Swiftblade build [3.5]

[Ducklord]

I'm working on a Swiftblade build that would be playable from low levels, and that wouldn't lose too much casting levels. Preferably something with Swashbuckler in the mix. So far I have:

Human Swashbuckler3/Warblade1/Wizard2/Abjurant Champion3/Swiftblade9/AC2

Feats:
lvl1: Martial study(something from shadow hand), Dodge, Wapon finesse(bonus)
lvl3: Combat casting
lvl6: Shadow blade
lvl9: Mobility

Any ideas for improvements?

[Greenish]

Any ideas for improvements?Instant improvement: drop the swash levels.

[Edit]: Also, you'd need a Shadow Hand stance for Shadow Blade.

[Ducklord]

Instant improvement: drop the swash levels.

[Edit]: Also, you'd need a Shadow Hand stance for Shadow Blade.

What do I take instead of Swashbuckler? The int to damage is really nice.

I can take a shadow hand stance with Warblade thanks to the Martial study.

[pilvento]

im actually playing a swiftblade (check avatar)

my build starts as monk then sorcerer, then enlighted fist the swiftblade.

if u want int u can go wizard and use the variant for monk-wizard in races of dragons to use int for AC instead of wis or cha like me.

also enlightned fist from complete adventurer or complete arcane, not shure now its a perfect prc for a gish build. i dont know ToB so i have no idea of why that warblade dip.

i can post my build to give u more ideas, the game is lvl 16 now and we are all optimized and i can tell u i can deal a lot of damage and mobility works a lot as a gish caster. int to dmg swashbuckler features eats a lot of spellcasting. if u chose sorcerer or another cha caster u can buy "boots of battledancig" to use cha in place of str bonus. or u can talk your dm to homebrew "boots of battlethinking" ??

[Kansaschaser]

My Swiftblade build: Wizard 6 / Swiftblade 9 / Paragnostic Apostle 5

There is an ability from Paragnostic Apostle that can improve the speed bonus of a spell by +10 feet. You can take that 2-3 times for a bonus of +20-30 feet of movement from Haste.

There is also another ability from Paragnostic Apostle that improves the armor bonus from spells by +2. You can take that 2-3 times for a bonus of +4 to +6.

If you take the +6 bonus to AC, then you can only gain a +20ft of movement from spells.

[Eldariel]

My Swiftblade build: Wizard 6 / Swiftblade 9 / Paragnostic Apostle 5

There is an ability from Paragnostic Apostle that can improve the speed bonus of a spell by +10 feet. You can take that 2-3 times for a bonus of +20-30 feet of movement from Haste.

There is also another ability from Paragnostic Apostle that improves the armor bonus from spells by +2. You can take that 2-3 times for a bonus of +4 to +6.

If you take the +6 bonus to AC, then you can only gain a +20ft of movement from spells.

The classic version is Wizard 6/Swiftblade 9/Abjurant Champion 5 but yeah, Paragnostic has some cute abilities. Still, Champ is more gishy and gives you nice AC boosts (+10 composite from Shield and Greater Luminous Armor on max level). Soo...yeah.

[Greenish]

What do I take instead of Swashbuckler? The int to damage is really nice.I'd take more warblade, maneuvers are pretty sweet.


I can take a shadow hand stance with Warblade thanks to the Martial study.Martial Study is for maneuvers. You need Martial Stance for picking a stance, and that requires you to have a maneuver of that school first, meaning you'll be burning three feats for the Shadow Blade.


[Edit]: Also, Dodge and Mobility are fighter feats (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#wizard).

[pilvento]

also see

http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19871410/The_Swiftblade_Handbook

[Kansaschaser]

The classic version is Wizard 6/Swiftblade 9/Abjurant Champion 5 but yeah, Paragnostic has some cute abilities. Still, Champ is more gishy and gives you nice AC boosts (+10 composite from Shield and Greater Luminous Armor on max level). Soo...yeah.

The Abjurant Champion gives a max of +5 to AC for any abjuration spell that adds an armor bonus. As a Paragnostic Apostle, you can get +6 to AC for spells that grant an armor bonus.

It kind of works out the same, but Abjurant Champion kind of comes out ahead with better hit points, base attack, and abilities. But if you want to give up some of the Swiftblade and go with: Wizard 6 / Swiftblade 6 / Abjurant Champion 3 / Paragnostic Apostle 5, then you can still get some really good abilities.

[Eldariel]

The Abjurant Champion gives a max of +5 to AC for any abjuration spell that adds an armor bonus. As a Paragnostic Apostle, you can get +6 to AC for spells that grant an armor bonus.

Which is why you get both, Shield & Armor-bonus from separate spells each getting +5 from AC totalling out at +10. Neat, eh?

[Douglas]

I can take a shadow hand stance with Warblade thanks to the Martial study.
No, you can't. Martial Study gets you one single non-stance maneuver and a permanent class skill. It does not get you a stance, and it does not give you full access to the discipline. If you want more maneuvers or stances from that discipline you will have to either multiclass appropriately or take Martial Study or Martial Stance additional times.

[Ducklord]

No, you can't. Martial Study gets you one single non-stance maneuver and a permanent class skill. It does not get you a stance, and it does not give you full access to the discipline. If you want more maneuvers or stances from that discipline you will have to either multiclass appropriately or take Martial Study or Martial Stance additional times.

Then where did I get the impression that Martial Study gives you access to a discipline? Oh well, I guess that won't fly then.

I'm starting to feel more and more that Shadow Blade is not worth it.. But Swashbuckler still sounds good with that Int to dmg. Is it really not worth keeping? Which maneuvers are so good, they are worth losing that?

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

So you're including Swashbuckler to get your Int bonus to damage with finesseable weapons. That means if you also want to use Power Attack you'll be using either a Spiked Chain or an Elven Courtblade (RotW), each of which would cost you a feat. If not, then you're probably not going to be doing a significant enough amount of damage to properly fulfill that role in the party. How high is your Int bonus going to be in the early levels, +3? Forget about using Weapon Finesse or Swashbuckler and go with a high strength, your character will be better off for it. The sooner you get 2nd level spells the sooner you can cast (Lesser Rod of Extended) Wraithstrike and Power Attack for you full BAB without worrying about missing.


As for Swiftblade builds in general, there's the Venerable Spellhoarding Dragonwrought Desert Kobold Loredrake, Stalwart Battle Sorcerer, with the Greater Draconic Rite of Passage. That trades its Sorcerer spellcasting for Wizard casting of equal level, which it casts at three levels higher than your character level, and you write your spells on your scales so there's no risk of losing a spellbook. You could go Stalwart Battle Sorcerer 4/ Swiftblade 9/ Abjurant Champion 5/ Dragonslayer 1/ Spellsword 1 and have 20th level spellcasting at level 20 with a +19 BAB and all the Swiftblade goodness.

[Kansaschaser]

As for Swiftblade builds in general, there's the Venerable Spellhoarding Dragonwrought Desert Kobold Loredrake, Stalwart Battle Sorcerer, with the Greater Draconic Rite of Passage. That trades its Sorcerer spellcasting for Wizard casting of equal level, which it casts at three levels higher than your character level, and you write your spells on your scales so there's no risk of losing a spellbook. You could go Stalwart Battle Sorcerer 4/ Swiftblade 9/ Abjurant Champion 5/ Dragonslayer 1/ Spellsword 1 and have 20th level spellcasting at level 20 with a +19 BAB and all the Swiftblade goodness.

Holy Tiamat Poop Batman! I think I just had a stroke thinking about that build. Literally, my left eyelid is twitching.

[dextercorvia]

Oh, one more nail in the Shadow Blade coffin. You can't select any maneuvers at level 1 unless you start with a Initiator Class. That makes Martial Study a worthless feat for you at 1.