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GenericGuy
2011-02-10, 12:28 AM
Inspired by all the “I Hate Elves” statements that regularly show up when they are mentioned in conversation, and the Thread title stolen from T.V. Tropes. It’s obvious that Elves aren’t a lot of PCs or DMs favorite race, so given that this is a game where anything you want can potentially happen, I’m asking what horrible things have you done or have had the players do to make the pointy eared people suffer? Whether in the background before the PCs took over the story or when confronted by an Elven faction, what happened to make the once proud and mighty fall so low.

If you like elves post what you or players did to a particular group that you or they despised instead.

My Example: We literally killed the entire Elven Pantheon making them a godless people who now have no afterlife when they die.

LansXero
2011-02-10, 01:51 AM
Eberronian elves were slaves at some point in the background. They got better though. And are at least not-so tolkenesque, which makes them more bearable imho.

Scarlet-Devil
2011-02-10, 02:00 AM
Meh, the hate in this case is born of envy. Personally I love elves, at least of the Tolkienesque variety.

Weirdly enough, I don't think I've ever actually had any conflict with elves in a campaign (except for Drow, who've imprisoned and tortured my party members at various times).

Zaydos
2011-02-10, 02:07 AM
I love elves too (although I hate their 3.X stats), but let's see:

One homebrewed world had the elves fighting a war against dragons for dominance of the world until they almost destroyed it before being stripped of the vast majority of their powers, and having the potential to reach 21st level sealed in the majority of races. Even dragons, once immortals who could reach any age category, were limited trapped within 12 age categories and cursed with the twilight.

Another homebrewed world had the elves rule the world (rather by force) until seeking still greater power they severed themselves from their own fount of life and became half-living and half-undead and a mere shadow of their old selves.

Another had a group of elves whose queen decided to imprison the head demon lord. He beat her down, made her his slave for a millennium before sending her back in disgrace, and reversed her people's link with nature and life turning them into half-undead half-living abominations.

Currently I'm planning a world where elves are LA 5 or 6, have a list of spell-like abilities, SR, DR, +30 net bonus to ability scores, and are possibly the main villains of the campaign unless slivers or phyrexians invade and take the position from them. They are currently warmongering immortals driven by their ever increasing population to claim more and more territory and in so doing are clashing with all the other sentient races and enslaving or killing them off.

Edit: Oh yeah in another setting a group of humans with orc and giantish blood kidnapped an elven noblewoman. This lead to a massive war, the elves tapping into black magic, the elves almost winning before said black magic tore space time, the elves beating off aberrations they accidentally summoned, the elves losing said war because they used all their spell slots, and the elvish population reduced to a mere fraction of what it was. Because there were so few elves the magic that protected their forest went haywire and turned into a breeding ground for darkness, and when the PCs got there they were preparing for another war with the same country as before.

Coidzor
2011-02-10, 02:09 AM
Someone was mentioning in the Dwarves Vs. Elves thread over in the Friendly Banter sub-forum that they had the elves accidentally(?) turn most of themselves into undead out of arrogance. Zaydos, it might've been...

The worst I've done to them is had them reduced to city elves or wild elves, with the wood elves as a race and the high elves as a separate civilization absorbed or destroyed in expansionist conflicts with humans, leaving Wild, City/High, and Grey Elves as the only races of Elf still native to the plane, and Grey Elves being more of the inbred nobility than a distinct ethnicity. Mostly as a natural result of them purposefully having a medieval stasis and not enforcing it upon humans as well, or at least, failing to do so. So except in lands that are still "barbarous" and tribal rather than having nation-states, elves mostly live as part of the educated middle class in urban centers, with the world resembling an anachronistic amalgam of the 15th-19th centuries.

Almost like Eberron in Renaissance Europe. Or Arcanum's set up of what human-majority civilization is like without the gnomish illuminati.


Meh, the hate in this case is born of envy. Personally I love elves, at least of the Tolkienesque variety.

No, it's mostly born of a dislike of how certain fans of elves act in regards to elves and possibly other fantasy races. A reaction to the excesses of some that has since taken on a life of its own.

kieza
2011-02-10, 02:14 AM
High elves revere (worship, almost) their immortal cousins, the Sidhe, who are in reality high elves who live in the Feywild and know how to derive true immortality from its energies. They, in turn, use the high elves as expendable shock troops in an eternal chess game, while rewarding the useful ones with power and extended lifespans to encourage the rest.

Wood elves are ruled by narcissistic nobles who make every effort to isolate their subjects from outside influence that might make them question why they work to support nobles who spend most of their time hunting, feasting, and generally debauching. As such, the only contact most of them have with outsiders is when killing them for straying too close. The queen of the wood elves, who has almost no actual power, was recently forced (literally at gunpoint) to sign a treaty opening elven lands to trade, which is more or less ignored by the hardline isolationists.

Dark elves are individuals so depraved or despairing that they willingly let a dark goddess ride shotgun in their minds. Every one of them is nuts, but they have a fragment of an actual deity whispering in their ears and signing their checks. Ironically, they're also the race which, after the ancient elves lost a war with mortal races, wanted to patch up relations with them rather than isolate themselves. They got hunted down by their kin for that, which is why the first turned to a dark goddess. The thing is, they still get hunted down, because the older and more powerful they get, the older and more powerful their fragment of the goddess gets...and there have been close calls when a particularly ancient fragment started to take physical form.

starwoof
2011-02-10, 02:48 AM
In my setting it really sucks to be an elf and live in the elf homeland. Actually, it sucks to be anyone and live there, but the elves pretty much have a monopoly on that. A thousand years ago their god was summoned from The Underworld to be entrapped by eight material plane wizard lords, who planned to siphon his power into themselves. It didn't go quite right, and the wizards were obliterated (along with every other human in their nation, which was then cursed by the goddess of death).

The elven god was split in half and trapped on the material plane. His two bodies have both become one with the elves' forest, so the forest can't be destroyed without both of the god's halves either destroyed or returned to The Underworld. This means no roads, no cities, nothing can be built in this forest unless it is built in harmony with the forest.

The bad part is that there's one half of a god rampaging around in a chaotic and evil fashion, destroying everything he can while the significantly less powerful good half tries to stop him. This forest is also a hub of really unstable magical energy, so random portals to The Underworld show up pretty often, and that's almost never a good thing.

So my elves get to fight an evil plant deity, hordes of demons, and a forest that is actively malevolent to them more often than it isn't. Pretty much the entire world is a terrible place to live though, the elves just have some very concentrated suck.

Yora
2011-02-10, 06:40 AM
All I did to my elves is not making them as awsome as they think they are. They still believe that they are the greatest thing to walk the earth since the titans and their society is the most advanced. But they are really just the oldest race around and currently have the bigest cities but given the same resources, they are really no better than all the other races. Their infighting is probably even worse.

true_shinken
2011-02-10, 08:22 AM
Brazil's most popular fantasy setting has elves as slaves to minotaurs.

dsmiles
2011-02-10, 08:28 AM
You know all the creation legends about how the Elves and Drow fought, and the Drow were driven underground?

My Elves lost. :smallcool:

The_Werebear
2011-02-10, 08:42 AM
I blew them all up.

Elves, in the setting, were foreign invaders from across the ocean. They landed, shot the party sent to greet them full of arrows, and conquered the first kingdom in their way before the messengers for help got all the way across the continent (And this was a pretty hefty kingdom too). What they didn't kill, they enslaved and warped into either servants or expendable, mindwashed shock troops (halflings and ogres, respectively). Humanity fought a desperate delaying action to try and rally forces to push them away, and gradually (With PC help) began to force the Elven expeditionary force back.

When the Elves quit winning, they developed a new plan. Magically destroy the human homelands and their own expeditionary force to prevent a counterattack from across the ocean. The party caught wind of this from Halfling spies (ah, Arrogance of superiority) and teleported there to sabotage the attempt. They randomized several key passages of the spell related to targeting. When the elves cast it, they attacked and forced the Archmage performing the spell to cast it hurriedly, missing the errors.

When the spell went off, time in the elven homelands was randomized. About one quarter the population was frozen in time, unable to move or act. One quarter was presumably sent back in time, as they disappeared. And one full half was instantly aged long enough to collapse into dust, along with most other organic matter.

So, what few elves remain are bitter, twisted survivors who live on human mercy now, far from the conquerors they arrived as. Occasionally, several will come out of stasis in the homelands to discover a land knee deep in organic matter dust, home to partially crumbled, partially preserved cities. And lots of angry human soldiers in Garrisons there, waiting for them.

panaikhan
2011-02-10, 08:52 AM
In one campaign I did, I re-arranged the races a little.

Halflings were re-named Hobbits (for reasons that will become apparent)
Half-elves became the default race, called Humanitas
Humans were downgraded to barbarian tribes, known as 'wild folk'
PHB Elves were derided as 'Half-lings', the last remnants of a lost race who once commanded immense magic.

The Old Elves were responsible for making all magical items, an ability beyond any race still living. They were also responsible for the cataclysm that almost destroyed the world - something that the survivors never forgave. To play a 'Half-ling' was to invite derision, abuse and worse from most communities.

true_shinken
2011-02-10, 09:07 AM
Halflings were re-named Hobbits (for reasons that will become apparent)

That's not much of a renaming, they call them halflings in Lord of the Rings as well, though it's just a nickname.

Seth62
2011-02-10, 09:31 AM
I play a drow in my campaign and I party kill all are elves, another fun thing open permanent portals out of the demon web pits into there elven homes! lolth will spread and consume all the elven communities! Lolth and Orc pantheon team up and slaughter the elves, then u enslave and kill the orc's!

Saph
2011-02-10, 09:44 AM
Inspired by all the “I Hate Elves” statements that regularly show up when they are mentioned in conversation, and the Thread title stolen from T.V. Tropes. It’s obvious that Elves aren’t a lot of PCs or DMs favorite race, so given that this is a game where anything you want can potentially happen, I’m asking what horrible things have you done or have had the players do to make the pointy eared people suffer? Whether in the background before the PCs took over the story or when confronted by an Elven faction, what happened to make the once proud and mighty fall so low.

If you like elves post what you or players did to a particular group that you or they despised instead.

We've done neither. Our group tends not to consider genocide all that much fun. Strange that. :smallwink:

Greenish
2011-02-10, 09:47 AM
Meh, the hate in this case is born of envy.Or maybe from their overbearing arrogance. :smalltongue:

Janus
2011-02-10, 09:59 AM
I like Elves, personally, particularly the High, Wood, and Half variety (please note that my group plays in a homebrewed EverQuest setting).

What do we do with races we don't like, such as Drow and Tieflings? Make them villains. That's really all there is to it.
Heck, to be honest, we really don't have much of a problem with those two races, just the idea of them as the protagonists.

With races that I out and out don't like, I simply don't include them (get out of my D&D, Dragonborn and Warforged!!!).

Mastikator
2011-02-10, 10:13 AM
I like the Elves in Dragon Age (actually, I like a lot of the fluff in Dragon age). They are either poor and live in city ghettos, or they are independent forest hippy anarchists fighting da power (and werewolves)!

Reynard
2011-02-10, 10:14 AM
I like my Elves DF inspired.

Warmongering, with excessive farming/woodcutting restrictions being placed via treaties on the other races. They eat their slain foe, and generally show no respect to the dead. At the same time, they won't kill any animal except in absolute self defense. And since animals don't attack them, this rarely happens.

It doesn't stop them eating the remains of any beast they came across, and raw at that.

And with a primitive Druidic society, no metal tools, weapons or armour.

Dimers
2011-02-10, 10:34 AM
Not an elf-hater, but the race has some trouble in the world I'm creating now. They're agile, perceptive, beautiful, innately magical, but not really wise. They consider almost every living being beneath them, including all but the top ranks in the spirit world. "Beneath them" meaning "it's okay to slaughter these things, they're not really people the way we are." Sadly for them, their numbers and their view of technology (anything on the level of a crossbow is "unnatural") have kept them from fielding an army capable of wiping out the lesser creatures like humans and dwarves. And yet their arrogance has continued unabated, winning them no friends. So now the lesser creatures have nations, and the elves live in the barely-habitable badlands.

Moral of the story: no matter how good your other stats are, don't dump Wisdom.

Vknight
2011-02-10, 10:48 AM
I like Elves.
I a campaign my Elf hates things that are evil and will kill them. This has lead to her blowing up a Kobold prisoner she had crucified for information. The parties Fighter hated this because he promised to release it.

In a different campaign elves were a small group that are part of a much larger country but they were unwilling to pay taxes so the king came to that area and killed the current leader. He was replaced with his grandson, who died in the campaign and was replaced by his son one of the players. He didn't want to pay taxs, saying the elves are there own kingdom. At this point the King is in his 90's (He's Human) so his response. He killed them all, no one cared because they were the last of the elves; and elves are that holier then though kind.

I personally dislike Kobolds, Trolls, and Githzerai

true_shinken
2011-02-10, 01:57 PM
I like Elves.
I a campaign my Elf hates things that are evil and will kill them. This has lead to her blowing up a Kobold prisoner she had crucified for information.
Oh, my. Torture and murder. That's not evil at all.

Yora
2011-02-10, 02:46 PM
Why do we only get threads about torturing elves and cooking gnomes?

What about the hate for chaotic stupid halflings and comic relief dwarves?

Greenish
2011-02-10, 02:48 PM
The parties Fighter hated this because he promised to release it."Him" or "her", you speciesist pig, not "it".

:smalltongue:

Telasi
2011-02-10, 02:54 PM
Personally, I'm quite fond of most of the races in core D&D, excluding only gnomes.

On topic, though, I rather dislike the woodsy hippy stereotype that goes along with elves (it can be done well, but rarely is), so I ran a different way. The elves in the campaign I currently run are psionic and struggling to deal with raids from the nomadic dwarves of the desert, who have followed a druidic mystical tradition since they were driven from the mountains millenia ago.

Vknight
2011-02-10, 03:10 PM
Oh, my. Torture and murder. That's not evil at all.

She is still good aligned. It also helps the Shaman and Fighter said get the information how ever you can.
So that lead to her preforming the torture. She doesn't believe it's evil having lose moral guidelines

Malfunctioned
2011-02-10, 03:24 PM
I don't really like the standard depiction of elves, of course I tend to like to fiddle with most of the standard character types in my own homebrew world, switching the basic traits from one race to another.


For instance each race is allied with an element and as such is drawn towards it.

Elves have earth. They love cities and basically act as if on a sugar rush constantly. I removed their weapon proficiencies and gave them a climb speed and a bonus to their base speed as well as some skill bonuses (mostly climb and jump). They are also the shortest lived race, averaging at about 50. They also eat only meat as they evolved from small pack-dwelling hunters.


The other races in case anyone was interested....
The other changes I made were Fire Orcs. The fire part come with passion. They were also very peaceful farmers descended from large herbivores not unlike rhinos. Unfortnately they have a racial hatred of elves due to their predator ancestors getting hungry once too many times. This drives them into storming cities every so once in a while.

Water Dwarves. Peaceful hippies living in hollowed out cliffs. They drink ale made using seawater. It's very salty and bitter.

Air Gnomes. Imagine an entire race of WW2 British fighter pilots. They have flying fortresses built around captured and tamed giant air-whales. The gnome paladins are feared for their aerial expertise on their giant eagle mounts equipped with harnesses containing Wands of Magic Missle and Staffs of Fireball and Lightning Bolt.

Telasi
2011-02-10, 03:29 PM
She is still good aligned. It also helps the Shaman and Fighter said get the information how ever you can.
So that lead to her preforming the torture. She doesn't believe it's evil having lose moral guidelines

You'd better make sure your DM agrees. That's a slippery slope, and if your DM isn't on board, you could find yourself holding a neutral or evil alignment pretty quickly.

Admiral Squish
2011-02-10, 03:53 PM
Well, since I'm going to post it up in homebrew in a couple days anyways, I could offer a sneak peek of the elves from my new campaign setting.

Basically, the world was perfectly mundane, with no magic and the only race running around was human. Then the Shapers showed up and started gene-tweaking everything until we get to a more typical D&D world. Elves were among the first creations of the shapers, but about 500 years ago the shapers created the shifters and decided they didn't need the elves anymore. Most of the elves were destroyed, but some escaped and bred in the wild, becoming rabid anti-shaper zealots.

Elves
http://fc04.deviantart.net/images/large/indyart/fantasy/Savage_Link.jpg

Elves are a race of warriors and hunters. Abandoned by the shapers, they have gone feral, seeking to destroy all things created by the corruptive magic of the shapers. Elves are well known for their skill with bow, axe and kukri, and are known to favor ambushes and guerilla tactics.

Personality: Few people apart from other elves generally get to know elves on a personal level, as elves are generally more interested in eliminating another abominable creation of the shapers than listening to them. Those that do get to know them tend find them a bit harsh and abrasive. An elf’s life is a constant crusade, and such dedication requires a practical, no-nonsense approach. Their long lifespan grants them a wealth of experience, making them somewhat aloof and oftentimes they seem emotionless.

Physical Description: Elves are short and slim, standing about 4-1/2 to 5-1/2 feet tall and typically weighing 95 to 135 pounds, with elf men the same height as and only marginally heavier than elf women. They are graceful but frail. They tend to be pale-skinned and dark-haired, with deep green eyes. Elves have no facial or body hair. They generally shun the trappings of civilization, dressing themselves extremely lightly in animal skins and covering their bodies in tribal tattoos that can be read to account for their deeds. The more tattoos an elf possesses, the greater his deeds. Elves possess unearthly grace and fine features. Many humans and members of other races find them to be a dangerous sort of beautiful, like a jungle cat or a forest fire. An elf reaches adulthood at about 110 years of age and can live to be more than 700 years old.
Elves do not sleep, as members of the other common races do. Instead, an elf meditates in a deep trance for 4 hours a day. An elf resting in this fashion gains the same benefit that a human does from 8 hours of sleep. While meditating, an elf dreams, though these dreams are actually mental exercises that have become reflexive through years of practice. The Common word for an elf’s meditation is “trance,” as in “four hours of trance.”

Relations: Elves will trade only with humans, preferring to kill the other races on sight. Humans, being relatively untouched by the shaper magic, are the only ones not corrupted. Often, the elves will trade the hides of exotic beasts, fruits, and herbs in exchange for weapons. Humans are tolerable to trade with, but the elves rarely mingle for any length of time. Occasionally, elves can tolerate races other than humans for limited periods if they are working together to slay some even worse abomination.

Alignment: Elves are generally Lawful, but show no real preference for good or evil. Their society creates as many guardians of natural order as it does genocidal warriors.

Elven Lands: Elves create only semi-permanent settlements in the eastern forests, often moving them to avoid being tracked down. These settlements blend into the forest so well, it’s often difficult to realize you’ve found one until you step into the village square. Their hunters and druids are able to provide enough food that they don’t need to set up stationary farms. Elves found outside of the forests are almost always hunting something or part of a raiding party

Language: Elves speak and write elven. The spoken language is flowing and beautiful, with many subtle intonations that can often carry a great deal of information on a single word. Elven shorthand is an easy-to-read alphabet, used to send short messages. More permanent, formal texts use longhand, which is a pictographic script that carries all the subtleties of the spoken tongue. Most texts in elven longhand are from before the shapers created the shifters.

Names: Elven names usually consist of a first name and a family name. When a child comes of age, he is usually given a task to complete. When the task is complete, the elf earns a name that usually has some significance in regards to this task.

Adventurers: Elven adventurers are usually hunters sent out from the forest to on a quest to slay some creation of the shapers or destroy a shaper artifact of some sort. Elves most commonly become rangers, scouts, or druids.

ELF RACIAL TRAITS

+2 str, +2 dex, -2 int, -2 cha. Elves are wiry and quick, but they lack education and their personalities are harsh and abrasive.
Medium: As Medium creatures, elves have no special bonuses or penalties due to their size.
Elven base land speed is 30 feet
Immunity to magic sleep effects, and a +2 racial saving throw bonus against enchantment spells or effects.
Low-light Vision: An elf can see twice as far as a human in starlight, moonlight, torchlight, and similar conditions of poor illumination. She retains the ability to distinguish color and detail under these conditions.
Weapon Proficiency: Elves receive the Martial Weapon Proficiency feats for the Battle Axe, Hand Axe, Throwing Axe, Kukri, Longbow (including composite longbow), and Shortbow (including composite shortbow) as bonus feats. Elves are trained in archery from a young age and are well-versed in the use of axes and kukri.
+2 racial bonus on Balance, Climb, Jump, and Tumble checks. Elves spend a great deal of time among the trees, and as such learn how to maneuver through the canopy easily.
+1 racial bonus to attack rolls against shifters. Elves have a long-standing racial grudge against the shifters, and as such learn how to fight them.
Automatic Languages: Common and Elven. Bonus Languages: Draconic, Dwarven, Gnoll, Gnome, Goblin, and Orc. Elves commonly know the languages of their enemies, and their enemies are many.
Favored Class: Ranger. A multiclass elf’s ranger class does not count when determining whether she takes an experience point penalty for multicasting.

true_shinken
2011-02-10, 04:00 PM
She is still good aligned. It also helps the Shaman and Fighter said get the information how ever you can.
So that lead to her preforming the torture. She doesn't believe it's evil having lose moral guidelines

So she is not good aligned. Thanks for supporting my point.


You'd better make sure your DM agrees. That's a slippery slope, and if your DM isn't on board, you could find yourself holding a neutral or evil alignment pretty quickly.
This is a clear cut case of evil. The character is a racist torturer (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazism), for crying out loud.

Gnaeus
2011-02-10, 04:07 PM
I like the Birthright elf concept. In my worlds, the main difference between the "good" elves and the "evil" elves is that the good elf rangers take Orc as their first favored enemy before Human, and with the evil elves it is the other way around. The good elves tend to listen to the human refugees explanation as to why they had to flee into elven woods before they execute them all, the evil elves don't bother listening to the explanations.

Telasi
2011-02-10, 04:21 PM
So she is not good aligned. Thanks for supporting my point.


This is a clear cut case of evil. The character is a racist torturer (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazism), for crying out loud.

Not the thread for this argument. I don't disagree with you, and I was pointing out that his DM also might not agree that it fits under "good".

FMArthur
2011-02-10, 06:39 PM
Precisely because I dislike them, Elves have not undergone any extreme hardship for them to lament in my worlds. Elves are just a somewhat marginalized, ornery old culture that believes other races are 'lesser' because their mystic ways aren't taken seriously (or paid any attention) anymore, now that the secrets of magic are available to all.

Yukitsu
2011-02-10, 06:41 PM
I love DMs that do that, as I generally just play some elf guy running around personally trying to bring back as much elvishness as possible into the world as a divine God given cause. :smallcool: It's also a lot more fun playing the "last best chance" for the race as their heralded hero of prophesy, trying to bring them back to their former glory as opposed to "generic hero human dude #50913071530298571093485" who's either some random **** who wants to die rich, or some guy given the general task of "save world from vague threat."

Vknight
2011-02-10, 07:37 PM
This is a clear cut case of evil. The character is a racist torturer (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazism), for crying out loud.

You say potato I say mass genocide of the Kobolds. Which is her plan she will next session rally the remaining Elves to hunt all Kobolds to extinction.

Also really I feel insulted by that link... she doesn't enjoy it.

As for the 'good' thing Telasi it was for good after all they worshiped Tiamat. Ah that reminds me of the Fighter wearing fake cultist garb and convincing the Kobolds that he was there leader and to attack the priest, I shot them with 'Elemental Spirits'. He would not stop complaining about that.
"I could have turned them good!"
"They worship an evil 5headed dragon monstrosity, killed who knows how many innocents and only followed you because you looked like you were there leader."
I believe she was justified in merclessly slaughtering them.

Dienekes
2011-02-10, 08:44 PM
I've never done anything horrendously bad to elves, now I don't like the concept much, but making them slaves or martyrs just seems rather lame.

However, I have made them the villains of a campaign. My premise was essentially: Ok, elves are the old waning society. How would they react to the more successful humans?

My elves response was to fight back. From their perspective, entirely reasonable and even necessary means of maintaining their culture. To the humans they attacked seemingly unprovoked it looked very different.

Vknight
2011-02-10, 11:15 PM
This campaign delights in doing horrible things to are pointy eared friends.

Spoony's Campaign (http://www.lordkat.com/dungeons-dragons?page=3)

Anything titled Spoony's Campaign or Epic Sessions is a part of this campaign. On other notes be warned of mild swearing, jokes that are far to soon, stereotype jokes, and Elven Hitler, among other things

Wardog
2011-02-12, 08:10 PM
I like my Elves DF inspired.


What, you mean drowned, sliced, diced, and dumped in magma (not necessarily in that order)?

Fox Box Socks
2011-02-12, 08:16 PM
Brazil's most popular fantasy setting has elves as slaves to minotaurs.
You've sold me.

PersonMan
2011-02-12, 08:24 PM
In a campaign setting I've made, elves are doing rather well at the moment-but fairly soon they'll be utterly demolished in a large-scale war, due to their reliance on the strategies, technologies and leaders that led them to victory over the past few centuries.

It's mainly a problem that's come from their age-rather than having 2 generations(or more) of people trying to replicate Leader McHero, you have Leader McHero still alive and well for centuries. So when the war starts, they'll be using the same strategies that let them gain a position of enormous power-and get curbstomped.

In another setting, they're the current favorites of incredibly powerful fey, made as border guards/go-betweens to communicate with the humans, orcs, etc. and have an intense rivalry with the dwarves who were the favorites before them.

Fox Box Socks
2011-02-12, 08:36 PM
In a campaign setting I've made, elves are doing rather well at the moment-but fairly soon they'll be utterly demolished in a large-scale war, due to their reliance on the strategies, technologies and leaders that led them to victory over the past few centuries.

It's mainly a problem that's come from their age-rather than having 2 generations(or more) of people trying to replicate Leader McHero, you have Leader McHero still alive and well for centuries. So when the war starts, they'll be using the same strategies that let them gain a position of enormous power-and get curbstomped.
I like this. It puts elves largely in the same boat as dwarves when it comes to relations with other races; their longevity and general haughtiness causes them to resist the generational change that comes with the shorter-lived races.

An elf trying to blend in to human society might use phrases that haven't been in the vernacular for decades or even centuries, and thus would appear to be antiquated and out of touch with reality.

Vknight
2011-02-12, 10:28 PM
Still like the pointy eared guys but if your going to be mean to them you cannot do any better then what I suggested earlier.

hamishspence
2011-02-13, 03:36 PM
Also really I feel insulted by that link... she doesn't enjoy it.

"enjoying it" isn't really necessary- acts defined as evil in some D&D books (BoED, FC2, etc) generally don't get a "it was for a good cause" or "character did not take pleasure in it" exemption.

Whether the character is evil is a question for another thread, but, by most D&D splatbooks that mention such acts, the acts are evil.

Using PHB on its own, a case could be made that the acts aren't evil- but otherwise, there's a lot of precedent for them being evil acts.

Vknight
2011-02-13, 03:53 PM
Oh yeah evil acts for a good cause. Glorious destruction of kobolds!!

Also recently a different campaign one of my players has gone about crucifing Kobold prisoners and leaving them to rot or tieing all there tails together and setting one of them on fire.:smallbiggrin:

He has the highest kill count and moral depravity count.

hamishspence
2011-02-13, 03:59 PM
Also recently a different campaign one of my players has gone about crucifing Kobold prisoners and leaving them to rot or tieing all there tails together and setting one of them on fire.:smallbiggrin:

He has the highest kill count and moral depravity count.

Seems like one of the commonest ways to build an evil character that can "get along" with a less evil party or society-

by having them confine their evil deeds purely to "generally despised victims".

Zaydos
2011-02-13, 04:02 PM
Seems like one of the commonest ways to build an evil character that can "get along" with a less evil party or society-

by having them confine their evil deeds purely to "generally despised victims".

That's what I'm hoping will go between the shadow dragon//dread necromancer and the predominantly good aligned party in a new campaign I started.

The "generally despised victims" are either elves (and by victims I mean they are currently on a campaign of conquest which does involve crucifying still living prisoners and carrying them into battle as war standards) or slivers. My elves aren't nice, and worship Tzeentch from Warhammer, Loki from Norse myth, and probably Yog-Sothoth from Lovecraft among other gods.

Vknight
2011-02-13, 04:04 PM
Yup:smallbiggrin:

He 'Expanded Scorching Burst' a general assembly hall of Kobolds that we were supposed to talk to.
Then used an 'Expanded Area Burst Daily' (Forgot which one. The party was at Lvl1)
After that the Ranger Twin Striked the 2he couldn't hit with the burst.
The Fighter, Cleric, and Monk were shocked but helped clean up the rest.

Weirdlet
2011-02-13, 04:45 PM
I haven't actually made this into a campaign, but a notion I'm playing with for my own world, loosely ripping off Dragon Age for the dynamic that both elves and dwarves have-

Nobody's seen a real 'mythical' elf in generations, and that's considered a good thing, because dark demigods riding the wind and hunting down random Iron-Age villagers while laughing madly and seducing girls to literally steal their hearts or souls, is generally considered bad for business.

The elves you meet face to face are exiles from Underhill, or their descendants- tossed out without memory or power or immortality. They're little more than pointy-eared mortals with a few extra tricks (PHB standard), and they've banded together and made a living mostly as entertainers, playing on the human fascination with their beauty. The words 'elven king' have roughly the same meaning and pull as 'gypsy king', and there's places where you can pay your bit and watch 'elven court', with feasting and acrobats, two times a day. Under the glitter, though, they're without a homeland, without much support, and vulnerable to the scapegoating and instability that a nomadic culture inside of a settled one is subject to.

Yukitsu
2011-02-13, 07:40 PM
That's what I'm hoping will go between the shadow dragon//dread necromancer and the predominantly good aligned party in a new campaign I started.

The "generally despised victims" are either elves (and by victims I mean they are currently on a campaign of conquest which does involve crucifying still living prisoners and carrying them into battle as war standards) or slivers. My elves aren't nice, and worship Tzeentch from Warhammer, Loki from Norse myth, and probably Yog-Sothoth from Lovecraft among other gods.

Tzeentch and not Slaanesh? Now you're just taking random things and calling them elves. :smallyuk:

Zaydos
2011-02-13, 08:07 PM
Tzeentch and not Slaanesh? Now you're just taking random things and calling them elves. :smallyuk:

Not that big into Warhammer, but the actual character who is a cleric of Tzeentch is also a wizard who is known as the Mad Duke for 2 reasons.

1) He actually treats the lesser races as if they were anywhere near the magnificence of the elves.

2) Creating magical abominations and letting them run wild.

Slaanesh will probably get used as well; the whole conflict of the campaign comes from elven overpopulation.

big teej
2011-02-14, 01:51 AM
personally, I can't stand the Knife-eared .... creatures


because the way they are presented in fantasy contradicts itself.

elves are held up as the paragon of 'beautiful, just, good, harmony with nature, etc.'

but god forbid you accidentally walk into their forests, you'll be turned into a flipping pincushion before you even know you're trespassing.

oh, and another little gem, I was reading my 3.5 DMG the other day (its new) and came to the section on the planes (don't remember which one exactly, and my book isn't handy) that was populated by CELESTIAL elves.

CELESTIAL, I'd like to emphasize this in advance
that means they are angel-elves

and they were described as "very gracious, but quick to anger, and a visitor could find himself pincushioned if he says a wrong word" (paraphrased heavily)

this irritates the living hoo-ha outa me.


through no act of my own, I've developed a reputation as the DM "you don't play elves with"

.... I really dunno why.
I've never penalized someone for playing an elf, on either side of the screen.


....except that one time.:smallcool:

Yora
2011-02-14, 02:37 AM
I think those were not celestial elves, but sensible writing that said "just use the stats you would use for celestial elves".

hamishspence
2011-02-14, 05:15 AM
I seem to recall Manual of the Planes (3.0, but has 3.5 online update) saying that for the Plane of Faerie, Seelie and Unseelie Sidhe, could be represented using the stats for half-celestial and half-fiend elves respectively.

So they would be winged, and pretty powerful.

dsmiles
2011-02-14, 07:48 AM
So they would be winged, and pretty powerful.Yet, somehow, still not worth the LA. :smalltongue:

Coidzor
2011-02-14, 07:54 AM
Yet, somehow, still not worth the LA. :smalltongue:

You know what that means? They're XP farm material. :smallamused:

true_shinken
2011-02-14, 08:08 AM
Also really I feel insulted by that link... she doesn't enjoy it.

Neither did the nazi.

FMArthur
2011-02-14, 11:38 AM
It is a little funny that had to invent pointy-eared, tall, austere, magical Outsiders and Fey that really only represent elven qualities that were lost over the years in their human-ification as PC races. Aasimar and Eladrin for example can pretty much be described as "elves, but more elven".

Coidzor
2011-02-14, 11:43 AM
It is a little funny that had to invent pointy-eared, tall, austere, magical Outsiders and Fey that really only represent elven qualities that were lost over the years in their human-ification as PC races. Aasimar and Eladrin for example can pretty much be described as "elves, but more elven".

These ones go to 11!

hamishspence
2011-02-14, 11:55 AM
It is a little funny that had to invent pointy-eared, tall, austere, magical Outsiders and Fey that really only represent elven qualities that were lost over the years in their human-ification as PC races. Aasimar and Eladrin for example can pretty much be described as "elves, but more elven".

While those two are both Outsiders, LeShay in Epic Handbook fill the "more powerful elf-type beings with the Fey type" class (and they probably count as elves for the purposes of things that require Elf as a prerequisite, having a whole bunch of "Elf Traits").

It even says "they are to elves as elves are to humans".