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The Vorpal Tribble
2011-02-09, 10:57 PM
In my campaign I'm using Metal as an element. Basically it is a refinement and strengthening of the other base elements.

For example iron, bronze, steel, adamantine, etc, are a refinement of earth.

Blue Ice and riverine is a refinement of water.

Iron wood is a refinement of wood (which I'm also using as an element).

What materials are out there that would be a refinement of air and fire?

NichG
2011-02-09, 11:01 PM
You could take Mithril as a refinement of air due to its lightness and appearance. Or if you wanted to go further, you could have a lighter-than-air solid (floatstone or something).

For fire... maybe something like flint that sparks whenever it strikes something? In one of Tom Deitz' series, theres a substance called 'Fire Frozen in Time' which is a super-strong material that glows, but there's little detail beyond that.

NMBLNG
2011-02-09, 11:03 PM
Air: Titanium, mithril, aluminium, and other lightweight metals.

Fire: Tungsten, iridium, and other metals that resist heat or are associated with heat.

I had some more ideas, but I forgot them while I was typing...

LibraryOgre
2011-02-09, 11:04 PM
Mithral, light as it is, should be a refinement of air. Perhaps silver, too.

For fire, you might go with gold... malleable, looks like sunlight, and conducts heat well.

How does this interact with metallic dragons and their elemental affinities?

The_Snark
2011-02-09, 11:09 PM
Lightning strikes me as a good refinement for fire. It's not as solid as the examples you gave, but you're dealing with an element that is insubstantial by nature, and it feels right to me.

As for air... tricky, for much the same reason. I'm tempted to say some kind of ice or crystal, as that's what comes to mind when I imagine trying to refine and solidify air. But you've already got blue ice filed under water (and really, water has more claim to ice and the like). Glass, perhaps?

NMBLNG
2011-02-09, 11:11 PM
+1 Glass for Air.

Eurus
2011-02-09, 11:16 PM
Especially blown glass.

Ravens_cry
2011-02-09, 11:18 PM
In Chinese Elementalism, Wood and Metal are Elements in their own right. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wu_Xing) Air however isn't.

The Vorpal Tribble
2011-02-09, 11:19 PM
While those are interesting ideas, none of them are actually 'made' of that element. They are just earth that happens to share physical appearances with it.

If there isn't a metal actually made of fire or air I'd just assume homebrew it. Thought I'd read of a substance that was like literal solidified hellfire for example.


In Chinese Elementalism, Wood and Metal are Elements in their own right. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wu_Xing) Air however isn't.
Huh, that was actually what I was using. Forgot there is no air. Not sure if I'll put it in or not. What did they think was wind?


How does this interact with metallic dragons and their elemental affinities?
No dragons in my campaign. At all.

tonberrian
2011-02-09, 11:23 PM
I'd put steel under fire, myself. Any alloy, in fact, since it goes through the forge fire and is smelted down.

Aside from that, something with all the impurities burned away, or something that easily burns - copper and oil for respective examples.

WinWin
2011-02-09, 11:50 PM
Huh, that was actually what I was using. Forgot there is no air. Not sure if I'll put it in or not. What did they think was wind?


5 Elements are used in TCM. They correspond to various organs and conditions.

The metal element corresponded with the lungs and breath, in some ways it relates to air.

The Ba Gua on the other hand is probably what you should be looking at, not the 5 elements. The Ba Gua describes 8 'elements' that make up the world and correspond better with western classical beliefs than the 5 elements used in medicine and Feng Shui.

Mountains, Wind, Mud, etc.

Uncertainty
2011-02-09, 11:55 PM
+1 Glass for Air.

I seem to remember seeing a metal somewhere called Glassteel... Essentially, it's exactly what it sounds like.

Alternatively: Transparent Aluminum (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UdROuQHGW80).

RTGoodman
2011-02-09, 11:57 PM
How about obsidian for fire? (Yes, it's more a stone than a metal, but it's MADE OF LAVA!)

Human Paragon 3
2011-02-10, 12:22 AM
Living beings are a refinement of fire, especially sentient beings, who are children of fire and rely on fire for their lives and livelihoods.

*.*.*.*
2011-02-10, 03:19 AM
Metalcasters
http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w242/rabidgopher1988/Dethklokband.png

Saintheart
2011-02-10, 07:24 AM
Would a Brilliant, or even an Everbright weapon, be a refinement of Fire? Both basically turn your sword into a lightsaber. :smallwink:

hewhosaysfish
2011-02-10, 09:47 AM
Vacuum/Void for Air?

There is a "Hellfire" in DnD which is fire-so-hot-it-even-burns-things-immune-to-fire.

SITB
2011-02-10, 10:18 AM
There is a "Hellfire" in DnD which is fire-so-hot-it-even-burns-things-immune-to-fire.

Isn't Hellfire exclussive to demons/devils? I thought it was simple raw hatred that behaves like a fire rather than an actual fire.

Telonius
2011-02-10, 11:15 AM
For Fire: Ysgardian Heartwire (BoED), Flametouched Iron (Eb)
Air: Starmetal (CArc), Pandemonic Silver (CWar)

Cyrion
2011-02-10, 12:13 PM
If you're looking for actual metals, for fire you've got a couple of potential options: the alkali metals (lithium, sodium, potassium, rubidium and cesium) are all highly reactive. In air they oxidize rapidly, and in contact with water they release hydrogen gas and heat- with potassium, rubidium and cesium this is enough heat to light the hydrogen on fire, creating quite spectacular (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m55kgyApYrY) results. All of these metals are highly malleable and not very hard. Sodium and potassium were known in the Medieval times, and wouldn't be a large stretch for a world with magic and alchemy.

Another option would be to go with radioactive metals. All of these generate some degree of heat as they decay, and many can cause severe burns as a result of the radiation. Uranium and plutonium are both viable natural options, though they weren't known as separate elements until relatively recently. You could certainly use radioactive metals without letting things progress to bomb status.

If you really want a real metal for air, hydrogen is probably your best bet. Technically, it is a metal; if you get it cold enough to solidify it displays all of the properties normally associated with metals...

Draconi Redfir
2011-02-10, 12:19 PM
I would go for radioactive metals like uranium for fire. You might be out of luck for air however. Gasses don’t usually turn into solids, least not without combining with a different element to my knowledge.

Xuc Xac
2011-02-11, 02:21 AM
In Chinese Elementalism, Wood and Metal are Elements in their own right. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wu_Xing) Air however isn't.



Huh, that was actually what I was using. Forgot there is no air. Not sure if I'll put it in or not. What did they think was wind?


You're using Wood and Metal as substances. In the Wu Xing system, the elements are not substances: they are processes. Calm, fresh air (like in an open, well-ventilated room, but with no breeze) is Earth. Wind is Wood. Compressing air (like filling an LP tank) is Metal. Releasing compressed air (such as opening an LP tank or popping a balloon) is Fire. Stagnant, stale air (like in a closed room) is Water. This is why these five elements are used in so many different disciplines from architecture to martial arts to medicine. They aren't about substances, but the way substances interact with each other.

For example, in martial arts, your body can use these different processes without changing substance. "Water nourishes Wood, Wood feeds Fire, Fire creates Earth (ash), Earth bears Metal, Metal carries Water." = "Resting restores your energy, energy lets you strike, striking will make you bounce back from the target (as Newton explains), when you bounce back you need to return to a stable rest position, resting restores your energy". It's not really that mystical when you really dig into it. It's basically Newton's Laws explained through poetry instead of mathematics.

cupkeyk
2011-02-11, 02:45 AM
Water nourishes Wood, Wood feeds Fire, Fire creates Earth (ash), Earth bears Metal, Metal carries Water.

That's the cycle of creation. But in the one I know Metal actually creates water as "proven" by the fact that water can be found on the surface of metal objects if left overnight (precipitate) and water from springs are from vast amounts of ore creating water.

There is also cycle of destruction. Metal (tools) destroys wood, Wood (roots) destroys Earth, Earth absorbs water, water quenches fire, Fire melts metal.

My grandmother was Chinese so I only remember this stuff from stories.