Enchanted Clothing

[dark.sun.druid]

I've looked, and I can't find any rules anywhere about enchanting clothing (i.e. wearable items other than armor and shields). I was wondering what you all think about this, and if you know of any official rules on the subject that I was unable to find.

EXAMPLE: Monk's Outfit with the enchantments Easy Travel and Agility (both enchantments found in the magic item compendium) for 2,005gp (the price of the base Monk's Outfit along with the prices of the enchantments).

[Xyk]

I'd treat it like armor. So add 150 on that price for masterwork (extremely fine woven) and you're set.

[dark.sun.druid]

I like that idea. I think I could probably get my DM to agree to that. I'm not sure, but I don't think he'd mind too much.

[Boci]

It would probably need to be +1 as well, raising te priCe to 3,155gp. I'm guessing +1 garbs would just giVe a +1 armour bonus to AC.

[dark.sun.druid]

I have enough spare money to do that, but it's for a monk character (hence Monk's Outfit), so if the armor bonus makes it interfere with my monk class abilities then I can't use it.

[Boci]

I have enough spare money to do that, but it's for a monk character (hence Monk's Outfit), so if the armor bonus makes it interfere with my monk class abilities then I can't use it.

BraCes of armour do not, so I don't see wHy a +1 robe would. I was just pointing out tHat you generally need an item to be +1 before you an add more abilities.

[Welknair]

BraCes of armour do not, so I don't see wHy a +1 robe would. I was just pointing out tHat you generally need an item to be +1 before you an add more abilities.

I concur. If we're treating them like armor (which I do in my games) then it abides by the normal rules that it has to be masterwork and at least +1 before you can add other enchantments. And similarly, not everything that conveys an armor bonus is armor (as the aforementioned Bracers of Armor). Last time I checked, robes aren't armor. So you should be fine.

Hey, does anyone else wonder about the repeat use of the school of Enchantment and the Enchanted Items? Even though you rarely Enchant items with Enchantment spells? :smallconfused:

[dark.sun.druid]

Okay. Again, I will have to run this past my DM because it's officially a house rule, but if I were running the game I would allow it. I don't see it becoming unbalancing in any way.

As a side note, does this sound like it would be a good weapon for a monk? The Fleshgrinding means I can let it go and it will continue to do damage for several rounds, and the Axiomatic means that if a chaotic character that I've attacked with it pulls it out (causing them to be wielding it) they will take one persistent negative level.
+1 Adamantine Axiomatic Kama of Fleshgrinding (21,000 gp)

[Welknair]

Okay. Again, I will have to run this past my DM because it's officially a house rule, but if I were running the game I would allow it. I don't see it becoming unbalancing in any way.

*Transition to a picture of the monk running around in a loincloth enchanted to act like Epic Armor*

Not unbalancing at all...

Of course I'm kidding, it shouldn't be unbalancing at all and it fixes one of the many problems that Monks have. And the mages love to be able to wear what they make. :smallbiggrin:

[dark.sun.druid]

... it fixes one of the many problems that Monks have. And the mages love to be able to wear what they make. :smallbiggrin:

Very good point!

[Combat Reflexes]

I don't see it becoming unbalancing in any way.

Actually it's unbalancing; It gives classes that normally are prohibited from wearing armour access to armour-only cool enhancements such as Death Ward armour and such (okay, not THAT unbalancing, just another case of 'casters get even more nice stuff')

ps. is it armor of armour? Both words get equal use in the books and English being my second language and all :smallredface:

[Shpadoinkle]

ps. is it armor of armour? Both words get equal use in the books and English being my second language and all :smallredface:

They're both right. Armor is the American English spelling, while armour is the British English version.

[Boci]

Actually it's unbalancing; It gives classes that normally are prohibited from wearing armour access to armour-only cool enhancements such as Death Ward armour and such (okay, not THAT unbalancing, just another case of 'casters get even more nice stuff')

It was already relatiVly easy to drop AFC down to 0% (mitHril feyCraft twiligHt brestplate is pretty CHeap at later leVels), so tHats not a big issue.


ps. is it armor of armour? Both words get equal use in the books and English being my second language and all :smallredface:

Armour is te BritisH-EnglisH, armor te Amerian EnglisH, its probably best to use tHe latter sinCe tHere are more of tHem.

Needing to Capitalize C,V and H is starting to get annoying.

[dark.sun.druid]

Armor is American English, Armour is British English.

I did just think of something potentially unbalancing. Characters shouldn't be allowed to wear enchanted armor along with enchanted clothing, otherwise they could get double the enchantment bonus for half the price.

On another note, clothing has a very low hardness and HP, so that should balance out the fact that it gives
'casters get even more nice stuff'.

[Gnoman]

I think I'll suggest this to the monk in my party. Now that we're at level 12, he's a bit squishy (although he still does twice as much to bring enemies down as any other character.)

[dark.sun.druid]

I think I'll suggest this to the monk in my party. Now that we're at level 12, he's a bit squishy (although he still does twice as much to bring enemies down as any other character.)

Thank you! I'm glad I had a good idea. ^_^

[Welknair]

I did just think of something potentially unbalancing. Characters shouldn't be allowed to wear enchanted armor along with enchanted clothing, otherwise they could get double the enchantment bonus for half the price.


You wouldn't need to make special rules for that - Both take up your "Torso" magic item slot. It'd be like wearing three magic rings - one just doesn't work.

[dark.sun.druid]

You wouldn't need to make special rules for that - Both take up your "Torso" magic item slot. It'd be like wearing three magic rings - one just doesn't work.

"Body: armor, robes." Magic Item Compendium

It says nothing about clothing, although that would be convenient.

[senrath]

Yeah, there's a difference between the Body slot (armor, robes), and the Torso slot (shirts, tunics, vests, vestments).

[Boci]

You wouldn't need to make special rules for that - Both take up your "Torso" magic item slot. It'd be like wearing three magic rings - one just doesn't work.

Armour and robes occupy the body slot, shirts, tunics, vests, vestments the torso one.

Swordsaged

[Welknair]

You know, I never was really clear on the actual slots... Anyways, the point is that normal clothes and armor occupy the same slot.

[Siosilvar]

You know, I never was really clear on the actual slots... Anyways, the point is that normal clothes and armor occupy the same slot.

No, that's not true. Although it probably makes the most sense.

The slots are:

Head
Face/Eyes
Neck
Shoulders (cloaks and the like)
Torso (shirts, tunics, vests, vestments)
Body (Armor, robes)
Wrists
Hands
Belt
Feet
2x Ring

[Androgeus]

Just have clothing which carry armour enchantments take up the body slot. I'm unsure whether it should still occupy the torso slot for balance or not.

[Gnoman]

I'd simply consider the armor abilities to have the same "source" and not stack, so you could only use one or the other set. This could cause some slight trouble if you load the clothing up to +5 in enhancement and put +4 worth of abilities on the armor, but that's pretty minor.

[Combat Reflexes]

Armor is American English, Armour is British English.

I did just think of something potentially unbalancing. Characters shouldn't be allowed to wear enchanted armor along with enchanted clothing, otherwise they could get double the enchantment bonus for half the price.

On another note, clothing has a very low hardness and HP, so that should balance out the fact that it gives caster even more nice stuff.

Good point. Now I won't need Lord Sunder and his Sword of Sundering anymore to cripple the party :smallamused:


I'd simply consider the armor abilities to have the same "source" and not stack, so you could only use one or the other set. This could cause some slight trouble if you load the clothing up to +5 in enhancement and put +4 worth of abilities on the armor, but that's pretty minor.

Yeah, but people are already pulling that same trick off on double weapons - mr. Big Stupid Respectable Fighter has a +5 / +1 Warning Smoking Eager Whatnot Dwarven Urgrosh

[Kobold Esq]

re sundering: Sundering is very limited in what it can attack. Weapons, shields, and other held objects. (Though I'm sure there are some spells that probably get around this issue)

[MeeposFire]

Just so you know

Bracers of Armor can be enchanted with armor enchantments. you can find the rules in the Arms and Equipment Guide.

So give your bracers death ward. Its cool (I like soulfire myself).

In fact you could use a magic robe for AC (since there are a few that do that) and use the bracers for armor enhancements.

[Necro_EX]

I always figured enchanted clothing fit under the wondrous item catchall.
Especially considering that's where you'll find all sorts of nifty belts, hats, bracers, robes, and cloaks. :D

[Curmudgeon]

I've looked, and I can't find any rules anywhere about enchanting clothing (i.e. wearable items other than armor and shields). I was wondering what you all think about this, and if you know of any official rules on the subject that I was unable to find.
If you're talking Body slot items (robes), this is a standard location for an armor bonus per Magic Item Compendium Table 6-11: Adding/Improving Common Item Effects.
Adding Common Item Effects to Existing Items

One of the most frustrating roadblocks to using interesting, unusual magic items is that they take up body slots that you need for an ability-boosting item (such as gauntlets of ogre power), a ring of protection, or another must-have item. To address this issue, Magic Item Compendium presents official rules for adding common item effects to existing magic items.
I figured out that this would be a useful solution to the Cloistered Cleric armor limitation, as follows:

1) Start with the right clothing.
Scholar’s Outfit

Perfect for a scholar, this outfit includes a robe, a belt, a cap, soft shoes, and possibly a cloak.2) Next, enhance the robe with an armor bonus (up to +8), as per Magic Item Compendium page 234. This works exactly the same as Bracers of Armor; the "Adding/Improving Common Item Effects" table allows armor bonuses in both Arms (bracers) and Body (robe) slots.

3) Next, you can add an armor enhancement bonus on top of the armor bonus if you cast Magic Vestment:
You imbue a suit of armor or a shield with an enhancement bonus of +1 per four caster levels (maximum +5 at 20th level).

An outfit of regular clothing counts as armor that grants no AC bonus for the purpose of this spell.4) Finally, realize that your armor boost (up to +13 already) isn't from actual armor at all, and thus you can still wear a Monk's Belt to get (1 + WIS bonus) more AC!

Since Bracers of Armor can have non-numerical armor enhancements like Silent Moves or Fortification (see Arms and Equipment Guide on page 130), and armor enhancements in Arms (bracers) and Body (robes) slots work identically, you should be able to add whatever magical armor enhancements your character's budget will allow.

[TalonDemonKing]

In pathfinder, I know that you can have magic items that don't take up a slot; like an ioun stone or the like.

It's more costly, however.

[Boci]

In pathfinder, I know that you can have magic items that don't take up a slot; like an ioun stone or the like.

It's more costly, however.

3.5 have them as well. Thumb rule if you double the cost.

[2xMachina]

3) Next, you can add an armor enhancement bonus on top of the armor bonus if you cast Magic Vestment:4) Finally, realize that your armor boost (up to +13 already) isn't from actual armor at all, and thus you can still wear a Monk's Belt to get (1 + WIS bonus) more AC!

Since Bracers of Armor can have non-numerical armor enhancements like Silent Moves or Fortification (see Arms and Equipment Guide on page 130), and armor enhancements in Arms (bracers) and Body (robes) slots work identically, you should be able to add whatever magical armor enhancements your character's budget will allow.

I'm think the Armor/shield phrase in Magic Vestments rule out non-armor, so your robe doesn't qualify.

[Kobold Esq]

Also I'd probably rule that the now-magic-vestment-ed clothing is still granting only +8, and the effects are overlapping, not stacking.

[Curmudgeon]

I'm think the Armor/shield phrase in Magic Vestments rule out non-armor, so your robe doesn't qualify.
There's another option in Magic Vestment:

An outfit of regular clothing counts as armor that grants no AC bonus for the purpose of this spell. That's what the Scholar's Outfit (with robe) is for. Clothing doesn't occupy either the the Armor or Shield slots, so the "suit of armor or a shield" part of the spell doesn't apply.

Also I'd probably rule that the now-magic-vestment-ed clothing is still granting only +8, and the effects are overlapping, not stacking.
Armor bonus and enhancement bonus are different types (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/theBasics.htm#modifierTypes); they always stack ─ unless you're proposing a house rule to change things specifically for your own games.

[Kobold Esq]

Enhancement has to enhance something. It is not applied directly to armor class. It is applied to some pre-existing armor bonus.

Your clothes provide +0 armor bonus. Magic vestment gives +3 enhancement to your clothes. Now they provide +3 armor bonus.

Chain shirt provides +4 armor bonus. Magic vestment gives +3 enhancement to your chain shift. Now it provides +7 armor bonus.

The problem here is you have a normally +0 armor (clothes) that have a magical effect on them that provides +8 armor. So how is that +8 characterized? Your statement assumes that it is working like Bracers of Armor. If so, the +8 is a separate magical effect of the clothing (a force effect like Mage Armor), unrelated to the normal +0 given by the cloth itself. Granting a bonus to the cloth to turn that +0 into a +3 will be trumped by the magic effect.

Imagine a magic buckler that treated the wielder as always being under the effect of a Shield spell. Now imagine what happens if you used Magic Vestment to make it a +2 buckler. The +4 from the effect would trump it. Same basic problem I see here.

[Coidzor]

The problem here is you have a normally +0 armor (clothes) that have a magical effect on them that provides +8 armor. So how is that +8 characterized?

As an armor bonus to AC.


Your statement assumes that it is working like Bracers of Armor. If so, the +8 is a separate magical effect of the clothing (a force effect like Mage Armor), unrelated to the normal +0 given by the cloth itself. Granting a bonus to the cloth to turn that +0 into a +3 will be trumped by the magic effect.

You've got it part right. Yes, the +8 armor bonus is unrelated to the enhancement bonus granted by magic vestments. No, magic vestments is not made moot by the armor bonus. Why? Because it's an enhancement bonus to armor class so it stacks.

It's exactly like casting magic vestments on a suit of full plate, but without the ASF, ACP, and maximum dexterity bonus. Or weight.


Imagine a magic buckler that treated the wielder as always being under the effect of a Shield spell.

Ok, so you have 2 sources of shield bonuses to AC. Bucklers grant 1, Shield grants 4. Or something. So you only have the 4 from shield but it's a force effect so it's better anyway.
Now imagine what happens if you used Magic Vestment to make it a +2 buckler. The +4 from the effect would trump it. Same basic problem I see here.

Nope. You'd have a complicated thing where the buckler is granting an enhancement bonus and the shield spell is granting an armor bonus. It's differs significantly from the situation with clothing that's been made into magical armor getting hit with magic vestments.

[Kobold Esq]

It's exactly like casting magic vestments on a suit of full plate, but without the ASF, ACP, and maximum dexterity bonus. Or weight.

Except in that it is not.

"They surround the wearer with an invisible but tangible field of force, granting him an armor bonus of +1 to +8. . ."

The tangible field of force is where the armor bonus is coming from. It is a magical effect that grants a specific bonus. Magic Vestment would not change what is written under the "of Armor" effect line on your new Clothing of Armor. The clothing is +0 AC 'armor' which has a magic effect providing a set armor bonus. If you cast magic vestment, you may end up with +3 Clothing of Armor, which is +3 AC armor which provides a non-stacking +8 Armor bonus from the magic effect.

[Curmudgeon]

Enhancement has to enhance something. It is not applied directly to armor class. It is applied to some pre-existing armor bonus.
The enhancement bonus to armor is supplied by Magic Vestment, and applies to regular clothing (a robe). That robe (a Body slot item) was previously given an armor bonus using the "Adding/Improving Common Item Effects" rules in Magic Item Compendium (pages 233-234).

[Kobold Esq]

The enhancement bonus to armor is supplied by Magic Vestment, and applies to regular clothing (a robe). That robe (a Body slot item) was previously given an armor bonus using the "Adding/Improving Common Item Effects" rules in Magic Item Compendium (pages 233-234).

It was not "given an armor bonus". It did not become plate. It is being given a magical effect that grants an armor bonus. I understand what you are arguing, I am merely saying that I find your claim is silly. The clothing itself still has no mundane armor bonus of its own, which is what the spell would increase.

[Coidzor]

Except in that it is not. Except that it is in so far as Magic Vestment cares. :smallwink:


You imbue a suit of armor or a shield with an enhancement bonus of +1 per four caster levels (maximum +5 at 20th level).

An outfit of regular clothing counts as armor that grants no AC bonus for the purpose of this spell.

That's not saying that magical clothing that provides an armor bonus loses it when magic vestments is applied. It's stating that regular clothing is a valid target for the spell.


The tangible field of force is where the armor bonus is coming from. It is a magical effect that grants a specific bonus.

Yeah, Armor.


Magic Vestment would not change what is written under the "of Armor" effect line on your new Clothing of Armor. The clothing is +0 AC 'armor' which has a magic effect providing a set armor bonus. If you cast magic vestment, you may end up with +3 Clothing of Armor, which is +3 AC armor which provides a non-stacking +8 Armor bonus from the magic effect.

Nope. You're still not getting the difference between enhancement bonuses and armor bonuses.

And contradicting yourself when you said earlier that they're unrelated. You can't have that as a given and then say that Magic Vestment's enhancement bonus cancels out the armor bonus of the Clothing of Armor.

Where magical effects don't contradict each other or provide the same bonus, they default to stacking.

+8 Armor bonus. +3 enhancement bonus. Yeah, they stack.

edit 1:
It was not "given an armor bonus". It did not become plate. It is being given a magical effect that grants an armor bonus.

Which is irrelevant. Magic Vestment (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/magicvestment.htm) doesn't care. Bracers of Armor (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicitems/wondrousitems.htm#bracersofArmor) don't care.

Bonus stacking rules don't care.

edit 2:
It is being given a magical effect that grants an armor bonus.

That doesn't matter here.


The clothing itself still has no mundane armor bonus of its own, which is what the spell would increase.

And the spell doesn't work the way you think it does. The clothing has, intrinsically, a +8 armor bonus after its modification. It doesn't matter if it's not from being mundane armor.

The enhancement bonus stacks with this, and there's no provision for losing the armor bonus like you believe.

[Kobold Esq]

*bangs head against wall*

Clearly there is no way I'm going to convince you. So instead I will merely state that not only do I believe you are incorrect, but you are glossing over important details.

The clothing itself is +0. This did not change ever when crafting the magic item. The magic item has an effect that creates a forcefield. The forcefield grants the +8 armor bonus.

Casting magic vestment on the underlying item does not change the effect of the forcefield the item creates.

Now I get that you disagree. I understand why you do. But I believe your conclusion is flawed because it is not nuanced enough to handle the actual facts of this specific combination. You see "oh, armor bonus! oh I can enhance clothing! It must work!" and you don't actually think any farther beyond that.

Anyways, I'm done.

[Curmudgeon]

It was not "given an armor bonus".
You might want to look at the rules more carefully. It specifically is given "AC, +1 armor bonus" according to the first entry of the Magic Item Compendium table (page 234). Greater armor bonuses are given with additional crafting effort (table entries of the form "AC, +1 to +2 armor bonus", and so on).

It did not become plate. ... I understand what you are arguing, I am merely saying that I find your claim is silly.
Magic Vestment doesn't require that clothing "become plate" for the spell to function. As for silliness, it's magic, which by definition defies natural laws. Yet the D&D rules categorize the results of such magic, and the magical result of Magic Vestment is in a category that does not conflict with clothing that has a wondrous armor bonus added via Craft Wondrous Item.

[Otodetu]

*bangs head against wall*

I did that too the first time, then I looked at it again and I understood.

Forget logic, don't use logic, just see that the magical cloth grants an ARMOR bonus, a very regular ARMOR bonus, the vestment spell grants the target an ENHANCEMENT bonus.

No, the magical cloth does not grant a ENHANCEMENT bonus to armour-class, but an ARMOR bonus, so it stacks with vestment.

It is simply two types of ac; like deflection and insight, they stack.

[Siosilvar]

*bangs head against wall*

Clearly there is no way I'm going to convince you. So instead I will merely state that not only do I believe you are incorrect, but you are glossing over important details.

The clothing itself is +0. This did not change ever when crafting the magic item. The magic item has an effect that creates a forcefield. The forcefield grants the +8 armor bonus.

Casting magic vestment on the underlying item does not change the effect of the forcefield the item creates.

Now I get that you disagree. I understand why you do. But I believe your conclusion is flawed because it is not nuanced enough to handle the actual facts of this specific combination. You see "oh, armor bonus! oh I can enhance clothing! It must work!" and you don't actually think any farther beyond that.

Anyways, I'm done.

A +8 armor bonus and a +3 enhancement bonus to an armor bonus will always stack. Magic vestment stacks with Bracers of Armor, why won't it stack with the same item in a different slot?

[MeeposFire]

A +8 armor bonus and a +3 enhancement bonus to an armor bonus will always stack. Magic vestment stacks with Bracers of Armor, why won't it stack with the same item in a different slot?

Part of the problem is that you nomrally cannot cast that spell on the bracers. You can cast it on shields, armor, and clothing. Most people do not consider bracers as clothing.

[Curmudgeon]

Part of the problem is that you nomrally cannot cast that spell on the bracers. You can cast it on shields, armor, and clothing. Most people do not consider bracers as clothing.
Yeah, that's pretty iffy. But robes are unambiguously clothing, and since they (Body slot) use exactly the same item enhancement process as bracers (Arms slot), there's no rules problem.

[MeeposFire]

Yeah, that's pretty iffy. But robes are unambiguously clothing, and since they (Body slot) use exactly the same item enhancement process as bracers (Arms slot), there's no rules problem.

Yes but that would boost the robe not the bracers.

[Curmudgeon]

Yes but that would boost the robe not the bracers.
Since robes and bracers can have the exact same properties, I don't see that as a problem. Just skip Bracers of Armor and give your robes whatever armor properties you would have gotten in the Bracers.

[Androgeus]

Casting magic vestment on the underlying item does not change the effect of the forcefield the item creates.


Magic Vestments provides an enhancement bonus, the extra magic from the spell could be helping to reinforce the force field making it stronger.