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Apophis775
2011-02-09, 02:11 PM
What, in your opinion, is the most powerful monster?

B1okHead
2011-02-09, 02:16 PM
Are templates allowed?

Apophis775
2011-02-09, 02:18 PM
Nah, I'm thinking MM or campaign setting mobs.

Toptomcat
2011-02-09, 02:20 PM
Intelligently played true dragons.

Kilbourne
2011-02-09, 03:05 PM
For it's original challenge rating? The catoblepas.

Kansaschaser
2011-02-09, 03:08 PM
The Phane from the Epic Level Handbook.

It can only be killed with weapons forged in the future. And if you do kill the Phane, it can regress time back to a point where it was still alive and start over.

Zuljita
2011-02-09, 03:18 PM
That Damn Crab (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/fw/20040221a) bears mentioning provided you are discussing the monster's power at his CR. If you arent discussing CR things get crazy (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=57301), we talking epic?

TroubleBrewing
2011-02-09, 03:22 PM
It's not the Tarrasque, thats for sure.

Psyren
2011-02-09, 03:23 PM
Man is the true monster.

Keld Denar
2011-02-09, 03:25 PM
You should probably amend that to say "Most powerful creature for it's CR". I mean, you'd be hard pressed to find many CR1s that are stronger than CR20s, simply because CR20s are ment to be challenges for high level parties and CR1s are ment to be challenges for low level parties.

For example, the above mentioned crab is what, CR3? That means its a tough but not overwhelming encounter for a group of level 1s, and a moderate challenge to a group of level 2s. That thing will DESTROY either of those groups. Horriobly, mercilessly, and without remorse. Heck, it could pose a challenge for a group of level 4s, who should be fighting 2-3 of them according to the EL system. For it's CR, its VERY VERY VERY strong.

Wabbajack
2011-02-09, 03:26 PM
A Great Wyrm Time Dragon (Dragon Magazine 359) is probably the strongest monster there is.

99HD, CL of 37 and a bunch of nice abilities like time stop with a one round 'cooldown' and immunity to every effect or spell that is not instantaneous.

No brains
2011-02-09, 03:28 PM
I've always been scared of that Hekatonkheires.

I remeber it having a huge CR spike above the rest of the Epic Level Handbook.

mootoall
2011-02-09, 03:35 PM
The Adamantine Horror is always a good choice, as are the Elemental Weirds. In fact, pick something from MMII

psilontech
2011-02-09, 03:59 PM
Most powerful, and by that, I mean most annoying for its CR - I would have to put my pick as the Pixie. Especially if you don't have the ability to see invisible at any useful range.

Those goddamn pixies have given me more trouble in a single campaign than anything else.

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/sprite.htm#pixie

You and a bunch of strangers wake up in the middle of the woods with no memory of what just happened.

Again.

And again.

And again.

**** Pixies.

arguskos
2011-02-09, 04:12 PM
I'd hazard that at CR 4, nothing tops the Voor. NOTHING.

I've had players use shrink item to pelt it with a telephone pole, and they still died. :smallsigh:

Thefurmonger
2011-02-09, 04:25 PM
That Damn Crab (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/fw/20040221a) bears mentioning provided you are discussing the monster's power at his CR.

+1 to this, Seriously, that crab can go die in a fire.

Kansaschaser
2011-02-09, 05:10 PM
Technically, if you want the most powerful monster for it's CR, then you should go with a common house cat. It has 1/4th of a CR.

vegetalss4
2011-02-09, 05:16 PM
Technically, if you want the most powerful monster for it's CR, then you should go with a common house cat. It has 1/4th of a CR.

the common kobold is clearly more powerfull and is also cr 4.

Combat Reflexes
2011-02-09, 05:18 PM
Man is the true monster.

+1. According to RAW, they can be infinite CR as there is no level cap (right?)
It's true in a philosophic way, too.

Kansaschaser
2011-02-09, 05:20 PM
+1. According to RAW, they can be infinite CR as there is no level cap (right?)
It's true in a philosophic way, too.

So, if a person were to add EVERY base class with EVERY prestige class, what level would he be?

aquaticrna
2011-02-09, 05:22 PM
you can still go higher because of epic levels

Combat Reflexes
2011-02-09, 05:23 PM
So, if a person were to add EVERY base class with EVERY prestige class, what level would he be?

When that someone had all levels in all classes, he would visit the Homebrew forums :smallbiggrin:

Kansaschaser
2011-02-09, 05:24 PM
you can still go higher because of epic levels

Vecna's Testicles! I almost forgot about that.

So assuming you take 20 levels of every base class plus every level of every prestige class, minus classes that have conflicting alignment restrictions, then how powerful could you be?

Also, this is under the 3.0/3.5 rules. If it were Pathfinder, then monster could be advanced an infinite number of times too since there is no upper limit that I've seen for adding hit dice.

aquaticrna
2011-02-09, 05:29 PM
then how powerful could you be?

hm... all of it, all the power

Runestar
2011-02-09, 05:29 PM
the common kobold is clearly more powerfull and is also cr 4.

A housecat with flaws can take soulmeld feats and gain the ability to fly, spit acid globs, and get a cr1 familiar...while still staying as a cr1/4. :smalltongue:

Derjuin
2011-02-09, 05:34 PM
Tendriculos (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/tendriculos.htm) is ridiculos pretty silly for its CR 6, from what I've seen. Not sure if it's the most powerful with regards to CR, but it's pretty strong.

Safety Sword
2011-02-09, 05:45 PM
You should probably amend that to say "Most powerful creature for it's CR". I mean, you'd be hard pressed to find many CR1s that are stronger than CR20s, simply because CR20s are ment to be challenges for high level parties and CR1s are ment to be challenges for low level parties.

For example, the above mentioned crab is what, CR3? That means its a tough but not overwhelming encounter for a group of level 1s, and a moderate challenge to a group of level 2s. That thing will DESTROY either of those groups. Horriobly, mercilessly, and without remorse. Heck, it could pose a challenge for a group of level 4s, who should be fighting 2-3 of them according to the EL system. For it's CR, its VERY VERY VERY strong.

All kinds of awesome the first time I tried one of these out on a level 3 party.
After doing the description the obligatory "I charge it" turned to tears and horrified party members as the grapple, improved grab and constrict combo takes down the front liner before he's struck a blow.

This would get my vote for a very very strong creature for it's CR.

Kansaschaser
2011-02-09, 05:59 PM
A housecat with flaws can take soulmeld feats and gain the ability to fly, spit acid globs, and get a cr1 familiar...while still staying as a cr1/4. :smalltongue:

Oh my! I'm trying to picture that image in my head and it's making me laugh.

I'm not buying guard dogs for my house anymore. I'm getting Flying Acid Spitting Cats with a Toad Familiar. :smallbiggrin:

arguskos
2011-02-09, 05:59 PM
If you're accepting homebrew, I'd like to enter the Blade Lords (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=146964) in the running for highest power CR 20-ish critters out there. I built them to end lives and be absurdly ridiculous monsters for high-end parties to challenge, and thus far, I've not heard of anyone actually taking one down, despite one guy saying his party was gonna try it and he'd report to me if they won. I never heard back, so can only assume the Lord crushed them all without mercy (as they're wont to do).

Thurbane
2011-02-09, 06:42 PM
You should probably amend that to say "Most powerful creature for it's CR".
Assuming, of course, that that was the OPs intent. He may just as well have meant most powerful monster in a book, full stop. :smallwink:

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2011-02-09, 07:05 PM
There was the Sphinx in an issue of Dragon or Dungeon, it's a CR 100 construct that pretty much can't be killed. Its melee attacks literally knock the wind out of their target, every time it hits it forces a DC 100 Constitution check to avoid falling unconscious at 0 HP due to suffocation. I think it had hardness over 100 thus unbeatable DR, and took fractional damage from energy attacks as an object, plus it's outright immune to nearly all magic, with fast healing over 100. Plus I think there was something in there about if reduced to 0 HP it becomes invulnerable and goes dormant for a 100 years, so it could never be truly destroyed. A truly silly creature, but probably not as powerful as a Neutronium Golem.

Psyren
2011-02-09, 07:33 PM
I like the Aleax from BoED. They are deific assassins that get sent after a lone evil target. They can mimic all of that creature's capabilities exactly, and most importantly cannot be stopped by that creature's friends/minions - anyone but the target who attempts to attack one will simply fail.

Thurbane
2011-02-09, 08:28 PM
I like the Aleax from BoED. They are deific assassins that get sent after a lone evil target. They can mimic all of that creature's capabilities exactly, and most importantly cannot be stopped by that creature's friends/minions - anyone but the target who attempts to attack one will simply fail.
I saw a thread a while back on how to defeat an Aleax...capitalizing on the slight differences to the original. There were some quite clever solutions.

Vknight
2011-02-09, 09:28 PM
http://www.tuckerskobolds.com/

With that any montrous race can be more dangerous and effective then even the highest level enemy.
Especially if there small trap makers with class levels

CycloneJoker
2011-02-10, 08:58 AM
No love for Adamantine Horrors? At will Disintegrate, Implosion, and Disjunction?

Aharon
2011-02-10, 09:28 AM
@Biffonacius
The abilities of the spinx sound as if they are actually useful defenses, unlike what the Neutronium Golem has:smallsmile:

Aharon
2011-02-10, 09:29 AM
@Biffonacius
The abilities of the spinx sound as if they are actually useful defenses, unlike what the Neutronium Golem has:smallsmile:

Kansaschaser
2011-02-10, 09:37 AM
There was the Sphinx in an issue of Dragon or Dungeon, it's a CR 100 construct that pretty much can't be killed. Its melee attacks literally knock the wind out of their target, every time it hits it forces a DC 100 Constitution check to avoid falling unconscious at 0 HP due to suffocation. I think it had hardness over 100 thus unbeatable DR, and took fractional damage from energy attacks as an object, plus it's outright immune to nearly all magic, with fast healing over 100. Plus I think there was something in there about if reduced to 0 HP it becomes invulnerable and goes dormant for a 100 years, so it could never be truly destroyed. A truly silly creature, but probably not as powerful as a Neutronium Golem.

Here is a character that can beat the Sphinx.

Warblade 6 / Bloodstorm Blade 10

The Warblade has "Blood in the Water" and can crit on a 15-20.

Purchase or create a magic item that can cast Summon Monster I at will.

A companion summons a monster every round and the Bloodstorm Blade kills said monster.

If you have the Bloodstorm Blade and the companion practice like this for 8 hours, then the Bloodstorm Blade will have an average of +1,440 to attack and damage.

At the end of the 8 hour period, teleport to the Sphinx and kill it in a few hits.

JeminiZero
2011-02-10, 09:49 AM
And of course there is the classic Half-Clay-Golem Voidmind Were-Dire-Bat Gheden Half-Troll Air Racial Variant War Troll.

Vknight
2011-02-10, 09:57 AM
That creature is so filled with cheese that I could make the entire continenet of North America sick

WinWin
2011-02-10, 10:16 AM
And of course there is the classic Half-Clay-Golem Voidmind Were-Dire-Bat Gheden Half-Troll Air Racial Variant War Troll.

Can't that squeeze in Dustform/Elder Eidolon and Incarnate Soulfused Construct? Or is feat loss a problem?

JeminiZero
2011-02-10, 08:38 PM
Can't that squeeze in Dustform/Elder Eidolon and Incarnate Soulfused Construct? Or is feat loss a problem?

Soulfused Construct apparently grants/restores feats since it possesses intelligence, so its not a feat problem.

However, Elder Eidolon causes them to lose Special Qualities which includes Regeneration. And Dustform makes them vulnerable to critical hits from Bludgeoning weapons.

Thurbane
2011-02-10, 08:44 PM
So what is the single highest (untemplated or levelled) CR monster in an "official" WotC book? Presumably something from the ELH, or maybe an archfiend?

arguskos
2011-02-10, 08:44 PM
And of course there is the classic Half-Clay-Golem Voidmind Were-Dire-Bat Gheden Half-Troll Air Racial Variant War Troll.
This is the standing Emerald Legionnaire, isn't it? Man, I love the Legion. Such a great work of art.

Dusk Eclipse
2011-02-10, 08:46 PM
So what is the single highest (untemplated or levelled) CR monster in an "official" WotC book? Presumably something from the ELH, or maybe an archfiend?

TTBOMK it is the Great Wyrm Prismatic Dragon, I don't remeber its actual CR, but I am sure it was 80 or at least near it (the wyrminlg did stuck on my mind, CR 16!!! and huge size, just out of the egg.)

JeminiZero
2011-02-10, 08:56 PM
This is the standing Emerald Legionnaire, isn't it? Man, I love the Legion. Such a great work of art.

They've been slightly revised actually. The original used Were-Dire-Shark to get water breath, but I recently figured out that using Air Racial Variant Trolls/War-Trolls grants outright suffocation immunity which is much better.

Emerald Legion: Now able to fight in sppaaacccceeeee

SurlySeraph
2011-02-10, 09:11 PM
The Phane from the Epic Level Handbook.

It can only be killed with weapons forged in the future. And if you do kill the Phane, it can regress time back to a point where it was still alive and start over.

And by good and holy weapons, and any number of spells. And for that regression to work, it needs to a) not die within the first 3 rounds, b) have its regression kick in at the round it wants it to, and c) have the DM define what kind of "action per round" it needs to spend for it to work, because the book doesn't say if it's a standard action, move, swift, free, or what.
If it could only be killed by weapons forged in the future and not by any spells, repeated Time Hop to get there and Teleport Through Time to get back and then bashing it to death would do it. Total pain, though.


A Great Wyrm Time Dragon (Dragon Magazine 359) is probably the strongest monster there is.

99HD, CL of 37 and a bunch of nice abilities like time stop with a one round 'cooldown' and immunity to every effect or spell that is not instantaneous.

Cool. Sounds like it'd just be a matter of doing silly amounts of damage to it before it decides it should have eaten you last year, but cool. I'd love to hear more details on it.


There was the Sphinx in an issue of Dragon or Dungeon, it's a CR 100 construct that pretty much can't be killed. Its melee attacks literally knock the wind out of their target, every time it hits it forces a DC 100 Constitution check to avoid falling unconscious at 0 HP due to suffocation. I think it had hardness over 100 thus unbeatable DR, and took fractional damage from energy attacks as an object, plus it's outright immune to nearly all magic, with fast healing over 100. Plus I think there was something in there about if reduced to 0 HP it becomes invulnerable and goes dormant for a 100 years, so it could never be truly destroyed. A truly silly creature, but probably not as powerful as a Neutronium Golem.

Nice. Uh, Shards of Granite to ignore its DR, be Necropolitan or otherwise not need to breathe to not have an issue with suffocating, cast Incarnate Construct to make it count as living and thus be vulnerable to Graymantle, cast Graymantle as a supernatural ability (assuming it isn't immune to Su) to negate its fast healing, and beat it to death. Or you could just Ubercharge it, but that's too straightforward to be fun. In any case, finish by towing it into the sun or center of the earth so it'll immediately be go dormant again once it comes back.


So, if a person were to add EVERY base class with EVERY prestige class, what level would he be?

He would have taken 10 levels in Risen Martyr and have become unplayable as a result. Seriously. It's capstone feature is that the character ascends to heaven and can't be played anymore.
For a serious answer, the official WotC prestige class list (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/lists/prc) has 782 entries, and the base class list has 175 entries. (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/lists/class) Some of the PrCs are 5 or 3 levels, and there are many that you can't enter without being a particular race or in some way not having the requirements for other ones, but you can get a decent if high estimate by assuming there are 7820 PrC levels out there for you to take. I count 53 base classes once you remove NPC classes, racial levels, ACFs, the ones that require you to be a ghost, etc, so there should be 1060 base class levels to take, for a final result of a level 8,880 character.


And of course there is the classic Half-Clay-Golem Voidmind Were-Dire-Bat Gheden Half-Troll Air Racial Variant War Troll.

Looks unkillable. Incarnate Construct + Graymantle wouldn't work even if you found a way around its magic immunity because it's already living, and immunity to piercing and slashing stops Trollbane. (Gah, why is Half-Clay Golem immune to supernatural abilities? Real clay golems aren't immune to that!)
You could cast Move Earth/ Disintegrate/ Earthquake over and over until it stops moving and then a) attempt a Wish or Miracle to stop it from regenerating like with the Tarrasque, or b) bury it somewhere, and have flashbacks every time you look at a Wand of Move Earth for the rest of your life.

LOTRfan
2011-02-10, 09:12 PM
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=10349794

As someone mentioned before, the Time Dragon is CR 90. Plus, if you almost kill it, it can travel back in time and kill you while you were still a 1st level warrior. Technically it wasn't in a book (it was Dragon #359), but yikes. :smalleek:

mootoall
2011-02-10, 09:28 PM
No love for Adamantine Horrors? At will Disintegrate, Implosion, and Disjunction?


The Adamantine Horror is always a good choice, as are the Elemental Weirds. In fact, pick something from MMII

Beat you to it :smallwink:

LOTRfan
2011-02-10, 09:32 PM
Speaking of the Monster Manual II, someone should really try to fix the CRs for those. Perhaps I'll start a "Let's Read" thread for that purpose...

Fox Box Socks
2011-02-10, 09:33 PM
Not sure how strong he is for his CR, Asmodeus (and to a lesser extend the Aspect of Asmodeus) is stupidly powerful and rather annoying (mind control aura is just kind of ridiculous).

I remember Pale Night being really annoying too, if only because of Truth Beyond the Veil.

Wabbajack
2011-02-10, 09:49 PM
I just realized that a Time Dragon could maybe even kill an Emerald Legionnaire. One use of it's breath weapon can age creatures and objects by 1 year per age category of the dragon :D

Gorgondantess
2011-02-10, 10:36 PM
I just realized that a Time Dragon could maybe even kill an Emerald Legionnaire. One use of it's breath weapon can age creatures and objects by 1 year per age category of the dragon :D

Or it could just go back in time and kill the mindflayers before the legion even gets off the ground.:smalltongue:
'Sides, at least one of those templates has got to give agelessness.

CycloneJoker
2011-02-10, 11:27 PM
Beat you to it :smallwink:

So you did. Whoops.

No brains
2011-02-12, 03:55 PM
And of course there is the classic Half-Clay-Golem Voidmind Were-Dire-Bat Gheden Half-Troll Air Racial Variant War Troll.

May I get a link to this?

Volthawk
2011-02-12, 04:08 PM
May I get a link to this?

In his sig. "The Emerald Legion."

Waker
2011-02-12, 04:42 PM
Nice. Uh, Shards of Granite to ignore its DR, be Necropolitan or otherwise not need to breathe to not have an issue with suffocating, cast Incarnate Construct to make it count as living and thus be vulnerable to Graymantle, cast Graymantle as a supernatural ability (assuming it isn't immune to Su) to negate its fast healing, and beat it to death. Or you could just Ubercharge it, but that's too straightforward to be fun. In any case, finish by towing it into the sun or center of the earth so it'll immediately be go dormant again once it comes back.
Small thing, but just felt like pointing out.

plus it's outright immune to nearly all magic
Incarnate Construct does allow SR so the spell couldn't work on it. Now if the Sphinx decided to lower it's SR for some reason, then it could, but otherwise nope.

Sine
2011-02-12, 06:00 PM
Io (http://teqsun.blogspot.com/2010/11/sometimes-i-get-really-bad-ideas.html) is clearly the bestest, but I don't think homebrew monsters count. :smallsmile:


I just realized that a Time Dragon could maybe even kill an Emerald Legionnaire. One use of it's breath weapon can age creatures and objects by 1 year per age category of the dragon :D
Yeah, I think time dragons are the coolest meanest things that don't need a half dozen templates or virtual age categories.

Either them, or any deity with the auto-kill SLA, but deities are essentially plot devices so I don't think they count.

Skaven
2011-02-12, 06:08 PM
Man is the true monster.

This, nothing beats fighting the players with their own weapons.

SurlySeraph
2011-02-12, 06:30 PM
Small thing, but just felt like pointing out.

Incarnate Construct does allow SR so the spell couldn't work on it. Now if the Sphinx decided to lower it's SR for some reason, then it could, but otherwise nope.

Good point. Guess the "Hit it really really hard" approach is best, then.

Last Laugh
2011-02-12, 06:31 PM
Or you could just Ubercharge it,


This took me the longest time to decipher. (Why would making it invincible for 8 seconds be beneficial?) too much tf2.

DarthCyberWolf
2011-02-12, 07:44 PM
The most powerful monster? The DM.

CR: You wish you were this high.
Type (and subtype): Nothing you can affect.
Hit Points: Always has at least 2.
Initiative: Goes first.
Armor Class: No. (Touch – You can’t touch this. Flat-footed – Yeah right.)
Special Attacks: DM’s Rocks. Campaign banning. Character veto.
Special Qualities: Know everything. Interplanar abilities. Evasion. Mettle. Rule 0. Control NPCs. Summon Encounter.
Saving Throws: Yes.
Immunities: Yes.
DR: All of it/No.
SR: Yes.
Weaknesses: DM’s girl friend.

DM’s Rocks: At will. Rocks fall, everybody dies.
Campaign Banning: Once per session. Ban a player from the campaign. That player’s character(s) become an NPC under the control of the DM.
Character Veto: At will. May deny or change a class, race, alignment, feat, skill, spell, or ability from a player.
Know Everything: Knows what’s happening anywhere at all times. Also knows what players are about to do.
Interplanar Abilities: All abilities used by the DM may affect anything across any plane at any time.
Rule 0: At will. All classes, feats, skills, spells, abilities, and stats may be changed to anything at any time.
Control NPCs: All NPCs are under the DM’s complete control at all times.
Summon Encounter: At will. May cause an encounter of any type and CR to appear.

(Weaknesses) DM’s Girl Friend: Ignores all immunities, DR, SR, and AC of DM. The DM automatically fails all saving throws and opposed rolls against the DM’s girl friend. The DM’s girl friend may not be affected by any DM ability unless she allows it, and may take control of DM’s abilities once per session (when during a session) or at will (when not during a session).

Shalist
2011-02-12, 07:51 PM
There was the Sphinx in an issue of Dragon or Dungeon, it's a CR 100 construct...


Mace of Smiting

This +3 adamantine heavy mace has a +5 enhancement bonus against constructs, and any critical hit dealt to a construct completely destroys it (no saving throw).

Weaponshift it into a scimitar and use improved crit, combined with autoconfirm via bless or whatever, and you've got a 30% of killing it--even if you can't even get past its hardness / healing--with every swing.

Tvtyrant
2011-02-12, 09:06 PM
This took me the longest time to decipher. (Why would making it invincible for 8 seconds be beneficial?) too much tf2.

This statement if Full of Win

Cheesy74
2011-02-12, 10:17 PM
Has the neutronium golem (http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x230/ExarKun4321/1210695483931.png) seriously only been mentioned in passing? It's a sentient neutron star that can punch planets asunder for goodness' sake.

PersonMan
2011-02-12, 10:22 PM
Has the neutronium golem (http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x230/ExarKun4321/1210695483931.png) seriously only been mentioned in passing? It's a sentient neutron star that can punch planets asunder for goodness' sake.

Isn't it not immune to it's own aura? So it'd just burn itself to destruction after a while?

SurlySeraph
2011-02-12, 11:38 PM
Has the neutronium golem (http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x230/ExarKun4321/1210695483931.png) seriously only been mentioned in passing? It's a sentient neutron star that can punch planets asunder for goodness' sake.

Since I love sideways ways of attacking: its AC is mostly natural armor. Incorporeal things don't get natural armor. Its Magnetar ability gives it Spell Stowaway for "any magical methods of movement." Whee, cast Ethereal Jaunt and it's AC goes down to 88!

Be immune to fire, which is easy, and its Heat Aura and Pulsed X-Ray means nothing.

Death Ward, being Necropolitan... evading the Gravitic Aura isn't too big a deal.

I don't see any divine rank on there, so natural ones mean it fails. Get lots of Slaying Arrows, an attack bonus high enough to reliably hit AC 88, a Force Bow so its DR means nothing, and shoot it until it rolls a 1.

Contingent Teleport or Plane Shift to escape when it explodes would be nice, but killing a CR 9,721 is a glorious enough death for anyone.

EDIT: You handle its high Initiative by casting Celerity, and its insta-death punches by stacking miss chances, or Abrupt Jaunt, or by Ironguard if your DM isn't big on physics.

Also, constructs are immune to ability damage and drain, but not to ability penalties. I'm not going to go book-diving for ways to put penalties on Dex, Wis, or Cha; I leave that as an exercise for the reader.

EDIT EDIT: You know what's great about enemies that move at the speed of light? They still have to take move actions like everybody else. And this one only has 10 feet of reach. I'm thinking a Warblade-based Ruby Knight Vindicator with Evasive Reflexes, Rapid Counter, and that practice dummy that lets you make 10-foot five-foot-steps. Keep Thicket of Blades up for AoOs whenever it comes for you. Whenever it tries to get up to you, you use your AoO to step out of its reach, then smack it with Rapid Counter. Due to being a Windicator, you can get all the swift actions you want, so recovering your maneuvers and using a counter every round isn't a problem. And you just keep stepping away and beat the silly thing to death.

Tenebris
2011-02-13, 03:44 AM
Huh, we almost forgot the Lady of Pain.

Thou shall not mention that name again. Your recklessness will bring you only a horrifying death, as it did to many before you.

Besides: race unknown, class unknown, overall power - no idea. Her Serenity [waiting for blades - nothing?! - looks like I was allowed to live another day] seems to be only an avatar of GM in a game, as lord Ao is in FR. Their power is beyond measure, they can hardly be challenged by anything nor really be called "monsters". They are little out of touch with the game's universe since they cannot and shall not be classified by any numbers of any system.