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Talbot
2011-02-08, 07:33 PM
*Use Turn Undead attempts to fuel smiting?
*Give up your Paladin mount or divine health for cool stuff? Particularly Bonus Feats?
*Keep your Paladin (or variant) powers after a (minor) alignment change (i.e., Lawful Good to Neutral Good?)

Waker
2011-02-08, 07:48 PM
Let's see.
Divine Spirit: Give up special mount. Gain the ability to summon a spirit that can heal/buff. Dungeonscape

Underdark Knight: Give up special mount. While underground, gain +10 movement speed, +2 balance, climb, jump checks. Low-light/darkvision. Spike Stones as SLA 1/day. Glide through stone/dirt. Dimension Door 1/day/5 paladin levels. Complete Champion.

Sword of Celestia: Give up special mount. 1+Wis mod/day you can summon a special weapon. At lvl 5 it is +1, lvl 10 +2, lvl 15 +2 Holy, lvl 20 +2 Holy Lawful. It overcomes DR as it if were good aligned, curative spells repair it as if it were a living creature. You can enhance the weapon as if you had the Craft Magic Arms and Armor feat (on top of what the weapon is through this ability) (Dragon 349)

Keld Denar
2011-02-08, 07:49 PM
Ordained Champion lets you spent TU attmepts to smite. Its an untyped smite as well which is GOOD (you can smite neutral foes, or even good ones if you HAVE to), but it requires you to spend a swift action, which is BAD (can't be used on multiple attacks in a full attack, can't cast swift spells like Rhino's Rush or Knight's Move, use Divine feats like Law Devotion, etc).

PHBII has the Charging Smite ACF, which replaces your mount with the ability to deal 2x damage on a smite made at the end of a normal charge attack. It also amends the normal clause that states that a smite attempt that misses is lost, allowing you to reuse smites that miss.

Third, I can't think of any. The Greyguard PrC (CScoundrel) relaxes the pally code, but you still have to be LG. Otherwise, UA has CG, LE, and CE pally variants keyed to each of the extreme alignments. I think you have to go to 3rd party or homebrew to find pally abilities for any kind of neutrality blend.

Talbot
2011-02-08, 07:55 PM
Ordained Champion lets you spent TU attmepts to smite. Its an untyped smite as well which is GOOD (you can smite neutral foes, or even good ones if you HAVE to), but it requires you to spend a swift action, which is BAD (can't be used on multiple attacks in a full attack, can't cast swift spells like Rhino's Rush or Knight's Move, use Divine feats like Law Devotion, etc).


Third, I can't think of any. The Greyguard PrC (CScoundrel) relaxes the pally code, but you still have to be LG. Otherwise, UA has CG, LE, and CE pally variants keyed to each of the extreme alignments. I think you have to go to 3rd party or homebrew to find pally abilities for any kind of neutrality blend.


Ordained Champion is a class, I'm assuming? I don't really have any more room in the build for classes, so I'm looking for feats or ACFs.

As far as the alternate Paladins, Dragon 310 has several, including a Neutral and NG good one, but the problem is that my build wants to eventually go Dragon Warrior, and the N/NG Paladin variants don't really work as well with my character concept as the CG one... but Dragon Warriors can't be CG. Now, Dragon Warrior's fluff implies that alignment changes to get in aren't uncommon, and RP wise it'd make sense for the character, BUT I'd still lose all my Pally abilities unless I go with either Anarch (N) or Sentinel (NG), which, again, don't suit the character nearly as well as Avenger (CG). Particularly, I'd like to hold on to my Turn Undead as the character's main enemies are undead and it figures heavily in his backstory...plus, I like Devotion Feats.

Keld Denar
2011-02-08, 08:08 PM
Turning Undead as a paladin is...not easy. And by not easy, I mean, if you aren't devoting about 60% of your WBL by level 10, you probably won't succeed, and it'll just be a waste of an action. Well, unless you are using the EtCR damage variant. You are better off using all, or nearly all of them to power Divine Might, Divine Shield, Law Devotion, or Travel Devotion.

Ordained Champion is a PrC. Its a quant little 5 level PrC in Complete Champion. Its 3/5 casting, but generally considered WAY worth it. It also lets you burn TU attempts for other effects. Some of the abilities won't work for you, since you don't have domains or domain slots, but the other ones are still decent. Its also rediculously easy to qualify for.

Talbot
2011-02-08, 08:14 PM
Turning Undead as a paladin is...not easy. And by not easy, I mean, if you aren't devoting about 60% of your WBL by level 10, you probably won't succeed, and it'll just be a waste of an action. Well, unless you are using the EtCR damage variant. You are better off using all, or nearly all of them to power Divine Might, Divine Shield, Law Devotion, or Travel Devotion..

That's pretty much the plan (probably Animal Devotion and Travel Devotion).

Saintheart
2011-02-09, 12:02 AM
Ordained Champion lets you spent TU attmepts to smite. Its an untyped smite as well which is GOOD (you can smite neutral foes, or even good ones if you HAVE to), but it requires you to spend a swift action, which is BAD (can't be used on multiple attacks in a full attack, can't cast swift spells like Rhino's Rush or Knight's Move, use Divine feats like Law Devotion, etc).

One fix for this problem (if your heart is set on keeping your swift actions per round) is to level dip into Tome of Battle's Crusader, and then work your way into Ruby Knight Vindicator. (Refluffed, of course, but ToB's own text basically says "refluff to your heart's content.) RKV 7 gives you Divine Impetus, which allows you to burn TU slots for extra swift actions per round.

The RKV road is, surprisingly, about as effective for paladins as well, so long as you use Battle Blessing from Complete Champion. When combined with the Spellcasters' Compendium, is just awesome, since it's basically free DMM (Quicken) without having to burn TU at all. For this route, Crusader 1/Paladin 4/RKV 7 and so on.

Talbot
2011-02-09, 12:07 AM
Again, I'm really not looking for Prestige Classes or Dips. I have my build, I just want to tweak the Paladin side of it. Via feats or ACFs, not via throwing out the baby with the bathwater by completely re-inventing the build.

Saintheart
2011-02-09, 12:09 AM
Fair enough; I still recommend Battle Blessing if only just for the Quicken aspect. :smallsmile:

Draz74
2011-02-09, 02:30 AM
Let's see.
Divine Spirit: Give up special mount. Gain the ability to summon a spirit that can heal/buff. Dungeonscape


PHBII has the Charging Smite ACF, which replaces your mount with the ability to deal 2x damage on a smite made at the end of a normal charge attack. It also amends the normal clause that states that a smite attempt that misses is lost, allowing you to reuse smites that miss.

Just wanted to make sure both of these got noticed. They're both quite decent ACFs for the Special mount, and the latter even goes towards making you able to Smite more often.