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Adamantrue
2011-02-11, 12:44 PM
Pandourius was a renown Mage that was seeking a way to improved the quality of life, and remove the fear of death. In what was nearly the crowning achievement of his life, he instead created a Flesh Golem that broke loose, and blazed a path of gore & destruction across several continents.

Pandourius sold nearly all his worldly possessions to have Amend created. Amend, a Warforged designed specifically and solely to hunt down and destroy the abomination, has accompanied Pandourius for nearly 5 years, observing the creatures handiwork, but has yet to see the golem in the flesh.

For story purposes, I need to figure out the appropriate 8th level stats for Amend, with at least an idea how to continue his progression. I'm open to a little bit of play with the rules (within reason), such as a version of the Warforged Feat Shocking Fist that instead deals fire damage, or creating/substituting ACFs.

Finally, Amend and Pandourius hail from a greco-roman style culture, somewhat more advanced through magic. I don't mention this to limit options, so much as to suggest them.

25 Point Buy, Standard WBL.

Early thoughts: Several levels of Ranger seems like it could be an easy choice, fitting the flavor and giving some valuable abilities. Problems include simple Feat selection (subbing out Endurance makes sense), an Animal Companion (maybe a Complete Champion substitution would work), and...well, no real reason to pick up a 2nd Favored Enemy.

Warforged Fighter would be nice, as I'd enjoy the d12 HD and Battle-Hardened ability. But I don't know if I could handle the skill situation with the role.

What other ideas should I consider?

Person_Man
2011-02-11, 01:07 PM
With the exception of the Immunity to Magic and Construct Traits, Flesh Golemns seem fairly easy to kill. 79 hp, 18 AC (8 touch), DR 5/adamantine, and a couple pathetic natural attacks. Pretty much any ECL 8 build with full BAB and a decent damage combo should be able to one shot it.

Adamantrue
2011-02-11, 03:22 PM
If it was just a Flesh Golem, sure. Without tipping my hand concerning the plot too much, this thing has taken a few cues from Savage Species, and has begun taking levels in Wizard. Its eventual goal involves creating a whole race of Flesh Golems, from parts of those he's been terrorizing.

There will also be specialized things based on the Elite Opponents (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/eo/20040904a) article, and such.

So, I'd like something a little more specialized available.

Waker
2011-02-11, 03:26 PM
It's not a great suggestion, but you could consider the Warforged Paladin variant from Races of Eberron. Trades in Smite Evil for Smite Construct.
Or the Rogue ACF Penetrating Strike from Dungeonscape. It allows you to deal half your sneak attack damage to creatures immune to sneak attack, like constructs and undead.

Person_Man
2011-02-11, 04:08 PM
I'm confused. Is Amend an NPC, or is he your Gary Sue DMPC, or is he going to be a player that you're helping out by suggesting a character custom made to take down your BBEG?

Kansaschaser
2011-02-11, 04:14 PM
Scout 4 / Ranger 4

Take Swift Hunter and Improved Skirmish. You now have full Favored Enemy and Skirmish (plus more skirmish with Improved Skirmish). As long as you select Constructs as one of your favored enemies, you can still add your skirmish damage to constructs.

With the Scout and Ranger's skill selection, you should be a very good hunter. Excellent for tracking.

Adamantrue
2011-02-11, 04:51 PM
I'm confused. Is Amend an NPC, or is he your Gary Sue DMPC, or is he going to be a player that you're helping out by suggesting a character custom made to take down your BBEG? I want to have a series of PCs for my Players to choose from, as not all of us have time for in-depth Character Creation. Also, a few of my Players prefer I make their characters, as they seem to be a better fit for the worlds & stories.
Scout 4 / Ranger 4

Take Swift Hunter and Improved Skirmish. You now have full Favored Enemy and Skirmish (plus more skirmish with Improved Skirmish). As long as you select Constructs as one of your favored enemies, you can still add your skirmish damage to constructs.

With the Scout and Ranger's skill selection, you should be a very good hunter. Excellent for tracking. Scout/Ranger seems nice, except for the Animal Companion/Endurance Feat/Favored Enemy issue I mentioned earlier. Trading out Endurance for a Warforged Feat would seem fair, and Spiritual Guide (Complete Champion) for Animal Companion can work. The lack of need for an additional Favored Enemy makes for a waste, though.

What makes it possible to use Skirmish to Constructs? Is there a Substitution level involved somewhere?

(That actually wouldn't be a bad trade for an additional Favored Enemy, though I'm not sure about the balance).
It's not a great suggestion, but you could consider the Warforged Paladin variant from Races of Eberron. Trades in Smite Evil for Smite Construct.
Or the Rogue ACF Penetrating Strike from Dungeonscape. It allows you to deal half your sneak attack damage to creatures immune to sneak attack, like constructs and undead. Those wouldn't work too badly, and actually comes at the fluff from an interesting direction. Having been burned by the Flesh Golem, acquiring a Paladin would be an interesting insurance policy on Pandourius's part. Something to consider, at the very least.

MeeposFire
2011-02-11, 05:02 PM
Well you get an additional favored enemy yes, but more importantly you also improve your older favored enemy at the same time so it is still good.

Adamantrue
2011-02-11, 05:56 PM
Hmm...while researching Paladin options, I came across Razing Strike (Complete Adventurer)...

Its a little too melee-centric (without the Hit Points to support it), but what about Duskblade/Rogue, with Razing Strike? I could see taking 1st level in Rogue, and the next 7 in Duskblade.

Or perhaps Scout, and letting Skirmish dice apply to Razing Strike.

Only problem is that none of those options has access to Survival as a Class Skill, and as such probably can't really use the Track Feat well. I do have a Houserule that you can trade in 2 Class Skills to gain a new one, so they all could still be an option.

Kansaschaser
2011-02-11, 05:59 PM
What makes it possible to use Skirmish to Constructs? Is there a Substitution level involved somewhere?

The Swift Hunter Feat.

LOTRfan
2011-02-11, 06:00 PM
I suggest the Construct Lock feat from Races of EBerron. It allows you to stun them, and your innate intelligence of construct physiology allows you to deal extra damage to them.

Adamantrue
2011-02-11, 06:02 PM
Swift Hunter. Ah...that little bit at the end. I overlooked that, just started tuning out after the example. Thanks.

I'm not sure about Construct Lock. It has potential, but I never like relying on Critical Hits for part of a build. Its either a major focus, or not at all.

Adamantrue
2011-02-12, 10:33 AM
I think I'm going to go with Wilderness Rogue 1/Duskblade 7. It isn't a bad option, especially with Razing Strike in the mix. I might be better off going Wilderness Rogue 3/Duskblade 5, but I like the image of the Heavy Shield. Reminds me of the Spartan Soldier, which goes with the greco-roman theme.

Ability Scores after Point Buy, Racial & Level Adjustments will go Str 10, Dex 14, Con 18, Int 14, Wis 10, Cha 6.

Feats...I'm thinking Track, Combat Casting (from Duskblade), Shielded Casting, and Razing Strike. This isn't overly focused on Construct-Smiting, opening up more utility options as a Scout/Tracker and Front-Line Fighter instead of a mere 1-Trick Pony.

With the Spartan Theme, the Shortspear and Javelin seems to be the best choices for Weapons. I should probably pick up Agile Shield Fighter (and all the Prerequisites) as we move along, but I can't justify the Flaws in order to grab some by 8th.

This sound like a bad approach?

mootoall
2011-02-12, 11:44 AM
I still think ye-olde Swift Hunter build will serve you better. Both ranged rangers and TWF rangers have the extra hits to make skirmish damage worth it on any enemy, and having undead, constructs, plants and oozes as favored enemies allows you to crit/skirmish them. Mobility: It's a good thing.

Cog
2011-02-12, 01:08 PM
I still think ye-olde Swift Hunter build will serve you better. Both ranged rangers and TWF rangers have the extra hits to make skirmish damage worth it on any enemy, and having undead, constructs, plants and oozes as favored enemies allows you to crit/skirmish them. Mobility: It's a good thing.
Additionally, TWF opens up Spinning Halberd for you. It's an extra attack to get your skirmish off with, but keeps the benefits of two-handed fighting.

Adamantrue
2011-02-13, 07:48 AM
An interesting compromise...

According to one of the old Crystal Keep Indexes, there was a Paladin Variant called Hunter of Fiends, that substituted out Smite Evil (and some Skill swaps) for Track and a single Favored Enemy (in that case, Evil Outsiders), with a scaling bonus.

If I were to go back to the Paladin idea that was mentioned, and use that Variant as a basis with the exception of choosing Constructs (also subbing in some Warforged Paladin options, and the Divine Spirit option from Dungeonscape), and modify Swift Hunter to let the Paladin and Scout levels stack for the purposes of Skirmish and this version of Favored Enemy, as well as being able to use Skirmish against them...

Yeah...that could work out thematically well. I get that Spartan Warrior look, the Swift Hunter synergy still works, there is still the focus and flavor I want for game purposes, and there isn't any waste.

Did I explain that clearly enough?

Waker
2011-02-13, 12:50 PM
It's workable. Just remember that a scout can't wear medium or heavy armor or they lose the ability to skirmish. I say this because as a Warforged Paladin, there is a fair chance that you'll be heavily armored.

Adamantrue
2011-02-13, 03:05 PM
I usually don't go any higher than Mithral Body anyways. I probably should, but I tend to have reasons not to. For instance, even if Skirmish worked in Medium or Heavy Armor, I couldn't handle the Movement penalty on a character that is supposed to be chasing something down. Nothing would be worse than finally tracking down your foe, only to not be able to keep up with it.

Truth be told, I'm thinking this might be better served with Fighter than with Scout. I have a Homebrew variant for this setting called the Spartan, that trades Tower Shield & Heavy Armor Proficiency for Shield Specialization & Improved Shield Bash.

Grabbing 2 levels of that, as well as maybe Homebrewing a Feat that lets levels stack for one purpose or another could work well here. Say, letting their levels stack for the purpose of qualifying for Fighter Feats & Favored Enemy, and letting them freely Multiclass in and out of...this thing that began as the Paladin Class.