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Origomar
2011-02-05, 07:34 PM
if someone hears the target(general direction and gets ready for combat), but doesnt see exactly where they are, then the target attacks them does the person who attacks them get a sneak attack bonus?

mootoall
2011-02-05, 07:43 PM
if someone hears the target(general direction and gets ready for combat), but doesnt see exactly where they are, then the target attacks them does the person who attacks them get a sneak attack bonus?

If they're flatfooted you get bonus damage. If they haven't yet taken an action in initiative order, they're flatfooted. So if I understand you're question correctly, then yes, the attacker should get SA.

ericgrau
2011-02-05, 10:29 PM
If you can't see someone but can hear them you're still flat-footed. But hearing them might help you look in their direction so that as soon as they appear you see them.

MeeposFire
2011-02-05, 10:44 PM
Hearing the target may allow you to roll for initiative but if you go after theenemy you can still be sneaked attack.

KillianHawkeye
2011-02-06, 01:55 AM
So the sitation is: a sneaking Rogue is about to attack somebody. The person's Listen check beats the Rogue's Move Silently, but the Spot check fails against the Rogue's Hide. The Rogue's target is not surprised and both he and the Rogue will roll Initiative.

Option A: The Rogue beats the other guy's Initiative and attacks first. He gets Sneak Attack.

Option B: The other guy wins Initiative and uses a Move Action to attempt another Spot check to find the hidden Rogue. He fails again and the Rogue can get Sneak Attack on his turn.

Option C: The other guy wins Initiative and uses a Move Action to attempt another Spot check to find the hidden Rogue. This time he succeeds and is not considered flat-footed denied his Dex bonus against the Rogue's attacks. No Sneak Attack.

Curmudgeon
2011-02-07, 08:09 AM
Option B: The other guy wins Initiative and uses a Move Action to attempt another Spot check to find the hidden Rogue. This time he succeeds and is not considered flat-footed against the Rogue's attacks.
If the other guy has superior initiative and takes any action (including a move action for another Spot check) he can't be flat-footed. He could be denied DEX bonus to AC, is all.

KillianHawkeye
2011-02-07, 08:27 AM
Same difference.

EDIT: I didn't say he WAS flat-footed, only that he was considered flat-footed from the hidden Rogue's attacks. I know that's not technically accurate, but it's close enough for the purposes of this discussion.

Combat Reflexes
2011-02-07, 08:32 AM
Remember a rogue also has to see the target to get a sneak attack. Nobody gets sneak attacked in thick smog :smallamused:

Curmudgeon
2011-02-07, 08:36 AM
I know that's not technically accurate, but it's close enough for the purposes of this discussion.
Depends on the particular sneak attack build. Since this presupposes an attack from hiding, the Bowslinger feat (which provides a bonus only against flat-footed opponents) isn't an unreasonable option. Getting the details right is why we're answering these questions, isn't it?

KillianHawkeye
2011-02-07, 08:40 AM
Depends on the particular sneak attack build. Since this presupposes an attack from hiding, the Bowslinger feat (which provides a bonus only against flat-footed opponents) isn't an unreasonable option. Getting the details right is why we're answering these questions, isn't it?

A. The OP only mentioned triggering Sneak Attack.
B. I don't know anything about that feat.

That being said, it's always nice to have someone around who appreciates precise language.

Killer Angel
2011-02-07, 08:45 AM
That being said, it's always nice to have someone around who appreciates precise language.

Curmudgeon rulez Q&A by RAW. Some questions should be view as an Efreeti: precise language marks the difference. :smallwink:

FMArthur
2011-02-07, 09:08 AM
If you want to use a more general term for such circumstances you should say "denied Dex to AC", which encompasses but is not limited to flat-footedness. The two are not equivalent and flat-footedness can provide a variety of exclusive benefits even to a sneak-attacker. Like the Dex-to-damage from a dip for the Hit and Run Tactics Fighter ACF, or simply making use of Iaijutsu Focus.

KillianHawkeye
2011-02-07, 09:12 AM
I stand corrected.

Yuki Akuma
2011-02-07, 09:48 AM
Unless you have blindsight or some other way of pinpointing something's position without being able to see them, you don't get Dex to AC against their attacks. Listen checks only give you a vague idea of their direction.

Note that even if you know what square they're in (which a good enough Listen check can do), you still don't get Dex to AC against them, because you still can't tell when they're attacking.

So, basically, if you don't have blindsight, being able to hear someone doesn't matter where sneak attacks are concerned.

candycorn
2011-02-07, 10:09 AM
Other factors can alter this as well. Uncanny dodge will thwart sneak attack, unless the rogue has enough levels to bypass it.

In addition, many would say that blind fight would thwart the rogue if he were making a melee attack from hiding.

Curmudgeon
2011-02-07, 11:05 AM
B. I don't know anything about that feat.
Bowslinger is from Underdark:

Benefit: You gain a +2 bonus on your attack roll when you fire or throw a ranged weapon at a flat-footed opponent. It's a Fighter bonus feat, but I find it's much more useful for bow-using Rogues: they both need the attack bonus and are more likely to be attacking flat-footed foes. (Rogues tend to have high DEX, which boosts initiative; and they can max out Spot and Listen, neither of which are class skills for Fighters.)