Julia Greenhilt's Guardian

[Sylthia]

It seems that Julia lives in a Wizard's boarding school but does she have any other relative's or would Roy be her legal guardian? Did Eugene make arrangements with his alma mater to raise his daughter before he died? (I don't remember whether Eugene or his wife died first.)

[Jay R]

Unless it has relevance to the plot, we'll never know.

[Dr.Epic]

Isn't she like 16? In D&D you hit adulthood (if you're human) at age 15. I doubt she needs one if we're going by D&D rules.

[TimelordSimone]

Isn't she like 16? In D&D you hit adulthood (if you're human) at age 15. I doubt she needs one if we're going by D&D rules.

15+whatever for your class.
But yeah she's probably fine.

[NerfTW]

Well, he died more than three years before the story begins (unless I just botched that number), and his wife died years before that, so Julia had to have a guardian at some point if she's 16 now.

Best guess is either a family member or she just became a ward of the Wizard school. Roy also mentions family friends he refers to as "uncle", members of Eugene's old party, so one of them could have also taken over parenting duties. And we really aren't told one way or the other that Roy has no other family outside his parents and two siblings.

But as mentioned, who was Julia's guardian for those years doesn't seem relevant to the plot or all that important, given the many possibilities.

[theNater]

Why would Julia need a legal guardian? It seems likely she's got the intelligence to take care of herself(as a wizard), the charisma to convince a judge of that(as the most popular girl in school), and enough money to support herself(assuming Eugene set up some sort of trust fund for her with any money he had left over from his adventuring days). No reason she couldn't be an emancipated minor.

[Velaryon]

I doubt Eugene would want to make Roy become Julia's guardian. We already know the low esteem in which he holds Roy's chosen profession. Would he really want the "dumb fighter" being responsible for the daughter he sees as the family's true hope? I doubt it. Besides, he's passed the blood oath on to Roy - he knows Roy can't hang around and make sure Julia gets to school on time, doesn't stay out late with her friends, etc.

Based on Roy's adventuring to take on Xykon, and Eugene's respect for wizardry, I think it much more likely that he would either give Julia into the care of a trusted fellow wizard, or make her a ward of the wizarding school.

[Minitroll]

Julia is just Julia, and if she does have a gaurdian, she'd probably woo them into not stopping her.

[grimbold]

personally i dont view it as plot crucial
julia was a 1 time character IMO
but i think that as a 16 year old she is treated as an adult and in charge of herself

[LuPuWei]

I doubt Eugene would want to make Roy become Julia's guardian. We already know the low esteem in which he holds Roy's chosen profession. Would he really want the "dumb fighter" being responsible for the daughter he sees as the family's true hope? I doubt it. Besides, he's passed the blood oath on to Roy - he knows Roy can't hang around and make sure Julia gets to school on time, doesn't stay out late with her friends, etc.

Based on Roy's adventuring to take on Xykon, and Eugene's respect for wizardry, I think it much more likely that he would either give Julia into the care of a trusted fellow wizard, or make her a ward of the wizarding school.

But then again, all of this would require Eugene to act like a responsible parent...


Julia is just Julia, and if she does have a gaurdian, she'd probably woo them into not stopping her.

:smalleek:

[NerfTW]

Why would Julia need a legal guardian?

Because she was 13 when Eugene died. Mature or not, Roy leaving his 13 year old sister without a guardian stretches suspension of disbelief a little far.

[true_shinken]

Because she was 13 when Eugene died. Mature or not, Roy leaving his 13 year old sister without a guardian stretches suspension of disbelief a little far.

This happens all the time, dude.

[NerfTW]

I was referring to what we've seen of Roy so far. Leaving a child (his sister, no less) without an adult to take care of her would be a MASSIVE change from the Roy we've seen over almost 800 strips. Especially given what we've seen of his reaction to Eric's death. Someone who still blames a lack of adult supervision for his baby brother's death wouldn't up and leave his baby sister without any.

[MReav]

She's probably hanging with Uncle Myrtok.

[Dr.Epic]

She's probably hanging with Uncle Myrtok.

Do we even know he's still alive? Eugene is dead and considering their both human, they were both in the same adventuring grouping, and we have no way of knowing if he was younger than Eugene, can we be sure he's still alive?

[MReav]

Do we even know he's still alive? Eugene is dead and considering their both human, they were both in the same adventuring grouping, and we have no way of knowing if he was younger than Eugene, can we be sure he's still alive?

I assumed that Eugene was at least ten years older than his human compatriots. And that his being a perpetually old man may have shortened his lifespan.

[theNater]

Because she was 13 when Eugene died. Mature or not, Roy leaving his 13 year old sister without a guardian stretches suspension of disbelief a little far.
True, but Roy is flexible enough to not worry about the formalities of a legal guardian as long as he knows she'll be safe. If she was living in the student dorms at the wizard school at the time, I don't think it'd bother him.

As an aside, do we know that Roy headed off after Xykon immediately after Eugene passed away? If he stuck around for another year or two to finish his own schooling first, that makes it much more reasonable that he wouldn't mind leaving Julia (technically) on her own.

[NerfTW]

Yes, but your post stated:

It seems likely she's got the intelligence to take care of herself(as a wizard), the charisma to convince a judge of that

No amount of charisma is going to make anyone agree that leaving a 13 year old girl to raise herself is a good idea.

But an actual legal guardian isn't needed, as it's very likely she was left in the care of the school or a relative/family friend.

[Dr.Epic]

I assumed that Eugene was at least ten years older than his human compatriots. And that his being a perpetually old man may have shortened his lifespan.

Again, how can we know this?

[Othniel Edden]

Julia might be a ward to someone at the colleges.

[Herald Alberich]

The rogue from Eugene's party is an elf, so it's not hard to believe he's still alive, at least.

[Dr.Epic]

Julia might be a ward to someone at the colleges.

Yeah, I think this would be the most likely scenario.

[MReav]

Again, how can we know this?

We don't, I'm working on an assumption. And that assumption is that Uncle Myrtok is in better health than Eugene, even before he died for the last time.

[Dr.Epic]

We don't, I'm working on an assumption. And that assumption is that Uncle Myrtok is in better health than Eugene, even before he died for the last time.

Still, it seems like an assumption to me with little-to-no actual facts to back it up. Sorry if I sound a bit rude for continuously bashing your theory, but to me it seems like another of those theories like "V and Pompey must be related because one's an elf...and the other is a half elf." I'm just looking for a little bit more evidence.

[MReav]

Still, it seems like an assumption to me with little-to-no actual facts to back it up. Sorry if I sound a bit rude for continuously bashing your theory, but to me it seems like another of those theories like "V and Pompey must be related because one's an elf...and the other is a half elf." I'm just looking for a little bit more evidence.

If and when Rich decides to to showcase the whereabouts of Julia's guardian, if any, all we have is speculation. And in the absence of any evidence of actual family members existing I think Julia's guardian being a longtime family friend that has yet to be confirmed dead is far more plausible than V and Pompey being related just because they both happen to be elves and exist in the strip.

[theNater]

No amount of charisma is going to make anyone agree that leaving a 13 year old girl to raise herself is a good idea.
What raising still needs to be done? If she's financially secure enough to feed and shelter herself, emotionally mature enough to make reasonable decisions with an eye to the long-term, and intellectually competent enough to understand her rights and responsibilities, why shouldn't she take care of herself?

But an actual legal guardian isn't needed, as it's very likely she was left in the care of the school or a relative/family friend.
Whether or not she needs a legal guardian depends on just how Cliffport law handles such things. Her legal guardian would be the person who controls her access to her money(can she have a bank account in her own name?), decides on whether she can go on extended school outings(those permission forms need to be signed by somebody, can she sign for herself?), makes major medical decisions(if she acquires a medical condition with multiple treatment options, each with their own advantages and drawbacks, can she decide which one is used?), and so on. Cliffport might be willing to wing it on each case, but many of the societies it superficially resembles like to know in advance who's going to be making those kinds of decisions.

[Kaytara]

:elan: :"This is a pseudo-Medieval world that has a lot of anachronisms. Why would there even BE legal guardians?

I mean, where are you going to get people of the "sad orphan who grew up on the streets or in the woods" backstory if you have legal guardians?

Think of the DRAHMA, people!"

[Themrys]

:elan: :"This is a pseudo-Medieval world that has a lot of anachronisms. Why would there even BE legal guardians?

I mean, where are you going to get people of the "sad orphan who grew up on the streets or in the woods" backstory if you have legal guardians?

Think of the DRAHMA, people!"

Valid argument, that.

I guess Roy is Julias legal guardian (since Eugene didn't bother to make arrangements for something else), and the summer holidays of the wizard school will start at exactly that moment when most drama arises from the neccessity that Roy leaves the OotS to take care of his little sister.


That, or Julia has to spend the summer with a fighter aunt and uncle who hate wizards. :smallbiggrin:

[archon_huskie]

Isn't Julia a level 3 wizard already, and isn't it confirmed that she didn't bar necromacy as a school. I suggest that in a world with speak with dead, Julia does not need a guardian because she still has her parents.


Just not physically.

[theNater]

:elan: :"This is a pseudo-Medieval world that has a lot of anachronisms. Why would there even BE legal guardians?

I mean, where are you going to get people of the "sad orphan who grew up on the streets or in the woods" backstory if you have legal guardians?

Think of the DRAHMA, people!"
Different regions will provide for different backstories. The police in Cliffport do paperwork (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0387.html), which suggests that the city's ruling powers like to keep track of things; wanting to keep track of who's in charge in cases like Julia's wouldn't be surprising.

Greysky City, on the other hand, seems likely to produce innumerable sad orphans from the streets. The Empire of Blood as well, according to V (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0764.html). Making it unlikely in Cliffport doesn't make it unlikely everywhere.

Isn't Julia a level 3 wizard already, and isn't it confirmed that she didn't bar necromacy as a school. I suggest that in a world with speak with dead, Julia does not need a guardian because she still has her parents.


Just not physically.
We know Cliffport doesn't accept magically produced evidence at trial (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0363.html); why would they accept magically produced results in other bureaucratic situations?

[archon_huskie]

With skills in forgery, Julia could still get by.:smallbiggrin:

[Sylthia]

Although forgery would be a cross-class skill for her.

[archon_huskie]

Although forgery would be a cross-class skill for her.

But Cross-class skills are the key to happy and fulfilling life!:elan:

ie: That does not stop her from having them!

[Sylthia]

True, but she'd only be able to be able to have 3 points in there by level 3.

[theNater]

With skills in forgery, Julia could still get by.:smallbiggrin:
What, exactly, would she be forging? Eugene's signature is pretty useless now that he's dead.

[CletusMusashi]

They might not know he's dead.
Or she might have told them he got better.

[theNater]

They might not know he's dead.
That seems like the sort of thing Roy would mention at some point. He's not the sort to go for the wacky hijinks solution when there's a legal solution that is just as easy and provides the same benefits.

Or she might have told them he got better.
Eugene died of old age (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0491.html). There's no coming back from that.

[Katana_Geldar]

I guess Roy is Julias legal guardian (since Eugene didn't bother to make arrangements for something else), and the summer holidays of the wizard school will start at exactly that moment when most drama arises from the neccessity that Roy leaves the OotS to take care of his little sister.


I think this is the most likely, as Roy was 24-25 when his father died.

[CletusMusashi]

I knew somebody was going to mention that old age thing. The thing is, though, to us Eugene Greenhilt is a major focus of every panel he appears in. But the teachers aren't reading those panels like we are. Eugene's life and death are pretty much off-camera to them. It's not that implausible for a man in his 70s to die of illness while still having decades of theoretical life left. Not true in Eugene's case, but that only makes it untrue, not unbelievable. Plus, Julia's charisma probably helps sell whatever story she's pitching.
I'm not closed to her guardian being either Roy or somebody we don't know. Just saying that forging her way to emancipation probably isn't all that hard either. As long as she isn't making trouble and the fees all get paid, the school probably isn't worrying about it.

[theNater]

I knew somebody was going to mention that old age thing. The thing is, though, to us Eugene Greenhilt is a major focus of every panel he appears in. But the teachers aren't reading those panels like we are. Eugene's life and death are pretty much off-camera to them. It's not that implausible for a man in his 70s to die of illness while still having decades of theoretical life left. Not true in Eugene's case, but that only makes it untrue, not unbelievable. Plus, Julia's charisma probably helps sell whatever story she's pitching.
This holds up fine, unless Roy told anyone at any point that Eugene died of old age. Which seems like the kind of thing he'd do. Possibly while arranging the funeral.

I'm not closed to her guardian being either Roy or somebody we don't know. Just saying that forging her way to emancipation probably isn't all that hard either. As long as she isn't making trouble and the fees all get paid, the school probably isn't worrying about it.
Forging her way to emancipation may well be manageable. But it wouldn't be any easier than becoming legally emancipated, or having a guardian of her choice. Given that those options provide all or most of the same benefits(respectively), and engaging in forgery runs the risk of being caught and punished, what is the advantage of the forgery plan?

[CletusMusashi]

Only that it entertains me more. It seems like more interesting story telling if non-lawful characters occasionally make decisions outside of the lawful box.
Plus it gets Roy off the hook, so the question of why we never hear anything about him checking in on her is taken care of.
Actually, even if Roy was her guardian at first, there's a good chance that changed while he was missing in action for so long. He may have missed an important check-in or two with school officials due to extreme deadness.

[theNater]

Only that it entertains me more. It seems like more interesting story telling if non-lawful characters occasionally make decisions outside of the lawful box.
But it's not just Julia's decision. Roy would almost certainly have had a hand in it. His lawful and her neutral are going to average out somewhere on the lawful side of things.

Plus it gets Roy off the hook, so the question of why we never hear anything about him checking in on her is taken care of.
Actually, even if Roy was her guardian at first, there's a good chance that changed while he was missing in action for so long. He may have missed an important check-in or two with school officials due to extreme deadness.
Even while alive, Roy wouldn't have made a great choice for legal guardian. Sheer distance would have made getting hold of him awkward.

[Sylthia]

Wouldn't a significant portion of the students have their parents be far off, since it's a boarding school? Also they probably have quite a few mages capable of a sending or teleport spell if need be.

[theNater]

Wouldn't a significant portion of the students have their parents be far off, since it's a boarding school? Also they probably have quite a few mages capable of a sending or teleport spell if need be.
Probably. It wouldn't be unmanageably awkward, but having the responsible party be in town would be more convenient.

Roy would be a good choice, but not a great choice.