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Thant
2011-02-08, 06:20 PM
We're running a DS 3.5 right now, and we have some problems interpreting the rules so I thought I should ask some of you guys for advice :smallsmile:

So, on with the questions:


1) If an Elan needs only 4 hours a day for meditation to gain the full benefits of sleep, does that mean that he regains his full PP reserve in that time or he still needs to spend the full 8 hour period resting?

2) Furthermore if an Elan has both Body Fuel and Mind Over Body feats (EXPH) does that mean that he recovers ability damage equal to 2 + Con Mod for every 12 hours of extended rest (considering that he needs only 4 hours of meditation normally)?

3) If a Psion has Psicrystal Containment feat does that mean that he is able to activate two feats simultaneously that require expending psionic focus (maximize + empower power for example)?

4) On telepathic speech psicrystal ability: how does this telepathy actually works? Does this mean that the owner of the psicrystal can communicate with any sentient being through the crystal, or he is limited by psicrystals rude consciousness until the crystal reaches higher Int score? For example: can a psicrystal send a message containing complex battle plans or complicated information if his intelligence is less than 10? Or he will act and speak in a way any construct does (as simple as possible)? I ask this solely for rp purposes.

5) Is there a way for Erudite to gain more Unique Powers/level? A feat for example?


...I think the group had a question or two more, but that's all I can remember atm. Tnx for any and all replies!

Jair Barik
2011-02-08, 06:27 PM
1) I believe he still needs to rest the normal length of time (as elves)
2)Don't think so
3)In that case I don't think so as the powers specifically state they can't be used together
4)I believe it can relay messages but unless the creature is telepathic it can't recieve answers by telepathy.
5)Not sure but Psyren will be drawn to the scent of this thread as it deals with Psionics, he will answer all your questions fully.

erikun
2011-02-08, 06:56 PM
1) I do believe that you still need to rest (engaging in only light activity) for 8 hours before you can recover PP. The Elan's ability only allows them to "sleep" for 4 hours. They need to rest for a total of 8 to regain PP. (A Warforged is similar - it needs to rest for 8 hours to regain PP, even though it never sleeps.)

2) No, because the Elan's ability only affects how long they needs to be asleep during a 24 hour period. It does not affect how long they take to recover PP, or to heal ability damage/Mind Over Body/other daily abilities.

3) Yes, as far as I know, you can expect both focuses to apply two metapsionic feats to the same power. The maximize power has rules for empowered, maximized powers (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/psionicFeats.htm#maximizePower) which seems to support this.

4) Telepathic link (1st level psicrystal ability) only works between the psionic character and the Psicrystal. Remember that a Psicrystal is a seperate creature, so this allows you to communicate with it at any time. Telepathic speech (5th level psicrystal ability) allows the Psicrystal to communicate with any other character, as long as the character is within 1 mile of the Psicrystal.

While a 6 INT Psicrystal would not understand complex battle plans, there is nothing stopping it from reciting verbatum what you tell it to say.

Rules on Psicrystals (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/classes/psion.htm#psicrystals)

5) I'm not familiar with any, no.

Analytica
2011-02-08, 11:13 PM
The original, more over-powered erudite in Dragon Mag came with a feat that gave more UPDs. Aside from that, Hidden Power powers (of which you could take more by dipping Soulknife and taking a certain ACF) do not count against your UPDs. Only first-level powers there though.

Psyren
2011-02-08, 11:37 PM
5) Is there a way for Erudite to gain more Unique Powers/level? A feat for example?

Not as such, but there are some ways around it;

1) Others can manifest the utility powers from your head.
2) You can use the Erudite Concerto (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=10202674#post10202674) to bypass UPD - in a group or by yourself.
3) If all else fails, craft some items - stones, dorjes etc, and save your UPD for powers you know you'll need.

Coidzor
2011-02-09, 12:01 AM
I believe Psicrystals can read and with the autohypnosis skill could perfectly recall any information you cared to write down for it.

Thant
2011-02-11, 08:55 AM
I have another problem with one player because we can't reach agreement about the Elans meditation racial ability;

It clearly states in EXPH that "Elans do not sleep as members of most other races do. Instead, an elan meditates in a deep trance for 4 hours a day. An elan resting in this fashion gains the same benefit that a human does from 8 hours of sleep."

How does this transfer to Natural Healing and ability damage recovery?

Does it mean that an Elan needs only 4 hours to regain an amount of hp or ability points instead of 8 hours as with other races (that sleep twice as much)?

The confusion is brought because we have different interpretations of the rules: my player states that 8h of rest (regular) is equal to sleeping and that his character would need only half as much time for those actions seeing that Elans sleep ("meditate") for only half as long. I tend to disagree, because resting and especially extended rest doesn't have to include full time sleep only (it's not like the character falls into comatose torpor for those 8 or 24h).

Does that mean that if he would rest 6 times in a 24h cycle that he would heal 1 ability point for each "meditation"?

And how does extended rest fits into this equation?

We need the correct answer because it would greatly affect the Body Fuel tactic that my player wishes to employ.

So, what is your opinion? And which answer is the right one?

sonofzeal
2011-02-11, 09:46 AM
I usually treat Elans the same way I treat elves. You can only "sleep" once every 24 hours, and you need 8 hours of down-time, but the time that you're not in trance/meditation can be used semi-productively. The classic example is guard duty. Someone else takes first shift, and the elf/elan can handle the rest all by himself since all he has to do is sit and that's still restful. It could also include writing, talking, watching, whittling, practicing an instrument, sharpening a weapon, taking care of hygene/cosmetics, or just lounging about luxuriously. It's not really "productive" time in any major sense, but can be nice flavour and occasionally end up useful.

Psyren
2011-02-11, 10:58 AM
They can also work on manifesting Psionic Identify. That's a full-time job right there :smalltongue:

Anyway, I wouldn't let Elans cut all their rest needs in twain. It says they get all the benefits from a 4-hour med that other races get from 8, so that covers things like daily abilities and PP, but ability burn specifically needs a day (not 8 hours) to recover. By RAW therefore, the 4-hour thing would not apply, as even 8 hours of rest is not equal to a day.

But your friend isn't really inconvenienced - Body Fuel would have still utterly blown chunks even with that minor buff. Just convince him to do something else. I recommend Psychic Meditation (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040827b) to BUFF your PP instead; you get more for the same time and feat investment, and take no ability damage to boot. Plus, progressing along the chain qualifies you for Meditant (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040827c), aka Psion Uncarnate EX.

Thant
2011-02-12, 07:49 PM
Tnx for the answers so far, especially to Psyren, he has been most helpful (Erudite Concerto ahhh :smallsmile:); but now I have another qst:

Is it possible for a Beguiler with Hidden Talent feat to use both Feint and Deep Impact on the same attack in an attempt to negate his targets Armor and Dex bonuses to AC altogether? If it is, what would be the proper mechanic behind this (Improved Feint + Psy Weapon + Deep Impact => bluff + expend focus => strike) and how would it exactly work...I'm not sure if all these actions can be performed in the same round + attacking? How many attacks could a character employ in a round if he would rely on this combo as his tactic of choice? Is there a better way to achieve this effect with some other resources?

Psyren
2011-02-12, 08:03 PM
Tnx for the answers so far, especially to Psyren, he has been most helpful (Erudite Concerto ahhh :smallsmile:);

*bows*

For your questions:


Is it possible for a Beguiler with Hidden Talent feat to use both Feint and Deep Impact on the same attack in an attempt to negate his targets Armor and Dex bonuses to AC altogether?

Yes - Imp. Feint is a move action, and expending your focus is a non-action (i.e. Deep Impact is part of your attack.)



If it is, what would be the proper mechanic behind this (Improved Feint + Psy Weapon + Deep Impact => bluff + expend focus => strike) and how would it exactly work...I'm not sure if all these actions can be performed in the same round + attacking?

You would need to already be focused, because gaining that prior to the attack would be either a move or a full-round action, either of which would prevent you from feinting until the following round.

Assuming you are already focused, the sequence is:
Move action - Feint (Success = target loses Dex bonus)
Standard action - attack + Deep Impact (expending focus.)


How many attacks could a character employ in a round if he would rely on this combo as his tactic of choice? Is there a better way to achieve this effect with some other resources?

You would have just one attack - you can't full attack, because feinting is a move action. (And without Imp. Feint, you couldn't attack at all.)

If you were somehow able to Feint and still have a standard+move, then you could full attack as normal - however, you would have to expend a separate focus on each iterative to make it a touch attack. For instance, if you somehow had four attacks, you could resolve the first two normally, then expend your focus on the third and your psicrystal's on the fourth to make them into DIs.

As for a better way - I'm not sure why you're attacking with a Beguiler to begin with, especially in melee; that really isn't their strong point. At least as a Rogue you could deal some hefty damage with a Feint-powered sneak attack, but you're better off making your attacks touch via Wraithstrike in that case then using Deep Impact.