Relationship Woes and Advice 17: natural numbers

[xPANCAKEx]

last thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=175964)




obligatory copypasta

[CENTER]Welcome to the Relationship Woes and Advice thread, home of any questions you may have: romantic or familial or friendship, we'll answer (or try to answer) them all. Three years old and growing. As Pancake says, this isn't a trade economy- feel free to ask if you have a question, even if you haven't ever given advice and don't intend to start. We won't stone you or ignore you or anything. :smallsmile: All we ask is to know how a situation ends up, either in this thread or through a PM.

Here are the basics.

The biggest bit of advice I've seen bandied around is the truest- no matter what else is true about the situation, always be yourself. It's no good to act like someone else, because eventually the true you will come out and the other person will not be happy you hid that from them.

Rules Of Relationships:
#1- Communicate. If you can't talk with your partner, it's probably not going to work.

#2- Be yourself. Admittedly, if you have some really bad habits you should probably try to change them, but be honest about who you are. No one wants to find out they were loving a lie, and no one likes to live a lie (...well, normally).

#3- Accept your partner. In mine, and other people's, experience you have to be able to accept your partner as they are, because they probably won't be able to change. Also, don't change drastically for someone. I've tried it, my friends have tried it, it doesn't work and it doesn't end pretty.

#4- Hints. Do. Not. Work. Or they might, but the chance of that happening is limited. Some people are like me and just utterly oblivious unless it is blatantly stated, others are (also like me) and don't want to assume, and yet others don't care. You won't know which they belong to unless you actually spell out your intentions and/or feelings. I would consider this a corrolery to Rule #1 except that it comes up so often. Do NOT assume someone should know something from hints. Hints, by nature, are subtle. Clue Bats/Crow Bars/Mack Trucks are not. Try hitting them with one of those. ;) (No, not literally. I mean be upfront if you are trying to get someone to know something.)

#5- Don't be desperate. You don't need to be in a relationship and the healthiest mindset is one where you are happy as you are, even if you do not have a significant other. Don't stay in a relationship that isn't good if you aren't happy, just because you want someone. This is detrimental to both parties in the long (and sometimes short) run.

#6- Be a couple. Set aside some time every week to be together. Just an hour, if nothing else, where it's JUST you two. No computer, no others. Just the couple.

#6.5- Maintain the relationship. Ask your partner every now and then how they are feeling, if they feel like the relationship is still going in a good direction, etc. Also, make sure you don't hide it if you have an issue with your partner or a relationship. The only way it can change is if you talk about it.

#7- Let your boundaries be known. This goes for everything from intimacy to what you consider cheating to any other thing you can think of. Pretty much if it's something that would possibly upset you or your partner, let them know BEFORE a problem arises. An example would be letting your partner know you consider kissing cheating. They very well might think only intercourse is cheating. Having that known before anything potentially happens is a good thing.

#8- Know the signs of an abusive relationship. (http://www.broadcaster.org.uk/section1/scenarios/rape.html#abusive) Both men and women can be abusers, and if you recognize the signs early on you are more likely to be able to get out of a bad situation before it gets out of hand. It's never easy, but if you know the general red flags, it can help you to avoid the situation.

Another list (http://www.hiddenhurt.co.uk/Abuser/signs.htm) - courtesy of Pheehelm and arkady

RULES. YOU READ THESE.
-Anything of a sexual nature, please PM to either myself or one of the regular advice givers. If you just want general opinions post something like: "I have this problem, but it is not board appropriate. Could one of you guys PM me?" I know from experience that you will in fact get help.

-KEEP IT NICE. Disagreements are bound to happen, but please don't be rude.

-Joking is all fun and games, within reasons. Please do not get derogatory.

I decided to put this up because, evidently, it was not apparent that these should be followed. I do not want this thread to be scrubbed again, and we were blessed to get it back.

So please - play nice, and if you're not comfortable talking about things over the open board, PM one of the regulars (too many to mention), and I'm sure they'll be willing to lend an ear - or if you're not sure who to PM, post asking for someone to PM you, and you'll soon get a response


last thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=175964)

[arguskos]

Hello! Delicious new thread is delicious. I can't believe we're on 17 of these. :smalleek:

Anyways, I have a mild query for the folks present: how much of a turn-off (if it is one) is total honesty? I've found that, at least here, no one seems to appreciate honesty in all dealings. I've made it a personal policy to always speak the truth, as best I can, and have paid for it with broken relationships (both intimate and otherwise). Is this common? Or am I just an outlier in this?

[DeadManSleeping]

Depends on what you're honest about.

It also depends on the person.

If, for instance, you are honest about a history of mass puppy-killing to a member of the SPCA, you're going to get a pretty severe reaction. However, if you're honest about being the badguy in a previous relationship to someone who also has a relationship history, you might find that you become closer even after disclosing a rather negative fact about yourself.

Personally, I just go by this motto: "Honesty is not only morally right, it is also highly efficient". Keeping secrets and lying is too much effort, and I have no desire to have friends/romantic partners whose relationship with me is entirely predicated on them believing something untrue about me.

Oh, it's worth mentioning that timing is important. There are good times and bad times to disclose things. There are also good ways and bad ways to do it. Honesty is just one factor in respect and openness, even if it sometimes seems like the biggest part.This post is just dripping with saccharine. I should have talked about puppy-killing more.

[Themrys]

Hello! Delicious new thread is delicious. I can't believe we're on 17 of these. :smalleek:

Anyways, I have a mild query for the folks present: how much of a turn-off (if it is one) is total honesty? I've found that, at least here, no one seems to appreciate honesty in all dealings. I've made it a personal policy to always speak the truth, as best I can, and have paid for it with broken relationships (both intimate and otherwise). Is this common? Or am I just an outlier in this?

Depends.
Some people seem to prefer lies.
However, I don't trust people who lie, regardless of how important the facts they don't tell truthfully are.

My advice is: Don't do anything you have to be ashamed of, then there is no need to lie.

Okay, admittedly, I don't have many friends, but I don't lie (much. I pretend to like presents I actually don't like.) and there are some people who are able to tolerate that.

[Icewalker]

DeadManSleeping drew it up pretty well I think. Honesty tends to make things a lot smoother. There are times, both things you say to people and timing, which could go poorly, however sometimes it's worse to hide things than not.

Mostly, I think the thing most important to always be honest about is your feelings towards somebody. Relationships start because you stop hiding and are honest about your attraction towards someone. Relationships continue because both members of the relationship are aware of what the other is feeling. The more each of you is hiding, the less you know about one another and how you are feeling and why, and the less you can connect. Personally, I think honesty is one of the most important things to hold together love.

I think the only real exception is timing. Sometimes it's best not to tell the whole truth at a given time, due to circumstances or feelings. But be careful not to let that snowball out of control, or last too long, or it stops being waiting until they're in a state to receive it better, and turns into dishonesty.

[xPANCAKEx]

as some one who operated a policy of neer total honesty, i can say it can work only so long as you lack almost any sense of shame

but just because you're honest, doesnt mean you shouldnt ommit certain details - you're under no obligation to tell your life story

[Jonesh]

I usually try to be as honest as possible, but I'm not too keen on revealing stuff about myself. Depending on the person who asks though, I'll either give an honest answer or say I don't want to talk about it all.
In the other aspects, I agree with what DMS and Icewalker wrote.

I got a problem though.
Someone might remember some previous posts I made some time ago about having a crush on a girl with a boyfriend. Now the girl has broken up with the guy for a while and this Saturday she and I were on a date. It wasn't explicitly stated to be a "date" but when we were back at my place we flirted and hooked up and we had a hell of a good time.

Now I'm kind of nervous because this is usually the stage I mess up and I'm even unsure of what I want. I had a crush on her, got over it, but now I met her again and she was awesome so I guess I kind of like her, again. But I don't know how to continue, if she want's a relationship, a fling or if I'm just a rebound or something.

I want to talk her again but I don't want to seem pushy or anything, we talked about seeing eachother this weekend too but she didn't know if she could. Which makes me a bit nervous since I've been with girls who seemed nice and willing right up to after we said goodbye and then they don't want to see me for one reason or another, giving me some kind of excuse like that :smallsigh:

[Syka]

arguskos, and can you believe it's been around for near on four years now? :smalleek:


On honesty: I operate on a policy of honesty. I can't lie to my partner. I expect honesty from them and give it in return. Not-Quite-An-Ex didn't lie, but he vigorously dodged a question and that was a huge turn-off and was actually the impetus for me to say, "Crap or get off the pot." That doesn't fly with me. Even though he didn't lie, it was still dishonest.

Jonesh, just give her a call, have a chat, and ask her to let you know when her availability for the next weekend is set in stone. It's possible your a rebound, but it's also possible she figured out she liked you and had already been detached from her previous relationship before it ended.


For everyone who gave me advice: I kinda sorta took it. Seeing as one 'issue' was the lack of time we were spending together*, that bit wasn't taken. We did change it up, though. We both set aside the stuff that could be set aside for a bit and spent Saturday night at a friend's house for dinner and a movie with them, then Sunday morning before I worked watching some Doctor Who. It was lovely. :) We are currently working on figuring out the work schedules and stuff into a more compatible schedule.


*Mind, we basically live together without the sleeping in the same building bit. If we're not at school or work, we're probably together. Until the last month or so. His work schedule changed to where he's working more mornings, we don't have a day off together, etc., so it's become more common that we won't see each other for a day or two. When we do see each other, it's uncommon for it to be more than a couple hours. Given we were used to far more time together- even if it was spent studying/doing other stuff- it has been quite an adjustment.

Nothing compared to an LDR, but such a quick and dramatic change to the status quo of a relationship which has been in place for about two years is jarring.

[Sholos]

Hey, I'm gonna ask something really stupid and basic, but it's something I've never really learned, so here goes.

What are some good, basic topics of conversation to fill in those quiet moments when talking lags? Also things to get started. I'm generally okay once a topic gets going (assuming I'm not around people who don't ever shut up and give someone other than themselves a turn to talk), but not real good at starting.

[xPANCAKEx]

Hey, I'm gonna ask something really stupid and basic, but it's something I've never really learned, so here goes.

What are some good, basic topics of conversation to fill in those quiet moments when talking lags? Also things to get started. I'm generally okay once a topic gets going (assuming I'm not around people who don't ever shut up and give someone other than themselves a turn to talk), but not real good at starting.

watch pulp fiction - you'll learn that sometimes it ok the be quiet. You'll also learn the perils of taking things which dont belong to you without permission and prior identification before ingestion

sometimes you just have to be brave and broach a topic you really want to talk about relevant to both of you

[Icewalker]

I definitely agree that it's good to talk about the deeper things you might be hesitant about. I think if you can't really say the deep parts of your feelings to your significant other, they likely shouldn't be your significant other. But perhaps I ask too much of a connection before starting a relationship. It's very possible, I can't say I have the most experience in the matter. But, for example, my best relationship began by an explanation of a crush, followed by a lengthy discussion on the nature of love.

Also, while I love honesty, I must say I enjoy surprises even more. Some don't, but I for one just have ever so much fun by taking people places or doing things for people unexpectedly. Or taking people out to a show and not telling them where we're going, except that it's great (I have done this...three times, with Cirque du Soleil. :smallbiggrin: ).

[arguskos]

as some one who operated a policy of neer total honesty, i can say it can work only so long as you lack almost any sense of shame

but just because you're honest, doesnt mean you shouldnt ommit certain details - you're under no obligation to tell your life story
I don't volunteer information, but I don't avoid direct questions either. That's just common sense. :smallwink:


Arguskos
My signature has words for you. :smallannoyed::smalltongue:


, and can you believe it's been around for near on four years now? :smalleek:
Has it really? Damn. I haven't been here for all of it. That's awesome.


On honesty: I operate on a policy of honesty. I can't lie to my partner. I expect honesty from them and give it in return. Not-Quite-An-Ex didn't lie, but he vigorously dodged a question and that was a huge turn-off and was actually the impetus for me to say, "Crap or get off the pot." That doesn't fly with me. Even though he didn't lie, it was still dishonest.
Eh, fair enough. Personally, I won't begrudge someone the occasional dodge (I'll admit to dodging topics on rare occasion too, especially with my folks), but repeated dodges get shaky.


DeadManSleeping drew it up pretty well I think. Honesty tends to make things a lot smoother. There are times, both things you say to people and timing, which could go poorly, however sometimes it's worse to hide things than not.

Mostly, I think the thing most important to always be honest about is your feelings towards somebody. Relationships start because you stop hiding and are honest about your attraction towards someone. Relationships continue because both members of the relationship are aware of what the other is feeling. The more each of you is hiding, the less you know about one another and how you are feeling and why, and the less you can connect. Personally, I think honesty is one of the most important things to hold together love.

I think the only real exception is timing. Sometimes it's best not to tell the whole truth at a given time, due to circumstances or feelings. But be careful not to let that snowball out of control, or last too long, or it stops being waiting until they're in a state to receive it better, and turns into dishonesty.
This is all excellent advice. Thank you.

I appreciate the responses. I'll keep on keeping on, then, and ignore the haters who say dishonesty is the best policy (I know several, including on individual who was a love interest at one time, until I discovered that facet of their personality, and all interest died).

[Syka]

Fixed the name.

And yeah...RWA has been around longer than I've been with my boyfriend, lol.

[arguskos]

Fixed the name.

And yeah...RWA has been around longer than I've been with my boyfriend, lol.
No worries, and thanks. :smallwink:

Also, wow. That's... impressive. Did you actually start the first one? If so, that means that this thread series has chronicled your entire relationship, which is kinda awe-inspiring. It's rare that someone gets that kind of record. Very neat.

[xPANCAKEx]

My signature has words for you. :smallannoyed::smalltongue:


out of curiosity, why is it such a big deal?

[Syka]

This was spawned from the Confessions thread years back and just kinda...stuck. I recall someone (can't for the life of me remember their username) who read through the entire archive a while back, and mentioned that if Oz and I ever broke up, they'd be heartbroken. :smallredface: It's weird when I realize it, but awesome at the same time. I re-read the original posts when we were juuuust starting off and it made me smile something big. It's amazing to think that we're still as disgustingly adorable now as we were then. :smallbiggrin:

And you guys have helped me a great deal in handling my insecurities and stuff. I know I can always come here if I need a good helping of Reality.

But...yeah. RWA has been around a pretty long time. I like it better than advice columns and all because, even though we aren't "professionals" here, you get so many different perspectives that it helps more than a single perspective- even one from a pro.

And it's also different from other forums based on relationships because the forum itself is not for relationships. It's a forum for people with a similar interest that happens to have a subset thread for relationship questions and venting. I think that gives a more balanced viewpoint and lets you boys have more of a say (since most relationship stuff I've seen is dominated by female authors/posters).

[Drascin]

Hey, I'm gonna ask something really stupid and basic, but it's something I've never really learned, so here goes.

What are some good, basic topics of conversation to fill in those quiet moments when talking lags? Also things to get started. I'm generally okay once a topic gets going (assuming I'm not around people who don't ever shut up and give someone other than themselves a turn to talk), but not real good at starting.

In my experience, silliness makes for a good "breach" when you don't know how to restart a conversation - learn from Monkey Island! Point out something silly in your surroundings if there's something, and let you two joke around a bit before making use of the rekindled conversation impetus to bring up any other stuff.

Of course, however, I must warn that this is not tested for flirty conversations and/or "romantic targets" - it is just something that has availed me many a good conversation with friends and unknowns alike. I have absolutely no idea if it segues as well into flirting as it does into ribbing and/or strange philosophical tangents :smalltongue:.

[xPANCAKEx]

people who seek out and post on dating advice websites usually seem to be stuck in the world of "things should be Romantic! with a capital R!" mindsets - the few ive ever read have been so woefully misinformed about men/interacting with men its hilarious. Its worse than the dating advice issued in certain glossy magazines

at the same time, the advice issues to most men who venture onto those sites are issued with such poor, idealised advice its counter productive

when you give anyone advice, ask yourself "if i were on the other side of their problem what would help solve it?" not "what would be a great story to write into cosmo about something my imaginary SO did"

[absolmorph]

No woes or advice for me, just some nice stuff goin' on.
Spoiler'd to avoid inflicting a wall of text on the unwary.
I asked a girl (who, for the sake of my fingers, will be designated K) out back in November. We went ice skating. It went well. A few weeks ago, we went on another date. Hung out at a bookstore, got something to eat, talked a lot. A few days after that, she said (at my questioning) that she didn't want to put a label on things, but she was happy with how things were progressing.

Now, we're planning on hanging out and having a little movie marathon on Saturday. I've been dangling a "secret plan" in front of her nose for a week. It's nothing intricate or very interesting, just planning on sending a picture or two to her on Valentines day. Of course, the knowledge that I'm planning something has been bugging her, so she (apparently) intends to attempt to bribe me about what the plan is Saturday.

Now, as she was saying this, I was coming up with a second plan, which would allow me to reveal my original and still have a nice surprise on Valentines day.

Again, nothing intricate. Neither is expensive (the new one might cost me $10, since I intend to send her a rose).
Thoughts on my plotting?

[Icewalker]

Definitely yes. I advocate romantic surprises as much as possible. It's basically my modus operandi. I love those moments. Honestly, I love my romantic surprises so much, I've started to branch out into platonic surprises. :smallwink: Just doing similar things, but for friends rather than significant others.

Or potential friends apparently. I'm working on a plot to do something excellent for some people who I barely know, cause I want to get to know them better.

[Moonshadow]

I'm still in shock and all, but I have a tale for you. A tale of how Naoto somehow grew a pair, and asked a girl out and didn't get stoned.

So, today I had the pleasure of doing a barista training course, seeing as I lost my job recently and more edumacation = more hireable Naoto, even if it's only a slight boost to hireability.

Anyways, course was interesting, but what really caught my eye was the fairly attractive brunette that was also doing the course with me. As in kept sneaking looks cuz she was super attractive attractive. First few hours of the course pass, while I sit there debating in my head about whether or not to approach her, and how much I would kick myself if she didn't. Lunch time game along, and I made a decision. Once we all broke up for lunch, I headed the same way she did and caught up to her, still in a state of agonised indecision as to whether or not I should approach her and possibly get stoned for daring intrude into her lunch break.

All of a sudden, an amazing thing happen. Testosterone rained from the sky, empowering me with the courage to go up to her and introduce myself, and to my eternal surprise, she didn't stone me or yell at me or anything! We actually started talking, and then went and had lunch together and talked a bit then as well, and we sorta kinda accidentally ended up being a little late back from lunch.

Cue the second half of the course, with Naoto once again being too scared to approach pretty girl during the proceedings, except when she accidentally broke a glass and he got to run over and be nice and clean all the glass up for her (which I likes to privately think made me seem a bit awesome to her... hopefully :smalltongue:)

Cut to the end of the course, and I sort of linger behind so that I can talk to her alone again, cuz I'm still fairly nervous at this point, and we start talking about stuff again, and we get to the point where we have to part ways, and in a shocking turn of events, I asked her if she'd like to do something tonight (Audience: "GAAAAAAAASP!").

Unfortunatly, she turned out to be busy, and just as she turned to go again, I manned up for a 3rd time, and asked her if she'd like to go out for coffee or dinner sometime (In hindsight, asking her out for coffee was probably a dumg idea, seeing as we'd just spent 6 hours making coffee non-stop :smalleek:) and she said YES! And it's even her real number too, and not just a fake number to throw me off her trail.


So, now the question is, how long should I wait before talking to her and praying she remembers me and hoping that she still thinks I'd be fun to meet up with? I think we hit it off, personally :smallbiggrin:

I'm still shocked, but man, it's kind of a massive rush~

[Keld Denar]

http://theinfosphere.org/images/thumb/e/e9/Zapp_Brannigan.png/225px-Zapp_Brannigan.png
Kif, go and tell the men that I have made it with a woman!

I finally made my move on a beautiful woman I've been chasing, and it was AMAZING! She's so awesome, I can't believe she's into me! And thinks I'm cute! And...

/dance

[VeisuItaTyhjyys]

Most people don't really like total honesty; honesty about oneself is fine (if it is not, it's probably because of something about oneself, which would probably come out and be a bigger, more painful problem later), honesty about one's opinions is often less welcomed. I think both are cool, but also that people use "total honesty" as an excuse to be rude. There is a way for one to tell the truth and phrase it politely.


What are some good, basic topics of conversation to fill in those quiet moments when talking lags? Also things to get started.

If you know any points of common interest, those are a good place to start; just generalize from a specific (or do the reverse) about which you've talked before. In example, when making talktalk at a lady who liked Villette, we talked for hours about nineteenth-century literature, in general. If you really don't have anything, self-consciously awkward conversations about the weather can be cute as a last resort, but must be used sparingly.
Of course, there is the standard, "So, what kind of [media] do you [experience]?" questions, like "So, what kind of music do you listen to," or "what kind of books to read," etc. Of course, there isn't really a quick, easy answer to these questions for most people, which allows them to start into a conversation.


So, now the question is, how long should I wait before talking to her and praying she remembers me and hoping that she still thinks I'd be fun to meet up with? I think we hit it off, personally :smallbiggrin:

Maybe give it a day or two, in this case; most people tend to be more free to meet on the weekends, and it's always polite to give notice, so calling on a Thursday and saying something on the casual side about hanging out over the weekend both makes it clear you didn't forget/blow her off, but also doesn't make you seem desperate or antsy, instead making you seem polite for trying to give her notice so she could make plans more easily.

[Icewalker]

Yeah, definitely be careful, total honesty can sometimes be used as an excuse for rudeness, and you need to avoid that. Be honest, but be tactful, I think might be a good way to put it.

I second waiting a day or two. It's the right kind of time frame. Not immediately after, not long enough for her to start wondering if there's a reason you aren't calling. Also, well done man! These things don't happen unless you go at them. Good on you.

Also, Keld, I find your way of announcing such a thing hilarious. And makes me suspect that she may be correct about the cute bit. :smalltongue: Congratulations though! Always excellent, I hope it lasts!

[Serpentine]

Man, double-whammy there, eh?
Congratulations both you two! Naoto, a day or two should be appropriate. As pointed out, Wednesday or Thursday is good timing for the weekend, too - early enough to have a good chance that there's no previous engagements, late enough to not be forgotten or to allow second thoughts and the like (on the side of either party).

Regarding honesty: Generally speaking, I've had several backhanded compliments on my tactlessness. Specifically within relationships, I've been told that I'm "too honest" - by both my current boyfriend and fellow forumites. I know just how I went wrong in that regard, and did it again in my current relationship with full knowledge of it - I just didn't want him to get into it without knowing exactly what was going on.

So, honesty... Definitely prefer more rather than less, and definitely do not approve of lying. But, it might be possible to volunteer more information than necessary.

Side question: Is it very weird - or very, well, bad - that I really, really like really dark, black-black skin?

[Demon 997]

I would like to say that my romantic life is also going well, more to come in the next few days. I'm pretty sure something will come of this. :smallbiggrin:

[loopy]

I'm still in shock and all, but I have a tale for you. A tale of how Naoto somehow grew a pair, and asked a girl out and didn't get stoned.
I'd like to get a headcount of how many times GitPers have actually been yelled at or physically assaulted when asking <insert preferred gender hear> out on dates? Cos I'd bet that its a pretty low number.



So, today I had the pleasure of doing a barista training course, seeing as I lost my job recently and more edumacation = more hireable Naoto, even if it's only a slight boost to hireability.
More education is always a good thing, and never hurts to know how to make a good coffee.


Anyways, course was interesting, but what really caught my eye was the fairly attractive brunette that was also doing the course with me. As in kept sneaking looks cuz she was super attractive attractive. First few hours of the course pass, while I sit there debating in my head about whether or not to approach her, and how much I would kick myself if she didn't. Lunch time game along, and I made a decision. Once we all broke up for lunch, I headed the same way she did and caught up to her, still in a state of agonised indecision as to whether or not I should approach her and possibly get stoned for daring intrude into her lunch break.
My advice would be, in situations like this, to not think and just go ahead and do. Thinking in situations like this always entails your brain coming up with every possible way she could reject you, which is a sure way to torpedo your confidence.


All of a sudden, an amazing thing happen. Testosterone rained from the sky, empowering me with the courage to go up to her and introduce myself, and to my eternal surprise, she didn't stone me or yell at me or anything! We actually started talking, and then went and had lunch together and talked a bit then as well, and we sorta kinda accidentally ended up being a little late back from lunch.
Sounds like it went well. Still not sure why you assumed she'd yell at you though.


Cue the second half of the course, with Naoto once again being too scared to approach pretty girl during the proceedings, except when she accidentally broke a glass and he got to run over and be nice and clean all the glass up for her (which I likes to privately think made me seem a bit awesome to her... hopefully :smalltongue:)
Now you backslid here a bit, but I'll let that go because of...


Cut to the end of the course, and I sort of linger behind so that I can talk to her alone again, cuz I'm still fairly nervous at this point, and we start talking about stuff again, and we get to the point where we have to part ways, and in a shocking turn of events, I asked her if she'd like to do something tonight (Audience: "GAAAAAAAASP!").
Nice work mate. Its not that hard, is it?


Unfortunatly, she turned out to be busy, and just as she turned to go again, I manned up for a 3rd time, and asked her if she'd like to go out for coffee or dinner sometime (In hindsight, asking her out for coffee was probably a dumg idea, seeing as we'd just spent 6 hours making coffee non-stop :smalleek:) and she said YES! And it's even her real number too, and not just a fake number to throw me off her trail.
Did you find out any of her interests? Find something that pertains to them, call her up in a few days saying something like "So I was planning on going to <x>, want to come with?"


So, now the question is, how long should I wait before talking to her and praying she remembers me and hoping that she still thinks I'd be fun to meet up with? I think we hit it off, personally :smallbiggrin:
Don't think of it like that. Damn straight she'll remember you, you are awesome (its about being in a positive mental mindset). I'd advise 2-3 days and then get in touch.


I'm still shocked, but man, it's kind of a massive rush~

Yeah, its great isn't it? Its like that every time! :smallbiggrin:

I wish you well, keep up the practice! Remember, stay confident, she's already found you interesting enough to give you her number, you are already halfway there! :smallsmile:

[rayne_dragon]

Congrats to those who are finding what they seek. :smallsmile:

And while we're talking about honesty:

I always advocate truthfulness. If you say something, you should avoid lying at all and generally try not to be misleading either. It becomes more important in relationships, where honesty is probably one of the most important factors. Being honest needs to be tempered with tact and diplomacy, though. If it isn't nice, you generally don't need to say it. If it is nice and you feel it is important enough to say, rephrase it in a way that is as nice a possibly. "Pushy" become "outgoing", "loud" becomes "exuberant", etc. And just because you put something into nicer words doesn't always make it okay to say, it just makes it a backhanded insult rather than a straighforward one - which is even worse.

The times when I feel deception is acceptable are: when someone asks something personal that you don't want to answer and isn't really any of there their business (including personal information about others), to avoid being assulted/persecuted by people who have some sort of intolerance for you, and for purposes of trying to surprise someone with something nice. Note that only the third applies to a partner in a (romantic) relationship, and even then it is best to avoid lying (personally, I'd be a bit miffed if someone tricks me with lies, but if they managed to fool me without lying, I'll be impressed).



Side question: Is it very weird - or very, well, bad - that I really, really like really dark, black-black skin?

No. I'm actually surprised you're even asking. It's no different than my fixation for androgenous folk, or weird hair colours. Just something you happen to like a lot.

[Coidzor]

Gratz Keld'n'Naoto. And good luck with the next phase of operations.


Side question: Is it very weird - or very, well, bad - that I really, really like really dark, black-black skin?
Well, it's potentially a bit awkward of a fetish to bring up with one's lover, sure, but no different morally from a preference for tanned/non-tanned individuals. Granted, Australia doesn't quite have the same... issues as the U.S. in this regard cultural-like, as far as I know anyway...

[Moonshadow]

Maybe give it a day or two, in this case; most people tend to be more free to meet on the weekends, and it's always polite to give notice, so calling on a Thursday and saying something on the casual side about hanging out over the weekend both makes it clear you didn't forget/blow her off, but also doesn't make you seem desperate or antsy, instead making you seem polite for trying to give her notice so she could make plans more easily.


I second waiting a day or two. It's the right kind of time frame. Not immediately after, not long enough for her to start wondering if there's a reason you aren't calling. Also, well done man! These things don't happen unless you go at them. Good on you.



Man, double-whammy there, eh?
Congratulations both you two! Naoto, a day or two should be appropriate. As pointed out, Wednesday or Thursday is good timing for the weekend, too - early enough to have a good chance that there's no previous engagements, late enough to not be forgotten or to allow second thoughts and the like (on the side of either party).


2 days is really enough? Bear in mind that this is the first time I've ever had success in actually asking a woman out that hasn't involved the internet, so I sorta don't want to ruin my chances, heh. Especially considering that I find her terribly pretty, I usually have the worst luck with them >.>

[Serpentine]

Two days ought to be plenty.

Well, it's potentially a bit awkward of a fetish to bring up with one's lover, sure, but no different morally from a preference for tanned/non-tanned individuals. Granted, Australia doesn't quite have the same... issues as the U.S. in this regard cultural-like, as far as I know anyway...
Not sure exactly what specific culture issues you're talking about, but put it this way: In terms of race relations, Australia's about 20 years behind the US.

[Skeppio]

*ze snip*

Awesome! :smallbiggrin: I'm happy for you mate! Hope things goes well with you and her. :smallwink:

[Moonshadow]

Alright, I'll wait a couple of days. I'm just, y'know, somewhat fairly nervous about this, cuz like I said, it's never happened before, and I really want to make a good impression with this girl. I just hope it wasn't a pity thing giving me her number and more a "Okay, you're actually kinda interesting and this could be fun" kinda thing :smalltongue:

[VeisuItaTyhjyys]

I'd like to get a headcount of how many times GitPers have actually been yelled at or physically assaulted when asking <insert preferred gender hear> out on dates? Cos I'd bet that its a pretty low number.
Well, are we only counting the person one asked out, or does his/her girl/boyfriend count, too? Because I've never been attacked by the ladies I ask out, but their boyfriends are a different story.

[Coidzor]

Well, one guy once got stabbed as a way for his girlfriend to dump him, but, that's life.

And there's some dispute as to whether that was just a fabrication or not.

[rayne_dragon]

Usually it is relatives or friends who yell at you. I think I've had a few of those. Never anything from the person I've asked. It also usually comes from me misreading signals... it doesn't seem to happen anymore.

[VeisuItaTyhjyys]

So, really, as long as s/he doesn't seem likely to stab you, and you're not a heinous cad like Veisu, you should be fine.

[Themrys]

2 days is really enough? Bear in mind that this is the first time I've ever had success in actually asking a woman out that hasn't involved the internet, so I sorta don't want to ruin my chances, heh. Especially considering that I find her terribly pretty, I usually have the worst luck with them >.>

Waiting longer doesn't make anything better. She already knows you want to see her again, she won't be shocked or something when you call.
If you wait too long she will assume you just wanted to see whether you could get her number.

[Eadin]

Yay for Keld and Naoto!

@Serpentine: No, not really.

@Me:
I think my love life is going okay, we've went out to have lunch and dinner a few times but he hasn't been clear about where he wants this to go.. Ah well
But, I have some 'troubles with my ex.
We've been great friends for about half a year now, he helped me get through some big problems and all. I can even talk to him about that guy I like which kind of feels weird).
Of course, he moved on too and sometimes talks about girls he likes. Talk to me when things don't go well with girls and all.
And it feels weird. To think of him with another girl. Not that I want him back, or that I don't want him to be happy. I really want him to be happy.
It's not jealousy either, just a nagging feeling. Maybe a sort of fear that the nice friendship we've build up would die out. It would just be weird to see someone I loved so much a year ago with someone else, even though I'm sort of dating someone else too..
Is this normal?

[potatocubed]

I'd like to get a headcount of how many times GitPers have actually been yelled at or physically assaulted when asking <insert preferred gender hear> out on dates? Cos I'd bet that its a pretty low number.

I've been subjected to withering scorn along the lines of 'You are asking me out?' Does that count?

I mean, I think you're right about the low number, but that number isn't 0.

[snoopy13a]

Unfortunatly, she turned out to be busy, and just as she turned to go again, I manned up for a 3rd time, and asked her if she'd like to go out for coffee or dinner sometime (In hindsight, asking her out for coffee was probably a dumg idea, seeing as we'd just spent 6 hours making coffee non-stop :smalleek:) and she said YES! And it's even her real number too, and not just a fake number to throw me off her trail.


So, now the question is, how long should I wait before talking to her and praying she remembers me and hoping that she still thinks I'd be fun to meet up with? I think we hit it off, personally :smallbiggrin:

I'm still shocked, but man, it's kind of a massive rush~

The traditional standard is to wait two days after getting a phone number (see the movie Swingers). The idea is that if one calls the next day, they'll appear overeager. However, that is usually when the guy just gets the phone number and hasn't asked the girl out on a date yet.

I think since you did ask her out (and she apparently accepted) that you could call her the next day as the only thing to (apparently) work out is logistics. Plus, if you were to wait two or three days, it might convey to the girl that you aren't that interested. Additionally, in Swingers, the girl calls the guy the next day at the end of the movie and they plan a date. So, even the foremost authority on these matters allows for flexibility. What you don't do, is call the girl the same night as you get the number and leave several phone messages (again see Swingers). :smalltongue:

There're also some practical notions to consider as well. For example, if you want to go out on a weekend, you should probably make plans no later than Wednesday. So, if you got a phone number on Tuesday, it would probably be best to break the "two day" rule and call on Wednesday. Otherwise, calling on Thursday would likely preclude a weekend date.

Overall, call the next day or maybe wait two days :smallsmile:

[DeadManSleeping]

Side question: Is it very weird - or very, well, bad - that I really, really like really dark, black-black skin?

No more than it is weird that I love green or brown-dyed-to-dark-red hair. Taste is a bit nonsensical, a bit inconsequential, and most importantly, a great thing for your friends to mock you about. Isn't life grand?

@loopy: The number goes higher when the asking is met with a rejection followed by a period of increasing avoidance and awkwardness that eventually leads to the dissolution of friendship, which I personally find to be worse than minor physical assault. Bruises heal quickly.

@Eadin: Yes, that's normal. Granted, it's not especially good, but it's pretty normal. We're solipsistic creatures. People we no longer see romantically are referred to as "my ex". We don't like other people taking our stuff, even if we're not using it anymore. Ever seen people get all annoying about stuff like "I was into it before it was cool" even if they're totally not into it anymore? Yeah. Don't worry, you'll be fine. Just stop yourself if you ever find yourself trying to control the future of your ex's love life (not that I think you'd do such a thing, but it never hurts to keep oneself in check).

[loopy]

@loopy: The number goes higher when the asking is met with a rejection followed by a period of increasing avoidance and awkwardness that eventually leads to the dissolution of friendship, which I personally find to be worse than minor physical assault. Bruises heal quickly.

Which is why I generally avoid asking out people who I'm already friends with, as things like this can happen if its not reciprocated.

Much better if its some random person at a party, because then if they say no you never see them again anyway.

[Avaris]

Ok, I'm posting here mainly to get something off my chest, but possibly also in search of advice. Note that this is more of a friendship woe rather than a 'relationship' woe.

Towards the start of my second year at university I became really close to someone who until that point had simply been an acquaintance. Lets call her D. It didn't take long before I got to the stage of seeing her as one of my closest friends out of a fairly large circle, and in many ways I got the feeling that the same was true for her.

By February of that year I was working up the confidence to actually ask her out; note that by this point we'd only really known each other properly for 4 or 5 months. At this point she dropped a couple of bombshells; 1) she was leaving town in a month or so. 2) she had asked another of our mutual friends out. I'm fairly certain that at this point she knew how I felt about her... before telling me who she'd asked out she asked me 'are you sure you want to know?' Though this was a blow to me, I decided that if these decisions were what would make her happy, I would not seek to disrupt them; her friendship was far more important to me. That was two years ago. I've barely seen her since.

Over the next few months we stayed in fairly good touch. D is terrible at contacting people at the best of times, but I was able to talk to her on the phone and via msn a fair bit. I knew through our friends that things hadn't worked out with the other guy, but felt it was a shame it had prevented me telling her how I felt any sooner. Over the summer she started looking at going back to university, and was debating between our university and a second. Asking my advice, we determined that she felt she really needed to escape from the trap that is our university town; a sentiment that I hold myself. Ultimately she decided to move to the other university, something that I as a friend felt was right for her. At this point we were still close friends; on one occasion she phoned me completly out of the blue as she was feeling anxious about something and I was 'at the top of the list' of people to call.

We were still in good contact early in my third year. Around October I finally got the courage to tell her how I felt about her, even if it was only by phone. She asked for time to think about it, then a week later made me promise not to stop talking to her regardless of what her decision was. Ultimately she said that she hadn't seen herself being with anyone in the next five years, and that as I was going into my final year and she was starting her first we should focus on those rather than something long distance. I don't know if she was simply trying to let me down gently, but the very fact that she needed time to think about it makes me wonder if I had a chance.

We stayed in good touch until the summer of last year. She visited town a couple of times, though I was slightly hurt that she never told me when she was doing so... nothing unusual about this though; there are plenty of other friends who have known her longer than I have who were equally unaware. As I've said, she's terrible at keeping in touch, but I made the effort. Problem is, I gradually got the feeling, rightly or wrongly, that I was the only one making the effort. In the past she had phoned or otherwise contacted me just as much, but now it was all one way. Not wanting to seem like I was always trying to contact her or be clingy, I had been only really been in touch about once every couple of months, and yet even this began to start to feel intrusive. The last time I phoned her was over the summer... her last words to me were 'we'll speak again soon.' We haven't.

After finishing my third year at uni I left town. Many of our friends have stayed around, but like D I was wary of the trap that that creates; I wanted to actually get somewhere in life, and had no-one rally tying me there. Since then, I have attempted to get in touch with D three or four times via messages on fb etc, but have never had a response from her. I have rationalised this in various ways, but that doesn't mean I'm not hurt by it. A couple of weeks ago I managed to talk to her briefly on fb messenger, and when we did she was her normal self; I certainly didn't get the impression she didn't want to talk to me.

So what has led to this post? Yesterday was her birthday, and by coincidence I spent the evening at an rp game with a mutual friend. He mentioned that he had seen her at the weekend, and I mentioned I was having difficulty getting in touch with her. He seemed surprised by this, as apparently though she is still no good at contacting people herself she is generally quite good at responding when prodded (such as via fb). That I have tried to do so and yet had no response hurts. Equally, as is traditional a load of us left her messages on her fb wall for her birthday. Nothing wrong with that, except that she replyed to perhaps 80% of them... I was one of the ones she didn't.

I'll admit that maybe I'm being obsessional, though I have made every effort not to seem so in terms of contacting or otherwise bothering D; attempting to get in touch with a close friend every few months or so is perfectly reasonable in my book. The problem is that over time I've started reading into the silence from her end, and this has started leading to me feeling extremly hurt over even minor things like her responses to birthday messages. Other people have problems keeping in touch with her, though often that seems to be because they haven't tried. I have, and it hurts that I am not succeeding. I have very little chance now of running into her randomly, such as when she visits our friends at uni, simply because I'm nt there.

Long story short, I feel I have been hurt a lot by D over the past two years. I don't particularly care about not having ended up in a relationship with her... what I care about is I feel I'm losing a friend. This is someone who generally remains good friends even with her exs... I was one of her closest friends prior to her leaving town as well as for a time afterwards, and more than that I promised not to stop speaking to her. Now I feel like I am nothing. WTF have I done wrong?

[DeadManSleeping]

@Avaris: The increasing distance may or may not be because of that asking-out thing, but you're probably right about your friendship losing strength. There's not really anything you can do about it. Sucks, doesn't it? The only advice I can give you is try to move on. You've lost this one.

[Drascin]

First things first - congrats, Naoto. And good luck!


Which is why I generally avoid asking out people who I'm already friends with, as things like this can happen if its not reciprocated.

Much better if its some random person at a party, because then if they say no you never see them again anyway.

This kind of thing is indeed why I have only asked someone once in my whole life - I can't be attracted to someone I don't already know (yes, I know I'm weird. But I'm serious here)... but by the time I already know them, I value the friendship entirely too much to risk something like that. Bit of a Catch-22, that.

Of course, this paradigm has brought me a decently happy life through several really awesome friendships, so hey, not complaining :smallbiggrin:.

[DeadManSleeping]

This kind of thing is indeed why I have only asked someone once in my whole life - I can't be attracted to someone I don't already know (yes, I know I'm weird. But I'm serious here)... but by the time I already know them, I value the friendship entirely too much to risk something like that. Bit of a Catch-22, that.

Of course, this paradigm has brought me a decently happy life through several really awesome friendships, so hey, not complaining :smallbiggrin:.

I'm essentially the same way. Well, except that I don't have awesome friendships, I just happen to know a lot of fun people who are too nice to tell me to leave them alone forever.

[BayardSPSR]

Hoo, boy; textwall time:


But, I have some 'troubles with my ex.
We've been great friends for about half a year now, he helped me get through some big problems and all. I can even talk to him about that guy I like which kind of feels weird).
Of course, he moved on too and sometimes talks about girls he likes. Talk to me when things don't go well with girls and all.
And it feels weird. To think of him with another girl. Not that I want him back, or that I don't want him to be happy. I really want him to be happy.
It's not jealousy either, just a nagging feeling. Maybe a sort of fear that the nice friendship we've build up would die out. It would just be weird to see someone I loved so much a year ago with someone else, even though I'm sort of dating someone else too..
Is this normal?

If it's not normal, I'm not normal. With me, it kinda comes and goes; right now it's on the go, but that doesn't mean it hasn't... come. Yeah. I probably have it easy thanks to being the one to have initiated the split; don't know if it's the same for you. The only way I've been able to force myself out of it (which is something I might have mentioned in the last thread) was by making myself laugh at the situation rather than cry (thanks to the new guy being basically the cheap ripoff remake of me (physically similar but smaller, mentally similar but less intelligent, similar in taste, similar in personality but more receptive to mockery (frustration with emotional abuse having been the death knell of my relationship with Girl)).

As a side note, remember how I said he'd probably take 'mini-me' as a compliment, as he looks up to me? He did, with some slight hesitation. Looks like he overlooked the patronization in order to preserve the spirit of the moment and his friendly relationship with me.

This leads me into my other reason for posting: remember how I was debating warning him off just a little, for his own safety? Well, I didn't. Things have continued; he continues to deny that she's anything more than a big sister to him, but my eyes say otherwise. This is confirmed by others, who made their own judgments independent of my own. (As stated, this guy is the version of me that's even more of a doormat.) He clearly has strong feelings for her; I've seen poetry of his strongly suggestive of it months ago. They flirt on a regular basis. Several weeks ago, I heard from a friend who heard from her that he had in fact asked her out, and that she had turned him down. This occurred prior to my first post, and was the cause of it, though I probably should have mentioned that detail before (my sincere apologies to you all for the omission).

To clarify.
Girl is manipulative and emotionally abusive, or was, (thus forcing breakup with me).
Guy is like me, but worse doormat (hence the logic of the rebound).
Guy has asked Girl out.
Girl said no.
Guy and Girl continue to flirt, to the point that people other than me readily pick up on it.

I call foul, by her on him. This reminds me strongly of the circumstances that strained our relationship to the point of breakup (responses to "date?" with "maybe" EVERY time, almost never seeing each other outside school except when she wanted fun-alone-time (not me), Lysistrata Gambits, exaggeration of every fault of mine and exaggeration of my fault for finding fault with her, casual dishonesty, rampant incurable sexism, etc.). I know it's a considerable leap, but I find it completely in keeping with what I know of her - she has her fun, while stringing the guy along, meaning that she can have anything of him whenever she wants, but that it goes one way.

Knowing this guy, he will fall into the same trap I fell into, and may already have. I do not know what to do or think about this.




Also, remember girl-in-group-in-play in whom I am casually interested? Casual interest has been maintained, and life is proceeding smoothly and without complaint, but I will refrain from making a complete report until, say, Sunday, once the professional relationship from the play is no longer an issue.

Thanks,

Bayard

[xPANCAKEx]

potatocubed

if they say it out of suprise, then take it as a compliment and just say "sure" with a smile - then its up to them to respond

if they're saying it in hostile tone such as the girl you delt with the only response was "yeah, you know what, im definately not interested anymore" and walk away. People with that lack of manners and grace should be scorned and shunned. Unless you've hurt her or her friends in the past, she has no grounds to be that rude.

Naoto

2 days seems fine - you've got **** to do after all. However!!! For the love of sweet zombie jebus, when you call her up, please dont ask her if she even remembers who you are. Thats just putting yourself down. Take all that self-doubt and pity and throw it out the window immediately

Of course she remembers you - you're the suave sunnavagun from the barristar training course, who got her number. When you phone up, and she says hello, all you have to say is "hey its [your name] from the course". When you phone up, have a specific event/activity in mind to take her to on a specific night. In the usual pre-amble of the whole "how are you" exchange of pleasantries, mention that you're busy - this sets up a Vital get-out-clause for later.

as for how to ask, dont ask "so are you free this week" - ask "So i was thinkin id take you out to [x activity] on [y night], that ok for you?". Then if she says shes busy, ask her what nights are good for her. If she says shes busy/she'll get back to you about it, politely accept it, tell her to call you up when shes free and excuse yourself from the call - you're BUSY after all (this is why it was important). You dont want to get locked into a half hour conversation on the phone. And also then the ball is in her court to come and work around your schedual, which will make you a more attractive prospect (no one wants some one whos too available).

so there you are, you're now armed with all the basics, get to it and let us know how you get on

good work laddo

Avaris

it does indeed sound like shes not making the same effort - move on with life, the gap she leaves will be room that other friends will soon occupy. Its painful, but thats how the cookie crumbles sometimes

[Eadin]

@DeadManSleeping
:smallsmile:You're right, thanks for the help:smallbiggrin:

[Moonshadow]

potatocubed
Naoto

2 days seems fine - you've got **** to do after all. However!!! For the love of sweet zombie jebus, when you call her up, please dont ask her if she even remembers who you are. Thats just putting yourself down. Take all that self-doubt and pity and throw it out the window immediately

Of course she remembers you - you're the suave sunnavagun from the barristar training course, who got her number. When you phone up, and she says hello, all you have to say is "hey its [your name] from the course". When you phone up, have a specific event/activity in mind to take her to on a specific night. In the usual pre-amble of the whole "how are you" exchange of pleasantries, mention that you're busy - this sets up a Vital get-out-clause for later.

as for how to ask, dont ask "so are you free this week" - ask "So i was thinkin id take you out to [x activity] on [y night], that ok for you?". Then if she says shes busy, ask her what nights are good for her. If she says shes busy/she'll get back to you about it, politely accept it, tell her to call you up when shes free and excuse yourself from the call - you're BUSY after all (this is why it was important). You dont want to get locked into a half hour conversation on the phone. And also then the ball is in her court to come and work around your schedual, which will make you a more attractive prospect (no one wants some one whos too available).

so there you are, you're now armed with all the basics, get to it and let us know how you get on

good work laddo


So now basically, all I have to do is use these couple of days to find my suaveness, a place to take her out to, and to reclaim my stomach from the giant freaking moths that have made off with it :smalltongue:

Maybe lunch/dinner and a movie, or something? I'm honestly pretty terrible at coming up with ideas on things to do, seeing as I'm not a clubber or anything like that.

[xPANCAKEx]

find a decent restaurant - somewhere not too formal, but not a chain. Somewhere you can eat and talk. Besides, you've already got your suaveness, you asked her out after all.

As loopy so rightly put it - stop thinking about things so much and just do it

besides... you asked her out and she DID say yes. She cant be that uninterested now can she :smallwink:

[xPANCAKEx]

Well, are we only counting the person one asked out, or does his/her girl/boyfriend count, too? Because I've never been attacked by the ladies I ask out, but their boyfriends are a different story.

YOU SIR!... i like the cut of your jib

[Moonshadow]

find a decent restaurant - somewhere not too formal, but not a chain. Somewhere you can eat and talk. Besides, you've already got your suaveness, you asked her out after all.

As loopy so rightly put it - stop thinking about things so much and just do it

besides... you asked her out and she DID say yes. She cant be that uninterested now can she :smallwink:

Well, she wouldn't have given me her number if I hadn't pushed on after getting bumped back for dinner last night, that only happened because I asked to do coffee or dinner or something on another night, so there is still that little voice of doubt in the back of my mind... it also happens to conveniently be the voice that is wondering why a thin, attractive woman would actually give me her number as well though >_<

It's the stomach moths that are most annoying though. They're making me all jittery, it's like I've drunk 13 expressos in a row without stopping :smalltongue:

[Keld Denar]

I'd shy away from a movie. It's hard to converse when you are sitting there watching a movie. Unless it's like, Green Hornet, and you can both sit in the back and make snarky comments about how bad the movie is, and how Seth Rogan should be flogged for even uttering the name. But that might be a better second date.

For first dates, you want something that you can do together. Dinner is excellent, as you have plenty of time to talk while you are waiting for your food or after you finish your meal and you are waiting to pay. Best would be like, a mom and pops kinda place, something that isn't gonna have loud music (like a bar), but isn't overly produced and tacky like an Applebees. Don't get me wrong, I love me some Applebees, but this'll help bedazzle her with your cunning insight.

If you are a bit quirky, and you think she is too, something like ice/roller skating or putt-putt golf are kinda fun. Even if you are both TERRIBLE, its something you can do together to laugh and giggle at the silly awkwardness of it. Ice skating is my ace-in-the-hole date, if I REALLY want to impress someone. I'm good at it, like, really good. If she's good at it, it'll be fun and we will both show off and have fun. If she's not good, then she'll be impressed by my skillz, and I'll get to spend a bunch of time holding her hand and making sure she doesn't fall and hurt herself. Its a win-win. Find something similar to this and OWN it, even if you've never done it, you can still rock it if you ham it up and just have a good time.

[xPANCAKEx]

Well, she wouldn't have given me her number if I hadn't pushed on after getting bumped back for dinner last night, that only happened because I asked to do coffee or dinner or something on another night, so there is still that little voice of doubt in the back of my mind... it also happens to conveniently be the voice that is wondering why a thin, attractive woman would actually give me her number as well though >_<

It's the stomach moths that are most annoying though. They're making me all jittery, it's like I've drunk 13 expressos in a row without stopping :smalltongue:

heres a solid gold piece of advice - shut up. stop worrying.

if she really want even remotely interested she'd have said a flat out no, given you excuse (eg: "already got a boyfriend") or given you a wrong number

[Jonesh]

Aw hell :smallsigh:
So I had a date with a girl I had a crush on before (see here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10324554&postcount=7)), it went well.

However, this is the part where I usually screw up. And I think I did.
You see, this girl is fresh out from a relationship and she probably don't want a new one right now. But I think she thinks I'm in love with her or something.
Which is "not good". I just want to chill out with her and make out and stuff.

The stupid thing I did was that today I called her and asked her out for Valentine's Day but she couldn't since she wasn't free from school that day, so then I asked her for her adress and she asked me why. "Well, I thought I could send you some flowers as tha-" and she laughed and said it was corny and I laughed too and said that if there's one day you're excused to be corny it has to be the corniest day in the whole year.
And then I said that was all I wanted to ask and said goodbye. :smallfrown:

I was thinking I'm just gonna talk to her as usual, if she asks me about it I'll tell her the truth that I am just bad at sending the right signals and that I'm not in love with her like that :smallsigh:

Does that sound good, what are your opinions?
Thanks in advance.

[DeadManSleeping]

You have to be careful with "I'm not as into you as you seem to think I am." Yes, it needs to be said, but you have to say it right. I would personally phrase it as an apology for coming across like you were trying to move fast, and assuring her that you really, truly want to take it slow to start off with. I can't think of a better way that is both non-offensive and still manages to communicate what you want her to know.

[ZombyWoof]

*ahem*

SQUEEEEEEEEEEEEEeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee !!!!!!!!!!

So, we were "studying" today which really was... me copying down notes and asking her questions about her life. She had to cut it short today because her horse is getting shoe'd which lead into a discussion of animals (three cats, two dogs, two horses, she has small dogs and likes big dogs, only big dog they had had health problems but was super sweet), horses = hobbies which lead into sports (her dad is a huge 49er fan like I am), and apparently she wants to meet again this week. I asked if she was thinking thursday, and she said, "No... I'm thinking maybe friday or the weekend?"

If that's not a signal then call me DumbyWoof.

So hopefully saturday we're going to go to a small bakery/tea shop that's close to school and get some bread and/or tea. She didn't get when I said "Hot tea leaf juice" which just shows me one thing: I need to bring her up to speed on Avatar: The Last Airbender and probably half a dozen other classic shows and movies!

I was doing my hardest not to shake while she was there, and have been having my nervous jitters ever since.

[Jonesh]

You have to be careful with "I'm not as into you as you seem to think I am." Yes, it needs to be said, but you have to say it right. I would personally phrase it as an apology for coming across like you were trying to move fast, and assuring her that you really, truly want to take it slow to start off with. I can't think of a better way that is both non-offensive and still manages to communicate what you want her to know.

Ah, I'm not too keen on apologies. Though I guess one might be in order, I guess I kind of sent mixed signals to her, didn't I? :smallsigh:

[ZombyWoof]

The stupid thing I did was that today I called her and asked her out for Valentine's Day but she couldn't since she wasn't free from school that day, so then I asked her for her adress and she asked me why. "Well, I thought I could send you some flowers as tha-" and she laughed and said it was corny and I laughed too and said that if there's one day you're excused to be corny it has to be the corniest day in the whole year.
And then I said that was all I wanted to ask and said goodbye. :smallfrown:

I think what was going on in her mind after that wasn't "Ewww in love with me" but "Hee hee he's so corny it's cute {and sweet}."

I don't see any reason to bring it up since you're probably more upset about it than she was. Is. Or any of the above. If she asks about it at all it's probably going to mean "Hey, you didn't get my address so how are you going to get me flowers?" (if she doesn't say that, it's probably in the subtext). Otherwise, if she's really offended or freaked out by an offer to send flowers then... well... that seems a bit more paranoid than I would like.

EDIT: I also didn't see any "mixed signals." You like her and want to send her flowers (which is typically a signal that you like her). You don't have to be married or thinking of marriage to give someone a flower... hell, I bought my (now ex) GF a single red rose to mark the beginning of her school semester. We'd been dating for about a month, and the idea wasn't that I was madly in love with her but rather "Here, I'm thinking about you and I really like you."

[Nameless Ghost]

Avaris:
I feel your pain.:smallfrown:

You might get to talk to her on FB messenger again. If you do, it might be a good idea to bring up that you hardly have any contact anymore. I would at least try to find out more about the situation and see if there's a chance of salvaging the friendship before moving on completely.

[Jonesh]

I think what was going on in her mind after that wasn't "Ewww in love with me" but "Hee hee he's so corny it's cute {and sweet}."

I don't see any reason to bring it up since you're probably more upset about it than she was. Is. Or any of the above. If she asks about it at all it's probably going to mean "Hey, you didn't get my address so how are you going to get me flowers?" (if she doesn't say that, it's probably in the subtext). Otherwise, if she's really offended or freaked out by an offer to send flowers then... well... that seems a bit more paranoid than I would like.

EDIT: I also didn't see any "mixed signals." You like her and want to send her flowers (which is typically a signal that you like her). You don't have to be married or thinking of marriage to give someone a flower... hell, I bought my (now ex) GF a single red rose to mark the beginning of her school semester. We'd been dating for about a month, and the idea wasn't that I was madly in love with her but rather "Here, I'm thinking about you and I really like you."

Yeah, the thing is I don't want to seem like I'm moving too fast or something, because that might both scare her off and I don't want to move too fast either, I kind of got some issues with trust and intimacy.
I also really don't want to mess this up, I can hardly believe I got a second chance at all with her, so I'm kind of anxious about messing it up (again). And that anxiety probably leads to me messing up, haha been there, done that you know :smalltongue:

Edit: though "Hee hee he's so corny it's cute {and sweet}." theory might be sound, she laughs hmm "easily"? I don't know the appropriate english word :smalltongue:
Spoilered for some teensyweensy naughtiness
E.g. when we were at my place and had nothing to do, she asked what I wanted to do and I said laconically, "Make out" she laughed like that I think. And then we made out :smallredface:

[ZombyWoof]

E.g. when we were at my place and had nothing to do, she asked what I wanted to do and I said laconically, "Make out" she laughed like that I think. And then we made out :smallredface:
That... is pretty much what I expected.

[Jonesh]

That... is pretty much what I expected.

I think she might still get cold feet if she thinks I want a relationship or that I am in love with her or something like that :smallfrown:

[ZombyWoof]

Well, do you want a relationship with her, or do you just want to be a random guy she makes out with?

I also would say that the idea of you being in love with her probably has not even crossed her mind.

[Jonesh]

Well, do you want a relationship with her, or do you just want to be a random guy she makes out with?

I also would say that the idea of you being in love with her probably has not even crossed her mind.

Well, maybe eventually. I'm not really good with relationships and I think I would just like to see how this works out. I think I would be pleased if I'd see her now and then and chill out, with no pressure like we did this Saturday.
I guess she is potential girlfriend-material, but I don't want to rush that line of thought.

Also yeah, that might be right and I'm just paranoid. But I don't exactly have a good track record of going after sensible girls. Some of the girls I have known would easily jump to such a conclusion.
Which is why I am paranoid I guess.

[DeadManSleeping]

@Jonesh: You may not have sent mixed signals from your end, but everyone's using a different codebook! You're not at fault, but an apology is still the best way to approach that delicate topic. Then again, it may not need to be approached at all, so don't get too eager to bring it up. Just enjoy what's going on, and she'll probably be able to tell that you're happy with what's going on (especially if your communication is good), and that should keep her from getting worried or whatever.

[thorgrim29]

Well, I seem to have a blind date set up on Valentine's day, no idea yet on the specifics, just thought I'd give you guys some advance warning as I inevitably will become wracked with doubts and stress over the next week, seeing how, at 21 I have never actually been on a date with a girl, and tend to not be so good with strangers.

[DeadManSleeping]

Blind date? Ugh. Those are a bother even for people who have plenty of dating experience. Just do your best to be the awesomest you that you can be. And try and find out as much about your date as you can. You're starting from nothing, after all.

[xPANCAKEx]

blind date on valentines.... urgh... good luck

be aware that a date is not a privilidge, so dont put this girl on a pedistal before you even get to know her. She'll probably be a little nervous too, so dont feel you've done something wrong by being nervous yourself. Just put on a brave face and realise that while you're there you may as well enjoy it

just go in expecting to spend an evening out and talk a lot. She may be expecting you to make some sort of grand gesture but lets look at this realistically - Shes a stranger. You have no obligation to her. You owe her nothing. Only and i do mean ONLY if she turns out to be someone you enjoy the company of then do you consider asking her for a second follow up date.

Also, be aware you're allowed to walk away from a date at any point if she offend you or makes undue demands (have cash in your wallet so you can throw down enough money to cover your half of the meal/date)

asuming you've made it to the end of the date and not hate her

as for paying - if she EXPECTS you to pay, then shes not someone worth seeing. Offer to pay, but judge her reaction to it. If she says she'll pay her half, offer to cover this date if she covers the next one - sets up round two

[ZombyWoof]

I just found out that Saturday is wide open for me which is when she wanted to, you know, get together :smallbiggrin::smallbiggrin::smallbiggrin:

What's great is I remembered the name of the bakery I wanted to take her to: Old Soul, a little hole in the wall behind some attorney's office (who my dad used to work for). It's got a nice warehouse feel with some couches in one corner, and you can buy tea by the pot rather than by the cup (a HUUUUGE plus over Starbucks and Peet's). They also have a truly wonderful selection from Jasmine to a good selection of mint teas.

Plus their bakery is ridiculously good.

Oh and also I'll be going there with probably the cutest girl on earth. Who loves horses. And dogs. And cats. And physics.

Great day or GREATEST day?

EDIT: She also thinks I'm smart which could go either way I guess. I don't think she wants to study, as it were, on the weekend. I think this is more of a "Hey, I think you like me, I like you" sort of deal.

EDIT 2: Man I can't stop thinking about this...

[rayne_dragon]

as for paying - if she EXPECTS you to pay, then shes not someone worth seeing. Offer to pay, but judge her reaction to it. If she says she'll pay her half, offer to cover this date if she covers the next one - sets up round two

I'd just like to note that offering to pay/pay half doesn't always mean that the person isn't trying to stick you with the bill. Sometimes it's just a ploy to bring out someone's generous nature and have them foot the bill thinking that you're not a mooch (while really being one). I've seen it happen. In terms of paying for something I think it is always best to stick with what you're comfortable with: if you're good with paying for the whole thing and not getting anything in return, go ahead; if that doesn't fly with you, split it regardless of other factors.

As Pancake mentioned, someone who expects you to pay for them is not being reasonable in this day and age - thus is probably not worth your time, unless you're okay with that kind of attitude.

[loopy]

I just found out that Saturday is wide open for me which is when she wanted to, you know, get together :smallbiggrin::smallbiggrin::smallbiggrin:

What's great is I remembered the name of the bakery I wanted to take her to: Old Soul, a little hole in the wall behind some attorney's office (who my dad used to work for). It's got a nice warehouse feel with some couches in one corner, and you can buy tea by the pot rather than by the cup (a HUUUUGE plus over Starbucks and Peet's). They also have a truly wonderful selection from Jasmine to a good selection of mint teas.

Plus their bakery is ridiculously good.

Oh and also I'll be going there with probably the cutest girl on earth. Who loves horses. And dogs. And cats. And physics.

Great day or GREATEST day?

EDIT: She also thinks I'm smart which could go either way I guess. I don't think she wants to study, as it were, on the weekend. I think this is more of a "Hey, I think you like me, I like you" sort of deal.

EDIT 2: Man I can't stop thinking about this...

Okay mate, simmer down. There isn't much that is more off-putting to someone than sensing a puppy-like neediness for their company.

Don't go hyping her up in your head, and picturing your ideal date that ends in a whirlwind romance with her finally turning you into a vampire like you always wanted when you were a little girl.

Just go in looking to have an enjoyable evening, and I'm sure it will all go wonderfully. The cafe does sound like a great idea, and something that very much reflects your personality. :smallsmile:

Good luck, relax, and be sure to get her to impress you.

[Coidzor]

...What is the appropriate linguistic construction for offering to pay anyway?

[xPANCAKEx]

following on from what rayne said

if you ASK someone to dinner, then the onus is on you to pay for it, but considering whats going on is a blind date, both halfs should go into it expecting to cough up for their own expenses

offering to pay? simple

"i'll get this one" - it neither implies the other person is incapable of paying, nor putting any guilt on them to repay in any way, but giving them the opertunity to either object, or acknowledge and THANK you for it

zombywoof

gunna also back up loopys voice of caution. Youre still getting to know this girl. Take her down from that pedestal else you risk getting ahead of yourself and looking like a fool. She may turn out to be great, she may turn out to be an ass. Give it time and find out first

[rayne_dragon]

...What is the appropriate linguistic construction for offering to pay anyway?

"I'll get it", "I'll get this (one)", "I'll cover it", "I'll pay for it", "do you mind if I pay for/cover this?", "this one's on me" are all ways you can offer.

Edit: Also another way of saying it is "My treat." I particularly like that one.



if you ASK someone to dinner, then the onus is on you to pay for it...

Is it? I don't think I've ever been on a date where that was assumed, but it may just be the subcultures I date within. :smallconfused:

In my experience, if somone says "Can I buy you dinner/coffee/etc?" then they're offering to pay, whereas "Wanna grab dinner/coffee/etc (with me)?" is noncommittal and should you not have the monies available for such an occasion is the time to ask "are you paying?" - if you don't ask, it generally becomes assumed you will pay your share of the bill unless someone offers to pay more or suggests an even split.

[ZombyWoof]

zombywoof

gunna also back up loopys voice of caution. Youre still getting to know this girl. Take her down from that pedestal else you risk getting ahead of yourself and looking like a fool. She may turn out to be great, she may turn out to be an ass. Give it time and find out first
Don't worry, I'm not putting her on a pedestal at all. Just excited about my prospects for the first time in... three years?

I told her I'd know by thursday if I'm available this weekend, so by "thursday" I'll know:smallwink:

[Serpentine]

should you not have the monies available for such an occasion is the time to ask "are you paying?" - if you don't ask, it generally becomes assumed you will pay your share of the bill unless someone offers to pay more or suggests an even split.I would recommend, for good manners' sake, to say, rather, "Ah, I would, but I can't really afford it. Can I pay you back latter?" Otherwise, it's... Well, it's pretty much "I expect you to pay", which is what everyone has said is bad news.

[rayne_dragon]

I would recommend, for good manners' sake, to say, rather, "Ah, I would, but I can't really afford it. Can I pay you back latter?" Otherwise, it's... Well, it's pretty much "I expect you to pay", which is what everyone has said is bad news.

Well, it is true that is bad news on dates. I was being kind of general; I don't think I've ever said that other than with old friends who are well aware I can't afford to eat out on my own funds. In fact I think I've only ever used it seriously once.

[Serpentine]

My friends and I still do that on a regular basis. But, if it's not "I can't afford it right now, can I pay you back later?" it's a "Buy me a drink!" which is only acceptable because we know we're kidding/incorporate "I'll pay you back" into it.
"Wanna get some lunch?" "Are you paying?" just seems downright rude to me, except in the right circumstances (i.e. with good friends who know you'll reciprocate).

[Dvil]

I've got a similar thing going on with a friend of mine. We occasionally go out for drinks, just to chat etc, but he knows that I'm unemployed and saving up for Bloodstock. So, the conversation goes something like this:

HIM: "Hey dude, want to grab a pint later?"
ME: "Ah, sorry mate, don't really think I can afford one."
HIM: "It's ok, I'll get you one. How many is it you owe me now?"

And it all works out ok. He knows I'm poor, so when he invites me to a drink he knows this is a real possibility,and I make sure to let him know in advance if I can't pay. So it's good. I'm not sure where I was going with this, just figured I'd share my experience and let you know that it is ok to not pay, as long as the other knows in advance, I guess?

I dunno, work the aesop out for yourselves :smalltongue:

[rayne_dragon]

My friends and I still do that on a regular basis. But, if it's not "I can't afford it right now, can I pay you back later?" it's a "Buy me a drink!" which is only acceptable because we know we're kidding/incorporate "I'll pay you back" into it.
"Wanna get some lunch?" "Are you paying?" just seems downright rude to me, except in the right circumstances (i.e. with good friends who know you'll reciprocate).

Yeah, it is pretty tactless. I think asking someone to go to a potentially expensive resaurant when you know they're worse than broke can be pretty rude too, because if they aren't going to buy something for you that just leaves you sitting there watching them eat while you sip on a glass of water. There's been times when I've done just that because I didn't feel comfortable letting the person in question buy me food.

[Moonshadow]

Please note that I already know I'm being stupidly irrational and stupid ._.

Right, so I'm still feeling super nervous and stuff, and I think that the reason is that honestly, I'm a little intimidated by how super pretty she is, and I know that this is a Dumb with a capital D reason to be nervous, but I just am. I'm just never used to having a pretty girl not shoot me down in the first 5 seconds.


Deeeeeeep breaths :smallsigh:

[rakkoon]

Try and enjoy the buzz. While you have to make sure your expectations aren't too high, there's nothing wrong with enjoying the anticipation :smallwink: One day you'll be married and never have a first date again. So enjoy :smallsmile:

[Form]

I have an update and, I dare say, a positive one this time. ^^


I asked her if she felt like hanging out sometime at our student society and she said yes. It won't be on Valentine's day (I deliberately avoided that one date so as to not place too much pressure on her), but I guess we do have a 'date' of sorts.

It's a slow, but nice start. Now just to see how it goes and arrange a follow up if it goes well.

[ZombyWoof]

Please note that I already know I'm being stupidly irrational and stupid ._.

Right, so I'm still feeling super nervous and stuff, and I think that the reason is that honestly, I'm a little intimidated by how super pretty she is, and I know that this is a Dumb with a capital D reason to be nervous, but I just am. I'm just never used to having a pretty girl not shoot me down in the first 5 seconds.

Lol I've been doing just that. It's a great feeling isn't it? All day yesterday I had to consciously stop myself from skipping out of the library clicking my heels and saying "YIPPEEEE!" It's the cleanest and greatest high I've hear of, my friend. And yes, I'm talking about being nervous before a date.

Enjoy it while it's there!


I have an update and, I dare say, a positive one this time. ^^


I asked her if she felt like hanging out sometime at our student society and she said yes. It won't be on Valentine's day (I deliberately avoided that one date so as to not place too much pressure on her), but I guess we do have a 'date' of sorts.

It's a slow, but nice start. Now just to see how it goes and arrange a follow up if it goes well.

Generally speaking I've found that saying "yes" to hanging out when they barely know you means they think you're cute. Good luck!

[Malfunctioned]

You know what's annoying about not being in an official relationship? I've got no idea where we stand or how close we should be. We're both busy at college so the only time we really get to spend with each other is when we both have breaks that sync up, which is pretty much only at lunch and even then it's not always perfect, and after college on Thursdays, which is pretty much how we got together.

Of course me and her seem to be a combination of tropes anyway (apologies for this linkage) such as Belligerent Sexual Tension (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BelligerentSexualTension), Slap Slap Kiss (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SlapSlapKiss) and Everyone Can See It. (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/EveryoneCanSeeIt) So obviously it's going to be a very....odd ride.


So no real problems, I just really want both us to actually be official rather than being together but not.

It'll stop other girls hitting on me as well.....

[rayne_dragon]

You know what's annoying about not being in an official relationship? I've got no idea where we stand or how close we should be. We're both busy at college so the only time we really get to spend with each other is when we both have breaks that sync up, which is pretty much only at lunch and even then it's not always perfect, and after college on Thursdays, which is pretty much how we got together.

Of course me and her seem to be a combination of tropes anyway (apologies for this linkage) such as Belligerent Sexual Tension (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BelligerentSexualTension), Slap Slap Kiss (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SlapSlapKiss) and Everyone Can See It. (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/EveryoneCanSeeIt) So obviously it's going to be a very....odd ride.


So no real problems, I just really want both us to actually be official rather than being together but not.

It'll stop other girls hitting on me as well.....

Not wanting to be pushy with my opinion here, but... don't force it. Just be happy with it the way it is and appreciate what you have rather than pining after what you don't have. The way you describe it makes it sound like it'll get there on its own in due time, so relax because worrying about it is one of the things that can derail the course you're on.

Um... also: you may want to reconsider discussing geography, given that you mentioned "Slap, Slap, Kiss." It seems like the kind of thing that might result in your physical harm.

Edit: I'm cutting out the part you cut while I made my post, but I'm leaving in my response to it.

[arguskos]

Um... also: you may want to reconsider discussing geography, given that you mentioned "Slap, Slap, Kiss." It seems like the kind of thing that might result in your physical harm.
That particular trope tends to be enjoyable for the characters in question. If Malfunctioned feels the same, I see no reason to cease his commentary. In other news, go Mal!

I have yet another query though: what is the proper etiquette for approaching attractive individuals in a public setting? I've been erring on the side of "don't", but surely, that's not right.

[Jonesh]

Hey, relevant posts; Number 1 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10324554&postcount=7), Number 2 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10332983&postcount=57), Number 3 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10333745&postcount=63), Number 4 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10334335&postcount=67).

So I talked a bit with her, it was like usual. I'm probably just paranoid. But, I kind of uh, want to talk more dirty or be more like flirtatious or something, like talk about the stuff we did :smallredface:
Because it feels like we're just talking like normally. Haha, man I dunno. Guess I should be happy for this, normalcy or something.
I just hope I can see her again and there will be the same spark as it was this Saturday :smallfrown:

[term1nally s1ck]

I have yet another query though: what is the proper etiquette for approaching attractive individuals in a public setting? I've been erring on the side of "don't", but surely, that's not right.

'Hi there.'

'Hey, can I ask you a question, I need a woman/man's perspective on something?'

*Insert context relevant teasing comment here.*

Seriously, there's no real hoops to jump through. Just don't be creepy, and don't force the issue if he/she does not respond. They may well just be busy or otherwise not in the mood to interact with a stranger.

[rayne_dragon]

That particular trope tends to be enjoyable for the characters in question. If Malfunctioned feels the same, I see no reason to cease his commentary. In other news, go Mal!


It was just a suggestion, plus the comment seemed kind of tactless to me. Regardless, he cut it before I made my post.



I have yet another query though: what is the proper etiquette for approaching attractive individuals in a public setting? I've been erring on the side of "don't", but surely, that's not right.

Depends on the exact situation I suppose. Generally, it is better done with tact and respect (as opposed to the sterotypical whistling and "hey baby" stuff they show people doing on TV all the time). Consider how you would feel if approached in a similar manner. Also consider cultural norms: are you in a situation where approaching the person would be acceptable and not threatening or otherwise uncomfortable for them? Start the approach off slowly with non-veral cues, such as smiling at the person and seeing if they smile back. You can get a good idea if a person will be receptive to being approached before saying a word. For example: I like to read on the train, if my nose is in a book I don't like being bothered by people so hopefully the fact that I'm reading, and usually have ear phones on to boot, ought to give others the cue to leave me alone. If on the other hand I'm just holding a book with "Feminism" in its title on my lap and smiling at someone, I'm inviting that person to approach me and giving them a clue as to what kind of interest would be a good one to share with me.

[VeisuItaTyhjyys]

Maybe lunch/dinner and a movie, or something? I'm honestly pretty terrible at coming up with ideas on things to do, seeing as I'm not a clubber or anything like that.

Arguably, coffee is not as bad an idea as it seemed; I don't imagine one goes to barrista training if one hates the stuff, and it's easier to guess at a coffee place she'll like (unless she's super-elitist about coffee) than a restaurant. It's also cheap.


Ice skating

THIS

As for "slap slap kiss," a great Lady once said "When it's love if it's not rough it isn't fun."

[arguskos]

It was just a suggestion, plus the comment seemed kind of tactless to me. Regardless, he cut it before I made my post.
Meh. I didn't read that out of it, but YMMV, I guess. Like you say, it's gone now, so it's just our secret. :smallwink::smallbiggrin:


Depends on the exact situation I suppose. Generally, it is better done with tact and respect (as opposed to the sterotypical whistling and "hey baby" stuff they show people doing on TV all the time). Consider how you would feel if approached in a similar manner. Also consider cultural norms: are you in a situation where approaching the person would be acceptable and not threatening or otherwise uncomfortable for them? Start the approach off slowly with non-veral cues, such as smiling at the person and seeing if they smile back. You can get a good idea if a person will be receptive to being approached before saying a word. For example: I like to read on the train, if my nose is in a book I don't like being bothered by people so hopefully the fact that I'm reading, and usually have ear phones on to boot, ought to give others the cue to leave me alone. If on the other hand I'm just holding a book with "Feminism" in its title on my lap and smiling at someone, I'm inviting that person to approach me and giving them a clue as to what kind of interest would be a good one to share with me.
Interesting. Thanks for the input (you too, term1nally s1ck). I'll keep that in mind.


As for "slap slap kiss," a great Lady once said "When it's love if it's not rough it isn't fun."
Indeed, indeed. Reminds me of fun times, now sadly past.

[Moonshadow]

Arguably, coffee is not as bad an idea as it seemed; I don't imagine one goes to barrista training if one hates the stuff, and it's easier to guess at a coffee place she'll like (unless she's super-elitist about coffee) than a restaurant. It's also cheap.

Actually, I hate coffee, but I enjoy working in a cafe for some weird reason. It's like how I baked and decorated cakes for 6 years when I hate cake. I'm a very odd bird.

As for ice skating, I'm hilariously terrible at it, which is weird because I'm a pretty good roller bladers.

Anyways, I found out that there is a local music festival that's on at the moment that has the advantage of being free which is a bonus because neither of us is working at the moment and money is tight.

Now I just have to go silence all the worrying voices in my head, and I'll be set.

[rayne_dragon]

Meh. I didn't read that out of it, but YMMV, I guess. Like you say, it's gone now, so it's just our secret. :smallwink::smallbiggrin:


Pretty much. I'd just like to add that I object because if someone described me in a similar way I would be inclined to hit them hard enough to let them know that I am not pleased with the remark. Someone else might take it as a compliment. *shrug*

[VeisuItaTyhjyys]

Actually, I hate coffee, but I enjoy working in a cafe for some weird reason. It's like how I baked and decorated cakes for 6 years when I hate cake. I'm a very odd bird.

Wow. I guess I called that one wrongly, then. You would make a great barrista, though; nobody is as elitist about coffee as someone who hates all coffee.


As for ice skating, I'm hilariously terrible at it, which is weird because I'm a pretty good roller bladers.
Everyone is either charmingly competant, impressively good, or endearingly bad at ice skating, that is the beauty of it. You just have to make it clear which you are.


Anyways, I found out that there is a local music festival that's on at the moment that has the advantage of being free which is a bonus because neither of us is working at the moment and money is tight.

I support this fully.

[Icewalker]

With regards to coming up and approaching somebody in public, there are loads of acceptable routes. Mostly it depends on how you want to seem. I've been intending to work on this kind of thing myself, just walking to class, picking a random (probably attractive girl) person who is also walking the same way, and basically just saying hello, and I noticed you're quite a beautiful lady. Or something akin to such. It's a style I like, and that I try to embody, kind of playful open flirtatious.

Make sure that don't try to come across as something you really aren't. That gets into the honesty thing. Don't change your demeanor to send a false message because you think they'll like the person you pretend to be more.

[Moonshadow]

Bleah. Tried calling, her phone rang out and I was too nervous to leave a message or anything... and now I don't want to appear desperate or anything by ringing back too soon and ahhhhhhh paranoia calm down calm down :smallsigh:

Someone boot me in the head, please :smallfrown:

[Serpentine]

Wait 'til, say, 5-6, call again, leave a message. 'sallgood.

[Demon 997]

So my coffee hang out thing went well. An annoying large number of my friends were there (stupid popular coffee shops), but they didn't bother us. We're going to go see a movie sometime soon.

[VeisuItaTyhjyys]

I only give strangers compliments if I intend not to speak with them, so it's usually hurled across corners and such. In general, if I actually want to strike up a conversation, I ask them something I genuinely want to know and hope they have an answer; maybe it is the location of a bar, or the artist of a song I have heard; usually it is if they have a smoke.

[ZombyWoof]

She dropped our class together o.O

Hoping to still hang out with her though.

[Sholos]

Bleah. Tried calling, her phone rang out and I was too nervous to leave a message or anything... and now I don't want to appear desperate or anything by ringing back too soon and ahhhhhhh paranoia calm down calm down :smallsigh:

Someone boot me in the head, please :smallfrown:

Same idea, except that it was on Monday, and she never called back and didn't answer the phone when I called this (Wednesday) evening. I has a very large sad right now. Large enough that I'm beginning to wonder if I shouldn't just give up on the whole trying to find someone thing.

[ZombyWoof]

Update, "If you still want to study on tuesdays..."

"I was kind of hoping to hang out with you, maybe we could go to the shop tuesday instead?"

"Sure"

[Demon 997]

Update, "If you still want to study on tuesdays..."

"I was kind of hoping to hang out with you, maybe we could go to the shop tuesday instead?"

"Sure"

Congrats. Its fun isn't it?

[ZombyWoof]

Well at least now it's officially a "I want to hang out with you" thing rather than a "let's study thing."

The conversation was as follows:


Her:Hello, this is {blank} from bio. I am dropping bio since i dont need to take it and i dont like it. Sorry.

Me: Oh, well, did you still want to hang out saturday?

Her: I think i am going to study ochem on saturday since i am so far behind. But we should study together on tuesday if you would like i will be in the library.

Me: I was actually kind of looking forward to hanging out with you on saturday, but ok. How about we head to the tea shop on tuesday instead?

Her: Sound good

Could be bad or good. Man I was very... deflated... when I heard that first part (didn't let her know, of course). Now I'm feeling better, but not too sure.

[Moonshadow]

Well, I rang her again around 7:30 and didn't get through again and I left her a voice mail asking her if she'd like to go to dinner this weekend. Hopefully I haven't commited some major faux pax.

Hopefully I get a reply and it doesn't turn out that she gave me her number out of pity :smallconfused:

[VeisuItaTyhjyys]

If she's taking Orgo instead of Bio, why do you even like her? :smalltongue:

Seriously, though, suavely-handled.

@Naoto: As for calling, it doesn't hurt to call back; leaving like a hundred messages is desperate. If she doesn't answer the second time, just leave a message saying you forgot to leave a message, you were just wondering when she was free. If you don't leave a message, she may not know it was you calling. If she didn't put your number in her phone or etc., she might not call back a strange number with no explanation.

Or you did all that anyhow, maybe. :smallredface:

[Jonesh]

Number 1 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10324554&postcount=7), Number 2 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10332983&postcount=57), Number 3 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10333745&postcount=63), Number 4 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10334335&postcount=67), Number 5 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10341149&postcount=91)

*numerous censored expletitives*

Well damn, she said it was a onetime thing and that she just wants to be friends. I said that's cool, because hey she's chill as hell. But seriously, she gives me a little sip of ambrosia and expects me not to want more? :smallfrown: I feel like ****, I'm probably gonna sulk for awhile. Let her come to me, i.e. if she comes. I feel like such a tool :smallfrown:

[Serpentine]

Well, I rang her again around 7:30 and didn't get through again and I left her a voice mail asking her if she'd like to go to dinner this weekend. Hopefully I haven't commited some major faux pax.

Hopefully I get a reply and it doesn't turn out that she gave me her number out of pity :smallconfused:Sounds great to me. Ball's in her court and all that jazz.

[MountainKing]

You know what's annoying about not being in an official relationship? I've got no idea where we stand or how close we should be. We're both busy at college so the only time we really get to spend with each other is when we both have breaks that sync up, which is pretty much only at lunch and even then it's not always perfect, and after college on Thursdays, which is pretty much how we got together.

Of course me and her seem to be a combination of tropes anyway (apologies for this linkage) such as Belligerent Sexual Tension (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BelligerentSexualTension), Slap Slap Kiss (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SlapSlapKiss) and Everyone Can See It. (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/EveryoneCanSeeIt) So obviously it's going to be a very....odd ride.

So no real problems, I just really want both us to actually be official rather than being together but not.

It'll stop other girls hitting on me as well.....

You. Fiend. There goes my afternoon. :smallsigh::smallbiggrin: In all seriousness, it's probably best that you two can't constantly be all over each other due to attending your respective responsibilities. It'll make the time you DO spend together worth much more, AND, it'll give you both time to get to know each other and take things slowly.

However, I think it's much too soon to say that girls are going to quit hitting on you. If anything, from what I've seen, it's the taken ones that seem to get pouted after first.



*numerous censored expletitives*

Well damn, she said it was a onetime thing and that she just wants to be friends. I said that's cool, because hey she's chill as hell. But seriously, she gives me a little sip of ambrosia and expects me not to want more? :smallfrown: I feel like ****, I'm probably gonna sulk for awhile. Let her come to me, i.e. if she comes. I feel like such a tool :smallfrown:

Easy there guy, it's okay. So it's a one time thing, and it was an insanely good time. Not a big deal. Sure, there was the hope that maybe it could be more often; just because she wants to be friends right now, doesn't mean that there isn't the possibility that it can happen again. Just, not right now. Sure, she could be just saying it to get rid of you... but she could also be saying it because she means it. Hang in there and be friends, and consider deeply for a moment how much more action you've gotten recently than at least one person who hands out advice on the Internet. :smallwink:

(...for reference, that one person is myself. I'm kind of lonely. :smallbiggrin:)

[Sholos]

Is it acceptable to leave a message asking someone out? I've been trying to ask a person out at least over the phone (though I'd prefer in person if possible), but didn't want to leave a message. Of course, considering that she still hasn't called me back (which may have been due to a paper she was writing, but it's been over two days now...), I'm beginning to wonder if I'm not just destined to never find a relationship.

[xPANCAKEx]

I'm beginning to wonder if I'm not just destined to never find a relationship.


that kind of talk is for the depression thread. If you want to avoid an excercise in self defeat, you need to start with more positive thinking

as for your original question - its acceptable to ask someone out via a voicemail, but only if couched in very casual language

[ZombyWoof]

If she's taking Orgo instead of Bio, why do you even like her? :smalltongue:

Seriously, though, suavely-handled.

Because ochem > bio :smallyuk:
:smallwink:

Thanks though, I'm hoping it works out. I can foresee a bajillion things that would possibly make us incompatible based on what I know of her, but I'd rather find out for sure than just write it off, you know? Plus it's not like any of them are major differences.


Of course one of our first full conversations involved discussion of autostimulation in elementary-aged kids, masturbation, and sexual development of young humans. In my defense, she asked me why I was intending to be a doctor and that her mother taught 4th grade!

[Syka]

Sholos, here is some wet noodles. Slap yourself with them. :smalltongue:

First, don't leave a message for God's sake. If she doesn't call you back and you are unable to meet up with her in person to ask you out- she's just not that in to you. And leaving a MESSAGE asking her out won't help. If she DOES call you back and you left a message asking her out, that is just kind of tacky. I mean, I've been asked out over AIM so I don't care about the phone bit...it's the message bit that's off.

Second, this doesn't mean you are destined to be alone for ever. I don't recall exactly how old you are, but unless you are 80+ years old, you have a LOT of time left on this planet and not everyone finds something early on. Don't let rejections get you down. They suck, yeah, but chalk it up to it wasn't meant to happen with that person. Seeing as, ya know, you don't really want to be with someone who doesn't want to be with your wonderful self.

[DeadManSleeping]

Unless you are able to identify an issue other than "history of rejection", you are fairly likely to be someone perfectly capable of finding romance.

[VeisuItaTyhjyys]

@ZombyWolf: Yeah, you never know what'll work out, and it's usually worth it to try. Someone who agrees on everything wouldn't be too interesting, really.


Is it acceptable to leave a message asking someone out? I've been trying to ask a person out at least over the phone (though I'd prefer in person if possible), but didn't want to leave a message. Of course, considering that she still hasn't called me back (which may have been due to a paper she was writing, but it's been over two days now...), I'm beginning to wonder if I'm not just destined to never find a relationship.

I feel like I wouldn't worry about two days, especially if she's busy. Even if she doesn't really call back, I wouldn't get altogether disheartened; even if she isn't too interested, now, it doesn't mean she won't be or that, when you do see her in person, you shouldn't ask. I've gone on dates with people I didn't think I'd be interested in because one can be wrong about that sort of thing, and they've turned out better than dates I longed for turned out to be when they happened.

I wouldn't leave a message though. That is gauche.

[ZombyWoof]

I don't know about the ladies, but I never check my messages. Like, at least, I didn't until I got my Gewgle Voice (man, getting voicemail and texts delivered to my inbox is just so wonderful...). If I missed a call, I missed a call and would likely just call someone back rather than read the message.

So on that part, don't leave messages because it's probably a waste of your time (since they won't check the message). Like in Magic: The Gathering and Dungeons and Dragons, dating is a game of efficiency right? :smallconfused:

Don't play too many cards early and make the most out of what you've got in your hand is what I'm trying to say here.

[Hawkfrost000]

ok, i (being fourteen) have some questions about taking a girl to a school dance on the 24th.

i finally worked up the nerve to ask a really cute girl in my class out for the school dance, she said that she would like to think about it. i do want to eventually become her boyfreind.

this is either

1. a nice way of saying no
or
2. a genuine statement

she is really nice and i think she would tell straight out if she didn't like me.

my school dance is going to be semi formal, and we can both actually dance not that jumping up and down to music stuff you get allot :smallannoyed:

but i digress, my question is twofold

1. how do i ask her if she has made up her mind yet?
and
2. do i do anythign special before and/or after the dance

thanks

DM

[MountainKing]

Like in Magic: The Gathering and Dungeons and Dragons, dating is a game of efficiency right? :smallconfused:

Don't play too many cards early and make the most out of what you've got in your hand is what I'm trying to say here.

I... I think this is the first time I've seen a serious metaphor for relationships using Magic, and, it's actually a good one, to boot.

I think I love you.

...don't let that get to your head though. There's a list. x_x

In the world of relationships, I currently have a few things burgeoning on my plate. I hate it when things burgeon.

- Need to get Coid his cookies.
- Need to get out to C-Bus to meet up with argus.
- Need to figure out logistics for going to Frostfest next weekend.

Burgeoning.

[arguskos]

In the world of relationships, I currently have a few things burgeoning on my plate. I hate it when things burgeon.

- Need to get Coid his cookies.
- Need to get out to C-Bus to meet up with argus.
- Need to figure out logistics for going to Frostfest next weekend.

Burgeoning.
1. Mail. :smalltongue:
2. Car. :smalltongue:
3. Meh, screw it. :smalltongue:

Also, yay, I'm a relationship point! :smallbiggrin::smallwink:

[Syka]

Darius, take it at face value- she needs to think about it. Maybe she isn't in a place where she wants a relationship but likes you, maybe she doesn't like you and is trying to figure out a way to turn you down, maybe she likes you but wants to see if someone else she likes more comes along. But I tend to take things at face value.

Do NOT badger about her answer unless it is less than 1-2 weeks to said dance since, ya know, you need to get tickets and all that. Or, basically, within a week of when tickets need to be bought.

Also, you can do something like dinner but...I honestly don't know. I never did the whole date-to-a-dance thingy in high school. >> I went to two homecomings, but that was just a let's hang with friends thing.

[Hawkfrost000]

Darius, take it at face value- she needs to think about it. Maybe she isn't in a place where she wants a relationship but likes you, maybe she doesn't like you and is trying to figure out a way to turn you down, maybe she likes you but wants to see if someone else she likes more comes along. But I tend to take things at face value.

Do NOT badger about her answer unless it is less than 1-2 weeks to said dance since, ya know, you need to get tickets and all that. Or, basically, within a week of when tickets need to be bought.

Also, you can do something like dinner but...I honestly don't know. I never did the whole date-to-a-dance thingy in high school. >> I went to two homecomings, but that was just a let's hang with friends thing.

thanks, thats good advice

by dinner i presume you mean taking her to dinner before/after right?

good idea, but might be a little hard for me (cash strapped)

DM

[ZombyWoof]

ok, i (being fourteen) have some questions about taking a girl to a school dance on the 24th.

i finally worked up the nerve to ask a really cute girl in my class out for the school dance, she said that she would like to think about it. i do want to eventually become her boyfreind.

this is either

1. a nice way of saying no
or
2. a genuine statement
Most likely a genuine statement.



my school dance is going to be semi formal, and we can both actually dance not that jumping up and down to music stuff you get allot :smallannoyed:

but i digress, my question is twofold

1. how do i ask her if she has made up her mind yet?
and
2. do i do anythign special before and/or after the dance

1) I'd say about a week before the dance or so basically say "Hey, have you decided yet?" In the meantime continue to talk to her (things like saying "Hey" in the halls or "Do you remember when the homework assignment for {shared class} is due?") so she's thinking about it.

2) Yes. Iron your clothes. After the dance be sure to say goodnight... if the night went well, do it with a hug. If the night went REALLY well (and you'll know if it went REALLY well), do it with a kiss.

[Moonshadow]

Sounds great to me. Ball's in her court and all that jazz.

Aye, and the waiting feels harder than the actual asking her out/getting her number part :smalleek:

[arguskos]

- Need to get out to C-Bus to meet up with argus.
Yes, you need to be here, so you can SMACK me.

See, there's this absolutely fantastic girl who works at my local bakery (a Panera I frequent ALL THE TIME, cause it's 5 minutes from my house and has an unlimited soda fountain for $1.70, it's like heaven. With bread.). She worked there awhile back, but quit, due to getting shafted out of a promotion by the managers, and I was sad, cause I really liked her. We got on great and she was quite fun to talk to and casually flirt with (veeeeeery casually, I can't read signals for crap). Just today, she showed up there again (I was there, as I often am, working on school and D&D and enjoying endless Mountain Dew [for I will never call it MtnDew :smallfurious:]), and we got to talking almost immediately. She even made a point to, after four months, say hi to me personally. And I didn't take the hint and ask her out! Argh why did I not do this?! Suffice to say that I'm feeling right foolish.

I think I'm going to feel out the situation a little, and if I judge that she's actually interested in some fashion (probably after one or two more visits [something I'd do anyways, so it's hardly out of my way to talk with her]), I'll go for it.

Still, I feel like a thick bastard atm. :sigh:

[DeadManSleeping]

You should have at least gotten her number, since you can't be sure you'll see her there again, now are you? Make that a priority.

Also, we live in the same city, so if you need a wingman... :smalltongue:

[arguskos]

You should have at least gotten her number, since you can't be sure you'll see her there again, now are you? Make that a priority.
Actually, I am sure she'll be there. I know her schedule (I asked, cause I'm suaveblunt like that). And yeah, I do need to get her number. :smallsigh:


Also, we live in the same city, so if you need a wingman... :smalltongue:
I've actually wanted to meet you for some time, just to meet the dude behind the corpse, so to speak. :smalltongue:

[Hawkfrost000]

Most likely a genuine statement.


1) I'd say about a week before the dance or so basically say "Hey, have you decided yet?" In the meantime continue to talk to her (things like saying "Hey" in the halls or "Do you remember when the homework assignment for {shared class} is due?") so she's thinking about it.

2) Yes. Iron your clothes. After the dance be sure to say goodnight... if the night went well, do it with a hug. If the night went REALLY well (and you'll know if it went REALLY well), do it with a kiss.

thanks a lot for the advice

she got back to me

she doesn't want to go with Me specifically but she will be at the dance. she is going with a group of people and has invited me to join them.

im still hoping ill be able to steal her away for a dance or two. :smallsmile:

DM

[ZombyWoof]

That's about as solid a "yes" as you'll get at that age sir. It's highly likely that her parents don't want her dating or she's not comfortable "going with someone" like that, but offering to take you along in a group is her way of saying "I like hanging out with you."

The fact that she still wants to hang out with you after you expressed an interest is HUGE.

[Hawkfrost000]

That's about as solid a "yes" as you'll get at that age sir. It's highly likely that her parents don't want her dating or she's not comfortable "going with someone" like that, but offering to take you along in a group is her way of saying "I like hanging out with you."

The fact that she still wants to hang out with you after you expressed an interest is HUGE.

:smallcool: awesome

i was feeling kind of down about it, but that does put it in a new light

[xPANCAKEx]

The fact that she still wants to hang out with you after you expressed an interest is HUGE.

id reign that in there a bit - she may be trying to balance re-buffing you and keeping you sweet as a friend. Dont read into it. All you can FIRMLY say from it is she enjoys your company. This isnt "enjoys your company and wants to see what happens" or "enjoys your company in a more than 'just a friend' way. its simply "enjoys your company"

by all means go, get your suave on and enjoy the dance. DO NOT go expecting anything more than an evening of dancing with friends, and maybe grabbing a few dances just you and her. This kind of build up of "hope from nothing" is unhealthy and a recipe for self destruction.

The ball is in her court now, and dont try to change that else you'll come across pushy.

You're young, single, and if you carry on handling what is on face value a knock back with the good grace that you're doing so far it opens up the opertunity for things to change later down the line. It also means you're free to have an evening where if there is the opertunity for romance with someone then you can persue it without reservation

[ZombyWoof]

The ball is in her court now, and dont try to change that else you'll come across pushy.
You know, that's pretty mediocre advice. I'm not advocating "ask her each day every day for a date" but saying "it's in her court" is like giving him a ticket to never saying anything ever again.

After the dance I would recommend saying goodnight to her specifically and tell her you had a blast (if you did, of course). Then I'd recommend inviting her to some other thing some other time... maybe you guys could grab some... food? on a saturday or something.

Oh and as for the "huge sign" thing, I stand by it. I remember Jr. High School and whenever I told a crush I had a crush on her she'd pathologically avoid me... except the ones who had crushes back*. So yeah, it means "she enjoys your company" but more than that it means "She enjoys your company enough to get over the awkwardness of you having a crush on her."

*Well except one girl who avoided me and then stole my yearbook to ask why I didn't ask her to sign it :smallannoyed: The good news is that she and I remained friends throughout the years, the bad news is we probably had a good shot at dating which I didn't take (years later, of course) :smallwink:

[Icewalker]

I'd just like to toss in a general shout out to people long distance from their significant other (or desired significant other). I'm in Los Angeles or the Bay Area, she's in New York. We aren't actually together, either, I just never stopped being in love with her. :smallsigh:

Nonetheless. We're still very very close, I would count her my closest friend, and that connection will remain true wherever romance does or doesn't take us. We were romantically together for a little while a year ago, parted mostly cause it was a truly bad time to start, rather than because it was a time to end. I've said I fully advocate honesty of feeling about romance, and I like to think I practice what I preach: she's fully aware I'm still in love with her, and agrees that there's still potential there, but we both know it won't be acted on for another four years or so at least, what with college.

That was just going to be a shout out to people at a distance from those they love. Wasn't intending to tell my story...I suppose I get carried away sometimes thinking about it. :smallredface:

[MountainKing]

*grounds for sound smacking*

At least you learned something, man... AND you know how to proceed, and when to proceed. Just keep at it! I'll let the smacking slide this time; I think you've done enough yourself. :smallsmile:


You should have at least gotten her number, since you can't be sure you'll see her there again, now are you? Make that a priority.

Also, we live in the same city, so if you need a wingman... :smalltongue:

And if you get to him before I do, smack him for me. :smallbiggrin:

[xPANCAKEx]

ZombyWoof and Darius Macab

Leaving the ball in her court doesnt mean "dont ever speak another word to her" - it means dont pester her for a date when shes managed a very polite 'no'. Stay friends, have fun, but dont try to 'engineer' (for want of a better word) the situation towards trying to change her mind. If shes going to reconsider your interest in her, she'll do at her own pace

[ForzaFiori]

ZombyWoof and Darius Macab

Leaving the ball in her court doesnt mean "dont ever speak another word to her" - it means dont pester her for a date when shes managed a very polite 'no'. Stay friends, have fun, but dont try to 'engineer' (for want of a better word) the situation towards trying to change her mind. If shes going to reconsider your interest in her, she'll do at her own pace

This. I can't begin to count how many times I've screwed up and done this, and barely managed to keep my friendship with the people intact, and the possibility for a relationship was gone faster than donuts at a police station. As much as it sucks, once you've expressed an interest in them, you just need to sit back and keeping being yourself and being nice, because most likely, pushing the issue is gonna push them away.

[arguskos]

At least you learned something, man... AND you know how to proceed, and when to proceed. Just keep at it! I'll let the smacking slide this time; I think you've done enough yourself. :smallsmile:
Yeah, I really have. Still, I've got a plan, and I'm sticking to it.


And if you get to him before I do, smack him for me. :smallbiggrin:
Hey now! I only offered smacking rights to you! Also, this series of exchanges looks bad out of context. :smalleek:

[VeisuItaTyhjyys]

I used to miss people who were a long way away from me, but reading postmodernist lit theory and understanding there is no such thing as presence, only absence, made it a lot better.


"Pushing it" in the case of the Junior High dance is particularly unwise, given that it may just make her feel bad if her parents don't want her dating, she isn't ready, etc. but actually does like you.

[MountainKing]

I used to miss people who were a long way away from me, but reading postmodernist lit theory and understanding there is no such thing as presence, only absence, made it a lot better.


"Pushing it" in the case of the Junior High dance is particularly unwise, given that it may just make her feel bad if her parents don't want her dating, she isn't ready, etc. but actually does like you.

I think that's a load of hooey, to be frank. There is a very real difference between being with someone, when they are physically beside you (aka "present", or in your "presence"), and when they are far away, or otherwise not with you (aka "absent" or "in absence"). I'm not entirely sure how reading something that's the opposite of fact, yet is presented as non-fiction, is supposed to help anyone, but... I guess if it works... :smallconfused:

[VeisuItaTyhjyys]

I think that's a load of hooey, to be frank. There is a very real difference between being with someone, when they are physically beside you (aka "present", or in your "presence"), and when they are far away, or otherwise not with you (aka "absent" or "in absence").

I'm not entirely sure how reading something that's the opposite of fact, yet is presented as non-fiction, is supposed to help anyone, but... I guess if it works... :smallconfused:

Well, just to clarify:

Presence/absence, as a binary, is an extension of the internal/external binary; such binaries may only be separated in the event that their borders are mutually impenetrable, which is not the case in the event of presence and absence. Someone who is at once absent may simultaneously be present, given the variety of methods for presencing which exist; your past is clearly not present, yet one could not say you are altogether absent of a past, since, by the time you read this, you will have clearly made the post to which I am now responding. Moreover, I am not present (since, as you said, I'm not physically beside you), but it would be quite rude to say, accordingly, that I'm absent, considering that I am talking to you, right now. Of course, it's not really "right now," I'm talking to you a while ago, while you're reading it right now, however, what is for me the past (this message) will be, as you read it, present in the present, for you.

Consider, for a more concrete example, absence from a class. I am said to be absent from a class if I do not attend. Consider, then, the word attend; one attends a class, yes, but one attends (or "pays attention") to what another is saying, as well; to be in class but not attend to the lecture is in most functional senses, equivalent to not physically being there at all, as, in fact, it is a form of absence. I will learn just as little of the content, and get just as little out of the experience; the only difference is that, due to societal norms, I may be marked absent if I am physically not present, though I could be just as absent, mentally.

The delusion fostered by society that there is some superiority physical presence is a sad consequence of logocentrism, which privileges (in addition to many other things) speech over writing, in essence because it (erroneously) believes the former to be unmediated (just as physical presence seems less mediated than other kinds), and this lack of mediation to be a good thing. Just as someone a thousand miles away is absent, someone in the same room who does not listen is absent; there is neither absolute presence nor absolute absence. The notion of presence as a state of being places the physical above other aspects in temporal and geographic proximity to create an illusion of pure presence and pure absence purely based on physicality.

The lack of absolute presence or absolute absence means that, in essence, no-one is ever "present," because nobody is wholly in one's presence. There is no presence because everything is mediated; communication is mediated by language (in any of its forms, spoken, written, and even tactile), physicality is mediated by a degree of distance (even in the case of physical contact) and questionable boundaries. The notion of a "fully present" state of being is impossible, since each kind of presence is, by some mediation, rendered somehow absent; when one sees someone, one is not seeing a someone who is present, one is seeing a someone who is absent (to some degree), but was (in a certain fashion) present in a very immediate past. Since the only experience we can have of the world is, essentially, sensory, and thus essentially based in representations or even signifiers of one kind or another, one may never achieve a state of complete or full presence.

So, really, while someone may not be in a room with you, they wouldn't be entirely present even if they were; because of this, absence is not something to fear but a natural part of the world which, of course, is not really entirely complete, itself; a lack of complete absence, however, does not trouble absence as it does presence, since absence makes no intimations of completion except if opposed to presence, as in the created duality in which presence is privileged.

[MountainKing]

Well, just to clarify, it's hardly the "opposite of fact."*snip*

I'm sorry, but you sound an awful lot like somebody who's never been in a long distance relationship, or been in a relationship wherein one party is absent for an extended period of time. Everything that you just said is so very wrong. There IS a difference to being present, in person, and being not there in person at all. It's not a discount of the worth of either, but there are a number of distinct things that being there in person gives you over written word. Two perfect examples are verbal inflection/tone and body language, both of which are *enormous* forms of communication, all on their own. There's nothing erroneous about believing that it's better to be physically with a person, unless that person is so emotionally dead and flavorless that their every word is exactly like reading a plainly written one.

I'll admit, I don't know anything about you; maybe I'm wrong about my opening remarks, but the fact stands that that's how you sound. Being there in person makes all the difference in the world.

[DeadManSleeping]

Direct visual contact, audio contact, and physical contact are extensively proven to be conducive to emotional intimacy, with ability to pay attention, and pretty much everything that has to do with interpersonal interaction (and, to address your example, this does include how well one pays attention to and learns from a class). You're speaking on presence/absence of the ego, but that's not relevant to the discussion. In the domain of relationships, one should consider the presence/absence of the physical body to be an independent factor.

Anyway.

Here's a lighthearted woe: Doesn't it suck when you see an attractive person on the bus but they sit too far away from you to really talk to them? I hate that. Once a week or so I have to spend 10-15 minutes avoiding staring at an attractive woman because it's too dang socially awkward to strike up a conversation.

[VeisuItaTyhjyys]

I believe it was stated that this allowed me to better deal with a long-distance relationship at the beginning of the conversation, so I don't really understand how it was extrapolated from the ensuing statements that I had not been in one. Regardless, I don't see why that would be the assumption.

Anyhow, the whole point isn't whether it is or isn't better to be physically with a person as it is that it's impossible to be entirely with a person, but mere physical presence (or, rather, the illusion of thereof, really) is, erroneously, counted as the totality of pure presence.

Similarly, as I believe I explained, there is no such thing as direct visual/audio/physical contact; even seemingly immediate contact is, in fact, mediated. You do not have direct contact with someone both spacially and temporally, and each kind of "contact" is mediated by language, insofar as language is used to represent, for the sake of simplicity, the process of representation and signification.

What I'm saying has nothing to do with the ego, it has to do with the sum total of a person and the nature of unmediated contact. The "proof" you mention (the dubious notion that "emotional intimacy" is something which may be quantified and tested, or something for which any possible tests could even hope to control variables, notwithstanding) would prove only the social conditioning I've already addressed. Since the sum total of a person is being discussed, no part may be taken as independant of the other, any more than interior/exterior or presence/absence may be taken truly separately from its other.

In essence, the illusion of pure presence is meaningful only if it is believed; if you believe it, it will be meaningful for you. If you value, instead, whatever degree of psuedo-presence may assert itself through the degrees of mediation which create absence, and, indeed, value the mediations themselves, distance is not difficult or disasteful, being an inevitability whose only difference is in arbitrary and meaningless degrees.

[DeadManSleeping]

*sigh*

A rebuttal for Veisu.

All matter is made of what is essentially tiny fields of energy all bound up to make the subatomic particles, which in turn interact with each other in ways that construct what many people call "classical physics", the world bound by the laws of force, momentum, et cetera. While the way we experience these interactions is not fully representative of the base functions of the universe, it is, in fact, real and accurate.

Humans have a few different kinds of senses. Vision is unique, in that it senses the properties of photons. There are the chemical senses, taste and smell, which consists of special parts of the body designed to bind to chemicals and then relay the identity of the chemicals to the brain. There are pressure senses, such as hearing, which detects the pressure and frequency of moving air particles (well, technically, any particles, but we're rarely in environments in which that technicality is important), and our skin's cells, which can detect any physical pressure. We also have parts of us that can estimate the approximate speed of ambient particles, which we call "temperature" (yes, I know that's a gross oversimplification of how temperature works, but that's not important).

All of these sensors are hooked up to a complicated bundle of miniature life forms called "cells", which require other specially designed cells to provide them with sufficient environment and nutrition to sustain life. Specifically, these sensors are all linked to the neurons that comprise what we call the brain. In performing its function of self-sustenance, the brain produces chemicals that alter the function of the other cells in the body. However, it also produces chemicals that alter the function of itself, so that it can better adjust to the situation. These chemicals may be produced on a cycle, or they may be produced in response to something.

To govern reproduction and successful interaction with other humans, the bundle of neurons we call the brain has a very specialized arsenal to keep it alive and to make more of itself. We'll use oxytocin as an example here. Oxytocin produces a positive reaction to encourage repeated behavior. The specific behaviors that oxytocin encourages involve humans of the physical form that the brain is wired to want to connect the body's genitals with. When the temperature, visual, chemical, and/or pressure receptors verify that the other human is exhibiting qualities that would lead to a successful and desirable future sexual encounter (orgasm with mate that has qualities that would be ideal in children), oxytocin is produced. In the lack of some of these stimuli, less oxytocin will be produced, leading to less encouragement to seek sexual contact with that person.

Oh, and on a tangent, humans were getting it on before they had language. It's not the only method of soundwave contact affecting a person. In fact, it's by far the most recent and innovative (yes, that includes music: while it may not have existed in its modern form, the very basic building blocks of music do seem to have a role in the animal kingdom).

Anyway, let us address this realm "beyond" physical presence. If I had to guess, you're talking about the amount of a person's brain that is dedicated to a particular stimulus or environment. Well, upfront I can tell you that unless you use hypnosis (a hyperattentive state), 100% focus (or even close) is impossible to attain. Furthermore, receiving information and processing it can be experimentally proven to be quite separate! And if your mind is devoted to one, the other will suffer. Of course you cannot be 100% receiving and 100% processing anything, so if that's your criterion for 'presence', there's no point talking about 'total presence' anymore than there is talking about 'beyond lightspeed' (okay, that's not true: theoretical physicists find the latter useful). Still, while there may be degrees of how much of the brain is devoted to something (how well you're paying attention), there are simply times when that devotion is not important to consider. And, because we can't sense other people's thoughts, this sort of presence does not affect us. Well, if you believe in psychic powers, I guess that last sentence is invalid, so you telepaths out there can believe that presence is an illusion if you like!

Wait, except you can sense it, so if you think it's an illusion, you're disbelieving your own psychic powers. Now that's a trip!

In summary: People are most certainly capable of being measurably present. Physical presence and mental presence can both be assessed and proven. There is plenty of merit in discussing them separately.

Also, not part of a summary: if people care about it, its not meaningless.

Also, even if I find your basis for your feelings to be utterly wrong, I'm still happy that they make your life easier for you. I'm much happier with my own model, though.

[Moonshadow]

So, it's been 2 days since I called, and I still haven't heard anything. I would steal like to really hope that she's just been busy and that I haven't been getting mixed signals or something from her =/


Is it worth trying to contact her again, or should I just chalk it down as another example of people doing what I expected? :smallconfused:

[Serpentine]

How many times have you called, and how many messages have you left, again?

[Moonshadow]

I've called twice, but I only called the second time because I was too dumb to leave a message the first time.

[Serpentine]

Hmm... I'm inclined to suggest one more call, at a time when you can be fairly sure she'd be home. Leaving a clear, simple message if she doesn't answer, with your name and phone number. Nice and simple, and leave it at that.

[Moonshadow]

It's her cell phone number that I have though, which is why I'm a lil suspcious about the not getting back to me =/

She has my number too, unless she deleted it right after she gave me hers, which, admittedly, is a bit of a jerk move.

[Icewalker]

DeadManSleeping, I like your response, and find it very well put. I agree especially with the final details: Personal perspective. If this works for you, awesome, I have some damned strange ideas which loads of people could legitimately rebuff which I believe anyway, because they are good for me.

For Naoto, I'd say don't call again yet, at least. It's just kind of awkward to call even more, when you've called her and left a message already. There are easily things that could delay somebody by a couple days. Give her at least a couple more, before getting concerned. Not to say call in a couple days, just to say, you don't need to ask yourself the question about whether or not to call just yet.

[Serpentine]

Huh. Could be she's lost it, too...
Either way, really. Try one more time, or leave it. It's up to you.

[Moonshadow]

For Naoto, I'd say don't call again yet, at least. It's just kind of awkward to call even more, when you've called her and left a message already. There are easily things that could delay somebody by a couple days. Give her at least a couple more, before getting concerned. Not to say call in a couple days, just to say, you don't need to ask yourself the question about whether or not to call just yet.

Okay, yes, but I've having a little bit of a hard time suspending disbelief that an early 20 year old would just not check their mobile phone for 2 entire days, barring really unlikely circumstances.


Huh. Could be she's lost it, too...
Either way, really. Try one more time, or leave it. It's up to you.

Same thing. Unless she never actually saved my number and instead just used it to prank me (which is how she gave me her number in the first place), then I'm still suspicious that things aren't what they seem :/

I mean, if someone doesn't want you to call, there are easier ways to go about it than giving you their real number and then subsequently ignoring you :smallconfused:

[loopy]

@Naoto, in her defence, she could just be like me. I'm on my phone every waking hour, but I never check my phones voicemail.

[Moonshadow]

True, that's why I'm considering trying to send her a text instead. It just sorta felt a little impersonal to do that right from the get go though.

[Coidzor]

Y'know. I just realized something. I've only ever actually gone on three dates that weren't within the confines of previously established long-term relationships. These all ended badly. And yet for some reason or another I didn't actually realize this or have it affect my dating behaviour consciously.

Then again, I seem to be one of those weirdos who ends up in a relationship before going on a date with the gel.

Edit: And by badly, I mean hilariously badly.

[Themrys]

Okay, yes, but I've having a little bit of a hard time suspending disbelief that an early 20 year old would just not check their mobile phone for 2 entire days, barring really unlikely circumstances.

I don't check my mobile phone for weeks.
Give her a couple of days.

[Coidzor]

I don't check my mobile phone for weeks.
Give her a couple of days.

While better than outright purposefully ignoring him, that's still pretty bad...:/

[Themrys]

While better than outright purposefully ignoring him, that's still pretty bad...:/

Well, if you assume that she didn't expect him to call the first couple of days after they met, then yes.
However, since he wanted to wait a while, she could by now assume that he won't call at all and have returned to her usual phone-checking routine, what ever that may be.

[Moonshadow]

While better than outright purposefully ignoring him, that's still pretty bad...:/

Which is precisely the reasoning I have for thinking that I'm being ignored, but as for why, I don't have a clue ._.

I did call in the first couple of days after I got her number, that's the problem >_>

[Coidzor]

Well, if you assume that she didn't expect him to call the first couple of days after they met, then yes.
However, since he wanted to wait a while, she could by now assume that he won't call at all and have returned to her usual phone-checking routine, what ever that may be.

Maybe that's what's going on with her, but it'd still be a black mark against a woman if I found out that was the case. That kind of negligent phone-checking habit is an undesirable trait in a lover, after all. If they don't check their phone for a week after going on a first date it suggests that they're also not going to check their voicemail or missed calls when they have a lover either.

While it's stereotypically something that women are supposed to hate about men's phone habits, I've found that finding laxity of phone annoying to deal with to be common between the sexes. After all, everyone wants to actually be able to get a hold of their lover when they want to make a booty call.

And it's also the kind of thing that when analyzed a bit would suggest to someone who only knows one in passing that one doesn't exactly have many friends that one communicates with to arrange things and do stuff with, what with the implied lack of use.

In fact, however, I would/did/do expect her and any other woman to expect a phone call within three days of having a first date with someone if it went at all well. Which all depends upon the relationship of the two people prior to the date and how well the date went. There is no such provision on women to wait any length of time before returning said phone call if they miss it for whatever reason as far as I've ever learned.

Naoto: I haven't actually been following this with crystal clarity. But did you leave a voice mail or not?

And how was calling her within a few days of her giving you her number a problem? :smallconfused: Or were you saying that she acknowledged that phone call rather promptly in comparison with the couple of days it's been for this most recent phonecall?

Edit: Wait. She started out prank calling you with her own cellphone? :smallconfused:


Here's a lighthearted woe: Doesn't it suck when you see an attractive person on the bus but they sit too far away from you to really talk to them? I hate that. Once a week or so I have to spend 10-15 minutes avoiding staring at an attractive woman because it's too dang socially awkward to strike up a conversation.

Pretty much, though it's only started happening since I turned 21 for some reason... Actually...

The first and most poignant time that I had that happen to me was also the first time that I can remember that I couldn't take my eyes off of someone. I was going crazy because it was so different from how I normally am/feel. What's worse/more surreal/another thing that makes it all the more different from standard Coidzairian methodology and thought-feelings, I had to actually force myself from physically going over to chat her up while the bus was still moving, since it was that empty. Apparently she was checking me out as well, because when I struck up a conversation with her after we got off the bus (our stop was the same thanks to the handy-dandy thing of using public transit to go to the same school), we ended up talking until I had walked her to her class and she gave me her cell number instead of brushing me off or diving into her class, glad for the escape.

...Was rather instrumental in helping dislodge the specter of my most recent ex at the time. Apparently moving across the country to get away from being reminded of her only made me internalize her more for some reason? :smallconfused:

But then she moved back home because it was cheaper and she could go to a better school. Which makes our meeting at all surreal in and of itself in addition to how surreal every other facet of it was. And she's dating a girl who looks like Justin Bieber. Which is surreal, but of no relevance to this little spiel. But still. Surreal girl.

[Drascin]

And it's also the kind of thing that when analyzed a bit would suggest to someone who only knows one in passing that one doesn't exactly have many friends that one communicates with to arrange things and do stuff with, what with the implied lack of use.

Well, or that you and your friends coordinate things another way. I didn't actually have a personal cellphone until I was about 19-20, simply because I saw all my friends daily at highschool so we coordinated anything we wanted to do face to face, and the home phone was plenty for emergency "dude, can't go, the house exploded" type deals. Now with all this Facebook stuff and such, someone keeping in touch without ever actually touching his phone is even easier.

Even now, I'll say that my phone is mostly an MP3 that lets me make calls on the side, to be honest, and that I can indeed go for days without checking it.

[Coidzor]

Well, or that you and your friends coordinate things another way.

Not quite the default assumption just yet. Maybe in another half decade... Most people out on the fly with facebook would still need to be using the internet on their phone. Which would necessitate having the phone and interfacing with the phone, making missing that one had been called all the worse in comparison with someone who just left their cellphone on their desk all day and all night and didn't take it with them like the device is supposed to be.


Now with all this Facebook stuff and such, someone keeping in touch without ever actually touching his phone is even easier.

Not very good for out and about use and coordinating on the fly just yet. Especially with most sources of actively mobile internet being phone-based.


Even now, I'll say that my phone is mostly an MP3 that lets me make calls on the side, to be honest, and that I can indeed go for days without checking it.

So you're saying that despite using it fairly often for this purpose you wouldn't notice the notifications that you had gotten a call and would instead just continue to play music? Edit: And, mind you, this is all in the context of A. a first date (with the assumption that one is not just outright ignoring the other person) or B. having a lover (which, admittedly, alternate means of communication are going to be more easily available and one has more time with which to work out an optimal system for arranging for conjugal visitation).

[Moonshadow]

Maybe that's what's going on with her, but it'd still be a black mark against a woman if I found out that was the case. That kind of negligent phone-checking habit is an undesirable trait in a lover, after all. If they don't check their phone for a week after going on a first date it suggests that they're also not going to check their voicemail or missed calls when they have a lover either.

While it's stereotypically something that women are supposed to hate about men's phone habits, I've found that finding laxity of phone annoying to deal with to be common between the sexes. After all, everyone wants to actually be able to get a hold of their lover when they want to make a booty call.

And it's also the kind of thing that when analyzed a bit would suggest to someone who only knows one in passing that one doesn't exactly have many friends that one communicates with to arrange things and do stuff with, what with the implied lack of use.

In fact, however, I would/did/do expect her and any other woman to expect a phone call within three days of having a first date with someone if it went at all well. Which all depends upon the relationship of the two people prior to the date and how well the date went. There is no such provision on women to wait any length of time before returning said phone call if they miss it for whatever reason as far as I've ever learned.

Naoto: I haven't actually been following this with crystal clarity. But did you leave a voice mail or not?

And how was calling her within a few days of her giving you her number a problem? :smallconfused: Or were you saying that she acknowledged that phone call rather promptly in comparison with the couple of days it's been for this most recent phonecall?

Edit: Wait. She started out prank calling you with her own cellphone? :smallconfused:



Pretty much, though it's only started happening since I turned 21 for some reason... Actually...

The first and most poignant time that I had that happen to me was also the first time that I can remember that I couldn't take my eyes off of someone. I was going crazy because it was so different from how I normally am/feel. What's worse/more surreal/another thing that makes it all the more different from standard Coidzairian methodology and thought-feelings, I had to actually force myself from physically going over to chat her up while the bus was still moving, since it was that empty. Apparently she was checking me out as well, because when I struck up a conversation with her after we got off the bus (our stop was the same thanks to the handy-dandy thing of using public transit to go to the same school), we ended up talking until I had walked her to her class and she gave me her cell number instead of brushing me off or diving into her class, glad for the escape.

...Was rather instrumental in helping dislodge the specter of my most recent ex at the time. Apparently moving across the country to get away from being reminded of her only made me internalize her more for some reason? :smallconfused:

But then she moved back home because it was cheaper and she could go to a better school. Which makes our meeting at all surreal in and of itself in addition to how surreal every other facet of it was. And she's dating a girl who looks like Justin Bieber. Which is surreal, but of no relevance to this little spiel. But still. Surreal girl.

Yes, I left a voice mail on her phone on Thursday, asking how she was, and asking if she would like to do dinner this weekend. I followed that up with a text tonight (Saturday), again asking how she was and how her week has been and seeing if she got my first message.

As for the prank call thing, I'll clarify; Right before we went our seperate ways on Tuesday, I asked for her number so we could meet up for coffee or dinner or something. I gave her my number, she put it into her phone, and then she used it to ring my phone so that her number would show up so I could save it into my contacts list. That's what I meant by the pranking.

[Coidzor]

Yes, I left a voice mail on her phone on Thursday, asking how she was, and asking if she would like to do dinner this weekend. I followed that up with a text tonight (Saturday), again asking how she was and how her week has been and seeing if she got my first message.

Well, a few days more and then you can basically forget about her unless she gives you a reason otherwise. I mean, I'd just do it now, what with the ball being in her court... but since you did also make an effort towards insuring that interference was not an issue, a day or two might not be too amiss for your stress levels in regards to all this.


As for the prank call thing, I'll clarify; Right before we went our seperate ways on Tuesday, I asked for her number so we could meet up for coffee or dinner or something. I gave her my number, she put it into her phone, and then she used it to ring my phone so that her number would show up so I could save it into my contacts list. That's what I meant by the pranking.

...Yeah, I'm not following you here. That just sounds kind of ...silly... rather than much of a prank. :smallconfused: Did she act mischievous about it later?

[absolmorph]

I'm rather excited at the moment. In about 9 hours, I'm gonna be hanging out with a cute girl and watching movies and cuddling. I believe the agenda is Up!, Monty Python and the Holy Grail and Princess and the Frog.
Oh, and Scrabble at some point. Which, despite a, frankly, stellar vocabulary, I suck at. The letters just don't form words in my head. But she doesn't believe me. Or just wants proof that there's something I'm utterly terrible at. The only other thing she's seen me below average with is ice skating, and I didn't know how to skate at all prior. I dunno the exact motivation.

Anyway, cute girl, two good movies and a third that's probably good and lots of cuddling. I expect this to be a good day. Now to get my butt in bed so I don't doze off...

[Moonshadow]

Well, a few days more and then you can basically forget about her unless she gives you a reason otherwise. I mean, I'd just do it now, what with the ball being in her court... but since you did also make an effort towards insuring that interference was not an issue, a day or two might not be too amiss for your stress levels in regards to all this.



...Yeah, I'm not following you here. That just sounds kind of ...silly... rather than much of a prank. :smallconfused: Did she act mischievous about it later?

Pranking means something different to me than to you then. It's just a colloquialism for a quick call that's not meant to be answered, good for making sure your number appears in their phone. It's used when people can't be bothered to remember their numbers, generally.

[Skeppio]

Pranking means something different to me than to you then. It's just a colloquialism for a quick call that's not meant to be answered, good for making sure your number appears in their phone. It's used when people can't be bothered to remember their numbers, generally.

Oh, I get what you mean now. I've never heard the term 'pranking' used to describe that before. :smallredface:

[Coidzor]

Pranking means something different to me than to you then.

Indeed. So you don't know the older association (in regards to telephones*) that it might have for other people beyond your area then? :smallconfused: Generally referring to the kind of calls that require one to answer the phone and talk like an idiot to the emptiness on the other end rather than referring to the relatively benign (but which I would find incredibly annoying) practice of giving someone else one's number without actually having a conversation with them.

Or, alternatively, the kind of prank calls wherein one is verbally abused or at least has inanities are heaped upon one's self by the prank caller.

What is that known as in Australia then? :smallconfused:

*Pranking without context generally means pulling pranks on people, such as TPing houses/yards, ye old bag of flaming animal feces on the doorstep, ding-dong ditch, joy-buzzers, or any of the things that gnomes do for kicks in roleplaying games)

[Serpentine]

That's where it came from. This is just a more useful variety of "pranking".

[term1nally s1ck]

It's usually known as 'drop calling' someone.

[MountainKing]

I believe it was stated that this allowed me to better deal with a long-distance relationship at the beginning of the conversation, so I don't really understand how it was extrapolated from the ensuing statements that I had not been in one. Regardless, I don't see why that would be the assumption.

Anyhow, the whole point isn't whether it is or isn't better to be physically with a person as it is that it's impossible to be entirely with a person, but mere physical presence (or, rather, the illusion of thereof, really) is, erroneously, counted as the totality of pure presence.

Similarly, as I believe I explained, there is no such thing as direct visual/audio/physical contact; even seemingly immediate contact is, in fact, mediated. You do not have direct contact with someone both spacially and temporally, and each kind of "contact" is mediated by language, insofar as language is used to represent, for the sake of simplicity, the process of representation and signification.

What I'm saying has nothing to do with the ego, it has to do with the sum total of a person and the nature of unmediated contact. The "proof" you mention (the dubious notion that "emotional intimacy" is something which may be quantified and tested, or something for which any possible tests could even hope to control variables, notwithstanding) would prove only the social conditioning I've already addressed. Since the sum total of a person is being discussed, no part may be taken as independant of the other, any more than interior/exterior or presence/absence may be taken truly separately from its other.

In essence, the illusion of pure presence is meaningful only if it is believed; if you believe it, it will be meaningful for you. If you value, instead, whatever degree of psuedo-presence may assert itself through the degrees of mediation which create absence, and, indeed, value the mediations themselves, distance is not difficult or disasteful, being an inevitability whose only difference is in arbitrary and meaningless degrees.

I was going to say something, but then...


*sigh*

A rebuttal for Veisu.

All matter is made of what is essentially tiny fields of energy all bound up to make the subatomic particles, which in turn interact with each other in ways that construct what many people call "classical physics", the world bound by the laws of force, momentum, et cetera. While the way we experience these interactions is not fully representative of the base functions of the universe, it is, in fact, real and accurate.

Humans have a few different kinds of senses. Vision is unique, in that it senses the properties of photons. There are the chemical senses, taste and smell, which consists of special parts of the body designed to bind to chemicals and then relay the identity of the chemicals to the brain. There are pressure senses, such as hearing, which detects the pressure and frequency of moving air particles (well, technically, any particles, but we're rarely in environments in which that technicality is important), and our skin's cells, which can detect any physical pressure. We also have parts of us that can estimate the approximate speed of ambient particles, which we call "temperature" (yes, I know that's a gross oversimplification of how temperature works, but that's not important).

All of these sensors are hooked up to a complicated bundle of miniature life forms called "cells", which require other specially designed cells to provide them with sufficient environment and nutrition to sustain life. Specifically, these sensors are all linked to the neurons that comprise what we call the brain. In performing its function of self-sustenance, the brain produces chemicals that alter the function of the other cells in the body. However, it also produces chemicals that alter the function of itself, so that it can better adjust to the situation. These chemicals may be produced on a cycle, or they may be produced in response to something.

To govern reproduction and successful interaction with other humans, the bundle of neurons we call the brain has a very specialized arsenal to keep it alive and to make more of itself. We'll use oxytocin as an example here. Oxytocin produces a positive reaction to encourage repeated behavior. The specific behaviors that oxytocin encourages involve humans of the physical form that the brain is wired to want to connect the body's genitals with. When the temperature, visual, chemical, and/or pressure receptors verify that the other human is exhibiting qualities that would lead to a successful and desirable future sexual encounter (orgasm with mate that has qualities that would be ideal in children), oxytocin is produced. In the lack of some of these stimuli, less oxytocin will be produced, leading to less encouragement to seek sexual contact with that person.

Oh, and on a tangent, humans were getting it on before they had language. It's not the only method of soundwave contact affecting a person. In fact, it's by far the most recent and innovative (yes, that includes music: while it may not have existed in its modern form, the very basic building blocks of music do seem to have a role in the animal kingdom).

Anyway, let us address this realm "beyond" physical presence. If I had to guess, you're talking about the amount of a person's brain that is dedicated to a particular stimulus or environment. Well, upfront I can tell you that unless you use hypnosis (a hyperattentive state), 100% focus (or even close) is impossible to attain. Furthermore, receiving information and processing it can be experimentally proven to be quite separate! And if your mind is devoted to one, the other will suffer. Of course you cannot be 100% receiving and 100% processing anything, so if that's your criterion for 'presence', there's no point talking about 'total presence' anymore than there is talking about 'beyond lightspeed' (okay, that's not true: theoretical physicists find the latter useful). Still, while there may be degrees of how much of the brain is devoted to something (how well you're paying attention), there are simply times when that devotion is not important to consider. And, because we can't sense other people's thoughts, this sort of presence does not affect us. Well, if you believe in psychic powers, I guess that last sentence is invalid, so you telepaths out there can believe that presence is an illusion if you like!

Wait, except you can sense it, so if you think it's an illusion, you're disbelieving your own psychic powers. Now that's a trip!

In summary: People are most certainly capable of being measurably present. Physical presence and mental presence can both be assessed and proven. There is plenty of merit in discussing them separately.

Also, not part of a summary: if people care about it, its not meaningless.

Also, even if I find your basis for your feelings to be utterly wrong, I'm still happy that they make your life easier for you. I'm much happier with my own model, though.

...he blinded me with science. What DMS said is far more succinct and better phrased than what I wanted to say, which was essentially the same thing, but with significantly less detail.

That being said, I must have missed where you said that your beliefs were helping you cope with your own LDR, but my statement stands that I've never once encountered someone who dealt with their LDR by disbelieving in the very real significance of being able to physically connect with their SO, sexually or otherwise. Like I (and DMS) said, if it works/makes you happy, hey, that's great.

...but to me, it doesn't make a lick of sense. :smallconfused:

[VeisuItaTyhjyys]

The one thing I'd like to clarify is the use of "mediation," which is essential to understanding; seeing someone "in person" is viewed as a visual contact which is not mediated, when, in fact, plenty of things mediate it, just as plenty of things mediate visual contact over skype or whatever; the same is true over voices on a telephone and voices in person, and so on. Basically, since there isn't immediate contact, so-called-absence isn't necessarily any more absent than the mediated contact of so-called-presence.

As you both said, whatever you'd like to believe is obviously what's best, and if it makes you happy, I'm glad; I'm just saying that I find this is an outlook which makes distance a lot more bearable.

[Syka]

I dunno...I don't think that would much help. Honestly, it's a little bit of a depressing view. Akin to the whole "you never touch anything, really, since (whatever particle) won't touch".

What I found helped was focusing on the good the distance brought- getting to know each other better on an intellectual level and allowing us to savor what physical time we have together.

There is a qualitative difference, though, between physical presence and electronic presence. Which sucks, but what can you do?

[ZombyWoof]

There's a huge difference between an LDR and a relationship where you meet with the other person on a regular and frequent basis. Saying otherwise (science or not) is likely out of ignorance rather than some new insight.

Oh and the way those responses were worded was way over the top imo.

[Icewalker]

Actually you know, I agree with Vesiu's basic argument, that there is no logic that makes personal presence any better than long distance. Honestly, I'd say that I completely agree with you about it, the only thing that makes it different for me and I'm guessing the others too, is that there are things we can do in person that we can't do (yet) well over technology. There's no true difference in the factual location of the two people, be they two feet or two hundred miles apart...both are still just there. The thing is we just don't yet have effective e-spooning. :smalltongue:

[Coidzor]

Logic, Emotion, and Sex, and never the three shall meet.

[ZombyWoof]

Actually you know, I agree with Vesiu's basic argument, that there is no logic that makes personal presence any better than long distance.
My last girlfriend asked me to help her come up with ideas to make another girl attempt suicide and when I refused responded by burning her foot.

TL/DR:
Logic? http://www.freeallegiance.org/forums/style_emoticons/Pook/rofl.gif

[Coidzor]

That's when you report her to a higher authority. If at all possible. :smalleek:

...I hope the other girl's foot was ok. :smalleek:

[absolmorph]

:smallconfused:
On that note...

My day went well. I got to K's house a bit later than I planned (damn parents...), but she didn't seem terribly bothered by that.
We played Scrabble, made cookies and watched most of Monty Python and the Holy Grail. I may have, er, distracted her from the last 30 minutes or so :smallredface:
We then cuddled until some of her friends arrived to work on a French project, which was rather amusing to observe. Then my parents picked me up, and I got a Crunchwrap Supreme for dinner, and bathed in the pleasant aftermath that is my mind.
Wow. Thinking a lot isn't resulting in horrible thoughts.
This is a good day!

[ZombyWoof]

...I hope the other girl's foot was ok. :smalleek:
AFAIK both the other girl and my ex's curling iron were ok.

[Koury]

Anyone feel like coming over and like cuddling up and watching some TV or a movie or something?

I'm housesitting for my uncle til next Sunday and wouldn't mind some company. Its a nice house, plenty of food, comfy and stuff. I just feel like spending some time with someone. *shrug*

You? *points* Or you? *points again* How about you, you up for it?

Ha, no, I'm not serious. At least, you know, about thinking someone would come over. :P

[Krumpus]

Alright so, I'm recently married and it's been great for the most part, but lately it seems like my wife is just angry at the world. This world includes me of course.
I just feel like no matter what I do it doesn't make it better.
I've suggested counseling but all that does is make her angrier because I "Think She's Crazy"

Some background, She and I met on a blind date set up by a mutual friend. We hit it off pretty well but went through a breakup for about a year, after some serious conversations and some stop and go dating, we decided that we did love each other and wanted to make a go of it. So after a while we got engaged and then married about 5 months ago.

Our marriage has been a happy one for the majority of the time, but lately it's been getting rougher, too large points of contention I feel are the fact that before we met I was in a pretty dark place, and I filled the void with sex, She has only been with me. Her work schedule and temperament prevent her from making many close friends, whereas I have a large group of close friends. I always get the feeling that she almost resents me for my past, while at the same time hating herself over it.

We always had our fights, we're both pretty string willed. but lately it seems like she gets angry over the little things where she won't speak to me for hours and just sits nearly comatose.
It's so frustrating.

I try to talk it out, you know communicate whats wrong because I can't read minds and all that, I mostly get "I don't want to talk about it"

I really have no idea what to do.

Also I'm sorry if this post is a little disjointed, I just needed to get it out.

[BayardSPSR]

:smallconfused:
On that note...
[...]
This is a good day!

Thumbs up from me!


Anyone feel like coming over and like cuddling up and watching some TV or a movie or something?

I'm housesitting for my uncle til next Sunday and wouldn't mind some company. Its a nice house, plenty of food, comfy and stuff. I just feel like spending some time with someone. *shrug*

You? *points* Or you? *points again* How about you, you up for it?

Ha, no, I'm not serious. At least, you know, about thinking someone would come over. :P

Well... Can you spot me a plane ticket on short notice? I'd pass on the cuddling 'cause I'm not a very touchy person 99% of the time, but I wouldn't mind chillin' with someone coo'. The fact that we are both on this thread in this forum means that I probably wouldn't have a hard time getting along with you or anyone else from here who also happened to show.

I am only half- being facetious. 7500-mile plane tickets are pretty expensive, though, and it might screw up my school attendance. Ah well.


Perhaps fortunately or perhaps unfortunately, it has come time for me to report. As you may or may not remember, there's This Girl...
... in whom I am interested and who may or may not be interested in me. That's all well and good, but in the last post on that topic I mentioned several Matters of Principle that inhibit and confuse me. Among these were age (she's 17 months younger than me; I am 18 and a High School senior; she is almost 17 and an HS junior), my uncertainty over a new relationship (my last and only was a bit of a slow-motion Titanic-iceberg collision), my professional relationship with her (her acting in a play I was directing), and my other professional relationship with her (her playing in an RPG group I'm running). After discussion on RWA16, I decided to give it until the play had ended before reporting and revisiting the situation both to eliminate one of those Matters of Principle and to allow time for further data collection. I hate to put it so scientifically, but that's pretty much what it is.
THE REPORT:
The play is done; long live the play! It was very good, and I owe her hugely for it - she's without a doubt the school's best actor (better than me, and I have a huge ego), and she essentially single-handedly saved the production. Needless to say, the casual interest I expressed before has not subsided. So, here I am, reporting back...

If I could describe the situation in two words: mixed messages. I take my fair share of blame for this. She's quiet; the two of us together have sort of equal parts bon rapport and awkwardness. Awkwardness is not something I do unintentionally, and I haven't really seen her awkward with other people. This may or may not mean something; I lean towards dismissing it as insufficient circumstantial evidence. I, on my part, despite recognizing my own interest, have been unwilling to express it, meaning that she could well see the situation the exact same way. I know that I can cover my tells pretty well, and I don't know what hers are.

I've come up with a sort of analogy to explain it to myself - romance is like chess: there are two kinds of people, those who play White (first move/aggressive), and those who play Black (second move/responsive). I play Black (and used to have a mean Sicilian Defense, but that's another story) and I suspect that she does too.

This is all somewhat tangential. It boils down first to the question of the existence of feelings for me on her part. I personally do not know what to think. She does not mind me; this I feel is safe to say. We've gotten to a greater degree of comfort with each other, which is nice regardless of the end result.

Let me give you a few details to explain better:

When the question of vehicles came up for the ride to the cast party post-performance, volunteers were asked for for my vehicle and the other. After some hesitation, there were two volunteers for the other; she was not one. I would consider this by itself insignificant, but that's not the last of the data. Only about 60% of the cast was able to make it to the 'party' part of the cast party (after dinner). She was one. The question of what to do in said party ended with an unanimous agreement that everyone wanted to play my homebrew RPG system, so I pulled out the New Experimental Steampunk stuff and used it to basically run a more elaborate game of Mafia (unimportant detail - she chose to be the killer). After a certain point, people had to go home; they did so. She was the last to remain, and offered to help me clean up. I accepted the offer. When we were done with that, I asked her if she wanted to watch A Funny Thing Happened On The Way To The Forum - which had been the original plan for the party before everyone flattered me with their decision to play my game. She said: "Yes. Oh, if you were going to watch it anyway." This is as verbatim as I can remember it; there was a definite pause between the 'yes' and the elaboration, almost as if it were a tacked-on afterthought.

So there we sat, all by ourselves, watching the movie together until a little past midnight. Then she went home. She enjoyed the movie, though conversation between us was almost nil for its duration until I lamely brought up the fact that it's based on Plautus' comedies during the credits. We were sitting on the same 3-seat couch, at either end, with about 0.7-0.8 of a seat separating us. It might be creepy that I'm remembering these details; I'm really not trying to but they're fresh in my mind and I happen to be a very precise person, so... I kind of remember things exactly sometimes.

I do not know what to make of the above.

Oh, and I've gotten strong hints from family members (Mom: "Hey, [Bayard], cough cough [This Girl] has a crush on you cough cough." and "Hey, [Bayard], remember what I said about [This Girl]? Cough cough cough cough cough cough cough."; Younger sister [HS freshman 15ya]: "[Bayard]! You should go out with [This Girl]!"; Dad: "Hey, was that a date?" Me: "Not really, we were at opposite ends of the couch." Dad: "Oh. So it was a FIRST date."; these are not verbatim). I am inclined to trust them, but on something like this I can't unless my own observations can confirm. They often can, especially when my own emotions are not engaged; I can reel off a list of three or four girls who I know have crushes on me right now. Well... call it three with 80% accuracy.

Thus ends problem the first.

Problem two is that, if there is mutual interest, I have no idea what to do about it.

Well, that's the report. I know it's the Textwall from Hell, but if any of you do me the favor of reading it and responding I will owe you exponentially more than I already do for your past responses. Hell, seeing as my tendency to do a 'Kin' (from Goblins) when confused is completely obvious by now, I owe you all a lot just for putting up with my presence here. :smallredface:

[term1nally s1ck]

For the next time a similar situation happens, I'll share one of my favorite tricks with ya.

When you're in that kind of situation, alone sitting near each other, doing whatever, make any throwaway comment you like about her hair. Anything at all. Compliment the colour, style, or just say' Wow, your hair looks really soft.'

Then reach out and touch the last inch or so of her hair with a coupla fingers preferably the backs of the first two, it's easier to do naturally. Back off after a couple of seconds, but like 1-2 mins later reach out and just start stroking the end of her hair. If she's sitting next to you and is fine with you stroking her hair, you can kiss her. If she moves away or is obviously uncomfortable with it, then she's not gonna be receptive to a kiss.

Good luck. :smallsmile:

[BayardSPSR]

For the next time a similar situation happens, I'll share one of my favorite tricks with ya.

When you're in that kind of situation, alone sitting near each other, doing whatever, make any throwaway comment you like about her hair. Anything at all. Compliment the colour, style, or just say' Wow, your hair looks really soft.'

Then reach out and touch the last inch or so of her hair with a coupla fingers preferably the backs of the first two, it's easier to do naturally. Back off after a couple of seconds, but like 1-2 mins later reach out and just start stroking the end of her hair. If she's sitting next to you and is fine with you stroking her hair, you can kiss her. If she moves away or is obviously uncomfortable with it, then she's not gonna be receptive to a kiss.

Good luck. :smallsmile:

I wish I could try that. It sounds like it'd kill two birds with one stone - determine interest and make the move at the same time... Unfortunately, she's got short hair. Guy-short hair, shorter than mine (which is not exceptionally long; she got it cut recently. While it does look damn good on her and while I was (I think) the first to say so, it makes touching it a lot harder to get away with...

[Syka]

Try hand holding or some such- or even just reducing the distance. Or...ya know...could ask her out to a one-on-one event. "Would you like to do X with me at Y day/time?" Not quite phrased as a date, but definitely a specific event to do with just her.

Also, A Funny Thing Happened is amazing. <3

[Icewalker]

Sounds to me like you've got a start on a romantic connection. My suggestion? Tell her your feelings! Be straight with her, say you really like her and that she's beautiful, and well, want to go out sometime? Yeah it might be hard to get that determination up, but there's no better way to express your feelings clearly. It's how I've started both of my good relationships.

[term1nally s1ck]

I wish I could try that. It sounds like it'd kill two birds with one stone - determine interest and make the move at the same time... Unfortunately, she's got short hair. Guy-short hair, shorter than mine (which is not exceptionally long; she got it cut recently. While it does look damn good on her and while I was (I think) the first to say so, it makes touching it a lot harder to get away with...

Yeah, that's the flaw in that trick..and short hair is getting popular these days. I'm trying to figure out something for them, but no good ideas so far. There's the palmistry trick, but that requires at least the basics of palmistry.

[ZombyWoof]

Anyone feel like coming over and like cuddling up and watching some TV or a movie or something?
If you were/are a girl yes, I would :smallbiggrin::smallwink:

(I was once in San Francisco and I saw a girl with "Free Hugs" shirt... from Abercrombie and Fitch. I knew what would happen before hand, but I still asked for a free hug and it was the most pathetic excuse for a hug ever.)

[Dvil]

Well I'm not sure (since she seems to have fallen asleep before we finished making plans), but I may be having dinner tomorrow (St Valentine's Day, for those in a different timezone) with the most beautiful girl I've ever met. Plans aren't anywhere near set in stone yet, so decisions will probably be made tomorrow.

Wish me luck!

[arguskos]

Ok, two minor queries, since I'm basically a flipper-handed mentally damaged failure when it comes to interpersonal stuff (I'm learning though, mostly through this thread and observation of less damaged goods behaving as per normal). Note, what follows is about friends, and not about anything more.

Query #1:

Is it gauche to send a friend a text wishing them a happy Valentine's Day? I did it cause, well, I've got no one else to wish that to and wanted to wish someone something on the most saccharine of days.

I figured that they'd be alright with it, but is this something considered in bad form? If so, I'll refrain from such course of action in the future and apologize to my friend for the awkwardness.


Query #2:

This one takes a bit more explaining.

Ok, so last night I managed to set up a D&D 3.5 game that I'll be running and four of my buddies will be playing in. Today, one of them contacts me and says "yeah, sorry, just not interested in playing", which is quite a fair thing to say and is understandable and all that jazz. However, it posed quite the issue for me, since he's the guy at whose house we play and his loss means we both don't have a place to game nor enough players.

I responded to him saying "ok, that's fine, I understand, I'll work it out" to which he says "yeah, well, I'll just play anyways". That isn't good, since when he's unhappy with a situation, he gets pissy and ruins it for everyone (though accidentally), so I told him that wasn't necessary, and we could just cancel it if alternates can't be found.

I sent out an email to the other players informing them of the situation and asking for some help finding another player and a play space, but haven't heard back.

Did I handle this correctly? Is the proper response letting him play even though he doesn't want to and would be pissy about it? He's one of my oldest friends, and we're practically brothers, so there's that to consider. I dunno if I was in the right with my reaction.

Some help from someone who knows what they're talking about, please?

[Hawkfrost000]

thanks to the people who responded to my above (possibly last page) questions.

i have another small question EDIT: link here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=186449&page=5)

i want to wish the girl i asked out happy valentines day (by text/phone since we have a long weekend), primarily because a. i want to wish it to someone and b. because she seemed pretty upset that she had to turn me down for the dance (she was appologising profusely) and i want to let her know that i am cool with it.

the problem is i dont know how this will apear to her, will it have the intended result or just come across as me being obsessive about her (which i am, i just dont want it to show too much)

thanks

DM

[DeadManSleeping]

@arguskos: Check if your friend dislikes V-Day or not. Some people really don't care for it.
As for your other friend, don't let him play D&D with you if HE won't have a good time. Trust me, if I'm in games where I'm not enjoying myself, I'm happier when I'm kicked out.

And now time for MEEEEEE.

Okay, to be fair, this isn't an advice thing, or even a woe thing, but is rather a piece of information that may inform future woes and advice of mine.
So this girl I've known for a few months, I'm wondering if we're maybe romantically compatible. I'm trying to hang out with her more to see if I'm really interested. She certainly seems to enjoy my company more than most people do, but that's not exactly a high achievement. Anyway, maybe I'll go for it, maybe I'll never really get that interested. We'll see.

[xPANCAKEx]

arguskos

absolutely fine to wish them a happy valentines day, so long as (seeing as you dont have a romantic interest in them) you dont wish it in a romantic way

as for the DnD thing. Are yourself or any of the other players unable to host? all you really need is someones bedroom in a pinch. But you did the right thing by telling your friend you'd sort it out without him - he shouldnt feel he "has" to play, not would it be right to impose if hes not enthusiastic about

seems you're getting the hang of this social interaction lark :smallwink:

DeadManSleeping

go for it - just dont dive in head first (metaphorically speaking). Go for it in a way that if you sense she may be a bit hesistant you can pull back and reaccess. No point burning the bridges of a good friendship just through being tactless or a bit rash

[arguskos]

As for your other friend, don't let him play D&D with you if HE won't have a good time. Trust me, if I'm in games where I'm not enjoying myself, I'm happier when I'm kicked out.
The thing is, he won't just *listen* to me on this one. If I can't find another player, I'm out of luck, but that's better than playing with a guy who doesn't want to be there. I'll try to convince him.


arguskos

absolutely fine to wish them a happy valentines day, so long as (seeing as you dont have a romantic interest in them) you dont wish it in a romantic way
That was how I said it, so I guess I'm on the right track?


as for the DnD thing. Are yourself or any of the other players unable to host? all you really need is someones bedroom in a pinch. But you did the right thing by telling your friend you'd sort it out without him - he shouldnt feel he "has" to play, not would it be right to impose if hes not enthusiastic about

seems you're getting the hang of this social interaction lark :smallwink:
I *can* host, but it's not a great location, making it shaky at best. Still, better than nothing.

I'm hoping to acquire another player though, and so bypass the entire situation.

[ZombyWoof]

thanks to the people who responded to my above (possibly last page) questions.

i have another small question EDIT: link here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=186449&page=5)

i want to wish the girl i asked out happy valentines day (by text/phone since we have a long weekend), primarily because a. i want to wish it to someone and b. because she seemed pretty upset that she had to turn me down for the dance (she was appologising profusely) and i want to let her know that i am cool with it.
I think she'll understand that you were cool with her turning you down for the dance when you ask her to do something with you some other time. Preferably after the dance. As in that's when you should do the asking.



the problem is i dont know how this will apear to her, will it have the intended result or just come across as me being obsessive about her (which i am, i just dont want it to show too much)

People see what they want to see. I think sending her a quick text on V-Day to the point of "Happy Valentine's Day" is a lot better than calling her, and it lets her know you're thinking of her on VDay. Which will come across as you thinking of her on a day that's romantically inclined. At worst it'll be a pleasant surprise, at best it'll be a "yaaay he's thinking of me on valentine's day *crushcrush*", and while I'm leaning towards the former I see no downside at all to the texting plan*.

If she thinks you're obsessing because you texted her once on VDay then maybe you should reconsider if she's the right oen for you :smalltongue:

*see, this is what texting is for: informal notes and memos to people you know.

[xPANCAKEx]

That was how I said it, so I guess I'm on the right track?


sounds like you're doing fine then :smallbiggrin:

[Trog]

*snip*
My advice is to do some wooing and reassuring. Make her feel special and sexy and pay her lots of attention. Everyone likes an ego boost.

And in case she is worried about your friends or resents you spending time with them you could do a number of things I suppose. Introduce her to them if you haven't already so she knows who they are and stuff. And do a lot of communication about where you're going and who you are doing stuff with and when you think you'll be back. Or invite them over if you can instead. Host.

She may be feeling insecure so doing these things will help show her you are committed to her and her only while still letting you do things with friends. Paying her plenty of attention (if your aren't already) may help bring her back to a more secure place and get her to concentrate more on your present together instead of drifting off and thinking about stuff that will make her feel upset.

Do your best to remind her why she would want to be with you. I guess be loving, supportive, understanding, and committed and hope that that's enough to pull you two through this. I know I hope you do.

Best of luck to you, sir. :smallsmile:

[Moonshadow]

Well, no response from her, and it's been a week or close enough to one, so I'm adding her to my growing list of women who seem to delight in playing mind games with me -_-

Thanks for all your help, guys.

[arguskos]

My last relationship was about 14 months ago, and I'm still feeling the aftereffects, well, I guess it is more that I'm noticing how much it shaped my behavior. It's been over a year, is this normal? Do other people have relationships that shape them so strongly, or am I an abberation in this regard?

[Serpentine]

I've been saying "now I can say I'm really over it!" every few months for the last year or so, and mine ended more than 2 years ago.

[Sholos]

So, I just found out my current female interest is after some other guy, and so it would almost certainly be a horrible idea to ask her out. *sigh*

[Aiani]

So, I just found out my current female interest is after some other guy, and so it would almost certainly be a horrible idea to ask her out. *sigh*

That doesn't mean that you have no chance though. When my boyfriend and I got together there was another guy who I was trying to start something up with but somehow we could never get our plans to work out. My boyfriend made a move and now we are together. Just saying, she isn't taken yet.

[absolmorph]

Bluh. I was IMing a friend and we were joking around and she accidentally hit a nerve with a comment that I don't think she knew would bug me. She kinda ignored the (very real) pain that I went through a while back. Normally it doesn't bother me (I make a ton of jokes about it), but for some reason this specific one (which isn't very forum appropriate, I don't think) hurt.
And the huge ball of feel-good from my time with K has worn off, too. Ah, well. I honestly didn't expect that to last even as long as it did.

[xPANCAKEx]

Well, no response from her, and it's been a week or close enough to one, so I'm adding her to my growing list of women who seem to delight in playing mind games with me -_-

Thanks for all your help, guys.

no worries squire, just dont let it dent your spirits too much

sometimes it works out, and sometimes (unfortunately) it doesnt. But next time you need a meet someone who takes your interest, give it a try. Things may turn out different in ways you never expected

absolmorph

in situations like that a simple "ah dude, not cool" will surfice. She probably didnt have any malicious intent, and if she she found out it was a touchy subject for you, she'd probably appologise and leave it well alone. Dont let it bring you down too much

Sholos

its up to you to gauge how much shes "into" the guy - but unless its a full blown infatuation then liking one person doesnt preclude the idea of finding other people attractive as well. If you think you've got a shot, whats the harm in taking it?

[potatocubed]

My last relationship was about 14 months ago, and I'm still feeling the aftereffects, well, I guess it is more that I'm noticing how much it shaped my behavior. It's been over a year, is this normal? Do other people have relationships that shape them so strongly, or am I an abberation in this regard?

Some relationships just stay with you. I split up with one of my exes in, like, 2004, and although I am well and truly over it I can still trace elements of who I am now - my idiom, some of my interests, the way I think about certain things, etc. - to the time we spent together then.

In life, we are shaped by the experiences we have, and sometimes those experiences are people. Seems pretty normal to me. :smallcool:

[Lillith]

Okay not really a crisis or a woe, but I really need advice. My boyfriend actually managed to surprise me. He lives in the US and I live in Europe and he managed to send me flowers through a local flower store. :smallbiggrin: Which I find totally cool and awesome and very sweet and sort of amazed I'm worth the trouble.

However about a week or so ago, I told him I thought it was prolly easiest if we wouldn't do anything for Valentine's day cause we wouldn't be seeing each other that day and most likely not even talk to each other due to busy schedules. Also I know he's bad at remembering this kind of stuff so I thought it would be easier for both of us. He said 'oh yeah I forgot about that sorry'. So I figured he had forgotten and that was that.

So now he got me flowers and I remember him probing me for my address a month ago and everything so I know he's been planning this for a while. I didn't get him anything though!

What do I do now?! I mean, I can't send him anything cause it's already too late. And I was thinking about sending him an e-card but that's so effortless and kind of lazy. But, I just don't know what to do now. I feel kind of stupid for not getting him anything. WHAT DO I DO?! :smallsigh::smallsigh:

[DeadManSleeping]

@Lillith: This one's pretty easy. You have to not try to reciprocate the gift. Sounds counterintuitive, I know, but relationships aren't a zero-sum game of any sort. It's not like you're now losing because you're behind in number of shows of affection. Just let that pass.

But, since I know you can't (you're too human), here's how you can be even more awesome in return. First, give yourself TIME to find something great to do. You won't get it done today, or tomorrow, so don't try to. Don't make it for some special event either. It's great to know that your loved one can show lots of affection on special occasions, but it's even better to know that they can show lots of affection no matter when, because it's always there.

Sadly, I don't know your boyfriend, so I can't give you any more tips. Just give it your best, and you're already doing the right thing.

[term1nally s1ck]

^^ That. I dislike this day entirely because it seems like an excuse to not do anything romantic at other times. Just do something cool for him later on, and he'll even appreciate it more because you didn't have an obligation to fulfil some silly commercialised event day.

[Icewalker]

Yup! I agree completely. The best gifts are the ones that come without occasion. Be touched by he gift, and whenever you find it, send your own as well. Also, when they come without occasion, they come unexpectedly, which is always great. :smallbiggrin:

[ChameleonX11]

Hello wise playgrounders, I come seeking knowledge.

So, I've been really good friends with a girl for almost a year now, and we both consider the other to be our best friend. For the longest time, we have almost exclusively only hung out with eachother, and everyone we know (yes, everyone. Parents, siblings, friends and strangers) think that we are a couple, even though neither of us felt that way. So, naturally fitting, I've come to realise that I like her as more than a friend, and have brought that issue to light.

During the talk where I told her I liked her, she admited that she wasn't quite sure that if she had so much fun with me just because i'm just a good friend, or because there is something more. We have mutually decided that we should start dating, take things slow, and just see where it takes us.

Now that the cliche backstory is over, I come to why i'm seeking wisdom. I don't know how to do a "date" with someone where just hitting a dinner, movie and shooting hoops is just hanging out, and we've been doing a variation of such activities almost every saturday we have available since Christmas.

So how do I turn typical hanging out together into a more.... romantic- i guess, date? I'm totally stumped.

Oh, and just so everyone knows, she is incapable of forming an opinion, so i can't ask her what she wants to do, it's my job to figure it out. (I've already tried)

[Icewalker]

@Chameleon: Not too much needs to change, really. In terms of date activities, I'm not quite sure. You could take her out to something particularly special, although particularly special can oftentimes mean particularly expensive, which is a problem for many (I think here of something like going out to a show).

I think the way to go about it is to get physically closer. Maybe just hang out at one of your homes, watch a movie, and cuddle up.

When it comes for advice on how and when to go about taking romantic steps, like when to kiss her the first time, I'm certainly not the one to ask. I tend to be really slow to push these things, usually too slow, just because I enjoy being with them enough that I don't feel any need to press forward...but, seeing as you already get along wonderfully, I doubt you'll run into any trouble: if something awkward and embarrassing happens, because you are also friends, it won't be bad: it will just be funny. Trust me, I know. :smallredface:

[Maeglin_Dubh]

So, I've been really good friends with a girl for almost a year now, and we both consider the other to be our best friend. For the longest time, we have almost exclusively only hung out with eachother, and everyone we know (yes, everyone. Parents, siblings, friends and strangers) think that we are a couple, even though neither of us felt that way. So, naturally fitting, I've come to realise that I like her as more than a friend, and have brought that issue to light.

Your story has already turned out better than mine, so you're on the right track.

In my case, the girl didn't want to date, so we kept on doing the best-friends thing for a while, until she suddenly (on the anniversary of the day I found out my last girlfriend was cheating on me) told me she was sorta-dating another friend of mine.

The situation obviously wasn't the same, but the timing certainly didn't help.

The situation is still pretty tricky. Especially since right before the announcement we started a shared project together at a church her boyfriend doesn't attend, so every Sunday morning sees us sitting in the back pew together, half the church (pastor included) thinking we're together, and us not really wanting to bring it up...

[Malfunctioned]

So yeah.

Officialness reached.


Happy Malfunctioned is happy. :smallbiggrin:

[DeadManSleeping]

@Chameleon: Sit close to her, put your hand on her hand/arm/opposite shoulder. Congratulations, you have now increased the intimacy. There, now wasn't that easy?

[ZombyWoof]

Which I find totally cool and awesome and very sweet and sort of amazed I'm worth the trouble.

Call him and tell him this. I promise it'll make his day (and probably his week). There's nothing greater about doing something sweet like that and hearing from the person that it was genuinely appreciated.

Tell him how great it made you feel, how much it means to you, etc. After all, he probably did it to make you feel great and show how much he means to you :smallwink:

Follow up on this:



i want to wish the girl i asked out happy valentines day (by text/phone since we have a long weekend), primarily because a. i want to wish it to someone and b. because she seemed pretty upset that she had to turn me down for the dance (she was appologising profusely) and i want to let her know that i am cool with it.

I had a friend from Washington who I haven't seen in years text me "Happy Valentine's Say" and it was pretty normal. It was surprising, but it was kind of a nice way of her saying "I'm thinking about you."

Now we're not romantically involved nor have we been (nor will we be in the forseeable future). It was nothing more than a friend saying "hey" on a 'special' day.

EDIT:

Ex-bio girl (I have to call her Ex-bio girl because she dropped bio :smallfrown:) texted me today to say she wouldn't be able to make tuesday, so I asked about wednesday or thursday. She said she'd be available on the weekend. So here we are, rescheduling again :smallyuk: This is starting to drive me nuts... I want to get to know her :: Ah well, it'll happen when it happens, right? :smallsigh:

[Andraste]

Ah, a fun Valentine's Day of the girl I like somehow finding out that I was going to ask her out and then avoiding me all day.

[Dust]

Chameleon; Cook for her . Go somewhere new.

[Coidzor]

Ah, a fun Valentine's Day of the girl I like somehow finding out that I was going to ask her out and then avoiding me all day.

Ahh, cowardice. Never got why people found it socially more acceptable to terminate a friendship in that way rather than directly... :/

[arguskos]

Ahh, cowardice. Never got why people found it socially more acceptable to terminate a friendship in that way rather than directly... :/
As SMBC says, People Are ***** To Each Other (http://www.smbc-comics.com/index.php?db=comics&id=1670#comic).

[Andraste]

I'm pretty sure she was just nervous, but it still sucked. I would have rather asked and been rejected than just ignored.

[ChameleonX11]

Chameleon; Cook for her . Go somewhere new.

Ok, this is something that I've heard suggested before, but I have NO idea what would be a good thing to cook. I have adequate skills at best, and I've never really tried anything too complicated before. Is there a specific recipe that would be considered "right". She likes pretty much anything but really spicy foods, so does anyone have an awesome recipe that they'd be willing to share?

And the somewhere new is hard to find unfortunately, I live in a suburb of phoenix, AZ, and everything here is geared towards snow birds, rather than an 18 and 19 year old...

[Force]

I'm not the world's best cook, but I've found that this chicken alfredo recipe (http://allrecipes.com/Recipe/Chicken-Alfredo/Detail.aspx) has been a hit with everyone I've ever fed it to. You should probably add a cup of milk instead of half a cup, only add veggies to taste (not everyone likes 'em), and double the amount of fettucini, but it's a good dish. Practice making it first so you know how it comes out and what to adjust to your taste before you make it for her. Throw in a good salad (romaine in a bowl with tomatoes/peas/carrots/olives/cucumbers/what have you in smaller bowls, plus salad dressings arranged as necessary), some fresh fruit as a side (sliced apples are good) and a decent dessert. I would recommend the following served with vanilla ice cream...


(Tastes better made as a pan cookie but that's me)

Hershey all in one cookie

1 cup butter
1 cup sugar
2 eggs
3/4 cup brown sugar
1/2 teaspoon salt
2 tablespoon vanilla
2 1/2 cup flour
1 Teaspoon Soda
2 Cups chips

Heat oven to 375 F. Beat butter, add sugars, vanilla, and salt. Add eggs. Mix with dry
ingredients before combining with chips. Bake 10-12 minutes. Cool slightly before
removing to rack.

[druid91]

Ok, I'm not sure if I can call this a relationship woe.


But I have come to a realization. My stepdad is trolling me. He even does the troll face when he laughs at my expense.

Now along with this realization is the realization that realizing this is not exactly helpful. Considering I still can't do anything about it.

Which irritates the heck out of me.

Sorry, just needed to say something.

[absolmorph]

Heh. Today was nice. Unfortunately, I didn't get an opportunity to send K flowers (I'm delaying that 16 days as a birthday present- for me (to myself)), but she was happy with what I did send to her (a couple pictures of cute things I found).

And I need to see her again to get back my movie. My subconscious is slick :smallamused:

[Scarlet-Devil]

Happy Valentine's Day everybody! *sigh*

[arguskos]

I'm not the world's best cook, but I've found that this chicken alfredo recipe (http://allrecipes.com/Recipe/Chicken-Alfredo/Detail.aspx) has been a hit with everyone I've ever fed it to. You should probably add a cup of milk instead of half a cup, only add veggies to taste (not everyone likes 'em), and double the amount of fettucini, but it's a good dish. Practice making it first so you know how it comes out and what to adjust to your taste before you make it for her. Throw in a good salad (romaine in a bowl with tomatoes/peas/carrots/olives/cucumbers/what have you in smaller bowls, plus salad dressings arranged as necessary), some fresh fruit as a side (sliced apples are good) and a decent dessert. I would recommend the following served with vanilla ice cream...


*disappointment snipped*
Man, I was hoping that the spoiler would contain you saying the word "you" with a :smalltongue: emoticon.

[John Cribati]

I Felt the need to share this. I made it this morning. It's also up on Facebook, with the appropriate female tagged.

http://oi56.tinypic.com/1040w7p.jpg

[absolmorph]

Hm. K is in a choir concert on Wednesday. She wants me to come.
I believe I have a class I'm supposed to watch at that time.
But... She got a (and I quote) "little, black, lacy dress" that she's going to wear! And I want to see her in it! Or o- I'm not going to finish that sentence outside my head.
I guess I'll have to go to the concert XD

[ZombyWoof]

Update: She's on for friday, I responded to "Great! Looking forward to seeing you and I hope we don't have to reschedule again."

[loopy]

Blag... Okay, so when you like five different girls, all for different reasons, how does one choose between them? :smallsigh:

[ZombyWoof]

Who says "yes" first?

[VeisuItaTyhjyys]

The richest?

More seriously, the one you like in the way least condusive to non-romantic friendship.

[Coidzor]

S-sixsome? :smallconfused: It would likely thin the herd out, leaving the gels with humor and/or bisexual/poly tendencies...

Hmm... *examines his WWLD bracelet* Well, as far as my intel/interpretation understands things, without deciding upon a new course of action, you'll end up seducing one of them successfully and either ending up with her as a result or having her taken out of the running.

...Seducing them each in turn as an alternative is probably rather dehumanizing and definitely rather time-consuming....

Have you tried writing down what it is about each gel that has them captivating part of you?

[ZombyWoof]

@Coidzor, Charm Person, Charm Monster, Dominate Person, Dominate Monster, Psychic Reformation, aaaaaand...

[Moonshadow]

Now I'm sure that life is laughing at me... Met another awesome girl tonight who I had a lot in common with and she has a boyfriend :smallsigh:


Days like these make me want to kick life square in the crotch.

[ZombyWoof]

Happens to all of us dude.

[MountainKing]

S-sixsome? :smallconfused: It would likely thin the herd out, leaving the gels with humor and/or bisexual/poly tendencies...

Hmm... *examines his WWLD bracelet* Well, as far as my intel/interpretation understands things, without deciding upon a new course of action, you'll end up seducing one of them successfully and either ending up with her as a result or having her taken out of the running.

...Seducing them each in turn as an alternative is probably rather dehumanizing and definitely rather time-consuming....

Have you tried writing down what it is about each gel that has them captivating part of you?

Or, he's already seduced all of them, and still hasn't been able to decide. x3 I kid, Loopy, I do; I do it because, from what you say, you're far more successful with ladies than I am, and so I am being playfully jealous.

Though, that kind of doesn't preclude what I said as truth. >_>;; It's just none of my business whether or not you've seduced any of them. Coid's made a good suggestion; write lists of their individual pros and cons.

[The Rose Dragon]

So, I need help yet again. Girl problems, naturally (do I ever come here for anything else? Wait, I did it that one time, but that was an exception).

So, there is this girl in German class. She is cute and seems interesting (I talked to her for a total of, what, fifteen minutes?), and did not actually run away from my ugly visage at first sight and even wished me a happy Saint's day.

Naturally, I have no idea what to do next. We already talked a bit about school, but I'm just not well-versed in the art of small talk to keep it going for long. So, I welcome suggestions as to how to keep interesting people interested.

[loopy]

S-sixsome? :smallconfused: It would likely thin the herd out, leaving the gels with humor and/or bisexual/poly tendencies...

Hmm... *examines his WWLD bracelet* Well, as far as my intel/interpretation understands things, without deciding upon a new course of action, you'll end up seducing one of them successfully and either ending up with her as a result or having her taken out of the running.

...Seducing them each in turn as an alternative is probably rather dehumanizing and definitely rather time-consuming....

Have you tried writing down what it is about each gel that has them captivating part of you?

I have not. Something like writing lists is far too sensible an idea for me to come up with.

Ah well, I'll put it to chance. They are all cute, alternative creative types though, so it'll be a fun couple of weeks. :smallsmile:

[VeisuItaTyhjyys]

Talk about why she's taking German, specifically. Then, continue the conversation from there; in example, say she is studying German to read Nietzsche pre-translation (like angsty li'l Veisu did many, many years ago), you may then talk about Nietzsche. If you don't know anything about Nietzsche, ask questions. If you hate Nietzsche, variety is the spice of life*, so that should be cool, too. Obviously, that's just one example, but the same basic model can apply to other things, too. On the other hand, if she's just taking it because she has to take a language/on a whim, you could always ask what her academic interests actually are and then follow the above method.

*It is the spice added to a sauce primarily made of polite and respectful disagreement.

[The_JJ]

God's sake.

For Valentine's Day I got; mixed signals from a girl while we were talking about her boyfriend that is only kinda a boyfriend. :smallconfused:

A brush off from the awesome chick who I'd spent most of last night talking about Neil Gaiman with. I still don't even know if she's into boys. :smallfrown:

Love advice for my roommate who I'm pretty sure is even less experienced then me, yea, by many factors, unspecified forces have mercy on his soul. :smallcool:

And via accidentally eavesdropping, I did find out the one person in my life who is crushing on me is... my room mate.

I'm flattered and all, but I don't quite swing that way. :smallsigh:

Someone slap me around, tell me to man up, skip the prancing around the issue, and just start dropping frank inquires about potential mutual attraction.

You can reminding me that I'm pretty smart and attractive while you're at it, but don't feel obliged.

[loopy]

Someone slap me around, tell me to man up, skip the prancing around the issue, and just start dropping frank inquires about potential mutual attraction.

You can reminding me that I'm pretty smart and attractive while you're at it, but don't feel obliged.

-slaps-

Man up!

You are smart and attractive.

That'll be $50, thanks. :smallamused:

[Koury]

loopy: You could buy me a ticket out there and we could see if I get on with any of them (thereby solving a few of my problems and helping one of yours. Everyone wins!)

Also, for absolutly no particular reason, I feel like we have similar tastes in girls. I wonder why that is*. :smallconfused:

*Not sarcastic

[DeadManSleeping]

@loopy: Well, let me ask you a question first. See, I have these millions of dollars, but I'm not sure if I want to buy a jetpack, or a house in California, or an island... :smalltongue:

Seriously, just do what feels right. That's the best you can do.

@The_JJ: Yup, that sucks. Nothing you can do right now.

@TRD: Try telling her about the origins of Pac-Man's name. It's a great opener!

[loopy]

@loopy: Well, let me ask you a question first. See, I have these millions of dollars, but I'm not sure if I want to buy a jetpack, or a house in California, or an island... :smalltongue:

Seriously, just do what feels right. That's the best you can do.

Note, I said I liked several girls, not that several girls liked me back. My reputation on the boards aside, I'm not unstoppable. :smalltongue:

Luckily its narrowed down quite a bit. Three of the girls managed to find relationships over the weekend, so the field just narrowed significantly.

Ah well, at least I can see myself in a relationship for the first time in several years.

[Force]

Man, I was hoping that the spoiler would contain you saying the word "you" with a :smalltongue: emoticon.

Sorry, Arguskos, I'm not up for grabs, with or without the ice cream. :smalltongue:

On that note, any suggestions for convincing people that one does -not- desire a relationship? I don't right now, I have honestly better things to do, but the response I get is along the lines of "You'll grow up. *rolls eyes* Why not start now?"