
*Whips out HoH* Okay the tainted raver's Madness ability causes 1d3 points of taint (depravity). That might not work. Lessee...MMIV's Whisper Demon has a Madness ability that causes 1d4 points of Wis damage (no save).

So the questions are do we want a set amount of Wis damage and do we want a save? Since this is a class that doesn't really have a key ability I'm thinking either a set amount of damage or something based on class levels. If it scales, then it should definitely have a save. Not sure about a set amount though.

I was basically thinking that if they passed the save for a telepathy effect, the effect is reflected, possibly at half power. Bit more powerful, admittedly, but this is supposed to be a little more general.
I thought that at first, but then it raises the question of how you manage something like a half-strength charm. I guess it could be half duration, but that seems like a tricky thing to manage. Maybe increase the Wis damage from the anti-telepathy ability? Not a real exciting capstone though...

ericgrau
2011-02-06, 12:38 AM
What kind of abilities did you have in mind?
I'd make a different set of 5 or however many abilities it gets for each creature type to replace the illithid abilities. So, a lot. Too many for my laziness to conjure.

Human Paragon 3
2011-02-06, 12:45 AM
I actually designed a prestige class that takes the illithid out of illithid slayer (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=112859).

"I based this prestige class on the Illithid Slayer class. I really liked its capabilities, but PrCs as weirdly specific as this one bug me. Either your campaign is all about mind flayers, in which case you'd be ++ amazing, or your campaign is not about mindflayers, and half of your class features will be be useless.

So I changed the focus from mindflayers to a generic urban environment, moved the requirements around, changed a few abilities, and voila. What resulted is, IMO, a pretty damn cool class for almost any setting."

TabletopNuke
2011-02-06, 09:35 PM
I actually designed a prestige class that takes the illithid out of illithid slayer (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=112859).

"I based this prestige class on the Illithid Slayer class. I really liked its capabilities, but PrCs as weirdly specific as this one bug me. Either your campaign is all about mind flayers, in which case you'd be ++ amazing, or your campaign is not about mindflayers, and half of your class features will be be useless.

So I changed the focus from mindflayers to a generic urban environment, moved the requirements around, changed a few abilities, and voila. What resulted is, IMO, a pretty damn cool class for almost any setting."
Ooooh that looks way cool! I really like the flavor and Fade From Memory (but should that ability be specified as a mind-affecting affect?). Would you be okay with me yoinking the Fade From Memory and Null Psionic Burst for my class (with credit of course)? The favored organization thing isn't quite what I had in mind though.

I was thinking maybe for the favored enemy thing the slayer can choose a favored type of psychic, like telepath or wilder. What do you guys think?

Human Paragon 3
2011-02-06, 11:42 PM
Sure, go ahead. The fade from memory is similar to aversion, so when in doubt, refer to that power!

For the favored enemy, I would recomend going with just giving them favored enemy: manifester, and giving them the bonus against any creature with a PP reserve.

TabletopNuke
2011-02-07, 05:16 PM
Sure, go ahead. The fade from memory is similar to aversion, so when in doubt, refer to that power!

For the favored enemy, I would recomend going with just giving them favored enemy: manifester, and giving them the bonus against any creature with a PP reserve.
Wait Aversion? I don't think that's the right power. You mean Cloud Mind?

Hm...those bonuses against anything with a PP reserve seems a bit powerful. Maybe cut the favored enemy bonus in half?

Human Paragon 3
2011-02-07, 05:44 PM
I guess it depends on how many psionic enemies are used in your campaigns. If about half of the enemies are psionic, I'd say the bonuses are fine. +6 to damage half the time isn't super-game breaking, though it is quite good. If more than half of what you encounter is psionic, then probably it's a little too strong.

As for aversion vs. cloud mind, I was thinking the aversion would be to "recalling what the target looks like." You can have an aversion to an action. Although I guess there is a difference between unwilling and unable. Maybe cloud mind would be more accurate. Regardless, it is mind-affecting.

TabletopNuke
2011-02-10, 05:21 PM
I guess it depends on how many psionic enemies are used in your campaigns. If about half of the enemies are psionic, I'd say the bonuses are fine. +6 to damage half the time isn't super-game breaking, though it is quite good. If more than half of what you encounter is psionic, then probably it's a little too strong.

As for aversion vs. cloud mind, I was thinking the aversion would be to "recalling what the target looks like." You can have an aversion to an action. Although I guess there is a difference between unwilling and unable. Maybe cloud mind would be more accurate. Regardless, it is mind-affecting.
My setting has a decent amount of psychics, but I feel regardless a bonus against a particular species is far from equivalent to something as broad as manifesters. Even cutting the favored enemy bonus in half seems like it could be a bit overpowered.

Human Paragon 3
2011-02-11, 12:12 AM
Replace with the soul knife's Psychic Strike class feature?

TabletopNuke
2011-02-14, 01:02 AM
Replace with the soul knife's Psychic Strike class feature?
Hm....Slayers don't have mindblades as a class feature, so this would be for any weapon they're wielding? Oooh what about the Knife to the Soul feature instead, allowing the slayer to deal mental ability score damage?

Edit: Oh yeah, there's a dead level at 5. I wonder if we could stick anything in there...