PDA

View Full Version : D&D 3.5e Bluff



Larkin10859
2011-02-04, 11:44 PM
In our D&D group we have a player who will do things to a party such as: shooting an arrow at a nest of shocker lizards while a party member is attempting to sneak past to make the lizards attack. He then uses bluff to convince the party member who understandably is upset that he was put into danger, that he did so because he saw a lizard and he missed and hit the next on accident.

My question is: Is this a valid use of bluff and if so what modifiers would apply to the victim PC?

Thank you in advance,
Larkin

bloodtide
2011-02-05, 12:04 AM
To tell a lie is a valid use for bluff.

Any bluff that puts someone 'at risk' is a +5 to +10 modifier to the roll(per PH page 68).

Plus you would get the 'boy who cried wolf effect'. After say the 10th time of 'oops I almost got you killed again' people will just stop believing the lies. You can only stretch the truth so far.


You might want to have the players just keep away from the bluff guy. Avoid putting him in a spot where he can do harm.

The PC's could just think he is 'bad luck' after all. ''We believe in you 100% Bluff us all the time guy. But when you are around Bad Luck just happens.

Apophis775
2011-02-05, 01:54 PM
Had a similar thing like this happen once.

In a star wars RPG, the group was playing as imperial special forces spying/sabotaging the rebellion, but one of their members, was a double(triple?) agent and was spying on the imperial specials forces activities. Anyway, they are in a command room with 10 computer terminals, and the spy starts using them and they begin locking up. When the checked the logs i told the group:
"It says **** overloaded the connection router"

And they assumed he was just fail at using computers. He managed to disable 9 of the 10 computers before the told him "JUST GO WAIT IN THE SHIP".

On the way back to the ship, he sabotaged the bases main generator so it would later explode.


Anyway, they never tried sense motives or anything, they just assumed that he was doing a really bad job.

That is one way to "sabotage" the party without too big of a problem.

However, if he is firing an arrow PAST you into something you know is a nest, and your character turns around, I'd probably give a +20 bonus to sense motive as you turn around and see only him with a bow out and he's putting it away.

Hell, if the character has a history of an shenanigans, I'd probably at least give a +10 to the sense motive because he's proven himself dis-trustworthy to the group.


The way I see it, if your going to do something against the group, you'd best be a rogue and use an "I'm the rogue, gotta love me" line, or be willing to reroll once they kill and don't rez you.

That, or be REALLY good at not getting discovered.

erikun
2011-02-05, 02:43 PM
The bluff skill is for convincing other people that you are not lying. It does not compulse other characters to believe the bluffer. At best, your character would be convinced that the bluffer was trying to prevent an ambush (or whatever the excuse was).

This does not immediately make your character stupid or, as mentioned, create a magical compulsion to believe the bluffer. If these "accidents" keep happening it would be perfectly reasonable for a character to question the bluffer's sincerity, regardless of how truthful he seems.

You might also want to talk to the group OOC about what is happening and how it might be resolved. If you just have a problem player, your issues might be something other than simple bluff checks.

Friv
2011-02-05, 02:50 PM
The bluff skill is for convincing other people that you are not lying. It does not compulse other characters to believe the bluffer. At best, your character would be convinced that the bluffer was trying to prevent an ambush (or whatever the excuse was).

Uh... that's exactly what it does. If you convince people that you are not lying, they have to by definition believe that you are telling the truth. Your character would be convinced that the other guy believed he was shooting at a lizard to protect you.

Now, you will not automatically believe that the lizard was there, but you will believe that your party member didn't mean to get you in trouble.


If these "accidents" keep happening it would be perfectly reasonable for a character to question the bluffer's sincerity, regardless of how truthful he seems.

What would be reasonable would be that each successive lie would increase the DC of the Bluff check, and that successfully lying to people consistently that you're only trying to help will result in them thinking that you're a freaking useless party member, not that you're actually trying to get them killed.

erikun
2011-02-05, 03:09 PM
Uh... that's exactly what it does. If you convince people that you are not lying, they have to by definition believe that you are telling the truth.
Incorrect. You may tell me that little green aliens crawl into your ears at night to steal your memories, and I may believe that you think that little green aliens crawl into your ears at night to steal your memories. But that does not mean that I believe that there are little green aliens crawling into anyone's ears.

The bluff check is just convince others that you believe what you are saying. It is at no point a compulsion. This is especially true when bluffing other players - the DM may have a good reason for allowing NPCs to go along with bluffs, but at no point should one player take control of the actions of another player (beyond outright magical control).