View Full Version : Fixing epic magic 3.5

2011-02-10, 09:35 PM
Well its been said before and it will be said again. 3.5 epic magic is broken like a pencil. I hate hate hate the system it uses and strongly support the non epic version of spell casting so I am making this thread I have not yet prepared for anything other then 20/20 spell casters so those will be implemented later.

Spell casters will continue to gain spell casting slots as they were previously at a steady rate. 21st level casters and above are epic casters they have access to epic spells and epic spell slots(slots 10-20). The feat for epic spell casting no longer exists. Druids, Wizards and clerics gain a new spell slot every 2 levels after 21 so you get 10th level spells at 21 11th at 23 12th at 25 ect. Sorcerers get new spell slot every 3 levels so 10th at 21st 11th at 24th ect. The divine spell ability table is used to determine additional spells past 9th level.

Metamagic is applied to epic spells normally.

Spell lists
yes many of these spells are upgraded versions of lower level spells but I am not very creative so if you have one you want to see in here just send it to me or post it.

Sor/Wiz 10, Drd 10
Components: V,S
Duration 10min/level
Casting time: Full round
Range: Self
You understand all spoken languages and gain great insight into what those around you are thinking and doing. You gain a +20 bonus to sense motive and a +5 insight bonus to AC, attack rolls, Reflex saves and diplomacy checks. You can use an intelligence check with a +20 bonus to determine what any living creature is thinking
DCs 30 for emotions like fear or hunger 40 for the target of its emotions ie. fear of you or anger at your buddy DC 50 for surface thoughts.

Fleet of foot(trans)
Drd 10,Sor/Wiz 10
Duration: 1 round/level
Casting time: Standard action
Range: Touch
You gain a 100ft bonus to you movement speed. This bonus only applies to your base land speed not any other form of travel such as flight or swimming. This bonus affects your jumping distance.

Mighty Bear's,Bull's,Cat's,Eagle's,Fox's,Owl's Whatever
Clr 11 Sor/Wiz 11 Drd 11
Components: V,S
Duration: 1min/level
Casting time: Standard action
Range: Touch
You gain a +12 enhancement bonus to the respective ability score for the duration of the spell

Sor/Wiz 12
Components: V,S
Duration: Instant
Casting time: Standard action
Range: 20ft cone
SR: yes
Save: Ref half
A Blast of intense flames jumps from you hand in a 20ft cone Dealing 2d4/level fire damage(max 60d4) This burns any flamable objects, melts certain metals with low melting points, Scorches stone and melts it if it deals enough damage to break it turning it into lava. If used on a dead body it leaves only the bones.

Battering Ram
Sor/Wiz 10
Components: S
Duration: Instant
Range: Short 50ft+5/2 levels
SR: Maybe
Save: If intelligent
This spell destroys a door,gate or wall. It smashes it to pieces overcoming any protective spells placed upon it. If used on a wall this spell makes a 10 ft square into the wall horizontally and goes through 5 ft per 10 caster levels

Immoveable object
Clr 15 Sor/Wiz 14
Components: V,S
Duration: 5 rounds/level
Range: Personal
This spell creates an exceedingly powerful magical shield that provides a +25 bonus to AC and no spell failure or armor check penalty. This shield also imbues the caster with SR equal to caster level*2. Any magical weapon that strikes the shield must succeed a DC 30 fortitude save or be temporarily drained of 1 point of magical enhancement per 5 caster levels of the caster. This lasts for 2 hours.

Unstoppable Force
Sor/Wiz 14
Components: S
Duration: instant
Range: 1 mile
SR: No
Save: TBD
This is a powerful force attack that sends a single beam of pure force energy less then a centimeter across through everything it touches. This spell deals 40d6 damage to any creature it hits. This affect tears through magical protection easily and acts like a dispel affect with a +25 bonus. It acts as a disjunction spell for the puropose of anti magic fields and if it hits an Immovable object spell then the two dispel one another.

Fire of the Gods
Sor/Wiz: 15 Clr 15
Components: V,S,M,B(backlash)
Duration: Instant
SR: Yes
Save: Ref half
Area: 120 foot cone or 60ft radius
Range: medium 100ft+10ft/caster level(if radius then it acts like a fireball if cone then it simply goes out in front of you.)
This is an intense blast of fire and explosive power that deals 3d6 fire damage/level to anything in the area. This melts rocks and turns them into lava as the rock to lava spell but still affects worked stone. This melts metals and anything combustible is turned to ash. Any creature caught in the blast whether they succeed their save or not has their clothes burnt and armor melted the armor receives a save in the case of success it undergoes the affects of Heat metal at searing for 5 rounds before cooling at the rate depicted there. If it fails then it melts and grafts itself to the skin of the creature wearing it this deals 2 points of constitution damage and 2d4 fire damage for 10 rounds. The armor must be surgically removed if it melts on DC 40 heal check under perfect conditions in the field it requires a DC 80 check and failure results in an additional 5 points of constitution damage as well as 1d6 str and 1d6 Dex damage. If the subject is awake for the surgery then they take 1d6 wisdom damage and 1d6 constitution damage if asleep they take 1d6 constitution damage. A simple heal spell or anything short of a Wish will not remove the armor.
Material Component: a flask of alchemists fire
Backlash: The caster loses their ability to cast temporarily and must wait a number of rounds equal to the spell level in order to gain the ability to cast spells of that level again (ex. must wait 3 rounds for 3rd level 10 rounds for 10th level) this can be replaced by taking 1d6 direct Hit point damage(no mitigation) for each spell level (ex. take 10d6 damage and wait only 5 rounds to recover 15th level spell casting)

More to come! Please offer any advice you have point out mistakes I have made and let me know if this is a ridiculous venture.

2011-02-10, 10:38 PM
Reserved for anything and everything

2011-02-10, 10:39 PM
more reserve because I might need lots of room.

2011-02-11, 01:25 AM
Not bad, though the lists are a bit tiny.

You do realize that this is the system that Pathfinder uses for Epic Casting, right?

2011-02-11, 01:32 AM
Here are a couple spells:

Absolute Resurrection (Conjuration; Cleric 12)
Casting Time: 10 minutes

This spell searches through the past and summons the last resurrectable vestiges of a being that ever existed. Because of this, it has no limitations with respect to old age, time spent dead, or method of death barring erasure from time itself. This spell can even create a copy of a being whose soul is currently imprisoned. The danger of this spell is that it always works, even if there is nothing to resurrect. Any gaps in the source for the resurrected entity are filled by 'something': opportunistic vestiges, etc. Furthermore, this is doubly likely if the spell is creating a copy of a being that exists in some form.

Material component: 5000xp or 50000gp.

Return to Self (Conjuration; Cleric 10)
Range: Touch

Similar to Absolute Resurrection, this spell searches through time to find a moment in which the target was healthy. The spell knits together information from their past with their present form, restoring their body. This spell heals 100hp per caster level without cap, but does not use positive energy to do so and so can function on undead and constructs.

Detect Cosmological Significance (Divination; Cleric, Sor/Wizard 12)
Range: 60ft cone
Duration: Instant

This spell causes the caster's vision to briefly flare with information about those they are looking at. Different cosmological associations are rendered into patterns of colors and symbols that float off of the targets. This spell can distinguish gods from mortals, determine creature type, and indicates with different colors all significant cosmic associations the creature has (elemental; conceptual - time, force, magic, ...; historical - primordial being, neverborn, ...).

Hand of Oblivion (Evocation; Cleric, Sor/Wizard 15)
Range: Touch
Duration: Until expended

This charges the hand of the caster with the roiling black energies of Oblivion that destroys not only matter but the very fabric of reality. A being successfully touched by this attack permanently loses 8d6 hitpoints from their maximum. Creatures killed by having their maximum hitpoints reduced to zero are normally impossible to resurrect.

Blood of Annihilation (Evocation; Cleric, Sor/Wizard 15)
Range: Personal
Duration: 1 round/level

This spell replaces the caster's blood with the energies of Oblivion. Whenever they take damage from a melee attack in combat that does not have reach, a bit splashes out upon the attacker. This effect permanently reduces the maximum hitpoints of the attacker by 5.

Analysis (Divination; Sor/Wizard 13)

This spell fully and completely analyzes a single supernatural effect of effective spell level 15 or lower.

Reduce to Components (Transmutation; Sor/Wizard 12)

This spell reduces the target item, spell effect, alchemical mixture, etc into its components. This is most useful for the purposes of analysis or extracting rare things from ancient objects.

Ban (Abjuration; Cleric 14)
Duration: Permanent

This spell creates and applies a Ban that is enforced by the universe through the manipulation of probabilities. It has two components. One is cast ahead of time as a 24 hour ritual in a place of power. This creates the Ban, which is a static construct of magical energy that taps the power of the place to enforce its wording. The second component can be cast as a standard action upon a willing target, which links them to the Ban. If the target attempts to violate the Ban, or is about the violate the Ban by no fault of their own, a quirk of probability occurs that prevents it.

In order to be valid, the Ban must use only information available to the caster and/or the target at the time of enforcement. If the Ban were 'tell no lies', for instance, it could not prevent the target from saying something that neither the caster nor target knew was untrue.

Components: 1000xp to create a new Ban

Say My Name and I Shall Hear (Conjuration; Cleric, Sor/Wiz 13)
Duration: Permanent

This spell creates a knot in the fabric of the universe that allows the caster to hear whenever the target of the spell speaks their name and to know their condition and location as per the Status and Discern Location spells from then on.

Temporal Shield (Abjuration; Sor/Wiz 12)
Duration: 1 round/level
Area of effect: 10ft radius globe
Range: 100ft

This spell creates a globe that protects those inside from temporal manipulations, including Time Stop, Haste, Slow, Time Hop, Time Regression, Timeless Body, and the like. This means that in the case of things like Time Stop and Haste, which act to benefit those outside the globe rather than harm those inside, the globe automatically gains the effects of such spells as per the Spell Stowaway feat if they are cast within range.

Travel (Conjuration; Sor/Wiz 12)

This spell combines the effects of several forms of teleportation and planeshifting: Teleport, Shadow Walk, Astral Projection, Etherealness, Planeshift, and the like, in order to attempt to defeat protections around an area. If any combination of those modes of teleportation and movement can allow the caster and those he brings with to get from where he is to where he wants to be, the spell will determine and apply that combination.

Soulstrike (Necromancy; Cleric 11, Sor/Wiz 11)
Save: Will negates

This spell destroys soul energy (experience points) in people and objects. It destroys 200xp per caster level, which can disenchant objects or de-level creatures.

Boon (Universal; Cleric 15)
Casting Time: Standard action
Range: Touch

This spell immediately grants a +5 Inherent bonus to a single one of the target's statistics.

Component: 5000xp

True Shield Other (Abjuration; Cleric 10)
Duration: 10 min/lv

The caster of this spell suffers all negative effects in place of the target (as per a reasonable definition, not, say, gravity), including damage, spell effects, and environmental effects. These completely bypass the caster's resistances and invulnerabilities regardless of source, but are subject to the target's. A given creature cannot be both the caster and target of a True Shield Other spell, nor can they receive True Shield Other from more than one caster at a time (to avoid infinite loops).

Karmic Backlash (Universal; Cleric 20)
Area: 50ft/level

This spell causes the universe to simultaneously evaluate the karma of both the caster and the targets of the spell. Based on the targets' karma, a just punishment is inflicted (if any is mandated). This spell requires the player and GM to be on the same page as far as these things, so is not recommended unless that can be said to be true.

Engraving the Soul (Universal; Cleric 13, Sor/Wizard 13)
Duration: 24 hours

This spell allows one magic item to function in an anti-magic field, null magic zone, or other ambient suppressing force by drawing energy from the caster's soul to power it.

Material component: 2500xp

Laestragonian Night (Conjuration; Cleric 10, Dark 10, Sor/Wizard 10)
Duration: 1rnd/lv
Area: 10ft radius emanation/level

This spell creates impenetrable darkness that defeats all forms of visual perception including True Sight and all light-based attacks (including gazes and Prismatic effects). Blindsight and the like still function.

Locate Anomaly (Divination; Cleric 12, Sor/Wizard 12)
Range: 1 mile/lv

This spell locates anomalies in the structure of reality - Far Realms rifts, lacunae, things like that.

Seize Realm (Cleric 20, Sor/Wizard 20)
Save: Will negates*

This spell attempts to seize control of a pocket plane, divine realm, or the like from the owner. *Even if the owner of the realm fails their save, the caster must make a successful caster level check against the HD of the realm's (potentially previous) owner or they will be unable to take control of the realm; the previous owner can then re-establish control as a free action.

Investiture (Cleric 10)

As Imbue with Spell Ability, but up to 5th level divine spells.

Greater Investiture (Cleric 14)

As Imbue with Spell Ability, up to 9th level divine spells.

Raise Legion (Cleric 13)
As Raise Dead, but affecting 10 bodies per caster level.

Component: 100gp of diamond dust per being raised.

Aegis (Cleric 12)

Allies within 30ft gain energy resistance and flat DR = Caster Level. The Aegis can absorb damage up to 20*CL before it collapses.

Commendation/Condemnation (Cleric 10)

This spell either commends or condemns a soul to a particular afterlife. A deity with strong interests in that particular soul is not bound by this spell.

Bind Petitioner (Cleric 12)

Allows a soul to be incarnated as a minor outsider bound to caster's realm.

Benign Possession (Sor/Wizard 10, Cleric 10)
Duration: 10 min/level
Save: Willing only

The caster temporarily merges with the target, granting them all spell effects except Benign Possession that they are under as well as allowing the target to make use of their skill ranks and mental ability scores if higher.

2011-02-11, 01:39 AM
Could you enchant a hammer with Ban?



Anyways, these are all great! My magitech system incorporates standard Epic Level Spells, though I'm considering dictating for my group that normal casters cannot cast them themselves and require the assistance of my Epic Runestones for that task... Nevermind, you likely have no idea what I'm talking about...

2011-02-11, 06:15 AM
My question is is this really fixing Epic Magic? All you're doing is extending non-epic magic a short way. The whole point of Epic is that it continues on for as long as it needs to. This system requires new spells to be made for each new spell level. Could there at least be at least some "scaling" spells that could be used in higher level spell slots for increased power (like built in metamagic, I guess, or like augmenting a psionic power)? Or spells that can be "learned" more than once, and increase their power each time they're scribed into a spellbook/learned by a sorceror/whatever?

2011-02-11, 09:18 AM
Well my assumption would be that there aren't many epic-level casters, and that those that there are tend to keep their spells to themselves. As it was, making epic level spells took forever, so we're just replacing a system of factors with DM approval of a newly researched spell.

As for scaling... I forget which, but one of the Metamagics in the ELH could be taken numerous times, increasing the slot adjustment each time you got it. There are a few basic metamagics everyone should pick up by Epic Level or just after it that should allow you to fill all of your slots.

2011-02-11, 12:42 PM
My question is is this really fixing Epic Magic? All you're doing is extending non-epic magic a short way. The whole point of Epic is that it continues on for as long as it needs to. This system requires new spells to be made for each new spell level. Could there at least be at least some "scaling" spells that could be used in higher level spell slots for increased power (like built in metamagic, I guess, or like augmenting a psionic power)? Or spells that can be "learned" more than once, and increase their power each time they're scribed into a spellbook/learned by a sorceror/whatever?

Well, the main feature of the epic magic system as it stands is that it either slows down _incredibly_ due to impossibly high DCs, or its instant super-power through Morrowind-potion-stacking shenanigans or accumulating mitigating factors.

If instead you have a framework for what an X level spell should be able to do, where X is, say, 10-20, then the DM can adjucate spells based on their power and scope rather than by an abusable factor-based system. It also allows the epic spellcasting to be more than just a numbers game because you can operate under the expectation that spells above 9th level are more than just 1st-9th level spells with bigger numbers, or fixed sets of effects with bigger numbers. The downside is that it isn't infinitely extendable, but on the other hand I think its more interesting this way, and its always extendable up to the limitations of the DM and campaign (which honestly should limit the extension of any system, since producing an effect the DM cannot adjucate or adjust the campaign to handle is by definition game-breaking).

2011-02-11, 05:57 PM
I did not know that this was path finder thanks for the help with spell lists.
When I said that epic magic is broken I meant all the factors like the small number of spells it has and its impossible spellcraft DCs