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Loren
2011-02-07, 03:48 PM
can the move actions associated with a power only be used with that power or can they be mixed and matched? In particular, I'm wondering if I can use the move actions from one at will to set up another at will's attack (my guess is no, but I wanted to check).

Galdor Miriel
2011-02-07, 04:20 PM
I think you can use the move from one power and the attack from another. I will check in my book when I get home as my backup is a monk and this is important!

Eorran
2011-02-07, 04:23 PM
I don't have the book in front of me, but I'm pretty sure that you can't use a move power from one "full discipline" power with the attack power from another, unless you're burning an action point.

Your at-wills ought to have the full discipline keyword, so short answer: no, you can't use the move from one at-will with the attack from another.

BlckDv
2011-02-07, 04:24 PM
I'll presume you are talking about Full Discipline powers, and in that case, you are correct. You do not have to use the move to use the attack (or vice versa), but you cannot the move from one and the attack from another, or the moves from two separate powers if you sub a move for your standard. (This is based on pre-Essentials/4.4/whatever, options may have been added)

Loren
2011-02-07, 04:32 PM
yes, full disciplines.

Thanks

MeeposFire
2011-02-07, 04:32 PM
Full discipline powers still work the same as they always have so no problems there.

Let us pretend I took five storms as a power (like most monks should). I could use it to shift two squares as that is its movement power. After doing so I have now limited my choices. Since five storms is a full discipline power I cannot use another full discipline power for this round (assuming no action points and the like). This means I cannot use any of my monk at wills or encounter powers (they are all full discipline) except for five storms (since that was the full discipline power I used that round). I can use my daily powers, melee basic, or ranged basic attacks as they all lack the full discipline keyword.

Loren
2011-02-08, 12:48 PM
OK so to complicate matters, can a hybrid monk use the movement from a full discipline and an at-will non-full discipline attack from its other class?

example, would it be possible to shift 2 from Five Storms and then Fading Strike (from Ranger) for a hit and run style of combat.

Kurald Galain
2011-02-08, 12:51 PM
OK so to complicate matters, can a hybrid monk use the movement from a full discipline and an at-will non-full discipline attack from its other class?

Yes. The rule is expliclty against using part of one FD and part of another (except with an action point). Combining one part with anything that's not an FD (e.g. a basic attack) is fine.

Eorran
2011-02-08, 12:52 PM
As long as you aren't mixing two full-discipline powers together, you are free to mix at match to your heart's content.

So yes, you can use the Monk move and other class attack.

Disclaimer: I haven't read deeply into the Hybrid rules for monks.

Loren
2011-02-08, 01:00 PM
Fantastic :smallbiggrin:
Now I just need to find a game where I can play this slippery son-of-a-gun.

nightwyrm
2011-02-08, 01:17 PM
The exception is when you use an action point. When you action point, you can switch to another full discipline.

MeeposFire
2011-02-08, 06:06 PM
Yes. The rule is expliclty against using part of one FD and part of another (except with an action point). Combining one part with anything that's not an FD (e.g. a basic attack) is fine.

This is 100% true but do note that if you do not use the monk power in the attack then you will not be able to flurry (hybrid strikers typically can not use their striker mechanic outside of their class powers).

Loren
2011-02-09, 09:20 AM
that's ok, the idea is to use the shifts to get into position to land a hunter's quarry.

Next question, can I take the feat hybrid talent multiple times? The text seems to imply that it can be aquired more than once and it makes sense to me that I should be able to get both a ranger's fighting style and, say, a monks unarmoured combat if I'm willing to pump in the feats.

Kurald Galain
2011-02-09, 09:31 AM
Next question, can I take the feat hybrid talent multiple times?

'fraid not. By RAW, you can't take any feat multiple times, unless the feat itself explicitly says so.

Loren
2011-02-09, 09:36 AM
well that's annoying :smallannoyed:

MeeposFire
2011-02-09, 11:58 AM
well that's annoying :smallannoyed:

Its a common misconception though you get it again if you paragon hybrid. Not worth it in general though.

Loren
2011-02-09, 02:26 PM
It just mucks up a build idea. I want a strike with the Huntering Ranger's versility (I wanted to use daggers, spear for reach, and fists) and a monks gear-lightness (also mixing attacks against one target and against several). I was hoping to add unamoured and unarmed fighting to him, but these abilities can be reproduced through leather armour (except being to use that feat that adds +2 to unarmoured) and a weapon proficiency (like spiked chain).

Kurald Galain
2011-02-09, 02:35 PM
It just mucks up a build idea. I want a strike with the Huntering Ranger's versility (I wanted to use daggers, spear for reach, and fists) and a monks gear-lightness (also mixing attacks against one target and against several). I was hoping to add unamoured and unarmed fighting to him, but these abilities can be reproduced through leather armour (except being to use that feat that adds +2 to unarmoured) and a weapon proficiency (like spiked chain).
I'm not sure what the monk adds here; monks aren't any "gear-lighter" than any other class in 4E. A twinblade ranger can do most of what you suggest (and can switch to a spear if he really wants to, although a dagger effectively has reach anyway). Hybrids usually aren't the answer you want.