[Star Wars Saga] Building Better Baddies

[Lycan 01]

So I'm giving Star Wars Saga another go. Over the years, I've tried it a few times, with mixed results. A few sessions went well, while a few were horrible train wrecks. Confusion with some of the rules and mechanics, coupled with a few rules lawyers and powergamers who abused Jedi and Force Powers and pretty much made a full session impossible to run properly, left me quite disillusioned and discouraged with the system. I eventually just threw my hands up and decided the game simply wasn't worth the trouble when I had other games I understood better and had more fun with.

But, for some reason, I decided a few days ago to give it another shot. I reread the rulebook, and it seems that after years of experience as GM for other RPGs has given me the understanding and insight needed to realize where and how I screwed up with Star Wars Saga. I then came up with an amazing campaign idea, and managed to find several college friends interested in trying out SWS. Sooooo... Looks like I'm giving SWS another go.



However, I still have a few issues. Specifically, with building Encounters and Antagonists. I've got the CL stuff figured out decently. A CL 5 Imperial Office and four CL 1 Stormtroopers are a CL 3 Encounter, for example, which should be a nice challenge for a group of 4 lvl 1 PCs with decent cover. A trio of TIE Fighters are a CL 7 Encounter, but if the PCs have a YT-1300 transport, then that greatly increases the odds for the PCs and probably makes it a CL 2 or 3 Encounter. Simple enough.

But, it seems that while NPCs are challenging as a group, a single baddie is greatly screwed over, even if he has a high CL. Lets say I want the party to face a strong Dark Jedi. They're level 5, but how do I make a CL 5 Encounter out of a single baddie? I mean, if he's a few levels higher than them, he's still going to be easily killed by them teaming up on him. Adversely, a level 15 Dark Jedi would be a CL 5 Encounter... But not only would he probably destroy them with his amazing stats, but think of how RARE a level 15 Dark Jedi is. Obi-Wan Kenobi isn't even that strong! :smalleek:


So yeah... What do I do for an Encounter like that? I just want a cool and dramatic encounter between the party and a single, stronger opponent who will give them a run for their money, but won't result in a blindingly fast TPK. I don't expect the whole party to try and fight him, either. I figure one or two PCs may try to stay out of it, or perhaps I could have them be restrained/unconscious/captured, or otherwise prevented from interfering. Especially if its a Dark Jedi, and only 1-2 PCs are actually Jedi capable of fighting him. Well, I mean, the other characters could fight him, but that kinda ruins the dramatic atmosphere if the random smuggler in the corner starts firing into the epic saber duel. :smallconfused:

[Dienekes]

In my experience, facing 1 big baddy can be a tough fight 1v2 at their level +2, 1v3 at +3-4, 1v4 at +5-6. I have never had more than 4 people in a group of Saga so can't go beyond that.

However, it's generally more interesting in my experience to make the environment favor the bad character. Add mounted turrets that take shots at the PCs, put a time limit to kill him before the guards show up, have the villain go crazy and set a bomb so that half the team has to fight off the villain the other half has to stop the detonation. It makes for a lot more interesting and balanced encounter than a straight fight that relies on adding levels.

[Crossblade]

You kind of answered your own question...
It's a matter of keeping Action Economics balanced.

That's why you don't see 5 jedi on 1 sith in the movies, or how 1 jedi can wipe the floor with a whole battalion of troopers.

The best way is always give the big bad an entourage if you know he'll meet the entire group. Otherwise you'll have to split the group... though if you do the latter, make sure the 2nd half of the party aren't sitting on their hands, a lot of people hate missing out on the action and want to be heros too. Give others something to do, like fighting waves of minions or skill challenges (like in empire, while Luke was fighting Vader, the rest were either lowering the planet/moon side shields or fighting storm troopers)

Now, I'll note I've never played Saga, but this is just generic advice from my experience as a DM.

[Lycan 01]

In my experience, facing 1 big baddy can be a tough fight 1v2 at their level +2, 1v3 at +3-4, 1v4 at +5-6. I have never had more than 4 people in a group of Saga so can't go beyond that.

However, it's generally more interesting in my experience to make the environment favor the bad character. Add mounted turrets that take shots at the PCs, put a time limit to kill him before the guards show up, have the villain go crazy and set a bomb so that half the team has to fight off the villain the other half has to stop the detonation. It makes for a lot more interesting and balanced encounter than a straight fight that relies on adding levels.

I'd prefer to keep it Jedi vs. Jedi, and there will be at least two Force Sensitive PCs who will hopefully become full Jedi by the time the campaign reaches its climax and the BBEG is revealed to be a Dark Jedi. So it should be a 1vs2 fight. But, in the event another PC joins the fray, and just to make sure he'll be a tough challenge that may actually cause a heroic sacrifice or dramatic demise, I'll probably give him +3 levels over them, and a few boosted stats. Max Hit Dice, higher starting Attributes, some tricks up his sleeve, et cetera. I'll find some way to give the other PCs something to do; perhaps the ship they're on is heavily damaged, and they need to go take control and prevent a crash, or they need to rescue some NPC prisoners or something.

Heck, worst case scenario, the BBEG just Mind Tricks them into leaving. XD



That's why you don't see 5 jedi on 1 sith in the movies, or how 1 jedi can wipe the floor with a whole battalion of troopers.

Actually, Darth Sidious took on 4 Jedi Masters, and (semi) won. And Order 66 proved that a Jedi can't take a whole battalion of troops. Master Ki-Adi Mundi got dropped by just a squad, and he even saw it coming. :smalleek:

I get what you're saying, though. Quality and Quantity have a lot to do with an encounter. Still, the Star Wars Nerd in me wanted to throw those examples out there. :smalltongue:


The best way is always give the big bad an entourage if you know he'll meet the entire group. Otherwise you'll have to split the group... though if you do the latter, make sure the 2nd half of the party aren't sitting on their hands, a lot of people hate missing out on the action and want to be heros too. Give others something to do, like fighting waves of minions or skill challenges (like in empire, while Luke was fighting Vader, the rest were either lowering the planet/moon side shields or fighting storm troopers)

Now, I'll note I've never played Saga, but this is just generic advice from my experience as a DM.

They'll meet a few mini-Big Bads along the way, and they'll have entourages. Like, a Dark Jedi Apprentice with a few Stormtrooper Commandos or elite bounty hunters, or a trio of Dark Side Adepts a level or two higher than the PCs.

But for the climactic battle, I want it to be a dramatic "shining moment of Jedi epic" sort of scene. However, I don't want the non-Jedi to be left out of the show. I'll find some way to keep them busy and entertained. But, I don't want them to get involved with the duel and either steal the show with some lucky shots or get themselves killed by Force Lightning to the face. :smalleek:


Oh yeah, I want the BBEG to also be kind of a Lawful Evil Dark Jedi. Like, when it comes to fighting other Jedi, he's the type of noble villain who prefers straight-up saber duels without surprise Force Chokes and other tricks. Unless the opponent pulls a trick on him. Then somebody is getting Force Pushed through a wall. :smallamused: