PDA

View Full Version : [3.5] Build Challenge



arguskos
2011-02-09, 11:58 PM
I bring you a challenge, mechanical wizards of the Playground. Build me the dude in the following image:
http://i170.photobucket.com/albums/u250/bloodydoves/Battlemage_by_ZsoltKosa.jpg


He needs to have a sword made out of fire and be able to throw fire, and do both consistently throughout the day. Ideally, sans armor, and being able to create more fire if needed. The target level is 8-10, and there can be no use of Tome of Battle (this is non-negotiable, sorry).

Are you up to the challenge?

RTGoodman
2011-02-10, 12:00 AM
Question - does it have to be exactly by RAW? Or can we refluff stuff? Because the Pyromancer Pyrokineticist from XPH with the fire lash refluffed into a fire sword might be a good start.

arguskos
2011-02-10, 12:02 AM
Question - does it have to be exactly by RAW? Or can we refluff stuff? Because the Pyromancer Pyrokineticist from XPH with the fire lash refluffed into a fire sword might be a good start.
I prefer RAW for me to rework from, but if you have a great idea that needs a little fluff, then that's awesome too. Go for it.

Ason
2011-02-10, 12:04 AM
Question - does it have to be exactly by RAW? Or can we refluff stuff? Because the Pyromancer Pyrokineticist from XPH with the fire lash refluffed into a fire sword might be a good start.

A link to Pyrokineticist for everyone's convenience: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/prestigeClasses/pyrokineticist.htm

And a prestige class later released by WotC that may also do the job:
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20030328b

Xefas
2011-02-10, 12:06 AM
Commoner 8 with Item of Continuous Flame Blade (24,000gp) and Item of Continuous Produce Flame (4,000gp).

No Armor, No Tome of Battle

(Although, I suggest using feats to up your armor class somewhat. What are you thinking, playing a Commoner with no armor? :smallconfused:)

RTGoodman
2011-02-10, 12:10 AM
Alright, here are two options. (I haven't really touched any 3.x books in about a year and a half, and don't have all of them with me, so bear with me.)

#1 Warlock going into Hellfire Warlock (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20061207a&page=3), taking at minimum hideous blow and whatever fiery invocations you want.

#2 Anything that can meet the qualifications going into Pyrokineticist (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/newreply.php?do=newreply&noquote=1&p=10343956). They gain fire lash (refluff into fire sword?) and at-will ranged touch fire bolt.

arguskos
2011-02-10, 12:12 AM
Commoner 8 with Item of Continuous Flame Blade (24,000gp) and Item of Continuous Produce Flame (4,000gp).

No Armor, No Tome of Battle

(Although, I suggest using feats to up your armor class somewhat. What are you thinking, playing a Commoner with no armor? :smallconfused:)
...is this a serious suggestion? Or are you being silly? I can't tell on the internet.

If serious, I'll just go ahead and say "thank you, but not quite what I was looking for". Since I guess I should qualify this, I'm also shooting for a Tier 3 level of power.

If silly, well, I lol'd. :smallcool:

@rtg: Hmm, I'd never even considered Hellfire Warlock. Great suggestion, thanks! I like that one. What else can do it?

Tvtyrant
2011-02-10, 12:13 AM
Druid with Flame Blade and Produce Flame. They each use up one hand and look almost exactly like the depiction. You could even go Monk2/Druid 3 and get AC from wisdom and evasion to make him more durable. At level 10 you could maximize them to get 10 attacks with produce flame per casting with a damage of 11 (not much but you get lots of them) and a sword that does 13 damage. Hmmm, those are really weak, but I am not really in a position to spend lots of time on it. :(

dextercorvia
2011-02-10, 12:16 AM
Illumian Archivist7/SacredExorcist1 (Dispel Evil is a 4th level Paladin spell) with the Naenhoon word, can Persist Produce Flame, and Flameblade. Since Naenhoon isn't a Divine Feat you can still Divine Spellpower+Bead of Karma to help against dispel and up the damage. You can add the standard DMM Persist Schtick so that you can get Divine Power, whatever else too.

Xefas
2011-02-10, 12:19 AM
...is this a serious suggestion? Or are you being silly? I can't tell on the internet.

If serious, I'll just go ahead and say "thank you, but not quite what I was looking for". Since I guess I should qualify this, I'm also shooting for a Tier 3 level of power.

If silly, well, I lol'd. :smallcool:

Ummm, about 50/50?

On the one hand, you'll look like a total badass bringing a Commoner to the table, sporting only Boots of Produce Flame and a Codpiece of Flame Blade.

"A Druid? A Warlock? An Initiate of the Sevenfold Veils? How droll," you'll say while surveying your prospective party members and enthusiastically adjusting your groin adornments, "-no, no, my friends. All I require are my boots and my codpiece. Pray to your gods, fumble with your silly magic. I'll be the one with the fire."

Both in and out of character, of course.

RTGoodman
2011-02-10, 12:21 AM
@rtg: Hmm, I'd never even considered Hellfire Warlock. Great suggestion, thanks! I like that one. What else can do it?


Actually, here's what you want - eldritch glaive from Dragon Magic is (IIRC) a much better version of hideous blow, letting you do your eldritch blast as a melee full attack thing.

Basically, you could just go straight Warlock 9/Hellfire Warlock. Use any ranged or melee eldritch blast with brimstone blast and you're set. Hellfire Warlock gives you a super-powered fiery blast that makes you take Con damage but ups the damage and makes it harder to resist. It also gives you fire resistance, some free metamagic with charged items, and stuff.

Lord.Sorasen
2011-02-10, 12:25 AM
Pyrokineticist for sure. If you're absolutely against fire lash, you can reflavor it as a sword... But the lash is better as a lash because reach. Still... Weapon afire is more than enough to power a sword with fire forever. They can create fire infinitely forever.

Now, race wise you want to use a psionic race. Why? You need a power point reserve to get into pyrokineticist, and you'll not want to waste it by going needlessly into a psionic class. Xeph will provide more speed and that's nice. If you want more power points for fire walk, Kalashtar gets far more in terms of power points than most other classes.

Base class? That image makes it hard to see his battle style. Sans armor limits the choices... But not by much. Given he's fighting undead and is ultra flashy, I'm going to say rogue is out. Barbarians can't cast spells while raging and I imagine that extends to fire shooting so that's out. Ranger just feels like a bad fit.

If you're going primary melee... I hate to do this because I don't know ToB, but Swordsage is something people always talk about being awesome and if I'm right it works in light armor. If ToB is banned, consider, um... Swashbuckler? Fighter? (can you pair the ranger's archery chain with ranged touch attacks? If so why not the ranged style barbarian.) Or if you're really certain about not having armor... Fighter 1/Monk 4, with that one feat which lets you flurry with longsword? I can't recommend that one less.

dextercorvia
2011-02-10, 12:26 AM
If you go Hellfire, you will of course want a Binder dip to heal the Con damage.

Lord.Sorasen
2011-02-10, 12:26 AM
Pyrokineticist for sure. If you're absolutely against fire lash, you can reflavor it as a sword... But the lash is better as a lash because reach. Still... Weapon afire is more than enough to power a sword with fire forever. They can create fire infinitely forever.

Now, race wise you want to use a psionic race. Why? You need a power point reserve to get into pyrokineticist, and you'll not want to waste it by going needlessly into a psionic class. Xeph will provide more speed and that's nice. If you want more power points for fire walk, Kalashtar gets far more in terms of power points than most other classes.

Base class? That image makes it hard to see his battle style. Sans armor limits the choices... But not by much. Given he's fighting undead and is ultra flashy, I'm going to say rogue is out. Barbarians can't cast spells while raging and I imagine that extends to fire shooting so that's out. Ranger just feels like a bad fit.

If you're going primary melee... If ToB is banned, consider, um... Swashbuckler? Fighter? (can you pair the ranger's archery chain with ranged touch attacks? If so why not the ranged style barbarian.) Or if you're really certain about not having armor... Fighter 1/Monk 4, with that one feat which lets you flurry with longsword? I can't recommend that one less.

Edit: I have heard melee bard is somehow a really awesome choice. Snowflake Wardance sounds really... not your concept, but mechanically it might be somewhat desirable (darting around throwing a fire sword around, etc etc.) Arcane Strike is also good, though you can't take it at the level you intend to be really. Eh.

arguskos
2011-02-10, 12:29 AM
Druid with Flame Blade and Produce Flame. They each use up one hand and look almost exactly like the depiction. You could even go Monk2/Druid 3 and get AC from wisdom and evasion to make him more durable. At level 10 you could maximize them to get 10 attacks with produce flame per casting with a damage of 11 (not much but you get lots of them) and a sword that does 13 damage. Hmmm, those are really weak, but I am not really in a position to spend lots of time on it. :(
Yeah, that was the impetus for the thread. Produce Flame and Flame Blade kinda, well, suck. :smallsigh:


Ummm, about 50/50?

On the one hand, you'll look like a total badass bringing a Commoner to the table, sporting only Boots of Produce Flame and a Codpiece of Flame Blade.

"A Druid? A Warlock? An Initiate of the Sevenfold Veils? How droll," you'll say while surveying your prospective party members and enthusiastically adjusting your groin adornments, "-no, no, my friends. All I require are my boots and my codpiece. Pray to your gods, fumble with your silly magic. I'll be the one with the fire."

Both in and out of character, of course.
...that's pretty awesome. I'm not gonna lie. I can't believe I'm saying that a Commoner is a possibility.


Actually, here's what you want - eldritch glaive from Dragon Magic is (IIRC) a much better version of hideous blow, letting you do your eldritch blast as a melee full attack thing.

Basically, you could just go straight Warlock 9/Hellfire Warlock. Use any ranged or melee eldritch blast with brimstone blast and you're set. Hellfire Warlock gives you a super-powered fiery blast that makes you take Con damage but ups the damage and makes it harder to resist. It also gives you fire resistance, some free metamagic with charged items, and stuff.
Yeah, I know all of the material, I just had never considered any of that for this character. Good stuff.

So far, we've got a lot of good stuff here. Are there any other things I should be aware of for options? I was looking at Fiery Burst for the flames in his hand, but couldn't work out a sword analogue. Also, what about Incarnum? Is there anything there that could help here? I don't know the system well enough to say.

PRE-EDIT: It seems there was a big post about Pyrokineticist. Lash is better than the sword, but I really like that image. It's a possibility. Do Synads have a PP reserve? I always wanted to use them in a build, and this might be a good place to start.

RTGoodman
2011-02-10, 12:30 AM
Now, race wise you want to use a psionic race. Why? You need a power point reserve to get into pyrokineticist, and you'll not want to waste it by going needlessly into a psionic class.

Or take the Wild Talent feat, if you've got the spare feat.


PRE-EDIT: It seems there was a big post about Pyrokineticist. Lash is better than the sword, but I really like that image. It's a possibility. Do Synads have a PP reserve? I always wanted to use them in a build, and this might be a good place to start.

I'm pretty sure they do. I like Synads a lot, and that saves you the feat.

Xefas
2011-02-10, 12:40 AM
...that's pretty awesome. I'm not gonna lie. I can't believe I'm saying that a Commoner is a possibility.

Yeah, totally. Playing a Commoner can get you bonuses that aren't necessarily scribed into the rules. Social bonuses.

When a Warblade stands in a doorway and slaughters 30 oncoming Trolls, it's like "Yeah. Okay. Working as intended."

When a Wizard scrys on the enemy general, teleports into his tent, disintegrates him, and then teleports back in time for breakfast then "Sure, seems pretty good, I guess."

But when a Commoner walks up, unarmed and unarmored, to a Dragon, spits in his face, and says "One of us is going to die today. It will probably be me. But I'm just a Commoner. A farmer, or a baker, or a god damn janitor. I have no magic, no training, no god to help me. I don't even have a home to go back to. You're a dragon. You have wealth I'll never know. You have the power to decimate armies. You could live forever if you wanted to.

I die. I lose nothing. You die? Well, are you willing to risk that? If so, bring it the **** on. I don't have all day."

Well, you have a story.

Tvtyrant
2011-02-10, 12:40 AM
There is also the Blighter, which would get you a lot of fire spells early on, but it doesn't match the picture exactly.

dextercorvia
2011-02-10, 12:44 AM
Yeah, totally. Playing a Commoner can get you bonuses that aren't necessarily scribed into the rules. Social bonuses.

When a Warblade stands in a doorway and slaughters 30 oncoming Trolls, it's like "Yeah. Okay. Working as intended."

When a Wizard scrys on the enemy general, teleports into his tent, disintegrates him, and then teleports back in time for breakfast then "Sure, seems pretty good, I guess."

But when a Commoner walks up, unarmed and unarmored, to a Dragon, spits in his face, and says "One of us is going to die today. It will probably be me. But I'm just a Commoner. A farmer, or a baker, or a god damn janitor. I have no magic, no training, no god to help me. I don't even have a home to go back to. You're a dragon. You have wealth I'll never know. You have the power to decimate armies. You could live forever if you wanted to.

I die. I lose nothing. You die? Well, are you willing to risk that? If so, bring it the **** on. I don't have all day."

Well, you have a story.

Quoted for Awesome. I want to play a commoner now.

Jarian
2011-02-10, 12:51 AM
Kalashtar Ranger 5(ACF'ed out the rear end to be viable, obviously)/Pyrokineticist 5 seems the most ideal way to do it. Fluff the lash as the tip of your flame sword extending in a tongue of fire when you swing it, or downgrade it to an actual sword if you're dead set on that path.

You could also do it with a Duskblade instead of ranger, but the extremely gimped casting won't really compare to the bonus feat and such you can get from proper Ranger ACFs.

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2011-02-10, 01:00 AM
That's a 3rd level character: Illumian (Naenhoon) Druid or Spirit Shaman 3, one flaw, Extend Spell, Persistent Spell, and the Fiery Burst reserve feat (CM). One 150g purchase of Unguent of Timelessness (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm#unguentofTimelessness) can coat eight Bone Talisman (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/mb/20040721a) spell foci, so each casting lasts over 60 hours per caster level (over a week at level 3), and each foci can be reused indefinitely. Cast Bone Talisman ahead of time, use them to power a Naenhoon: Persistent Flame Blade, and a second Flame Blade spell available powers your Fiery Burst reserve feat. Produce Flame is ineligible for Persistent Spell because it gets discharged.

More specific to that picture, he's facing dozens of CR 1/2 Commoner Zombies. It's a good thing he has so many Bone Talismans pre-cast to use Turn Undead to keep them at bay while he uses Fiery Burst to gradually destroy them. The scene definitely looks epic, but it's just a low level character in a low level encounter.

Lord.Sorasen
2011-02-10, 01:01 AM
PRE-EDIT: It seems there was a big post about Pyrokineticist. Lash is better than the sword, but I really like that image. It's a possibility. Do Synads have a PP reserve? I always wanted to use them in a build, and this might be a good place to start.

The lash is the signature weapon of the pyrokineticist, but it's not the only one. At level 4 (placing you at level 9 total) you can put fire into any weapon you can hold, giving it 2d6 additional damage. The lash is good because it's 15 ft of reach and also lets you use touch attacks, but an already magical sword enhanced with the kineticist's fire could be just as cool. You could even take two weapon fighting and wield the lash in your off hand and a short sword (or perhaps sunsword, as it's a bastard sword with shortsword qualities) in your main hand (discarding the lash as a free action in order to shoot fire bolts, of course).

Pyrokineticist isn't the strongest of classes, but at level 11 you can literally run through the air on a trail of fire throwing bolts of fire holding a sword of fire while on fire.

Plus being on fire brings up your charisma by four, so you can better make diplomacy checks by setting yourself on fire.

RTGoodman
2011-02-10, 01:05 AM
[Awesome story.]

I played a character like that once. I wasn't actually a Commoner, though. I was a Factotum who was, by fluff, just some farmer who got through things by his wit alone.

paddyfool
2011-02-10, 02:06 AM
Pyrokineticist sounds like just what the doctor ordered, imho. Paladin of Freedom/Slaughter could make an interesting entry, and would enjoy the Cha bonus from Nimbus. Perhaps Pally of Slaughter 2/Psychic Warrior 3, with a couple of fun powers of your choice.

Alternatively (and it's a little beardy), Mystic Ranger 5, with the wild talent feat or a psionic race and some cross-class skills, so you can play around with Produce Flame etc. before starting the class.

arguskos
2011-02-11, 12:52 AM
Ok, thanks guys! I really appreciate the assistance here! I think Pyrokineticist sounds to be the most fitting thing I can roll with. Not sure on my entry yet, but that's something easy enough to fiddle with.

Thanks again! :smallbiggrin: