Why do people assume Bozzak was telling the truth? [Archive]

Gnoman

2011-02-05, 09:44 AM

It was far to smoothly played to come up with on a whim. Either it was true, or he had been thinking it up for a long time. Add in how much easier it would be simply to have him have sent the described letter as opposed to knowing about the situation without having caused it, it's likely to be true, for certain values of "true"

Swordpriest

2011-02-05, 10:04 AM

Because it fits so absolutely exactly with what Ian just said.

I mean, if somebody in California told you that a guy in a suburb of France where you were going drove a green Peugeot decorated with a painting of the Eiffel Tower on the hood would try to sell you a cheap used car on your arrival, and when you landed in Charles de Gaulle airport you saw a guy in green Peugeot with a painting of the Eiffel Tower on the hood, waiting there with a soapy grin and an old beater with a 500 Euro price tag in the window, you wouldn't think it was a just a coincidence, would you? :smallbiggrin:

Earl William

2011-02-05, 10:08 AM

I mean, if somebody in California told you that a guy in a suburb of France where you were going drove a green Peugeot decorated with a painting of the Eiffel Tower on the hood would try to sell you a cheap used car on your arrival, and when you landed in Charles de Gaulle airport you saw a guy in green Peugeot with a painting of the Eiffel Tower on the hood, waiting there with a soapy grin and an old beater with a 500 Euro price tag in the window, you wouldn't think it was a just a coincidence, would you? :smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:Indeed. I suppose Bozzak doesn't mind telling people he's about to kill sensitive information.

LuPuWei

2011-02-05, 10:10 AM

Why do people assume that Bozzak was telling the truth about Ian in #609? It seems pretty clear to me he was making it up to distract Haley.

It's Bozzok.

Darth Hunterix

2011-02-05, 10:41 AM

Why do people assume that Bozzak was telling the truth about Ian in #609?

Because he is is such a nice person.

derfenrirwolv

2011-02-05, 05:00 PM

Usually dying people and people who are about to kill you have little reason to lie to you.

Mind you this SHOULD be different in D&D

Shoelessgdowar

2011-02-05, 05:48 PM

Usually dying people and people who are about to kill you have little reason to lie to you.

Mind you this SHOULD be different in D&D

Should yes, Is no... It is the rule of dramatic.

Dr.Epic

2011-02-05, 07:37 PM

It was far to smoothly played to come up with on a whim.

Yeah, it's not like there's some sort of bluff skill in D&D that makes it look like something you said was true and not some sort of spontaneous lie I mean, it's not like 5 seconds after Nale learned Haley was speaking gibberish he thought up the idea to lie to Elan that she was really speaking Infernal and was really a spy for the Linear Guild.

ThirdEmperor

2011-02-05, 07:45 PM

Yeah, I really doubt Bozzak was lying. It was simply to dramatic, and fit too perfectly with what's happened since.

Thanatosia

2011-02-06, 03:08 AM

Also, people tend to need a motivation to lie generally speaking. If Bozak was lying, what profit does the lie give him?

I'm sorry, but Bozak telling the truth all lines up perfectly, while Bozak lying is 'just because despite all evidence to the contrary'. If you want to make a case for Bozak Lying, THEN MAKE A CASE FOR IT. Don't just say - oh he could be. Give us a reason.

Themrys

2011-02-06, 06:17 AM

Bozzok wouldn't even have known about the ransom note if he wasn't involved, so it would be a big coincidence that this fit so perfectly into what Haley already knew.
Also, if he only made up a lie to distract her, he would have simply said "I killed your father, that's why he never returned" or something like this.

Demonicbunny

2011-02-06, 07:40 AM

Also, if he only made up a lie to distract her, he would have simply said "I killed your father, that's why he never returned" or something like this.

Rule no.1 of villain insults. NEVER tell them that you killed their father (or their mother).
Because then you just have to prepare to die.
Seriously. I don't think that there is a single villain that has said "I killed your father" and survived. They're either dead or in the process of being killed, their death only delayed by an author trying to milk the most out of it.

Themrys

2011-02-06, 12:37 PM

Rule no.1 of villain insults. NEVER tell them that you killed their father (or their mother).
Because then you just have to prepare to die.
Seriously. I don't think that there is a single villain that has said "I killed your father" and survived. They're either dead or in the process of being killed, their death only delayed by an author trying to milk the most out of it.

True. However, not everyone is as genre-savvy as Elan. Did Bozzok survive? After all, what he said could be understood as "I killed your father." Haley didn't know whether her father was still alive.

Lateral

2011-02-06, 12:44 PM

It's Bozzok.

In his first appearance in OtOoPC's, I think he was called Bozzak, but in the main comic his name's Bozzok.

LuPuWei

2011-02-06, 02:44 PM

In his first appearance in OtOoPC's, I think he was called Bozzak, but in the main comic his name's Bozzok.

Well that explains the rampant misspelling (to some extent) I guess. Heck, maybe he even had to change his identity at some point, so he changed his name too. I wonder if you need an affidavit for that in Greysky city...

Zmflavius

2011-02-06, 03:24 PM

My impression is that as a rogue, he'd have some skill in lying (bluff).

That said, yeah it's a bit too much of a coincidence for him to have been lying IMO.

Wonder why Haley hasn't brought it up yet (and sorry if this has been discussed somewhere else already)?

Dr.Epic

2011-02-06, 05:13 PM

Also, people tend to need a motivation to lie generally speaking. If Bozak was lying, what profit does the lie give him?

He was just telling Haley something she'd be interested enough in so Crystal could sneak up behind her and Haley would be prone for his sneak attack.

Ron Miel

2011-02-07, 09:38 PM

Seriously. I don't think that there is a single villain that has said "I killed your father" and survived.

Apart from Belkar, of course.
(Okay, he didn't say those exact words, but he still admits killing Yokyok's father. And survives)

Gnoman

2011-02-07, 09:54 PM

He was just telling Haley something she'd be interested enough in so Crystal could sneak up behind her and Haley would be prone for his sneak attack.

Then the lie wouldn't dovetail so nicely with the situation as it sits. The information he would need to successfully lie about this is far, far too much to be chance, just like the crazy "Alternative plan" from the Darth V arc.

Hake

2011-02-07, 10:47 PM

Apart from Belkar, of course.
(Okay, he didn't say those exact words, but he still admits killing Yokyok's father. And survives)

Though he will be dead within a year.

LuPuWei

2011-02-08, 05:23 AM

Though he will be dead within a year.

And perhaps at the hands of Yakyak?

Morquard

2011-02-08, 02:03 PM

Apart from Belkar, of course.
(Okay, he didn't say those exact words, but he still admits killing Yokyok's father. And survives)
Well technically speaking Belkar, while evil, is not a villain in this story. And more importantly, Yokyok was not a hero.
So he can say he killed his father.

Goosefarble

2011-02-08, 02:15 PM

I think you have to be very careful with something like OOTS to not "read too much into it". If someone says something it may well be a lie, but if they say something at a dramatic time, where it would make perfect sense for them to be telling the truth, even if they're a compulsive liar, they are probably telling the truth.

Gift Jeraff

2011-02-08, 08:07 PM

Wonder why Haley hasn't brought it up yet (and sorry if this has been discussed somewhere else already)?
Because, unlike us, Haley was in the heat of an emotional moment, cannot read the archives/previous books (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0528.html) (usually (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0649.html)), cannot read other people's speculation and tie it into her own, and does not have days between each strip to think in the comfort of her home. :smalltongue:

(Personally, one of my least favorite moments is when Haley remembers Hilgya and Zz'dtri's names (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0399.html), especially Hilgya's. It shatters my suspension of disbelief because it reminds me that Haley's words are really just generated by someone who remembers tertiary character names/has notes/double-checked in the archives. The same would happen if she brought up what Bozzok said in the middle of all this.)

Nimrod's Son

2011-02-09, 02:05 AM

In his first appearance in OtOoPC's, I think he was called Bozzak, but in the main comic his name's Bozzok.
Yeah, that's right. If I had to guess, I'd say it was retconned to avoid his name getting confused with a certain rather similar slang term (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=bozak) (link contains naughty words, for those who care).

Which clearly worked a treat, judging by Thanatosia's post. :smallbiggrin:

LuPuWei

2011-02-09, 02:20 AM

Yeah, that's right. If I had to guess, I'd say it was retconned to avoid his name getting confused with a certain rather similar slang term (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=bozak) (link contains naughty words, for those who care).

Which clearly worked a treat, judging by Thanatosia's post. :smallbiggrin:

In Greysky city, our Bozak lies,
There beneath the cold grey skies,
Testament to life so fickle,
A giant, frozen Bozak-sicle. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0619.html)

doodthedud

2011-02-09, 10:39 AM

Why do people assume that Bozzak was telling the truth about Ian in #609? It seems pretty clear to me he was making it up to distract Haley.

Taunts that are true are alot more distracting. It's not really clear if it's true or not, though it's clear that whether it is or not is irrelevant for its current usage.