The Superbowl is Gay: A Comparison

[The Vorpal Tribble]

No, don't mean it like THAT. Bear with me, just listen.

I was talking with a guy who LOVES his football. Now, I'm a sports playing guy all my life, but never really understood folks who just go crazy over a team. This 'spectator fervor' that has folks driving across state, spending thousands for tickets, or just devoting an entire day to the phenomena. It's a thing they love for some reason.

We talk and talk and I still don't get it. Finally he says he guesses it's like a fellow trying to explain the appeal of a woman to a guy who likes his men. Or trying to explain skin tones and racism to a blind man.

I don't know that those analogies are worth a hoot, but it made me think.

Still don't 'get it'. I'd assume go toss the ball in the backyard than gather round the tube.

What is it?


Edit: Then again, if you're reading this as of right now instead of watching then you probably aren't the right one to ask :smallwink:

[Nomrom]

For me, this only applies to a certain few teams. Most professional sports just don;t matter to me enough to do more than casually follow my team. However, for college sports, especially football and basketball, I'm almost fanatical. I fully plan to buy season tickets after I graduate so I can keep going to games. If I had time and money I would travel far to watch big games.
As for the Superbowl, a large part of the reason I watch it and have a big party is just for an excuse to hang out with my friends and eat lots of food.

[Sneak]

I don't really get sports either.

I mean, I understand playing sports, even if it's not my favorite activity. It's fun, it's good exercise, whatever. But the connection that a fan makes to his preferred team just seems completely arbitrary and artificial to me. Supposedly, teams are divided up by region, so as a Washington, DC inhabitant, I would be rooting for the Redskins (who I'm told are terrible anyway). But it's not like the players from that team necessarily have any connection with the place they're supposedly playing for. Hell, players get traded all the time. I think.

I can sort of understand watching the game and getting a bit excited when your team does well, and college sports definitely makes more sense to me in that regard, but the whole hardcore, statistics-conscious sports love thing just eludes my understanding.

[AsteriskAmp]

My understanding of sports is a lot better than my understanding of their fans.

Where I live Soccer is the de facto national pastime and people feel extremely attached (read as: there has been riots) to their teams. The thing is that they all suck, my country is the second worst at it at regional level and yet it's a national pastime, in the meanwhile, our volleyball team is recognized at least at regional level, yet it's rarely recognized, ditto for surfing were we used to have the world champion yet it never has been widely accepted, much less accepted as something more than a hobby.

[Emperor Ing]

It's a cultural thing. Sure, I don't follow Football that much, but I understand enough to know what's going on, and I think the Super Bowl, for the most part, is just fun to watch.

[RabbitHoleLost]

For the Superbowl alone, I think a lot of it is an excuse to get drunk and party.
Atleast, for most people here in Oklahoma, since we don't actually have an NFL team.

I mean, I'm sure people like me are from other states and cheer for them still, but, really. Partying.

[Moff Chumley]

People need an excuse to get drunk? v.v

[Em Blackleaf]

I suppose one could look at it from the perspective of high school or college football. Only, one's devotion is to their city/state/country rather than their school. I think it's a bit like nationalism. Yes, we're from (city/state/country) and we produce champions.

Which is not really how anyone perceives a super bowl winner. So I guess I don't understand it. It all seems so knee-jerk. "I like football and this is where I'm from so I'm supposed to like this team. Awesome. Hope they win."

I can only understand playing sports (I'm genuinely terrified of playing football but soccer is fun!) or being a fan of school sports. I have school spirit. Definitely.

[The Vorpal Tribble]

I can only understand playing sports (I'm genuinely terrified of playing football but soccer is fun!) or being a fan of school sports. I have school spirit. Definitely.
What kinda wussy soccer you playing?

I've torn a ligament in my knee, sprained several ankles, cracked a wrist, dislocated my pinky, had sports goggles driven into my cheek so hard it split the muscle, and (accidentally) broken an opponent's nose at least three times playing soccer.

Granted, I'm generally goalie, but still.

Never so much as scraped a knee in football.

[Em Blackleaf]

What kinda wussy soccer you playing?

I've torn a ligament in my knee, sprained several ankles, cracked a wrist, pulled my pinky, drove sports goggles into my cheek and split the muscle, and (accidentally) broken opponent's nose at least three times playing soccer.

Granted, I'm generally goalie, but still.

Never so much as scraped a knee in football.
I've actually only ever played soccer not on a team and as a youngster. :P

But you're right, there is always at least one injured soccer player at my high school. High school. Especially the girls' team. :smalltongue:

[Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll]

Our basketball team is half out based on injuries.

Then again, I go to the sketchiest school in town, so...

I wish we had a football team.

And I generally cheer for the underdog in any given match.

[TheThan]

Just finished watching the super bowl and it turned out to be a pretty good one, despite the lame half time show. But still I don’t get that sort of rampant fanaticism either. It’s one thing to like a team, follow them and support them, but it’s another to develop this sort of crazy fanaticism that so many people have over their favorite sports team.

[Cyrion]

I'd guess part of it is the vicarious thrill. Most guys (sterotypically, as a testosterone thing, but I'm sure women can be included, too) want, at some level, to feel strong-manly-grrrrr. This is not a feeling that most couch potatoes are going to get from their everyday lives, so they manifest that as a sort of hero-worship for sports teams. When you identify with your sports heroes, you get the opportunity to feel strong, fast, dominant, etc., especially if you're team wins.

[Castaras]

To quote Rupert Giles:

"I just think it's rather odd that a nation that prides itself on its virility should feel compelled to strap on forty pounds of protective gear just in order to play rugby."

[Yora]

For the Superbowl alone, I think a lot of it is an excuse to get drunk and party.
I think that's the entire explaination of sport fandom. Or fandom in general. It's a kind of auto-sugestion that you belong to a group of people that is awsome.

[Zen Monkey]

It's a little strange for a bunch of D&D geeks to be confused by a bunch of sports geeks. It's weird for someone to obsess over stats and devote time to discussing a game, right? :smalltongue:

Is there really any difference between debating the merits of one running back over another and debating ways to maximize armor class or whether rangers are better in combat than paladins? 'Kobe Bryant is better than Michael Jordan' is not that different from 'sorcerors are better duelists than wizards.' Following a team over the years, despite players coming and going, isn't all that different than sticking with Dungeons and Dragons over Sewers and Serpents even though the D&D you play today has vastly different components than the D&D you played ten years ago.

In short, everyone's a geek about something. It's just funny when we find our own geeking to be understandable and our neighbor's to be weird.

[Keld Denar]

I dunno about you guys, but I rolled a 20 on my Craft: Nachos check yesterday, the the result was epic. Like, [Nachos], even. Chips, cheese, ground beef, jalapinos, onions, cilantro, sour cream, guacamole, pico, and 2 different salsas. It was definitely a day to pig out. I had that, 2 twenty-two oz bottles of my favorite beers (Ninkasi Brewing Company Total Domination IPA and Tricerahops IPA), and even managed to power nap through the halftime show. All in all, a glorious day!

Oh, and the Packers even won. Yay!

[Admiral Squish]

{Scrubbed}

[Lady Tialait]

For the Superbowl alone, I think a lot of it is an excuse to get drunk and party.
Atleast, for most people here in Oklahoma, since we don't actually have an NFL team.

I mean, I'm sure people like me are from other states and cheer for them still, but, really. Partying.

.....for once me and Rabbit agree. Superbowl is just an excuse to party hardy.

[Pika...]

No, don't mean it like THAT. Bear with me, just listen.

I was talking with a guy who LOVES his football. Now, I'm a sports playing guy all my life, but never really understood folks who just go crazy over a team. This 'spectator fervor' that has folks driving across state, spending thousands for tickets, or just devoting an entire day to the phenomena. It's a thing they love for some reason.

We talk and talk and I still don't get it. Finally he says he guesses it's like a fellow trying to explain the appeal of a woman to a guy who likes his men. Or trying to explain skin tones and racism to a blind man.

I don't know that those analogies are worth a hoot, but it made me think.

Still don't 'get it'. I'd assume go toss the ball in the backyard than gather round the tube.

What is it?


Edit: Then again, if you're reading this as of right now instead of watching then you probably aren't the right one to ask :smallwink:

I completely agree.

Never understood people screaming "we won!!!" when they did nothing but eat chips in front of a screen states away from the 20-so people playing a game somewhere else.

I do not like sports in general, but I can see getting excited when YOU are playing a sport. Makes sense then I feel. It's like someone rooting for a player at a D&D table. I mean, no one would scream in joy dressed in body paint when someone rolls a nat 20 over the TV screen? Now if YOU are tossing the ball and get a touchy down or something you should feel special.

[Joran]

No, don't mean it like THAT. Bear with me, just listen.

I was talking with a guy who LOVES his football. Now, I'm a sports playing guy all my life, but never really understood folks who just go crazy over a team. This 'spectator fervor' that has folks driving across state, spending thousands for tickets, or just devoting an entire day to the phenomena. It's a thing they love for some reason.


Alright, I'll give it a shot: it's for a sense of community. When I go to a hockey game, it's 18K people and me shouting all for common purpose. We feel happy at the same time, we feel sad at the same time. Normally, I never meet any of these people, but it's a shared experience with huge highs and huge lows. Fandoms also start to develop their own vocabulary; my wife knows of whom I'm talking about whenever I mention "hands of stone".

Secondly, it's somewhat like a soap opera or an episodic TV show. Games are on a pretty regular basis and it's exciting to find out what happens next. Of course, most of the time, the results will depress you, but it's something to wile away the time.

Taking it further, once a fan is invested in a team, it can start getting silly. I can pretend to know the players and genuinely like them as people. This is much easier in hockey, where a huge number of players are good ole Canadian boys (see Brooks Laich (http://voices.washingtonpost.com/dcsportsbog/2010/04/brooks_laich_changes_a_tire_af.html)) and you want them to succeed. When they score a goal, they seem genuinely happy. I know I don't know any of them personally, but with a team full of likeable guys, it takes it to a personal level to want them to succeed.

To sum up:
1) Sense of being part of something bigger (sense of community)
2) Excitement over unpredictable results (drama)
3) Personal like of a team (sense of connection)

[Nomrom]

Going along with what Joran said, I remember reading an article comparing sporting events to concerts. It's all designed to get our emotions flowing. The same excitement some people get listening to their favorite band live, others get watching their favorite sports team. In both cases, you're not doing anything more than shouting along with a bunch of other people, but you still feel connected to the performers and everyone else who's watching.

[Mando Knight]

{Scrub the post, scrub the quote}

But not entirely true. See, it's professional hockey that's about guys beating the stuffing out of each other. Football is about just knocking the other guy over so he can't run away from you.

[HalfTangible]

Do you have an aspect of nerdom that you go gaga over? It's like that. A wise man once said, "Everything in sports culture has a comparable analogue (http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/the-big-picture/2522-A-Nerd-By-Any-Other-Name) in geek culture. Chicago Cubs? Spiderman. Superman? Babe Ruth. Fantasy Football? Dungeons and Dragons."

[Joran]

Do you have an aspect of nerdom that you go gaga over? It's like that. A wise man once said, "Everything in sports culture has a comparable analogue (http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/the-big-picture/2522-A-Nerd-By-Any-Other-Name) in geek culture. Chicago Cubs? Spiderman. Superman? Babe Ruth. Fantasy Football? Dungeons and Dragons."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0TBusqMaCEM

Nerds.

[The Vorpal Tribble]

Do you have an aspect of nerdom that you go gaga over?
...no. Not really. At least nothing approaching other folks going over their sports.

[VeisuItaTyhjyys]

I, personally, just believe moderation to the very worst thing in the world. If you're going to watch sports, you had better be fanatical about one of the teams playing, even if just for the duration of that game.

Otherwise, it's like just having one drink. Why don't you just die of old age and save time the trouble?

[ForzaFiori]

It's like school level sports, but bigger. For instance, at my college (Clemson), the top players are Da'Quan Bowers, Marcus Gilcrest, Jamie Harper, DeAndre Hopkins, and Jarvis Jenkins. Bowers is from the other side of the state, Gilcrest and Harper are from out of state, and Hopkins and Jenkins are from close by. But it doesn't matter where they're from. What matters is that they're playing for Clemson, which is my school, and I pull for them because it's MY school. the same thing applies at higher levels too. I pull for the Carolina Panthers, even if not a single player on the roster is from Carolina, because they represent my state. Then there's also cases of pulling for a team because an idol of yours plays for them. For instance, Troy Palamalu plays for the Pittsburgh Steelers. I have nothign to do with Pittsburgh, but when I played football, Palamalu was one of my main idols. So I pull for the Steelers, because that's his team. If he switched to a different team, I'd probably pull for them.

However, I'd like to point out that only my College football fandom is really "fanatical".

[Knaight]

Do you have an aspect of nerdom that you go gaga over? It's like that. A wise man once said, "Everything in sports culture has a comparable analogue (http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/the-big-picture/2522-A-Nerd-By-Any-Other-Name) in geek culture. Chicago Cubs? Spiderman. Superman? Babe Ruth. Fantasy Football? Dungeons and Dragons."
Said video left out some of the extremely fanatical sides to sports. There have been sport related riots, and a fair few of them. Find anything "nerdy" that parallels that.

[VeisuItaTyhjyys]

An elephant was killed in the battle between AC and DC, which is a lot sadder than a bunch of businesses getting robbed and cars getting burnt. I'm sure a few people die in riots, too, but let's be honest, we all have it coming. Elephants are cute and not d-bags.

[averagejoe]

Do you have an aspect of nerdom that you go gaga over? It's like that. A wise man once said, "Everything in sports culture has a comparable analogue (http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/the-big-picture/2522-A-Nerd-By-Any-Other-Name) in geek culture. Chicago Cubs? Spiderman. Superman? Babe Ruth. Fantasy Football? Dungeons and Dragons."

Physical aggression to assert dominance? Intellectual aggression to assert dominance.

@ the OP: I've heard it said that physical competition fulfills much the same psychological niche as watching combatants fight, which is something you want your team to win because it secures your side resources, prestige, and so on. A lot of that kind of thing is probably ivory-tower intellectualism, but there might be a ring of truth there. However, I have trouble being fanatical about anything, so it isn't something I really understand either.

[VeisuItaTyhjyys]

Give me an arbitrary signifier!
Give me an arbitrary signifier!
Give me an aribtrary signifier!
. . .
Give me an arbitrary signifier!

What does that spell? Post-structuralism!

[Knaight]

An elephant was killed in the battle between AC and DC, which is a lot sadder than a bunch of businesses getting robbed and cars getting burnt. I'm sure a few people die in riots, too, but let's be honest, we all have it coming. Elephants are cute and not d-bags.

That has less to do with nerdiness and more to do with the fact that certain corporations are run by amoral scum.

[An Enemy Spy]

As an avid Seahawks fan and a casual at best D&D fan, I find myself on the other side of this discussion. For the life of me, I will never understand why you could possibly want to make long threads discussing the finer points of skill maximization and class tiers, and which multiclass thingy goes with another and all that jazz. When I play, I just try to have fun and don't worry too much about how optimized my guy is. Whatever. That's not the point of this discussion.

As I mentioned earlier, I am a fan of one particular team, that being the Seattle Seahawks. There is no other team (except the huskies to a lesser extent) that I really care all that much about. There is a plethora of reasons for this, region being among them. When you follow a sports team, it's rather like following a tv series, only the characters are real people, making it that much more special. You have your main stars who make up the bulk of the cast and have been there for a while, like Matt Hasselbeck, Marcus Trufant and the like. Then there's the new members who really make an impression on you, like Mike Williams. As you watch them more and more, you remember both their greatest triumphs, like the NFC Championship against the Panthers, and their worst defeats, like Superbowl XL when they faced the Refs. The Steelers were there too I think, but the refs were the main antagonist.

You know their enemies, the Rams, The Cardinals, the 49ers. Those bastard 49ers. A season isn't just a series of games, it's a story, and the outcome is never certain until the very end. And as years go by and the team evolves, the story continues And the more you watch, the more you realize just how thrilling the overall tale is. It's exhilarating.

But then, that's just me.

[Coidzor]

I'm just still confused by the title choice myself. :smallconfused:

I don't really have much to contribute beyond the pedestrian "people like having something they belong to that's both bigger than themselves and can actually accomplish some sort of goal even if it's just winning a game or moving the ball from point a to point b in an impressive way," hypothesis.

VeisuItaTyhjyys: Heh. Not anymore, they're not. We're making elephants meaner and worse than ever before.

[Killer Angel]

We talk and talk and I still don't get it. Finally he says he guesses it's like a fellow trying to explain the appeal of a woman to a guy who likes his men. Or trying to explain skin tones and racism to a blind man.


Your friend is right.
I suggest the reading of Nick Hornby's "Fever Pitch". Here's a quote:
"I fell in love with football as I was later to fall in love with women: suddenly, inexplicably, uncritically, giving no thought to the pain or disruption it would bring with it".
Alternatively, you can watch the movie (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=35_Tafe762A&feature=related).

When this "love", this "passion", becomes too deep, then it's a almost a mental disease.

[Erts]

Okay, I just made a similar post on Dr. Epic's Fantasy Football = D&D thread, so I'm posting here it here.

While I understand the title choice, it makes D&D just as "GAY" (by that, if I understand your point, having an attraction to something that you can't understand if you don't have it).
As for the appeal of sports, it's simply entertaining to watch players, to follow a story of a team or an athelete. It is cathartic to watch your team win a championship, (an experience of emotional response felt alongside characters) in the same way finally getting to find the mythical treasure when your character started off as a poor city boy trying to pay for his family is in D&D.

I'm sick of the "Jock vs Geek" stereotype. It was dated and unrealistic in the 80s when it started showing up, and it remains dated.
I like sports. I like being in good shape. I like being able to run two miles comfortably, lift 300 pounds off the ground, and will probably live longer for it.
I also like D&D. I like statistics. I like trivia, I like animated shows even at my age, and reading a fantasy book for a long amount of time seems like a good pursuit of me.

Why do these have to not go together? What part of either of them makes me unable to do both?
Please, someone answer me, and soon,
A "jocky" nerd.

EDIT: 300 pounds, not 400. Typos don't do well for my argument.

[VeisuItaTyhjyys]

That has less to do with nerdiness and more to do with the fact that certain corporations are run by amoral scum.

If one runs a corporation, one is either very lucky or a nerd.

[Erts]

Any answer?

[KuReshtin]

I don't see any reason why the two can not be enjoyed by the same person.

Hell, I played American Football for about 7 years before I crossed over to instead start officiating.

I regularly have weekends where I spend an entire Saturday playing DnD or board games, get home at about 2AM, then get back up at 8AM on the Sunday morning to head off to officiate a football game.
I have also been to a UKitP meetup down in England on the Saturday, and on my way back up north stopped off to officiate a football game.

The two can live together. Do not have to be exclusive.

[An Enemy Spy]

Any answer?

Because stereotypes make for easy character conflict.
You're completely right of course. Just look at this (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=sports) Urban Dictionary page for "sports". It's almost nothing but people whining about how sports are stupid and only uneducated drug addicts like them. Probably because they failed all their PE classes as kids.

[AshDesert]

As I mentioned earlier, I am a fan of one particular team, that being the Seattle Seahawks Green Bay Packers. <snip> There is a plethora of reasons for this, region being among them. When you follow a sports team, it's rather like following a tv series, only the characters are real people, making it that much more special. You have your main stars who make up the bulk of the cast and have been there for a while, like Matt Hasselbeck Aaron Rodgers, Marcus Trufant Clay Matthews and the like. Then there's the new members who really make an impression on you, like Mike Williams James Starks. <snip>

You know their enemies, the Rams, The Cardinals, the 49ers the Vikings, the Lions *snort*, the Bears. Those bastard 49ers FIB Bears. A season isn't just a series of games, it's a story, and the outcome is never certain until the very end. And as years go by and the team evolves, the story continues And the more you watch, the more you realize just how thrilling the overall tale is. It's exhilarating.

*My changes in red and dashes*.

I would contribute to the conversation, but Enemy Spy described me so well that there's nothing I could really add.

[Erts]

The two can live together. Do not have to be exclusive.

My lifestyle proves that, but, still, why is there this attitude in nerd culture hating sports so much? Why why why why?


Because stereotypes make for easy character conflict.
You're completely right of course. Just look at this (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=sports) Urban Dictionary page for "sports". It's almost nothing but people whining about how sports are stupid and only uneducated drug addicts like them. Probably because they failed all their PE classes as kids.

Sad answer? Maybe so. :smallsigh:

[Moff Chumley]

My lifestyle proves that, but, still, why is there this attitude in nerd culture hating sports so much? Why why why why?

Getting constant crap from people in football jerseys or whatever you call 'em from an early age has something to do with it. >.>

[Asta Kask]

My lifestyle proves that, but, still, why is there this attitude in nerd culture hating sports so much? Why why why why?

Humans are social creatures. We like being in clearly defined groups, united by what we love and hate. Yes, there are people combining the 'nerd' and 'jock' lifestyles, but they are rather rare. Therefore, putting down 'jocks' is a rather safe and non-controversial way to show that one is part of the group.

Also, nerds tend to get reminded on a daily basis that it would really be healthier for them if they got more exercise. However, humans are lazy creatures and we don't want to change our lifestyle unless absolutely forced to. The jocks then become a symbol of something we know we should do, but don't do. As such, there is a whole complex nest of bad conscience emanating from the jock direction. To defend that, we ridicule them.

Or the short version - deal with it, it's human nature.

[Erts]

Humans are social creatures. We like being in clearly defined groups, united by what we love and hate. Yes, there are people combining the 'nerd' and 'jock' lifestyles, but they are rather rare. Therefore, putting down 'jocks' is a rather safe and non-controversial way to show that one is part of the group.

Also, nerds tend to get reminded on a daily basis that it would really be healthier for them if they got more exercise. However, humans are lazy creatures and we don't want to change our lifestyle unless absolutely forced to. The jocks then become a symbol of something we know we should do, but don't do. As such, there is a whole complex nest of bad conscience emanating from the jock direction. To defend that, we ridicule them.

Or the short version - deal with it, it's human nature.

I wouldn't say they are rare, in fact, I'd dispute the existence of the stereotype at all. Most of the people (at least, at my high school) who were bullies weren't huge football players, rather, they were guys who were sometimes into sports but not really dedicated to them.

Most of my friends were nerds (at least, smart and able to hold their own in a conversation with a topic other than girls, partying, or sports) in high school, and this is still true in college. But while most of us don't tend to stay in shape much (college and all), some of us, at least more than a third, work out a great deal. Sure, we do it for reasons that others might not (instead of trying to get giant biceps to attract girls in our white sleeveless muscle shirts), we might just want to be Crazy Prepared, if we're mugged, there's a fire, zombie apocalypse, or we need to be Batman.
And, when you are in shape, you feel good. Quality of life goes up, the trivial things that we all must do are easier. Such as going up a flight of stairs, or running when you are late, or fighting off a pack of rabid wolves.
I can completely understand why some nerds don't want to stay in shape, not wanting to put the time in, having busy and hectic lives, or instead try to devote there lives to other pursuits. But, please, don't assume that just because someone likes staying in good physical shape that they are a steroid pumping, geek hating, insecure jerk. This may seem like a stupid request, but I have seen it at many a nerd gathering.

I like to imagine a future where being in shape and being interested in nerdy things are not mutually exclusive.

[AshDesert]

I would say that while there are stereotypical nerds and jocks in the world, they are rarer than many would believe. The jock stereotype especially is something I've found maybe one example of in high school. In fact, most of the guys on the football team here are really smart and some of the nicest guys you'll meet. Also, while there are neckbeards at my school, my group is mostly "normal" people who happen to like "nerdy" stuff like RPGs and comics, and no one really gives us grief over it.

[Traab]

No, don't mean it like THAT. Bear with me, just listen.

I was talking with a guy who LOVES his football. Now, I'm a sports playing guy all my life, but never really understood folks who just go crazy over a team. This 'spectator fervor' that has folks driving across state, spending thousands for tickets, or just devoting an entire day to the phenomena. It's a thing they love for some reason.

We talk and talk and I still don't get it. Finally he says he guesses it's like a fellow trying to explain the appeal of a woman to a guy who likes his men. Or trying to explain skin tones and racism to a blind man.

I don't know that those analogies are worth a hoot, but it made me think.

Still don't 'get it'. I'd assume go toss the ball in the backyard than gather round the tube.

What is it?


Edit: Then again, if you're reading this as of right now instead of watching then you probably aren't the right one to ask :smallwink:

The same difficulty applies to explaining to someone about your absolute favorite hobby, when he doesnt share your love of it. I could talk about how much I love playing chess in my club till im blue in the face to someone that isnt interested, and they would never really get it. How could they> They dont share my interests.

[Crow]

EDIT: 300 pounds, not 400. Typos don't do well for my argument.

Psssh...If you're deadlifting 300, you're not far off from 400! =)

[GolemsVoice]

I'm generally not a sports type, and not a football type, but whenever Germany plays in the European or the World Championship, I watch the game, and, despite myself, I get excited, cheering for each goal like it was the cure for cancer, booing at unfair moves, discussing strategies like I had any idea what I'm saying. But, honestly, I can't explain why. Maybe it's the crowd, the shared exitement?

[Dvandemon]

For me, a general rule is involvement, as in, "I'd rather play than watch, even if I'm not that good at it". I'm not sure whether it's because I was a young and rebellious 6 and wanted to go against the majority of my family or because I had no idea what the heck was going on with all the people running around making my mommy scream like a maniac. Although recently in P.E. between basketball matches I saw the appeal of front row seats, honestly, I can't imagine myself becoming so emotionally invested in just watching something. I guess it's like watching your favorite show where the villain wins *shrug*
It's a little strange for a bunch of D&D geeks to be confused by a bunch of sports geeks. It's weird for someone to obsess over stats and devote time to discussing a game, right? :smalltongue:

Is there really any difference between debating the merits of one running back over another and debating ways to maximize armor class or whether rangers are better in combat than paladins? 'Kobe Bryant is better than Michael Jordan' is not that different from 'sorcerors are better duelists than wizards.' Following a team over the years, despite players coming and going, isn't all that different than sticking with Dungeons and Dragons over Sewers and Serpents even though the D&D you play today has vastly different components than the D&D you played ten years ago.

In short, everyone's a geek about something. It's just funny when we find our own geeking to be understandable and our neighbor's to be weird.

Yeah, but that's virtually the same kind of appeal behind Fantasy Sports teams, you actually get to participate and test your skills and know-how. So, the two kinds of geekery can't really be compared in that respect.

[An Enemy Spy]

I'm generally not a sports type, and not a football type, but whenever Germany plays in the European or the World Championship, I watch the game, and, despite myself, I get excited, cheering for each goal like it was the cure for cancer, booing at unfair moves, discussing strategies like I had any idea what I'm saying. But, honestly, I can't explain why. Maybe it's the crowd, the shared exitement?

So that's like one cheer a game right? Unless there's a 0-0 tie. I bet the reason soccer has no overtime is that you would have to watch an entire other game to see a score! :smallwink:

[KuReshtin]

So that's like one cheer a game right? Unless there's a 0-0 tie. I bet the reason soccer has no overtime is that you would have to watch an entire other game to see a score! :smallwink:

Soccer does have overtime, but it's mainly for playoff games in tournaments, rather than regular league games.

Let's try to not stray into the "my sport is better than your sport" discussion, because it never ends well.

[An Enemy Spy]

Soccer does have overtime, but it's mainly for playoff games in tournaments, rather than regular league games.

Let's try to not stray into the "my sport is better than your sport" discussion, because it never ends well.

I was joking.

[Om]

One of the fondest memories I hold is standing on a rain-swept terrace in a crumbling stadium on a freezing November night surrounded by tens of thousands of Irishmen as we watched Ireland beat Australia in rugby. Call it passion, call it community (or communion), call it whatever; there is nothing else like it in this world. When the roar of the crowd goes through you... its impossible to put into words. For me at least

As for following teams, like any addiction you form an attachment early and then it becomes a constant in your life. Sure, the players are overpaid mercenaries but you still obsess over their form and injuries and hope that they have enough hunger to stay in the league. Sport is all about irrational likes/dislikes but club/county attachments can run extremely deep when they are such a part of the local culture. That said, I've often wondered how US fans can sustain the same enthusiasm given that their domestic teams are largely commercial franchises that aren't embedded in the local community in the same way as, say, soccer clubs are elsewhere


So that's like one cheer a game right? Unless there's a 0-0 tie. I bet the reason soccer has no overtime is that you would have to watch an entire other game to see a score! :smallwink:Out of curiosity, and I swear that I'm not trying to start anything here, do all good plays in American Football (or other US sports) end up in scores? It just seems like a very strange way of gauging the quality of the game. I've seen plenty of excellent 0-0 draws in soccer. Good attacking moves might be let down by poor finishing, excellent defending, a wild pass, an in-form keeper, etc, but this doesn't detract from the quality of the football that preceded the thwarted shot

[Crow]

I think a 0-0 game in soccer looks great because it is often the result of excellent defensive play. You see guys like Sergio Ramos who are just electrifying with their defensive play.

NFL football has the same thing though, it's just harder to follow because so much attention gets placed on touchdowns and such. The casual american football fan doesn't follow the intricacies of well-executed defense. As such defensive struggles turn these fans off.

Just like baseball. Many people could watch a man throw a perfect game and say it was the most boring game they've ever seen. They don't care about changing speeds, pitch location, and outfield shifts. They want to see homeruns.

[snoopy13a]

Out of curiosity, and I swear that I'm not trying to start anything here, do all good plays in American Football (or other US sports) end up in scores? It just seems like a very strange way of gauging the quality of the game. I've seen plenty of excellent 0-0 draws in soccer. Good attacking moves might be let down by poor finishing, excellent defending, a wild pass, an in-form keeper, etc, but this doesn't detract from the quality of the football that preceded the thwarted shot

Baseball is similar is that a 1-0 game can be seen as a great game. Usually, a low scoring baseball game has excellent pitching and maybe some great fielding. Baseball also has the maxims, "great pitching beats great hitting" and "pitching wins championships." So, a low-scoring game is viewed as a positive by the sports media and the more educated fanbase (some of the more casual fans only like homeruns).

In football though, a low scoring game is usually viewed as ineptness by both teams. That's because a great defensive effort by one team gives a great advantage to their offense by setting them up with excellent field position. Thus, a low scoring football is normally seen as both teams playing poorly.

Basketball is a high scoring game by nature so it doesn't really fit into the discussion. With hockey (which is more of a Canadian sport) it can go either way depending on whether or not the goalies are making impressive saves.

[Cerlis]

It's a little strange for a bunch of D&D geeks to be confused by a bunch of sports geeks. It's weird for someone to obsess over stats and devote time to discussing a game, right? :smalltongue:

Is there really any difference between debating the merits of one running back over another and debating ways to maximize armor class or whether rangers are better in combat than paladins? 'Kobe Bryant is better than Michael Jordan' is not that different from 'sorcerors are better duelists than wizards.' Following a team over the years, despite players coming and going, isn't all that different than sticking with Dungeons and Dragons over Sewers and Serpents even though the D&D you play today has vastly different components than the D&D you played ten years ago.

In short, everyone's a geek about something. It's just funny when we find our own geeking to be understandable and our neighbor's to be weird.

thank you for posting. though not answering every minute detail of the subject. i think its enough to show just cus you dont "get it" doesnt mean there is anything weird about it.


Never understood people screaming "we won!!!" when they did nothing but eat chips in front of a screen states away from the 20-so people playing a game somewhere else.

because it was THEIR team:smallconfused: no different than being happy for your kid winning, or being on the team and them winning even though you sat on the bench the entire game. its no different than being proud cus some person from your country did something wonderful and got in the news and you are all proud of your countrymen.

Its called brotherhood.

I dont get into sports.

But answer me this, why wouldnt you? (or rather. that is. I'm confused why yall are confused by it.)


ps.

...no. Not really. At least nothing approaching other folks going over their sports.

Just like how many people dont care what happens at the game table. but most people will get real emotional if someone steals the show, or kills their character. Heck people have gone crazy over games. My friend and roomate had a (extremely passive aggressive) fight over Magic the gathering, and someone here has spoken of someone pulling a knife on someone when their character was killed.

nerds of all kinds , are nuts.

[An Enemy Spy]

One of the fondest memories I hold is standing on a rain-swept terrace in a crumbling stadium on a freezing November night surrounded by tens of thousands of Irishmen as we watched Ireland beat Australia in rugby. Call it passion, call it community (or communion), call it whatever; there is nothing else like it in this world. When the roar of the crowd goes through you... its impossible to put into words. For me at least

As for following teams, like any addiction you form an attachment early and then it becomes a constant in your life. Sure, the players are overpaid mercenaries but you still obsess over their form and injuries and hope that they have enough hunger to stay in the league. Sport is all about irrational likes/dislikes but club/county attachments can run extremely deep when they are such a part of the local culture. That said, I've often wondered how US fans can sustain the same enthusiasm given that their domestic teams are largely commercial franchises that aren't embedded in the local community in the same way as, say, soccer clubs are elsewhere

Out of curiosity, and I swear that I'm not trying to start anything here, do all good plays in American Football (or other US sports) end up in scores? It just seems like a very strange way of gauging the quality of the game. I've seen plenty of excellent 0-0 draws in soccer. Good attacking moves might be let down by poor finishing, excellent defending, a wild pass, an in-form keeper, etc, but this doesn't detract from the quality of the football that preceded the thwarted shot

Not by any means. For example, in Superbowl XLII, the most famous and spectacular play of the game was when Eli Manning escaped a sack from the Patriots' defensive line and threw a desperation pass to David Tyree, who had to jump up and grab it at the same time as a defender, and secured the ball by pinning it to his helmet.Here it is (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JNUkUCknT90)
It wasn't touchdown and the Giants were still behind, but right there, you knew that they had won.
Thing is, if the incredible play doesn't set up a score, what does it mean? Nothing.
And if you doubt American fans' dedication, watch this play. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QNKscdUULSU&feature=related) The cheering caused an actual earthquake.

[Om]

Thanks Crow and snoopy13a. Its always good to learn more about another culture/country and very little is known about US sports (basketball excepted) in Europe


Thing is, if the incredible play doesn't set up a score, what does it mean? NothingAn "incredible play" remains an incredible play regardless of whether or not it puts points on the board. The skill/vision/drive/etc of the move does not lose any 'incredibleness' for lack of a goal. It may mean nothing when it comes to the final score but for the viewer the pleasure of having witnessed such an "incredible play" remains regardless

To give an example, if I watch Maradona or Messi (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wit6Pp7l3Lw) take the ball in their own half, move forward with speed and consummate skill, go round three or four defenders and then beat the keeper, does it really matter to me if the ball ends up in the back of the net? The lack of goal in no way invalidates the joy taken from witnessing the feat. Same with rugby where a fantastic line break (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XVpt3sOJdxQ&feature=related) remains an incredibly exciting and entertaining sight regardless of whether the player is brought down just before the line and the ball subsequently cleared

Again, it may be different in American Football but it makes no sense from a European perspective to simply write a game or phase of play off because of a lack of goals


And if you doubt American fans' dedication, watch this play. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QNKscdUULSU&feature=related) The cheering caused an actual earthquake.I don't, I just wonder how such enthusiasm can be generated for outfits that are either a few decades old or have been imported from other cities. This is as opposed to the more organic club model that predominates elsewhere in the world

[KuReshtin]

Thanks Crow and snoopy13a. Its always good to learn more about another culture/country and very little is known about US sports (basketball excepted) in Europe


I would have to argue that point.
There are a lot of people in Europe that follow American Football, Baseball and Ice Hockey (even if it's a Canadian sport), it's just that the people who don't follow it seem to think that no one else does.

There's a reason why the NFL decided to play one regular season game each year in London. Getting Wembley stadium sold out (80.000 seats) in a matter of hours of the tickets being released, and usually they get about 150.000-200.000 pre-registrations for the tickets before they're released at all. Germany and Austria have very good semi-professional leagues.

Ice hockey is very popular in Scandinavia, Germany and a lot of the eastern European countries (Russia, Czech republic, Slovakia) and is starting to get more popular in the UK as well.

Baseball would be the sport that I believe have the fewest participants in Europe, and I'm not too familiar with the baseball crowd in Europe, so I can't say too much about it.

[Crow]

There's a reason why the NFL decided to play one regular season game each year in London.

Two now, their saying. I can't remember off the top of my head, but I believe they might have played two last season.

[KuReshtin]

Only one last season. 49ers vs Broncos.
Pats vs Bucs in 2009.
Chargers vs Saints in 2008.
Giants vs Dolphins in 2007.

There are rumours that there might be a game played in Ireland in the next year or two, with the Steelers as one of the teams. Likely, this would come to fruition since one of the Rooneys is currently the US ambassador to Ireland.

Edit: The Bills have started playing one game each season in Toronto, as well, BTW. HOwever, those games don't count as part of the 'International Series' games that are currently played yearsly in London.

[An Enemy Spy]

Thanks Crow and snoopy13a. Its always good to learn more about another culture/country and very little is known about US sports (basketball excepted) in Europe

An "incredible play" remains an incredible play regardless of whether or not it puts points on the board. The skill/vision/drive/etc of the move does not lose any 'incredibleness' for lack of a goal. It may mean nothing when it comes to the final score but for the viewer the pleasure of having witnessed such an "incredible play" remains regardless

To give an example, if I watch Maradona or Messi (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wit6Pp7l3Lw) take the ball in their own half, move forward with speed and consummate skill, go round three or four defenders and then beat the keeper, does it really matter to me if the ball ends up in the back of the net? The lack of goal in no way invalidates the joy taken from witnessing the feat. Same with rugby where a fantastic line break (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XVpt3sOJdxQ&feature=related) remains an incredibly exciting and entertaining sight regardless of whether the player is brought down just before the line and the ball subsequently cleared

Again, it may be different in American Football but it makes no sense from a European perspective to simply write a game or phase of play off because of a lack of goals

I don't, I just wonder how such enthusiasm can be generated for outfits that are either a few decades old or have been imported from other cities. This is as opposed to the more organic club model that predominates elsewhere in the world

You misunderstood. An incredible play is an incredible play no matter what. But it does not make an incredible game if nothing actually important happens in it. Two teams could have the most high-flying, incredible struggle that you've ever seen and score nothing, or they could stand around making small talk for three hours. If nothing is scored, than all that effort is wasted. Nothing has actually been accomplished. That is the reason I can't get into soccer. I'm saying soccer is bad, just that it doesn't interest me personally.
And what's wrong with our uniforms? We have perfectly good uniforms.

[Om]

There's a reason why the NFL decided to play one regular season game each year in LondonYes: money :smallwink:

I take your point that there is an appetite for US sports in Europe but outside of ice hockey - you're perfectly correct there - they remain marginal sports. And have done for decades now; the NFL was talking about its European 'breakthrough' in the 1980s! Look outside of this small niche however and my statement stands. A far more telling illustration of this than people flocking to see a spectacle in Wembley is the collapse of the British AF League (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_American_Football_League) last year


Two teams could have the most high-flying, incredible struggle that you've ever seen and score nothing, or they could stand around making small talk for three hours. If nothing is scored, than all that effort is wasted. Nothing has actually been accomplishedExcept that you've been entertained by "the most high-flying, incredible struggle that you've ever seen". Doesn't that count for anything?

[An Enemy Spy]

Yes: money :smallwink:

I take your point that there is an appetite for US sports in Europe but outside of ice hockey - you're perfectly correct there - they remain marginal sports. And have done for decades now; the NFL was talking about its European 'breakthrough' in the 1980s! Look outside of this small niche however and my statement stands. A far more telling illustration of this than people flocking to see a spectacle in Wembley is the collapse of the British AF League (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_American_Football_League) last year

Except that you've been entertained by "the most high-flying, incredible struggle that you've ever seen". Doesn't that count for anything?

For a while. But it would be incredibly frustrating if nothing actually came of it. Like going to an AC/DC concert and them not playing Back In Black.

[Crow]

You have to put it in perspective. I am a Chargers fan, and they have not won a superbowl yet. Arguably, the whole point of the the nfl season for a team is to win a superbowl. It has reached the point for me, that if they do not reach the superbowl, it doesn't matter how well they have played all season. It was ultimately a failure. I swear, it was almost better when the Chargers just sucked.

Now this discounts things like player progression and development. But after a lifetime of progression and development, and without a win in the big game, I would rather the team tank the season and have a good draft next year, than get into the playoffs but ultimately fail to advance.

What makes a play great, like a great season, is the implications of that play/season. Does it set up the win? Does it set up the loss? If it ultimately had no effect, then it was meaningless.

Granted the great play could set up a tie...but that's not particularly exciting except for averting the loss. If the tie results in getting the team to advance to the ultimate goal (or preventing the other team from doing so), then that is another story.

[KuReshtin]

Yes: money :smallwink:

I take your point that there is an appetite for US sports in Europe but outside of ice hockey - you're perfectly correct there - they remain marginal sports. And have done for decades now; the NFL was talking about its European 'breakthrough' in the 1980s! Look outside of this small niche however and my statement stands. A far more telling illustration of this than people flocking to see a spectacle in Wembley is the collapse of the British AF League (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_American_Football_League) last year


Just quoting that the BAFL collapsed doesn't really paint the real picture, and is the error of trying to prove a point you aren't really knowledgable in.
I can assure you that the British American Football scene was fully up and running last season, and will be so this season, just under a different name.

The BAFL was disbanded after there were people in the BAFL board of directors who decided they didn't like to be governed by the National Governing Body (BAFA - British American Football Association).
The problem with the BAFL trying to break away from BAFA was that if they did, the teams would not be eligible to play in European club championships, they would most likely not be eligible to get grants for equipment and stuff.
Since the BAFA got this point across, none of the teams backed the BAFL breakaway, and the BAFL as an entity fell apart.

However, the season went ahead under the new, BAFA Community League name instead. All the teams that were previously playing under the BAFL are now playing in the BAFACL, and nothing's really changed, except for the name of the league and the board of directors.
The BAFACL will have 50 teams cpompeting for the 2011 season divided into three divisions (Premier, Div 1 and Div 2).

In the UK, there's also the BUAFL, which is the university league, which is in full swing at the moment. In fact, in the UK, there are only about 3 months of the year where there is no American Football being played.

So, yes, American Football os still a minority sport in the UK, but it still has a thriving community with more teams entering the leagues each year.