[3.5] Help me build a new monstrous melee character

[Zapato]

So here's the situation: I've had some fun playing a draegloth barbarian the past year or so in our groups "City of the Spider Queen" campaign. He was strong, unique, had lots of good defenses and some extra natural attacks to boot. But mostly he hit hard and from 10 ft away due to his strength and large size. Unfortunately there were some down sides as well: I had to waste 6 character levels for his HD, I wasted a lot of feats allowing him to use his natural attacks without penalty's (not smart) and he was very very very boring. (Link: http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=256711).

Another problem I bumped into is that after he got cursed twice, he became unplayable. With my party members being able to fix everything except curses and due to the nature of the campaign having no other way to lift the curse for the next 3 months or so. I told my DM he had two options: either we find a scroll of remove curse thus giving our caster the ability to remove curses..OR my draegloth barbarian dies a heroic death the next fight and I build a new (better) character. He chose the latter..

I am however not an expert on DnD and I need some help building a fun, powerful, big, monstrous character. Can you guys help me?

Here are the rules:
- Version 3.5.
- Almost all material is allowed instead of campaign specific stuff like a warforged from Eberron (CotSQ is a Forgotten Realms campaign). Also no Homebrew.
- We play "City of the Spider Queen" followed by some other unknown campaigns.
- The party is an evil drow party determined to take back there 'home'. It consists of an erudite/thrallherd and his arcane/divine caster thrall, a drow warlock and a drow ranged fighter build.
- Character starts at lvl 11, in the end of the final campaign he's supposed to be about lvl 20.
- You can IGNORE 2 LA, any remaining LA can be bought off (my draegloth had a LA of +2 instead of +4, with the option to buy off the rest in a few levels). This was done because almost all the members were drow.
- Ability scores are 34 PBS or roll dice.
- Allowed to spend 50.000gp on starting equipment etc. Max price for 1 item is 15.000gp

Thanks in advance for all the help!

P.S. Yes I read the barbarian handbook (both of them). No I wont make a 'Hood'. And if anyone suggests any templates or classes and such, please mention which source book you got them from. Thank you :)

P.P.S. One fun build I found was: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=176941. I dont like being a dwarf as a base class though. Even if it means sacrificing some +str. But you kinda get the idea this way of what I want and how much cheese my DM allows ^^

[Greenish]

How about a totemist from Magic of Incarnum? That's practically a "build your own monster" class. Two LA gets you a nice big race, or if you're feeling cheesy, some templates.

[Halae]

first off, we need to know the level of cheese you want. If you want something downright broken, we can come up with a critter that will give you +30 strength at only +2 LA. if you want something more balanced, you have to tell us so

I also have to ask though, why was the Draegloth so boring?

[JeminiZero]

Exactly what 3.5 sources are allowed?

I'm going to suggest something with a Warblade [Tome of Battle] splash for IRON HEART SURGE, which should handily get rid of any future curses that might strike you.

[Zapato]

first off, we need to know the level of cheese you want. If you want something downright broken, we can come up with a critter that will give you +30 strength at only +2 LA. if you want something more balanced, you have to tell us so

I also have to ask though, why was the Draegloth so boring?

It's hard to explain the kinda cheese I want since a tier system doesn't really work for our party. We have a Erudite player + thrall being able to disintergrate/shapeshift into a dragon/whatnot. Though I have the idea he holds back a lot, and we had some though fights the last couple of weeks (smart combination of monsters and evil clerics). My Draegloth as you might see was able to hit for about 40~50 damage non crit. And about 70 or so damage if he didn't move (full attacks). A bit stronger and more options for my next character wont hurt (my example build I edited in should give a good idea).

My draegloth was boring because the only thing he did was run in and hit things with his axe, thats it, nothing else.


Exactly what 3.5 sources are allowed?

I'm going to suggest something with a Warblade [Tome of Battle] splash for IRON HEART SURGE, which should handily get rid of any future curses that might strike you.

Curses wont be a problem in the future since my DM won't screw me over the same way again for a long while (I hope :P). Also our warlock will be able to create a remove curse scroll or something when she hits lvl 12, thus eliminating the problem for good.
Almost all material is allowed instead of campaign specific stuff like a warforged from Eberron (CotSQ is a Forgotten Realms campaign). Also no Homebrew.

[Halae]

It's hard to explain the kinda cheese I want since a tier system doesn't really work for our party. We have a Erudite player + thrall being able to disintergrate/shapeshift into a dragon/whatnot. My Draegloth as you might see was able to hit for about 40~50 damage non crit. And about 70 or so damage if he didn't move (full attacks). A bit stronger and more options for my next character wont hurt (my example build I edited in should give a good idea).

My draegloth was boring because the only thing he did was run in and hit things with his axe, thats it, nothing else.

I see it as having a lot of roleplay options when you choose any kind of half-fiendish creature, but that's just an opinion

That said, have you considered the Warblade class? you're still a fighty character, but you have the choice between all of your maneuvers

One favorite tactic of mine is to take a race that gets 2 feats right off the bat, like human or strongheart halfling, then get the feat Trollblooded. That makes it so your character is fatigued in sunlight, but if you're playing city of the spider queen that shouldn't be much ofa problem. It gives you regen 1, and then you can take Rapid regeneration (from one of the fiendish codexes) to increase the number of regen you have. very flavorful when you go with the Half-Troll template from the fiend folio, and gives you absolutely ridiculous amounts of healing every round - certainly enough to keep up with damage if your AC is high, and you're essentially unkillable to everything but fire and acid - and even then, your fast healing picks up that

[LordBlades]

If you want something truly brutal, I'd suggest something like Feral Mineral Warrior Water Orc Barbarian/Fighter/Frenzied Berserker. Take Martial Study to get Iron Heart Surge (so you can end Frenzy at will)

Feral is +1 LA template from Savage Species, Mineral Warrior is +1 LA template from Underdark, Water Orc is no LA race from Unearthened Arcana

[Greenish]

It's hard to explain the kinda cheese I want since a tier system doesn't really work for our party. We have a Erudite player + thrall being able to disintergrate/shapeshift into a dragon/whatnot. Though I have the idea he holds back a lot, and we had some though fights the last couple of weeks (smart combination of monsters and evil clerics). My Draegloth as you might see was able to hit for about 40~50 damage non crit. And about 70 or so damage if he didn't move (full attacks).Okay, so blaster casters and melee characters who can't full attack and move on the same round. That does narrow it in.

Potential monstrous races and templates, in no particular order:

half-ogre (race, Races of Destiny, large, +2 LA),
Feral (template, Savage Species, claw attacks/NA/good stats/specials, +1 LA),
Mineral Warrior (template, Underdark (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20031003e), +1 LA),
half-minotaur (template, Dragon #313, size increase/insane stats/special, +1 LA)
Water orc (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/elementalRacialVariants.htm#waterOrcs) (race, UA, good stats, 0 LA)
Goliath (race, Races of Stone, Powerful Build/good stats, +1 LA)

[Zapato]

I see it as having a lot of roleplay options when you choose any kind of half-fiendish creature, but that's just an opinion

That said, have you considered the Warblade class? you're still a fighty character, but you have the choice between all of your maneuvers

One favorite tactic of mine is to take a race that gets 2 feats right off the bat, like human or strongheart halfling, then get the feat Trollblooded. That makes it so your character is fatigued in sunlight, but if you're playing city of the spider queen that shouldn't be much ofa problem. It gives you regen 1, and then you can take Rapid regeneration (from one of the fiendish codexes) to increase the number of regen you have. very flavorful when you go with the Half-Troll template from the fiend folio, and gives you absolutely ridiculous amounts of healing every round - certainly enough to keep up with damage if your AC is high, and you're essentially unkillable to everything but fire and acid - and even then, your fast healing picks up that

It was VERY fun to roleplay. But sadly we hit lots of enemy fodder the last couple of months. I dont know what going to happen but it might take a while till we get to some role playing again.

Also your avatar is the best thing since fried potatoes.

And thanks everyone for your help so far!

[Dark_24]

You always can use a feral goliath barbarian, with a +1 keen goliath greathammer (3d6 for using a large one) and if your clerics alredy have rigtheous wrath of the faithfull, its a good idea to worship Lolth jejeje

[Halae]

Wait, how has nobody suggested Lolth-touched yet?

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Race: Water Orc (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/elementalRacialVariants.htm#racesOfWater) (UA) version of a Frostblood Orc (Dragon Magic), Half-Minotaur (Dragon 313), Llolth Touched (MMIV), Phrenic Creature (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/monsters/phrenicCreature.htm) (XPH), total LA +4, two of which can be ignored town to LA +2, which can be bought off by 9th level for 16,000 XP total. Total racial traits:

Large Humanoid (Orc, Dragonblood, Psionic)
Str +22, Dex -2, Con +14, Int -2, Cha +2.
Natural Armor +4.
Natural Weapon: A large size half-minotaur has a gore attack which deals 1d8 damage. If making weapon attacks this can be used as a secondary attack at -5 to hit, adding half your strength bonus to damage, which does not penalize your other attacks in any way.
Skills: A half-minotaur has a +2 racial bonus on Search, Spot, and Listen checks.
Minotaur Cunning (Ex): Half-minotaurs gain much of the innate cunning of their minotaur parent. This gives the half-minotaur a +4 racial bonus on intelligence checks to escape maze spells and the ability to determine which direction is north automatically.
Scent (Ex): The half-minotaur inherits a very keen sense of smell. This allows him to detect approaching enemies, sniff out hidden foes, and track by sense of smell alone.
Feats: A half-minotaur has Track as a bonus feat.
+1 racial bonus on attack rolls against creatures of the fire subtype, including extraplanar creatures from the Elemental Plane of Fire.
-2 penalty on all saving throws against spells, spell-like abilities, and supernatural abilities with the fire subtype or used by creatures of the fire subtype, including extraplanar creatures from the Elemental Plane of Fire.
Natural Swimmers: Members of water races have a swim speed equal to their base land speed (40 ft. in this case). (If the creature already has a swim speed, it improves by 10 feet.) A water creature can move through water at its swim speed without making Swim checks. It has a +8 racial bonus on any Swim check to perform some special action or avoid a hazard. A water creature can always choose to take 10 on a Swim check, even if distracted or endangered. It can use the run action while swimming, provided it swims in a straight line.
Psi-Like Abilities (Sp): refer to the table. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/monsters/phrenicCreature.htm) Due to it being treated as a (Sp)ell-like ability, you can take Quicken Spell-Like Ability (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsterFeats.htm#quickenSpellLikeAbility) and Maximize Spell-Like Ability (CA) for individual powers. Psi-like abilities never cost any powerpoints but are automatically considered to be augmented so their cost equals the manifester level.
Naturally Psionic: A phrenic creature gains 1 bonus power point.
Power Resistance (Ex): A phrenic creature has power resistance equal to its Hit Dice +10.
Fearless (Ex): Lolth-touched creatures have immunity to all fear effects.
Skills: A Lolth-touched creature gains a +4 racial bonus on Hide and Move Silently checks.
Resistance to Cold 10: Because their ancestors ingested the blood of great white dragons, all frostblood orcs and half-orcs are naturally resistant to damage from cold-based attacks.
Endurance: Frostblood orcs and half-orcs have Endurance as a bonus feat. If a frostblood orc or half-orc would later gain Endurance as a bonus feat, he can select any other feat for which he qualifies.
Vulnerability to Fire: Frostblood orcs and half-orcs share the white dragon’s vulnerability to fire-based attacks.
Base land speed 40 feet.
Darkvision out to 60 feet.
Light Sensitivity: Orcs are dazzled in bright sunlight or within the radius of a daylight spell.
Automatic Languages: Common, Orc. Bonus Languages: Dwarven, Giant, Gnoll, Goblin, Undercommon.
Alignment: A Lolth-touched creature's alignment changes to Chaotic Evil.
Favored Class: Barbarian.

Ability Scores, 34 point buy:
Str 38 (14 base, +22 race, +2 levels)
Dex 14 (16 base, -2 race)
Con 24 (10 base, +14 race)
Int 10 (12 base, -2 race)
Wis 14
Cha 16 (14 base, +2 race)
That starting gold is pitiful, especially considering you can't even get a +4 stat item with that single item limitation. It's workable, but you'll need spellcasting for self-buffing.

For your class level build, I'd go Duskblade (PH2) 2/ Dungeoncrasher Fighter (Dungeonscape) 2/ Paladin of Slaughter (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#paladinVariantsFreedom SlaughterAndTyranny) (UA) 2/ Suel Arcanamach (CA) 4/ Abjurant Champion (CM) 5/ Spellsword (CW) 1/ Dragon Disciple (DMG) 5.

Take two flaws (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/buildingCharacters/characterFlaws.htm) (Meager Fortitude and Weak-Willed) to get two extra feats. Your feats should be as follows: Track and Endurance (race) Chaos Shuffled to Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Greathorn Minotaur Greathammer (MMIV) and Arcane Strike (CW) (see gear and purchases for an explanation), Combat Reflexes (Flaw), Magic in the Blood* (PGtF, regional, qualify with Kn: Local 2 ranks) (flaw), Power Attack (1), Combat Casting (bonus), Improved Bull Rush (F1), Knock-Back (RoS) (3), Iron Will (Otyugh Hole, CS), Practiced Spellcaster: Suel Arcanamach (CA/CD) (6), Maximize Spell-Like Ability: Mind Thrust (CA) (9), Maximize Spell-Like Ability: Body Adjustment (CA) (12), Minor Shapeshift (CM) (15), Defensive Sweep (PH2) (18).
*Your Psi-like abilities gained via Phrenic are considered (Sp)ell-like abilities, so any of them usable 1/day will be available 3/day thanks to Magic in the Blood.

Skills: Use Skilled City-Dweller (http://wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20070228a) to get Tumble instead of Ride as a class skill with every class that would grant Ride. Meet the skill prerequisites for your prestige classes, keep up your ranks in Concentration, get at least 5 ranks in Balance, and get whatever skills you think you would want. Max cross-class ranks in Autohypnosis (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/skills/autohypnosis.htm) (XPH) wouldn't be a bad idea if you can afford it.

Items:
You can say you visited the Otyugh Hole detailed in Complete Scoundrel to get Iron Will for 3,000 gold without spending a feat on it, which you'll need to get into Suel Arcanamach.
Again paying standard rates for NPC Spellcasting, you received the spells Embrace the Dark Chaos (FCI) and Shun the Dark Chaos (FCI), each of which cost 2450 gp, for a total cost of 9800 gp to get it done twice. What this does is the first replaces any feat you currently have (Track and Endurance) with any Abyssal Heritor feat, the second removes your Abyssal Heritor feat and replaces it with any feat of your choosing for which you qualify. Thus for an expensive fee you can replace your Track and Endurance racial bonus feats with Exotic Weapon Proficiency and Arcane Strike, at a level at which you qualify for that.
Your weapon is a Greathorn Minotaur Greathammer (MMIV), no price is listed but a Maul (CW) is similar and costs 15 gp. I'd make it cost twice the price of a Maul, 30 gp, doubled for large size, 60 gp, plus masterwork and enchanting. It should be +1, Sudden Stunning (DMG2), and Spellblade (PGtF), for a total cost of 10,360 gp. Spellblade should be set to automatically block any Greater Dispel Magic that's targeted against you. It won't stop an area dispel from affecting you but you should have quite a few buffs up at any given time and you don't want them all removed.
Your armor should be Mithral Breastplate with a Thistledown Suit (RotW), it has a 10% arcane spell failure chance which Suel Arcanamach ignores, and it's light so it doesn't affect your Duskblade casting. Large size Breastplate is 400 gp, Thistledown Suit is 250 gp, mithral medium armor is 4,000 gp, so it costs 4,650 gp total.
You'll be able to cast Shield quickened at Abjurant Champion 2, and add your Abjurant Champion level to its AC bonus, and you also get Force Screen which you can choose to be manifest as a swift action as per its augmentation, so no need to buy a shield.
Armbands of Might (MIC, CV) are a good investment. They give you an extra +2 to Strength-based checks, such as bull rush and grapple, plus an extra +2 damage when Power Attacking.
Circlet of Rapid Casting (MIC) Round 1: Wraithstrike (extended, swift), Arcane Strike (free action), Power Attack for your BAB, full attack; Round 2: Arcane Strike (free action), Power Attack for your BAB, full attack with Wraithstrike still active, use the Circlet to cast Whirling Blade (swift) and get an attack on everyone in a line with Wraithstrike, Power Attack, and Arcane Strike still added in, plus they're considered melee attacks so you can Knockback everyone you hit.
Get a Lesser Metamagic Rod of Extend. Due to the wording on spontaneously cast spells with metamagic taking longer to cast, if the spell's normal casting time is not a standard action or longer, i.e. if it has a swift action cast time normally, then the casting time is not increased for using metamagic. Wraithstrike (CV, SC) is one such spell. Suel Arcanamach extends this anyway, but if you can get triple the duration then do so. If not, just use it with Greater Mighty Wallop and Greater Magic Weapon.
You have just 90 gp remaining for everything else. Don't forget a Spell Component Pouch or three and other basic gear, like javelins and a dagger, and don't forget large size weapons cost twice as much. Armor Spikes or even better Armor Razors (Underdark) would be good to have but large size is out of your price range.


High-priority future items include an Eternal Wand (MIC) of Hound of Doom (CW), Cloak of Charisma, Vest of Resistance (CA), Belt of Strength, the Speed and Impact (MIC) properties on your weapon, Ring of Arcane Might (CA/MIC), Ring of Freedom of Movement, a Deflection bonus to AC added to one of those rings (MIC), Orange Prism Ioun Stone (DMG), Necklace of Adaptation (DMG), an Enhancement bonus to natural armor added to the necklace (MIC). Some +1 Illithidwrought (Underdark) Armor Spikes or Razors will add a +2 Insight bonus to all of your attack and damage rolls, and you can make them Defending and put Greater Magic Weapon on them to apply their enhancement bonus to your AC, but this should only be purchased after all of the above.

Suel Arcanamach spells known (listed in order of highest priority first):
1st- Shield, Expeditious Retreat or Swift Expeditious Retreat (CV/SC), True Casting (CM, if it will work with your psi-like abilities), Silent Image.
2nd- Wraithstrike (CV/SC), Bladeweave (SC) or Bull's Strength, Whirling Blade (SC), Heart of Air (CM), later replace Heart of Air with See Invisibility.
3rd- Greater Mighty Wallop (RotD), Heart of Water, Greater Magic Weapon or Shrink Item.
4th- Greater Mirror Image (PH2), Ray Deflection (SC), Overland Flight.
5th- Draconic Polymorph* (Draconomcion), Heart of Fire (CM).
*Polymorph and Draconic Polymorph mimic Alter Self, and Alter Self specifically says you can use it to take the form of yourself. Therefore, you can Draconic Polymorph into yourself to get Str +8, Con +2 as unnamed bonuses.

Duskblade spells known: Your caster level will only be two, so go for versatility over damage and be sure to get True Strike.

You want to catch an opponent with his back to the wall, so you can use Knockback with Dungeoncrasher to do massive damage on your full attacks. Once you get Overland Flight you can fly above an opponent and bull rush them into the ground for the same kind of damage. With your size and strength, plus Wraithstrike and Power Attack, Arcane Strike, Greater Mighty Wallop, buffs like Bull's Strength and Draconic Polymorph, Knockback with Dungeoncrasher, a 19-20/x4 weapon, and anything else I missed, you should be putting out an unbelievable amount of damage every round. Opponents you can't reach can be targeted by Javelins and Maximized Mind Thrust or various other psionic powers. Your character has a glaring weakness to fire effects, but you should have Heart of Fire constantly active once you get 5th level spells so that's Resistance 20. Fire effects is just damage anyway, you have a lot of HP and damage is easy to fix. It should give you plenty of hilarious "FIRE BAD!" opportunities. With Sudden Stunning, Knockback, Bladeweave, psionic powers, and being able to use your gore to make trip attempts without provoking AoOs, you should be able to contribute a lot more than just damage. Between AC, power resistance, Paladin save bonuses, and defensive spells like Greater Mirror Image, this character should survive for quite a long time.

[Zapato]

I've got a pretty good idea now what (sub)race(s) I'm gonna play now. Any ideas for classes/feats/items? Any interesting builds with warblade possible?

I've taken a second look at the build I posted. Runescarred berserker sounds fun because of the AMF and frenzied can be fun if I can chose to stop frenzying(my party members are not the forgiving type :P). But the rest is mostly unarmed combat focused witch I dont care much about.

Edit: Jikes! I didn't saw that post before. Thanks for all the work! I skimmed it but ill read it letter for letter in the morning.

[VirOath]

Just for the shear "You're playing a WHAT?!" factor, and because some of the concepts for it would be fun, A Lolth Touched Shadow Elan (uses the Elan from XPH, Lolth Touched template from MMIV, Shadow Template from ToM)

And since you aren't classed as a humanoid, and are evil anyways, it opens up the Soul Eater PrC out of BoVD. Mind you, all of this is picked for flavor more than anything else. It would require a tax of two feats (Alertness and Weapon focus) and isn't worth picking up past the first level, a lot of dead levels to it. But it's a permanent way to deal negative levels to creatures and the fluff has you needing to feast on the souls of others to survive. Oh, and it's full BAB with all good saves.

Totemist or Psywar would be a good base for it. Gives you the options of being a melee brute using unarmed or natural weapons, letting you get your touch stuff off as well as providing a lot of utility as well.

Oh, and the best part? You can pretty much look like a Drow :P

[Zapato]

I read the whole thing Biff. And I thank you for all the hard work you put in, but I'm afraid that build is a little heavy on the cheese / rule bending for my DM's taste :). I got lots of fun ideas from it though.

[riddles]

Whenever anyone says to me “you can have +2LA for free", i immediately look to werecreaturesin your setting you may also want to consider verminthropes, which are posted on the wotc website.

Begin with monk as a base, or even just take IUS. Take the shocktrooper pounce route. Large creature (for the knockback feat) and you are set.

You may also want to consider a meatwall crusader. Plenty of options there.

[Zapato]

Thanks to everyone who helped! The end result: http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=275259