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Kallisti
2011-02-06, 03:23 PM
So, for a game I'm going to be STing, we're going to have a pretty wide variety of templates. I know there's going to be Hunters and Sin-Eaters, probably a Mage or two, and possibly Vampires, Werewolves, Changelings, or who knows what else.

So I told all of the players to build at basic chargen and that I'd hand out a variable amount of XP, based on the relative strength of the template.

And I need the help of more experienced nWoD nerds than I: what are the relative strengths of the template? As in, how much XP should I award to a Sin-Eater relative to a Changeling, etc? Let's use Seasoned Soldier from Hunter (60 XP and 30 practical XP) as the baseline.

Moosie Madness
2011-02-06, 07:16 PM
This is going to be interesting... But! Having played nWoD from release, lets try. Before we work out xp given to each player, ya need to work out what kind of dice pool you are aiming at (which has to be based upon the players) and what kind of game you are running. For instance; Four dots in dexterity and firearms with a specialisation in handguns, add on a glock you are now throwing around a bullet pool of 11 with 9-again. With equipment and the like you can easily get other skills (Driving, socialising) up there and even higher.

The reason we're doing this is because you could say... Werewolf = combat wombat, THUS doesn't need a tonne of experience, whereas a hunter with the stat line I just gave could plausibly put a silver bullet in a Werewolf without blinking an eyelid (but you could give him more experience because he is mortal). This is the same if you want a game with a dice pool average of 5-8, abilities rule what the character is and isn't capable of, and te,

Onto the game you want to play. Combat, social or both. Lets take a look at Mr.Werewolf who just got shot in the face before he could complain about aggravated silver damage, what if he was designed for a social game? Now our Hunter can shoot the wings off of a fly, but he stutters like a 50 year old engine. The werewolf is now, average in combat but he can out talk the hunter. Who's more powerful? Your style of game can decide.

The third thing to consider... SOME abilities are ridiculously powerful (for the game you are hoping to play), a template isn't that much better then another to go "Welp, they've got this, this and this. Thus they don't need as much xp." Gestalt and Mages are known to be awesome because of some of the things they can do, not all mages can do theses things.

If you haven't given up reading yet, then there is a reasonably easy solution... Well, two. Play a session or two and see what the character are capable of and then hand out xp as you see fit. Or, make a character with the top considerations in mind and the first session instead of playing make them all roughly capable of the same thing (template specific abilities not included). There will always be times in your campaign when a Mage can go "I can do that." doesn't mean Mr.Mage is more powerful then everyone else, xp unbalance is horrendous.

If you have the time, get the character sheets and read up on the things each character can do. Its not hard to work stories to balance encounters out without giving or removing the spotlight from characters. Hope that helped.

Fox Box Socks
2011-02-06, 08:02 PM
I'm going to give advice on each splat. The first one is rather simple.

BAN MAGES FROM YOUR GAME
This may seem harsh at first blush: it isn't. Mages are frighteningly powerful in relation to other splats, and extra experience simply is not going to compensate. The rules for extended casting are cracked beyond repair, and they're only going to get worse as time goes on. Worse, ritual casting ensures that everyone that is not a Mage is horribly exposed to attacks they cannot possibly defend themselves against, and the Mage never has to to leave his basement to do it. If you insist on allowing Mages, you NEED to keep extremely strict control over how much Mana you allow your Mages to have access to. In addition, know that the Mind, Space, Time and Fate Arcana are by far the most broken: nothing breaks games like the ability to rewind time, the ability to throw lightning bolts in New York and have them land in Madrid, or consistent, extensive, and easily accessed mind control. Anyone wanting to play an Acanthus should be told to play something else. Again, the best way to balance Mages is to not allow Mages at your table. If you have someone that absolutely HAS to play a Mage, your best bet is to make them use the rules from Second Sight. If that's not good enough, keep in mind all that has been said and tell him that he is absolutely not allowed to powergame whatsoever.

Sin-Eaters are a slightly different problem: if they're in a mixed party, they're going to have a tough time getting a steady supply of Plasm. A game of Geist assumes that literally everything you do will involve interaction with ghosts, and this is probably not going to be the case in a mixed group. You may have to fudge the rules to allow for a more consistent source: giving the Sin-Eater a free Deathmask is an option, as is simply giving them a point of plasm at the start of every day. Also, the rules for purchasing Keys is are...not very well balanced, so you'll want to tweak them (making the XP cost of a new Key 7 x the number of keys you already have is a good fix). Also also, adjust the Boneyard, which can have a range of several miles at higher dots (example: spend a single point of plasm activating the Industrial Boneyard, then start DROPPING PLANES OUT OF THE SKY ONTO PEOPLE).

Prometheans absolutely, positively require modified Disquiet rules. This is optional. This is not a request. This is mandatory. Either having a major template blocks Disquiet, or use the modified Disquiet rules presented in Magnum Opus. Beyond that, combating the Wasteland effect is actually rather simple: the Promethean owns a van, and sleeps in a different place every night. Also of note is the Refinement of Silver, which is all about observing other supernaturals to learn what makes them tick.

Changelings probably need no modification. Just remember how powerful pledges are: a Vampire can get a blood harem up and running withing a week, but all it takes for a Changeling is a couple of hours. Also, remember that Changelings are the only splat that can refuel in-combat, which can be horribly unbalanced if the players know what they're doing. Moreover, Changeling abilities are cheap and have wonderful symmetry, so careful selection can make for terribly powerful characters (I've seen an Ogre throw around 20 brawl dice. At 0 XP).

Vampires are a little on the weak side, but again, they probably need no modification. Ironically, Vampires are by far the best splat at dealing with other Vampires, who tend to be the most numerous supernaturals. If there's a bloodsucker in the group, this means you'll pretty much only be operating at night, so working other Vampires into the narrative shouldn't be too difficult. Also, try to push Ordo Dracul on your players; a few Coils go a long way towards making Vampires better team players.

Werewolves need XP boosts (how much, I really can't say) if they want to do anything other than being a combat monster. If they want to be the big bruiser types, their various combat hacks from Armory: Reloaded help them big time in the taking damage and tearing things up department. But that's pretty much the only thing they're good for: a stealth-based character or a character that regularly uses offensive Gifts is going to quickly encounter problems. Renown is an ugly throwback to oWoD, and it means that Werewolves suffer from horrible, horrible MAD. Extra XP can help offset that (somewhat).

Hunters probably shouldn't get an XP boost at all. Sure, they're weaker, but that's the point: they're supposed to be weaker than what they're going up against. Lucifuge and Ascending Ones are the only conspiracies that don't have a shoot first and ask questions never policy, so those are probably going to be what you're dealing with on the PC front.

That's...about all I can think of. Hope this is helpful.

EDIT: I have listed the splats in order of power (in relation to other splats: Werewolves are not weak in a game where there is no interaction with other supernaturals, for example). Note that there is a rather large jump in power between Sin-Eathers and Prometheans, between Changelings and Vampires, and between Werewolves and Hunters.

PlasticSoldier2
2011-02-06, 09:19 PM
If anyone wants to read it, my character sheet is at http://sheetgen.dalines.net/sheet/8878?message=true and two sheets from other players can be found at http://sheetgen.dalines.net/sheet/9190?message=true and http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=270939.

lightningcat
2011-02-07, 10:29 AM
BAN MAGES FROM YOUR GAME

yadda, yadda

...he is absolutely not allowed to powergame whatsoever.


As a mage player, the second part is IMO much, MUCH, more important then the first. I've seen the character that never had to leave his basement to do stuff, and it got annoying, fast. And that was in a all mage game.

Whammydill
2011-02-07, 10:35 AM
I've played the mage in a mixed-group nWoD. My character far out-shone every other character and I didn't even go overboard or even aim to do so. I voluntarily gimped myself to not upstage everyone at the table most of the game. Mages need a leash in any game, even mage only games.

Fox Box Socks
2011-02-07, 12:01 PM
The Mage put his dots into Space, Time and Mind, and I can tell already that this is going to be a problem. Outside of a few corner cases, there aren't any real conflicts that can't be solved vie either teleportation, rewinding time back to yesterday, or mind control. If I were the Storyteller, I would express my concerns of powergaming to the guy playing the Mage, because it looks like he's gearing up to tear the game in half.

A few other points I forgot to mention:
- I'm not sure how you're going to deal with Paradox, because that's the Mage's only real weakness, and he's traveling with a group of two mortals that will presumably see everthing he does. Are you allowed to make Hunters count as Sleepwalkers? Because if so, that's an option you should look into

- A member of Network Zero in a mixed-splat group might be...problematic. The various supernaturals prefer to stay in the shadows because it makes their lives significantly easier, and John Allen is going to have to fight the urge to run around telling everyone he knows that he's BFF with two Mages, a descendant of Satan, and a guy that's half ghost. As a Storyteller, you're probably going to need to make sure that John has a damn good reason not to spill the beans about his new friends. Probably the best idea is to give him a long-term incentive: not revealing these people's supernatural abilities will make it easier for him to reveal other people's supernatural abilities somewhere down the line. Still, jam tomorrow only works so long, so be prepared for that. Also know that the rest of his compact will be very very unhappy if they catch wind of what he's up to.

Finally, can we talk about antagonists a bit? Most splats have a few morally unambiguous combatants that work well in any game (Belial's Brood, The Hosts, loyalists and privateers, Centimani, Seers of the Throne, abmortals, Slashers, etc). Their motives tend to be both uncomplicated and morally reprehensible, so it won't be terribly difficult to get, say, a Werewolf all fired up about a few Changeling privateers (after all, everyone hates slavery). Still, my favorite antagonists for these kinds of games are groups with a rather single-minded goal that view the world in terms of black and white: they have a very strong idea of what constitutes good guys and bad guys, and chances are if you disagree with their philosophy you're a bad guy. A few examples:

- VII, specifically Akhud. They're so focused on their goal of bringing vengeance to all of vampirekind that it's very easy for the PCs to get caught in the crossfire, even if there aren't any vampires in your group.

- Banishers. They tend to have a rather...narrow worldview, and it's not that unintuitive a leap for them view any and all supernatural interaction as magic (and, of course, magic is bad).

- The Pure. They're practically Neo-Nazi Werewolves with strong ties to the spirit world (this should send off all kinds of alarm bells for anyone vaguely familiar with how terrifying the Spirit World is) that view Humanity as inherently lesser.

- Changeling Militiamen. They're fanatical, they're armed to the teeth, and they're expecting war. If the party needs something that they have, expect conflict.

- Prometheans. ANY Prometheans.

- My personal favorite are the fanatical Hunter conspiracies: The Order of St George, Les Mysteres, and The Cainite Heresy. Each is a group with a very singular focus (hunting down Mages / Werewolves / Vampires, respectively) and once the party starts digging into the lore of these poor souls, they learn that they're all being either manipulated or acting on inaccurate information. The Order of St George believe that killing mages will help keep "faceless angels" (read: the Abyss) from reawakening. Les Mysteres are basically being duped by various spirits into killing werewolves so that the spirits have an easier time screwing around in the mortal world. The Cainite Heresy are getting their marching orders from...somewhere (possibly other vampires), but they're too angry and nihilistic to care. Setting your party against, say, the Order works great, because the Order is simply too fanatical to care if the mage is surrounded himself with other non-mages; if they know about his true nature and don't immediately reject him, they deserve to die too, lest he corrupt them with promises of magical power.

Again, hope this is helpful.

Kallisti
2011-02-07, 01:46 PM
Thank you all for your replies!

Beginning with the style of the game: that's going to depend on what the players do. There will be some combat no matter what, but they should be able to talk their way past a decent portion of it. Conversely, they could fight their way past most of the talking. But yes, characters should be able to contribute whether they're combat- or social-focused.

As to target dice pools...I think that 5-8 sounds pretty reasonable, although I won't begrudge a specialist a higher pool. For example, the sharpshooter hunter can totally have eleven, twelve, thirteen dice in Guns, but if he also has eleven dice in Brawl with eight again, five Resources so he's loaded down with military-grade hardware, and ten dice in Stealth, we have a problem.

Moosie Madness, I'm not sure I want to start the game before giving them the XP--what I'm trying to decide here is the chargen XP. So for example, since Hunters tend to be somewhat weaker, then they'll need more XP at the beginning of the game so that everyone will start out equal.

Fox Box Socks: Thank you! Having a breakdown of the templates is super helpful.

I'm not sure I want to ban Mages outright, though, but I think I can agree that there needs to be a pretty tight leash on them. Do you think that careful control of his flow of Mana would be enough? Maybe make him function as a kind of superweapon--if the party needs him, he's there, but only if they can get him the time, Mana, and solitude he needs in order to make things happen.

Network Zero...isn't there a subgroup called the Secret Keepers? They recognize that in the Information Age there's no such thing as incontrovertible proof, so shouting the truth from the rooftops is just noise, not signal; they keep what they know in reserve, and they're going to share it when the time is right.

Dealing with Paradox...not sure yet. I was planning to rule that anyone who has relatively intimate knowledge of the supernatural--thus including Hunters--counts as a Sleepwalker. If I understand it correctly, Paradox is what happens when someone who doesn't believe in magic sees a Mage doing his stuff. Their disbelief causes a kind of backlash that can be pretty damn dangerous. If that's about right, then I'd make all of the PCs count as Sleepwalkers, and most if not all of the Supernatural NPCs.

On Geists and Plasm: Fair point, although I was planning for there to be a pretty strong Geist population in the city where the game is set, and I'm fairly certain Sin-Eaters can trade Plasm around; so if he hasn't got time to get his own he can always trade for it.

Antagonists: Oooh...sounds like there's some good ones! I think my personal favorite from that list would be Les Mysteres, because if they're dupes it makes killing them morally ambiguous at best. Although being hounded by the Order would certainly help make up for having a Mage in the group. Sure, he's got magic up the wazoo, but he has to spend a fair portion of it keeping the Hunters off his trail.

Fouredged Sword
2011-02-07, 02:11 PM
Time more so than mana or other things. Time can become mana through stat burning and healing. Encourage him to have low dots in each relm rather than focusing. Don't let him rest during a crisis.

The mage will most annoy you with info gathering abilities and resorce makeing, they have many ways to do both. get him to play a buffing character and you will all have fun though. Life, matter, fate, all have good buffs for groups.

Whammydill
2011-02-07, 02:28 PM
I'm not sure how it is in most people's Mage games, but it seems my ST seems to forget that there should almost always be a sleeper around unless you are clearly in an area devoid of people.

Seems like everytime magic is thrown around the game goes into "Nanoha-mod" A field developes that leaves all the buildings and stuff but people are gone. Really how far can you go in a city without being under the possible scrutiny of a sleeper. Unless you are practicing behind closed doors or fighting in abandoned places all the time, paradox should be a constant worry.

PlasticSoldier2
2011-02-07, 03:09 PM
Hi guys, I happen to be the player of the Network Zero member and in my mind he's not like the stereotypical member who posts videos on the internet and tries to get people to believe that way. He's a lot more subtle, he uses his position as a leader of the local NRA to warn people about the dangers of "wild animals" and "violent criminals" and whenever someone claims to have met such a creature he takes them aside, calms them down, and tells them about the supernatural. Thus, he advances the cause of Network Zero without giving any indication to society, and thus the monsters, that there's anything unusual about him.

Fox Box Socks
2011-02-07, 04:04 PM
I'm not sure I want to ban Mages outright, though, but I think I can agree that there needs to be a pretty tight leash on them. Do you think that careful control of his flow of Mana would be enough? Maybe make him function as a kind of superweapon--if the party needs him, he's there, but only if they can get him the time, Mana, and solitude he needs in order to make things happen.
Keep a close eye not only on Mana, but on Rote selection and distribution of Arcana. Like I said before, Space, Time, Fate and Mind are all ways that Mages can end encounters relatively quickly. Avoiding the 3.5 problem is paramount: you need to find ways to challenge the Mage that don't involve other mages. The Order of St George works well, as do Task Force: VALKYRIE (with the correct selection of Advanced Armory, of course). If you really want to throw the mage a curveball, introduce a Refinement of Silver Nepri with Essence of Salt and Shadow Alchemy that's convinced that slaying mages, interrogating their corpses, and dissecting them is the best way to find humanity. When his spells simply fail to land on the Promethean, the mage should start sweating fairly quickly, especially since given the rarity of Prometheans and the difficulty of scrying this one in particular, he's going to have a difficult time figuring out what it is that's hunting him, let alone how to fight it.


Network Zero...isn't there a subgroup called the Secret Keepers? They recognize that in the Information Age there's no such thing as incontrovertible proof, so shouting the truth from the rooftops is just noise, not signal; they keep what they know in reserve, and they're going to share it when the time is right.
Hunter is the one splat I know the least about, so if he can find a way to make it work, more power to him. Still, I think a fun substory will be John trying to hide his pal's supernatural identities from his superiors in the compact. Sort of like a dark, gothic Weekend at Bernie's.


Dealing with Paradox...not sure yet. I was planning to rule that anyone who has relatively intimate knowledge of the supernatural--thus including Hunters--counts as a Sleepwalker. If I understand it correctly, Paradox is what happens when someone who doesn't believe in magic sees a Mage doing his stuff. Their disbelief causes a kind of backlash that can be pretty damn dangerous. If that's about right, then I'd make all of the PCs count as Sleepwalkers, and most if not all of the Supernatural NPCs.
As I understand nMage, Mages are humans whose souls have awakened to the true reality (the Supernal Realms), and recognize this world for what it is: a lie. Because of their Awakened status, they can call down the Supernal in the form of magic (because Supernal law supercedes the laws of physics). However, the vast majority of the human population has, lodged in their souls, a shard of the Abyss (the gulf between realities). It's not that they don't want to believe, it's that they can't. The Abyss loathes magic, and that shard lashes out at any Mage that tries to work vulgar magic in front of it before scouring it's memory from the mortal's mind.

Paradox doesn't come up withother supernaturals because they're, well, supernatural. They aren't human, not really. Werewolves aren't really human in a strict biological sense, Vampires have long since stopped being human, Prometheans were never human to begin with, Changelings had their humanity torn away from them when they were dragged across the Hedge, and Sin-Eaters are sharing their soul with a grim reaper. For whatever reason, having a major template blocks means not having that shard of the Abyss within you, which means Mages can cast in front of them with impunity.

Being a Sleepwalker is a 4 dot Merit, and it makes the character count as having a template for the purposes of determining Paradox. This means that Mages can work vulgar magic in their presence, but it also means that he is immune to Disbelief: he will remember every bit of the Mage's magic. Sleepwalkers are no more likely to Awaken than any other mortal, so spontaneously awakening isn't more likely just for being one. Mages themselves view Sleepwalkers as useful contacts, allies and informants, if only because (unlike most mortals) they are full aware of what goes on around them in that department.

Giving Sleepwalker to all of your PC Hunters isn't a bad idea, but since you're trying to curb your Mages, make sure that they go up against honest to god humans every once in a while.


Antagonists: Oooh...sounds like there's some good ones! I think my personal favorite from that list would be Les Mysteres, because if they're dupes it makes killing them morally ambiguous at best. Although being hounded by the Order would certainly help make up for having a Mage in the group. Sure, he's got magic up the wazoo, but he has to spend a fair portion of it keeping the Hunters off his trail.
I love Les Mysteres, if only because they're such an obvious dig at New Age Hippie love cults.

"I'm communing with the forest spirits. SURELY the forest spirits are good and positive and nice and would never lie to me, right?...Right?"

Plus, Rites Du Cheval (their Conspiracy Endowment) is downright TERRIFYING if used correctly. Yeah, that fellow Hunter you were just talking to? He just took a shot of bourbon, turned green, and then lit the Mage on fire with his brain.

Lamech
2011-02-07, 04:11 PM
Two of the main hunter shticks are tactics and practical XP. Tactics require a team unless you use the modifications in the slasher book, and a few are ridiculous (staking, harvesting, ect.). Practical XP is weird, how will you deal with that? Hunters will rapidly outpace the others in terms of XP. (Also anyone can get tactics, when a hunter buys a tactic the whole team gets it. But the hunter is the only one who has practical XP, and therefore only one who can buy it.

Changling pacts... yeah these are broken. "So we all agree not to back stab each other on pain of death. Also every other bad thing in the book since by that point its redundant. And we all get a crap ton of buffs."

Mages, yeah they can pull some insanity. You basically have to approve whatever they get. You may want to just ban ritual casting. In fact every single time (that I can recall) I've seen "figure out what you want, then determine the number of successes for the extended action" the game suddenly breaks.

Werewolves: How are you ruling lunacy on the hunter?

Also note that some splats will have attacks that the other side can't do much about. For example if a stray vampire or changling group can't deal with beings from twilight? A single Lucifage familiar could wipe them. Or what about a werewolf that can't fly? How will it deal with a flier? Getting into the hedge is really hard for most splats.

PlasticSoldier2
2011-02-07, 04:44 PM
Still, I think a fun substory will be John trying to hide his pal's supernatural identities from his superiors in the compact. Sort of like a dark, gothic Weekend at Bernie's.


Kalisti was planning to give about 60xp and 30 practical xp to start with, so it would be more likely that I'd be trying to prevent my subordinates from blowing my cover than trying to keep my superiors from kicking me out.


Two of the main hunter shticks are tactics and practical XP. Tactics require a team unless you use the modifications in the slasher book, and a few are ridiculous (staking, harvesting, ect.). Practical XP is weird, how will you deal with that? Hunters will rapidly outpace the others in terms of XP. (Also anyone can get tactics, when a hunter buys a tactic the whole team gets it. But the hunter is the only one who has practical XP, and therefore only one who can buy it.

Werewolves: How are you ruling lunacy on the hunter?

I don't know what Kalisti's doing about tactics but I know he's handing out practical XP. And the "werewolf" is actually one from the skinchangers supplement.

drakir_nosslin
2011-02-07, 04:48 PM
The Mage put his dots into Space, Time and Mind, and I can tell already that this is going to be a problem. Outside of a few corner cases, there aren't any real conflicts that can't be solved vie either teleportation, rewinding time back to yesterday, or mind control. If I were the Storyteller, I would express my concerns of powergaming to the guy playing the Mage, because it looks like he's gearing up to tear the game in half.

Yea, ok. I just found this thread, and I'd like to say a few words... I'm the guy playing the Space/Time/Mind mage. I've never played a WoD mage before. I picked those Arcana because I liked the thought of a non-fighter for once. So, yea. There's no powergaming involved, in fact I had no idea that they were regarded as that strong. The idea is basically to be a information broker, and those are the Arcana that I thought suited best for that role.
Make of that what you will.

Fox Box Socks
2011-02-07, 05:44 PM
Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that you were trying to powergame. Just be aware that the non-combat spells in Mage are actually the really powerful, game-breaking ones.

drakir_nosslin
2011-02-07, 05:51 PM
The Mage put his dots into Space, Time and Mind, and I can tell already that this is going to be a problem. /../ I would express my concerns of powergaming to the guy playing the Mage, because it looks like he's gearing up to tear the game in half.


Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that you were trying to powergame. Just be aware that the non-combat spells in Mage are actually the really powerful, game-breaking ones.

Orly? :smalltongue:

No, just kidding :smallsmile: I understand your concern though and I'll be careful, I have no desire to become an example :smallwink:

Friv
2011-02-07, 05:55 PM
Changling pacts... yeah these are broken. "So we all agree not to back stab each other on pain of death. Also every other bad thing in the book since by that point its redundant. And we all get a crap ton of buffs.".

Remember that Changeling pacts are enforced by the Wyrd, which decides how to enforce them. That means that, as an ST, you are literally within your rights to engineer a situation whose ridiculousness is directly in proportion to how stupid a given pact's mechanics are.

If I put several sanctions together into a low-effort, medium-duration pledge in order to get tons and tons of free bonuses... hoo boy. That is pretty much narratively counting on a major disaster down the road. MAJOR.

Oh, and all of the stats are relational. So a strong argument could be made if you take a Death Sanction, the value of every other Sanction is effectively 0, since they aren't actually able to hurt you any more. It would be like trying to take a Glamour Vunerability from a mortal.

Yuki Akuma
2011-02-07, 05:56 PM
Time is an awesome arcanum for a fightery character.

Acceleteration is awesome.

Kallisti
2011-02-07, 11:32 PM
Remember that Changeling pacts are enforced by the Wyrd, which decides how to enforce them. That means that, as an ST, you are literally within your rights to engineer a situation whose ridiculousness is directly in proportion to how stupid a given pact's mechanics are.

If I put several sanctions together into a low-effort, medium-duration pledge in order to get tons and tons of free bonuses... hoo boy. That is pretty much narratively counting on a major disaster down the road. MAJOR.

Oh, and all of the stats are relational. So a strong argument could be made if you take a Death Sanction, the value of every other Sanction is effectively 0, since they aren't actually able to hurt you any more. It would be like trying to take a Glamour Vunerability from a mortal.

This is a very good point. I don't think the person who expressed interest as a Changeling is still around, but it's still a good point. That's what I like about Changeling--it does a really good job of letting you have as much power as you're willing to pay the price for, but trying to cheat is a really bad idea.

Wings of Peace
2011-02-07, 11:39 PM
I'd keep an eye on the Geists as well. While not as powerful as Mages, it's still pretty easy to outshine other people as a Geist.

Yuki Akuma
2011-02-08, 07:40 AM
They're called Sin-Eaters. Geists are the Gods of Death piggybacking in their souls.