[3.5 Base Class]The Mindforger-PEACH

[Pyromancer999]

Background- 2nd in a series of specialized psionic manifesters, one for each discipline.

The Mind Forger

When most of those who know psionics and its ability to create things think of a class that defines this concept, they think of the Shaper. However, those who know more about psionics and its ability to create think of the Mind Forger. Mind Forgers are naturals at creation, often creating things with naught but a stray thought. These beings can create almost anything when they desire when they have practiced their powers, creating objects, constructs, and even life itself at the height of their power.

HD: d6
Skill points: 2 + Int mod (4 + Int mod x 4 at first level)
Skills:Bluff (Cha), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Disguise (Cha), Knowledge (all skills, taken individually) (Int), Profession (Wis), Psicraft(Int), and Use Psionic Device* (Cha)

The Mind Forger
{table=head]Level|Base Attack <br> Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special |Power <br> Points/ <br> Day | Powers <br> Known| Maximum <br> Power <br> Level <br> Known

1st|
+0|
+0|
+0|
+2|Psicrystal, Mindcrafter, Improved Construction |3|2|1st

2nd|
+1|
+0|
+0|
+3|Personal Space, Psi-construct|5|3|1st

3rd|
+2|
+1|
+1|
+3|Ecto-Missile 1d8|10|5|2nd

4th|
+3|
+1|
+1|
+4|Living Construct, Improved Craftsmanship|16|6|2nd

5th|
+3|
+1|
+1|
+4|Ecto-Missile 2d8|24|8|3rd

6th|
+4|
+2|
+2|
+5|Improved Craftsmanship |33|9|3rd

7th|
+5|
+2|
+2|
+5|Ecto-Missile 3d8|44|11|4th

8th|
+6|
+2|
+2|
+6|Breathing Construct, Improved Craftsmanship|56|12|4th

9th|
+6|
+3|
+3|
+6|Ecto-Missile 4d8|70|14|5th

10th|
+7|
+3|
+3|
+7|Improved Craftsmanship|85|15|5th

11th|
+8|
+3|
+3|
+7|Ecto-Missile 5d8|102|17|6th

12th|
+9|
+4|
+4|
+8|Pseudo-life,Improved Craftsmanship |120|18|6th

13th|
+9|
+4|
+4|
+8|Improved Craftsmanship, Ecto-Missile 6d8|140|20|7th

14th|
+10|
+4|
+4|
+9|Improved Craftsmanship |161|21|7th

15th|
+11|
+5|
+5|
+9|Ecto-Missile 7d8|184|23|8th

16th|
+12|
+5|
+5|
+10|Lifemaker, Improved Craftsmanship|208|24|8th

17th|
+12|
+5|
+5|
+10|Ecto-Missile 8d8|234|26|9th

18th|
+13|
+6|
+6|
+11|Improved Craftsmanship |261|27|9th

19th|
+14|
+6|
+6|
+11|Ecto-Missile 9d8|289|29|9th

20th|
+15|
+6|
+6|
+12|Living Genesis, Improved Craftsmanship|318|30|9th[/table]

Class Features

Armor and Weapon Proficiencies: Mind Forgers are proficient with all simple weapons. Mind Forgers are not proficient with any armor nor shield unless created by the Mindcrafter class feature.

Power Points/Day: A Mind Forger's Power Points Per Day are as on the table above.

Powers Known: The Mind Forger begins play knowing two powers of the player's choice, one of which must be Astral Construct. The Mind Forger may choose any power of the Metacreativity discipline when choosing powers. However, the Bio-Sculptor may never learn powers from other disciplines unless he has a separate psionic class that learns them.

Mindcrafter: The Mind Forger knows how to create objects and materials. He gains a pool of materials he can make, with it holding a number of cubic feet of material equal to 4 x the Mind Forger's class level + the Mind forger's Int modifier. He may use this to create objects without moving parts as per the Creation(Minor and Major) powers, except that vegetable matter is used at a 1:1 cubic foot basis, and obejcts normally made out of metal on a 2:1 cubic feet basis. The Mind Forger may add to this pool by expending power points on a 1 power point: 1 cubic foot basis. Metal objects are made out of ectoplasm. This cannot be used to create poison or similarly harmful organic vegetable materials. Objects created this way last 1 hour per level.

Improved Construction: The Mind Forger knows how to create a better class of Astral Construct. He may learn templated constructs as powers. Templated Constructs are the same as normal Astral Constructs, except that they have one template applied to them(of the Mind Forger's choice), and the cost to manifest a Templated Construct is the same as an Astral Construct of level equal to the Astral Construct's level + the Template's CR bonus(ex. A Level 3 Dark Construct(Astral Construct with the Dark Template) would cost the same as a normal Level 4 Astral Construct, because 3rd level Astral Construct + a +1 bonus to CR = 4). Each type of Templated Construct is learned as a separate power. Templated Construct powers may not make up more than 1/3 the powers known by the Mind Forger.

Personal Space:At 2nd level, the Mind Forger's creation abilities have grown to the point where he or she is able to create a personal plane of existence, which he and 1 person per point of Int modifier at a time may travel to. He may create this plane to operate as he wishes, up to the point of controlling the terrain and being able to erect buildings at will. However, he may not alter the plane to give him an advantage in combat in any other respect than making certain spaces difficult terrain and deciding where bodies of water and similar terrain features are. The length and width of the terrain's dimension are equal to his class level squared x 100. Time passes the same as on the Material Plane, and otherwise, all traits are under control of the Mind Forger.

Psi-Construct: The Mind Forger's psicrystal's mind breaks free and draws upon its creator's powers to create a body made of ectoplasm. The psicrystal is now an Astral Construct, and is treated as having levels in the Astral Construct monster class equal to 1/2 the Mindforger's Class levels.

Ecto-Missile: At 3rd level, the Mind Forger can somtimes focus their mind enough to create damaging ectoplasm and fling it at their enemies. As a standard action, the Mindforger may expend their psionic focus and fling ectoplasm at an enemy within 30 ft as a ranged touch attack, dealing 1d8 damage. This damage increases by 1d8 at 5th level, and increases an additional 1d8 every two levels after.

Improved Craftsmanship: At 4th level, and every two levels after, the Mind Forger learns how to create things in new ways with his Mindcrafter ability, selecting one thing from the list below each time this class feature is gained:

Alternately Damaging: Choose one type of damage. Any weapons created with Mindcrafter can deal this type of damage instead of the type of damage it normally deals.

Crafted Construct: You may now craft Astral Constructs with your material pool, using 1 cubic foot of material per 1 power point it costs, but constructs created this way have the special abilities from the Astral Construct menu of a construct 1 level lower, to the point of having no special abilities.

Improved Materials: Choose one type of material. You may now create objects of that type of material, and all attacks made with it are treated as such for bypassing damage reduction. This may be selected multiple times.

Improved Constructs: You may now apply Improved Craftsmanship benefits to Astral Constructs.

Menu Enhancement: Choose one special ability from the Astral Construct Menu A. You may create objects so that, depending upon the ability, the object or the wielder gain the benefit of that ability, by expending 2 power points. This ability may be selected multiple times, with access to Menu B being granted after two choices from Menu A are chosen, and Menu C after two choices from Menu B are chosen and so on. Menu B options cost 4 power points, and Menu C options 6 power points.

Poisonous Creation: You may now use Mindcrafter to create poison, using 2 cubic feet of material per ounce of poison, and five times that should the poison be rare. The poison can have a DC of up to 5 + the Mindforger's class level.


Living Construct: The Mind Forger starts to learn how to give life to his creations. His Astral Constructs now have the Living Construct type, and begin to live longer, lasting an addtional amount of rounds equal to 1 + the Mind Forger's Int modifier. Astral Constructs manifested begin to look like they are breathing.

Breathing Construct: The Mind Forger learns how to breathe even more life into his Astral Constructs. The Mind Forger chooses two types besides Construct or Undead. By expending 3 additional points when manifesting an Astral Construct, he may change the construct's type to one of those two types, and the bonus time from Living Construct doubles. Astral Constructs manifested using this enhancement begin to look somewhat organic.

Pseudo-Life: The Mind Forger learns how to bring some Astral Constructs into a semi-permanent form of existence. By expending twice the amount of power points necessary to create the construct, the duration changes to "1 day/2 levels". Astral Constructs manifested this way look somewhat alive.

Lifemaker: The Mind Forger learns how to bring some Astral Constructs into permanents existence. By expending 100 xp per power point the Astral Construct requires to manifest, he may change the duration of the power to "Permanent". He may half the cost by creating the construct with no options from any of the Astral Construct Menus. He gains a pool of experience points for use with this ability equal to 100 x his level at this level and each level onward. These constructs appear to be made of flesh and bone.

Living Genesis: At 20th level, the Mind Forger may become a living embodiment of creation, for a while at least. For a number of rounds per day equal to his class level, he may make use of his Mindcrafter ability without making use of his materials pool. These rounds need not be consecutive, but must at least be spent in two round intervals.

Well, that's all for now. Please PEACH and comment.

[Dead_Jester]

Like the first one, this is looking good.

The only major issue I could see is the fact that you get 30 powers known of a single discipline. I know it could work, buy your going to end up with a lot of useless stuff. It worked with the bio-sculptor because you could use your power slots for other things, but this doesn't have any ability of the sort. How about letting them summon specific creatures (shapers are after all the psionic summoners) to replace power? You'd have to balance it, but it's just an idea.

[JKTrickster]

I can't comment on balance but I just want to say, I officially owe you one. I was wondering if I could ever do a psionic campaign based on each of the disciplines.


Thank you. :smallbiggrin:

[Pyromancer999]

Like the first one, this is looking good.

The only major issue I could see is the fact that you get 30 powers known of a single discipline. I know it could work, buy your going to end up with a lot of useless stuff. It worked with the bio-sculptor because you could use your power slots for other things, but this doesn't have any ability of the sort. How about letting them summon specific creatures (shapers are after all the psionic summoners) to replace power? You'd have to balance it, but it's just an idea.

I was actually thinking at one point that I could let the Mind Forger learn the different types of Astral Construct(see Complete Psionic) as individual powers instead. So, you'd learn Astral Construct for normal ones, then Ebony Stinger Construct as a separate one. The issue with letting them summon creatures is that actual summoning is more a Psychoportation thing. Mind Forgers and Shapers create the constructs. I'm also seeing if I can come up with some other kinds of constructs, including one special one that was abandoned in the Wizards forums long ago. May look at the Constructor PrC in the Mind's Eye for inspiration. Also, even without this, don't underestimate the Metacreativity Discipline. I once had a scary Shaper character who only used Metacreativity powers.


I can't comment on balance but I just want to say, I officially owe you one. I was wondering if I could ever do a psionic campaign based on each of the disciplines.


Thank you. :smallbiggrin:

No problem. I'm doing this because I was thinking a lot along the same lines, so I'm doing it for myself as much as anybody.:smallbiggrin:

[JKTrickster]

If you're interested in different Astral Constructs, I think this website (http://dsp-d20-srd.wikidot.com/) has some alternatives.

[Pyromancer999]

If you're interested in different Astral Constructs, I think this website (http://dsp-d20-srd.wikidot.com/) has some alternatives.

I've looked at that site before. It mainly has more things to do with constructs, but I may be able to work something out, now that I think of it. Thanks.

[Volthawk]

Personal Space appears to be unfinished. Also, you might want to specify if you can determine things like the plane's time trait or not.

[Pyromancer999]

Personal Space appears to be unfinished. Also, you might want to specify if you can determine things like the plane's time trait or not.

Didn't catch that. Thanks.

[Volthawk]

Didn't catch that. Thanks.

Um, you realise that letting the guy control time traits means they can make it Flowing Time with a long period of personal plane time meaning a short period of Material Plane time, and then have effectively unlimited time for the casters to chill, prepare spells and the like (I say "effectively" as the possible time can be negligible, like in the example, where 1 Material round=1 other plane year), so Wizard can adapt to any threats by porting in and changing spells, then coming back with pretty much no time passing?

[Pyromancer999]

Um, you realise that letting the guy control time traits means they can make it Flowing Time with a long period of personal plane time meaning a short period of Material Plane time, and then have effectively unlimited time for the casters to chill, prepare spells and the like (I say "effectively" as the possible time can be negligible, like in the example, where 1 Material round=1 other plane year), so Wizard can adapt to any threats by porting in and changing spells, then coming back with pretty much no time passing?

Ah, perhaps a max of 2 days there being 1 day on the Material Plane, then?

[Volthawk]

Ah, perhaps a max of 2 days there being 1 day on the Material Plane, then?

Eh, I think you shouldn't let the time trait be controlled, like how Psionic Genesis (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/genesis.htm) has it.

[Pyromancer999]

Eh, I think you shouldn't let the time trait be controlled, like how Psionic Genesis (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/genesis.htm) has it.

Other than the time, I don't really see much problem with it. Changed time to Material Plane's.

[JKTrickster]

Some general things:

If you're looking at the Ectopic Adept's alternative Astral Constructs, I would advise buffing them up a bit. As presented they aren't the same power level as normal Astral Constructs (besides maybe Ebony Stinger I guess).

At the same time, you can make an "Astral Construct" template that allows the Mindforger to make Astral Constructs of certain creatures he encounters.

But all of this focuses too much on the "summoner" aspect of the Shaper/Mindforger. Remember, the most important thing is creating things with your mind. There's a huge ravine? I'll just make a bridge! Need a copy of the key? I can make that too! The Mindforger goes beyond a pure summoner focus - arguably it has the biggest out of combat advantage of all the disciplines.

[Pyromancer999]

Some general things:

If you're looking at the Ectopic Adept's alternative Astral Constructs, I would advise buffing them up a bit. As presented they aren't the same power level as normal Astral Constructs (besides maybe Ebony Stinger I guess).

That's mainly what the Improved Craftsmanship is for.


At the same time, you can make an "Astral Construct" template that allows the Mindforger to make Astral Constructs of certain creatures he encounters.

Okay, that's definitely a good idea. I'll have to see if I can somehow fit that in without rocking the balance off too much. I'd probably just change the type to Construct and give the form abilities off the Astral Construct menus in exchange for some special attacks and/or qualities. Probably the simplest method would be to give it levels in the Astral Construct Monster class.


But all of this focuses too much on the "summoner" aspect of the Shaper/Mindforger. Remember, the most important thing is creating things with your mind. There's a huge ravine? I'll just make a bridge! Need a copy of the key? I can make that too! The Mindforger goes beyond a pure summoner focus - arguably it has the biggest out of combat advantage of all the disciplines.
That's true. However, if you think it's just good out of combat, it does fairly well in combat too.

[Person_Man]

My 2 cp:

Formatting needs to be cleaned up, especially in the table.
Abilities need types: (Ex), (Sp), (Su), (Psi).
Abilities need activation actions specified - presumably Standard or Full Round actions.
Abilities need a range. 10 feet per level is standard.
Definitely a high end Tier 1 class. Full manifesting with a boat load of extra abilities and 3/4 BAB. Not sure if that's your intent or not, but it's worth pointing out that player in a game world with this class would never play a Psychic Warrior (Tier 3) or a Psion (Tier 2).
If you're going to have a poison creation mechanism, you may wish to think work out the details more thoroughly. How many doses per day that you can make, what type, the Save DC, the Poison use special ability so that you don't accidentally kill yourself, etc. As written, at 4th level I can create gallons of Save or Death poison with a high Save DC. That seems very unbalanced.


Having said that, the concept of a "Maker" who can create increasingly complex things to fight with or to fight for him is a good one. My over all suggestion is to tone down a bit and work on the details.

[GideonRiddle]

So with Personal Space they can make the plane but can't get there without help...is that right?

Just curious.

[Pyromancer999]

My 2 cp:

Formatting needs to be cleaned up, especially in the table.

I've tried, but the table doesn't really improve, no matter how I work it.


Abilities need types: (Ex), (Sp), (Su), (Psi).

These are pretty much all (Psi)


Abilities need activation actions specified - presumably Standard or Full Round actions.

It's pretty safe to say that they're all Standard actions.


Abilities need a range. 10 feet per level is standard.

Really? Which ones?


Definitely a high end Tier 1 class. Full manifesting with a boat load of extra abilities and 3/4 BAB. Not sure if that's your intent or not, but it's worth pointing out that player in a game world with this class would never play a Psychic Warrior (Tier 3) or a Psion (Tier 2).

Here's the thing: It may have a 3/4 BAB and a boatload of abilities, but:

It has noticeably less powers and power points of a psion of equal level
Most abilities require more effort or expenditure of power points to activate these abilities, which often need a good amount to activate.
Important: It's limited to powers of the Metacreativity discipline. It can't even learn powers of other disciplines through Expanded Knowledge, or any other method other than multiclassing

It's pretty good at what it does, but is pretty much only able to create stuff. It does good at it's role, and can sort of cover a few other angles. This is why I'd place it in the high tier 3-low tier 2 range.


If you're going to have a poison creation mechanism, you may wish to think work out the details more thoroughly. How many doses per day that you can make, what type, the Save DC, the Poison use special ability so that you don't accidentally kill yourself, etc. As written, at 4th level I can create gallons of Save or Death poison with a high Save DC. That seems very unbalanced.

Yeah, I was sort of hesitant to include this one. Maybe they can only create 1 dose per 4 levels of the class, and can only make poisons with DCs of 5 + class level?
[QUOTE]
Having said that, the concept of a "Maker" who can create increasingly complex things to fight with or to fight for him is a good one. My over all suggestion is to tone down a bit and work on the details.

Agreed, perhaps it is a bit powerful, overall. Might tone down a couple things. Also, if no one has a problem with a 5/8 sort of progression, I might be able to tone down the BAB, which is pretty much fine for now.

[GideonRiddle]

So with Personal Space they can make the plane but can't get there without help...is that right?

Just curious.

[Pyromancer999]

My 2 cp:

Formatting needs to be cleaned up, especially in the table.

I've tried, but the table doesn't really improve, no matter how I work it.


Abilities need types: (Ex), (Sp), (Su), (Psi).

These are pretty much all (Psi)


Abilities need activation actions specified - presumably Standard or Full Round actions.

It's pretty safe to say that they're all Standard actions.


Abilities need a range. 10 feet per level is standard.

Really? Which ones?


Definitely a high end Tier 1 class. Full manifesting with a boat load of extra abilities and 3/4 BAB. Not sure if that's your intent or not, but it's worth pointing out that player in a game world with this class would never play a Psychic Warrior (Tier 3) or a Psion (Tier 2).

Here's the thing: It may have a 3/4 BAB and a boatload of abilities, but:

It has noticeably less powers and power points of a psion of equal level
Most abilities require more effort or expenditure of power points to activate these abilities, which often need a good amount to activate.
Important: It's limited to powers of the Metacreativity discipline. It can't even learn powers of other disciplines through Expanded Knowledge, or any other method other than multiclassing

It's pretty good at what it does, but is pretty much only able to create stuff. It does good at it's role, and can sort of cover a few other angles. This is why I'd place it in the high tier 3-low tier 2 range.


If you're going to have a poison creation mechanism, you may wish to think work out the details more thoroughly. How many doses per day that you can make, what type, the Save DC, the Poison use special ability so that you don't accidentally kill yourself, etc. As written, at 4th level I can create gallons of Save or Death poison with a high Save DC. That seems very unbalanced.

Yeah, I was sort of hesitant to include this one. Maybe they can only create 1 dose per 4 levels of the class, and can only make poisons with DCs of 5 + class level?
[QUOTE]
Having said that, the concept of a "Maker" who can create increasingly complex things to fight with or to fight for him is a good one. My over all suggestion is to tone down a bit and work on the details.

Agreed, perhaps it is a bit powerful, overall. Might tone down a couple things. Also, if no one has a problem with a 5/8 sort of progression, I might be able to tone down the BAB, which is pretty much fine for now.

Whoa, accidental double-post. Sorry, computer problems. Well, might as well make use of this post:


So with Personal Space they can make the plane but can't get there without help...is that right?

Just curious.

They can get there without help. They can't learn Psychoportation powers, so it'd be pretty unreasonable otherwise.

[JKTrickster]

Just as a question, why did you feel like giving each class a damage ability? After all I believe each discipline (beside maybe psychoportation) has powers that deal damage. Is this really necessary? In some cases I don't even think it matches the fluff (like for Bio-Sculptor?)

EDIT: Where is the Astral Construct Class?

[Pyromancer999]

Just as a question, why did you feel like giving each class a damage ability? After all I believe each discipline (beside maybe psychoportation) has powers that deal damage. Is this really necessary? In some cases I don't even think it matches the fluff (like for Bio-Sculptor?)

I gave each such an ability so far because Psychometabolism and Metacreativity, while alright in general combat, don't really have many ranged attacks. Trust me, the ones in the future will be far more fun.


EDIT: Where is the Astral Construct Class?

[JKTrickster]

As long as its more interesting, its fine I suppose :smallwink:

And I only see you quoting my question - post error?

[Pyromancer999]

And I only see you quoting my question - post error?

Oh! Forgot to answer that. It's on the Community Monster Classes thread.

[JKTrickster]

You should probably throw a link to it.

[Jarian]

Re: Formatting: You need to change all of those <br> tags to tags. The forum changes them back whenever you edit the post, so you'll need to save the table in a copy/paste.

Like so: [b]The Mind Forger
{table=head]Level|Base Attack [br] Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special |Power [br] Points/ [br] Day | Powers [br] Known| Maximum [br] Power [br] Level [br] Known

1st|
+0|
+0|
+0|
+2|Psicrystal, Mindcrafter |3|2|1st

2nd|
+1|
+0|
+0|
+3|Personal Space, Psi-construct|5|3|1st

3rd|
+2|
+1|
+1|
+3|Ecto-Missile 1d8|10|5|2nd

4th|
+3|
+1|
+1|
+4|Living Construct, Improved Craftsmanship|16|6|2nd

5th|
+3|
+1|
+1|
+4|Ecto-Missile 2d8|24|8|3rd

6th|
+4|
+2|
+2|
+5|Improved Craftsmanship |33|9|3rd

7th|
+5|
+2|
+2|
+5|Ecto-Missile 3d8|44|11|4th

8th|
+6|
+2|
+2|
+6|Breathing Construct, Improved Craftsmanship|56|12|4th

9th|
+6|
+3|
+3|
+6|Ecto-Missile 4d8|70|14|5th

10th|
+7|
+3|
+3|
+7|Improved Craftsmanship|85|15|5th

11th|
+8|
+3|
+3|
+7|Ecto-Missile 5d8|102|17|6th

12th|
+9|
+4|
+4|
+8|Pseudo-life,Improved Craftsmanship |120|18|6th

13th|
+9|
+4|
+4|
+8|Improved Craftsmanship, Ecto-Missile 6d8|140|20|7th

14th|
+10|
+4|
+4|
+9|Improved Craftsmanship |161|21|7th

15th|
+11|
+5|
+5|
+9|Ecto-Missile 7d8|184|23|8th

16th|
+12|
+5|
+5|
+10|Lifemaker, Improved Craftsmanship|208|24|8th

17th|
+12|
+5|
+5|
+10|Ecto-Missile 8d8|234|26|9th

18th|[center]+13/center]|
+6|
+6|
+11|Improved Craftsmanship |261|27|9th

19th|
+14|
+6|
+6|
+11|Ecto-Missile 9d8|289|29|9th

20th|
+15|
+6|
+6|
+12|Living Genesis, Improved Craftsmanship|318|30|9th[/table]

You should also consider removing the centering; the table won't parse that much formatting, so you end up with random center tags in there.

Aaaand formatting fixed, I think. Copy/paste that, removing excess center tags. Should clear up your formatting.

Edit 2: Ugh, dealing with break formatting is frustrating on this forum. Table breaks should actually be fixed now. Center tags are up to you if you want to remove them or not, but it'll get rid of the half-and-half center formatting you have going on right now.

[Pyromancer999]

Re: Formatting: You need to change all of those <br> tags to <br> tags. The forum changes them back whenever you edit the post, so you'll need to save the table in a copy/paste.

Like so: The Mind Forger
{table=head]Level|Base Attack <br> Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special |Power <br> Points/ <br> Day | Powers <br> Known| Maximum <br> Power <br> Level <br> Known

1st|
+0|
+0|
+0|
+2|Psicrystal, Mindcrafter |3|2|1st

2nd|
+1|
+0|
+0|
+3|Personal Space, Psi-construct|5|3|1st

3rd|
+2|
+1|
+1|
+3|Ecto-Missile 1d8|10|5|2nd

4th|
+3|
+1|
+1|
+4|Living Construct, Improved Craftsmanship|16|6|2nd

5th|
+3|
+1|
+1|
+4|Ecto-Missile 2d8|24|8|3rd

6th|
+4|
+2|
+2|
+5|Improved Craftsmanship |33|9|3rd

7th|
+5|
+2|
+2|
+5|Ecto-Missile 3d8|44|11|4th

8th|
+6|
+2|
+2|
+6|Breathing Construct, Improved Craftsmanship|56|12|4th

9th|
+6|
+3|
+3|
+6|Ecto-Missile 4d8|70|14|5th

10th|
+7|
+3|
+3|
+7|Improved Craftsmanship|85|15|5th

11th|
+8|
+3|
+3|
+7|Ecto-Missile 5d8|102|17|6th

12th|
+9|
+4|
+4|
+8|Pseudo-life,Improved Craftsmanship |120|18|6th

13th|
+9|
+4|
+4|
+8|Improved Craftsmanship, Ecto-Missile 6d8|140|20|7th

14th|
+10|
+4|
+4|
+9|Improved Craftsmanship |161|21|7th

15th|
+11|
+5|
+5|
+9|Ecto-Missile 7d8|184|23|8th

16th|
+12|
+5|
+5|
+10|Lifemaker, Improved Craftsmanship|208|24|8th

17th|
+12|
+5|
+5|
+10|Ecto-Missile 8d8|234|26|9th

18th|[center]+13/center]|
+6|
+6|
+11|Improved Craftsmanship |261|27|9th

19th|
+14|
+6|
+6|
+11|Ecto-Missile 9d8|289|29|9th

20th|
+15|
+6|
+6|
+12|Living Genesis, Improved Craftsmanship|318|30|9th[/table]

You should also consider removing the centering; the table won't parse that much formatting, so you end up with random center tags in there.

Aaaand formatting fixed, I think. Copy/paste that, removing excess center tags. Should clear up your formatting.

Edit 2: Ugh, dealing with break formatting is frustrating on this forum. Table breaks should actually be fixed now. Center tags are up to you if you want to remove them or not, but it'll get rid of the half-and-half center formatting you have going on right now.

Fixed, thanks. I think I might keep the centering as-is, as I sort of find things easier to read when they're spaced out.

[GideonRiddle]

So with Personal Space could he/she (with enough Int) grab the entire party (say 3) jump to his/her plane then jump out across a continent?

As in they need to travel to the Castle to meet the King which will be a 2 week trip, but the Mindforger goes "SHORTCUT!" and they are there in 2 min.


Also can he go to other planes from there?

Say MP->PP->Plane of Fire.

[Pyromancer999]

So with Personal Space could he/she (with enough Int) grab the entire party (say 3) jump to his/her plane then jump out across a continent?

As in they need to travel to the Castle to meet the King which will be a 2 week trip, but the Mindforger goes "SHORTCUT!" and they are there in 2 min.


Also can he go to other planes from there?

Say MP->PP->Plane of Fire.

Oh! I forgot to add that! You come out wherever you left the plane you were previously on, and can't travel to other planes from there.

[JKTrickster]

Doesn't the Personal Space ability run into the same issues as the Rope Trick spell? Even worse because there doesn't seem to be a limit for Personal Space...

[Pyromancer999]

Doesn't the Personal Space ability run into the same issues as the Rope Trick spell? Even worse because there doesn't seem to be a limit for Personal Space...

Could you explain?

[JKTrickster]

Every night when they rest, they can merely jump into the Personal Space and hide out for the night without fear of retribution. Essentially takes any risk out of certain campaigns.

[Pyromancer999]

Every night when they rest, they can merely jump into the Personal Space and hide out for the night without fear of retribution. Essentially takes any risk out of certain campaigns.

They might be safe, but there's no guarantee the rest of the part would be. This could lead to some interesting quests or side quests in your campaign.

[JKTrickster]

But they can bring their party along can't they?

Also noticed huge error: you don't specify their manifesting stat, or if they get bonus PP from a high manifesting stat.

[Pyromancer999]

But they can bring their party along can't they?

Up to their Int modifier people of their party. That's not necessarily going to cover everyone, especially at the lower levels.


Also noticed huge error: you don't specify their manifesting stat, or if they get bonus PP from a high manifesting stat.

Just assume it's Intelligence.

[JKTrickster]

Assuming its intelligence, there's no reason why it wouldn't cover the majority of the party. Maybe at lower levels yes, but there is on doubt that by level 7-10 a Mindforger and his/her party does not need to fear camping down in a dangerous area.

[Zaydos]

Finally read over the class (I like your work from what I've seen so I should have earlier) but I have to agree that personal space is rope trick but worse and actually would put it off till they could as a wizard get Mordenkainen's Magnificent Mansion or around that level as the class feature is more secure than any other spell (save Magnificent Mansion) and gives you control of internal terrain.

Ectopic Missile I'd reduce in power since it is currently more RAW damage than an eldritch blast by mid-high levels (even if worse in every other way) and not needed with Med BAB and the ability to wear armor (although to do so well might require loss of manifester levels).

Can I choose not to use the living construct ability? As the living construct subtype is intentionally constructed solely to nerf construct type. In addition what's their constructs' Con score if they use it?

[Pyromancer999]

Assuming its intelligence, there's no reason why it wouldn't cover the majority of the party. Maybe at lower levels yes, but there is on doubt that by level 7-10 a Mindforger and his/her party does not need to fear camping down in a dangerous area.

At those levels, parties usually don't need to fear that anyways, so it's not that much of a problem, if at all


Finally read over the class (I like your work from what I've seen so I should have earlier) but I have to agree that personal space is rope trick but worse and actually would put it off till they could as a wizard get Mordenkainen's Magnificent Mansion or around that level as the class feature is more secure than any other spell (save Magnificent Mansion) and gives you control of internal terrain.

See above


Ectopic Missile I'd reduce in power since it is currently more RAW damage than an eldritch blast by mid-high levels (even if worse in every other way) and not needed with Med BAB and the ability to wear armor (although to do so well might require loss of manifester levels).

They don't have the ability to wear armor. Also, if when I last checked is correct, it basically receives the same RAW damage as the Warlock, they just get it one level ahead of time. Also, what you have to consider is that they must spend their psionic focus in order to use it. So, it's not exactly as much of an at-will ability as Eldritch Blast is.


Can I choose not to use the living construct ability? As the living construct subtype is intentionally constructed solely to nerf construct type. In addition what's their constructs' Con score if they use it?
Hmm....didn't think of that.

[JKTrickster]

I just had a really interesting idea.

The Bio-Sculptor can add "forms" to his powers known, a very nice way to customize the class and give it a huge boost in versatility that makes up for the lack of powers.

Why not let Mindforgers apply Templates to Astral Constructs? Order the Templates by increases in CRs or by total ECL and figure out when they are accessible at what level. Mindforgers can only apply 1 template at a time, with multiple templates at higher levels.

Mindforgers can select certain templates in place of powers, and you can set certain limits if you would want.

This allows the same level of customization and offers a huge boost that is better than the "Living Construct" line, which really only makes them last longer.

[Pyromancer999]

I just had a really interesting idea.

The Bio-Sculptor can add "forms" to his powers known, a very nice way to customize the class and give it a huge boost in versatility that makes up for the lack of powers.

Why not let Mindforgers apply Templates to Astral Constructs? Order the Templates by increases in CRs or by total ECL and figure out when they are accessible at what level. Mindforgers can only apply 1 template at a time, with multiple templates at higher levels.

Mindforgers can select certain templates in place of powers, and you can set certain limits if you would want.

This allows the same level of customization and offers a huge boost that is better than the "Living Construct" line, which really only makes them last longer.

Interesting proposal. I'll think it over and see how it would work out.

[JKTrickster]

Oh okay, if you need help feel free to ask! Although I don't know all the templates out there, and probably some of them wouldn't make much sense (Dragonborn of Bahumut for example).

Actually, why not give them access to summon spells, but as Astral Constructs? Not sure how this will work....

[Pyromancer999]

Oh okay, if you need help feel free to ask! Although I don't know all the templates out there, and probably some of them wouldn't make much sense (Dragonborn of Bahumut for example).

I've never seen any LA on that, so I'm a bit iffy on that one. If I were to do a templated construct thing, I'd have the construction cost be equal to that of An Astral Construct of level equal to the construct's level + the CR boost to the template. So, a level 2 construct with the Half-Dragon template would have the same power point cost as a level 5 construct(2+3)


Actually, why not give them access to summon spells, but as Astral Constructs? Not sure how this will work....
It'd probably require a pretty complicated Astral Construct template. Also, it'd sort of infringe on the Transient Psyche.

[JKTrickster]

That makes sense. But what about templates that don't add CR? Would you allow those? I personally would because they still add a ton of variety.

Hmm that's true. But templates are more than versatile enough.

[Pyromancer999]

That makes sense. But what about templates that don't add CR? Would you allow those? I personally would because they still add a ton of variety.


Yes, I would, as if they're not powerful enough to add to the CR of a creature, they shouldn't have a significant effect on the Astral Construct.

[JKTrickster]

Do you still plan on adding those Ectopic Form feats?

Also there is a feat called Skin of the Constructs? Do you think that the Templated Constructs should have a special interaction with this feat? Or you could add that as a special ability?

The Poisonous Creation ability also needs more detail, like someone else said.

[Pyromancer999]

Do you still plan on adding those Ectopic Form feats?

Eh, right now I'm liking the templated constructs thing, but I suppose I could always add an option where could could get them as bonus feats.


Also there is a feat called Skin of the Constructs? Do you think that the Templated Constructs should have a special interaction with this feat? Or you could add that as a special ability?

I know of that feat. I'd probably say that there'd have to be a special feat for that, which has Skin of the Construct as a prereq.


The Poisonous Creation ability also needs more detail, like someone else said.
True, true.

[JKTrickster]

Eh, right now I'm liking the templated constructs thing, but I suppose I could always add an option where could could get them as bonus feats.
Oh I didn't say that you had to, I was just wondering if you were planning on it. I agree that the template is a better application since those Ectopic Forms are normally not that spectacular (and there are so few of them).




I know of that feat. I'd probably say that there'd have to be a special feat for that, which has Skin of the Construct as a prereq.
Hmm that sounds like an awesome idea! :smallbiggrin:

[Pyromancer999]

Oh I didn't say that you had to, I was just wondering if you were planning on it. I agree that the template is a better application since those Ectopic Forms are normally not that spectacular (and there are so few of them).

Actually, I was planning on adding them anyways, just not like the templated constructs. Ectopic Constructs can actually be very spectacular and amazing, though, just for the record.


Hmm that sounds like an awesome idea! :smallbiggrin:

Yeah. It would probably allow whoever takes that feat to get something from the construct's template.

[JKTrickster]

Actually, I was planning on adding them anyways, just not like the templated constructs. Ectopic Constructs can actually be very spectacular and amazing, though, just for the record.
Hmm what are you thinking of? Do you mean as bonus feats, powers, etc.?



Yeah. It would probably allow whoever takes that feat to get something from the construct's template.
Hmm well it would definitely need to allow more than one attribute/ability though, because it already has a feat prerequisite. Although would both Skin of the Construct and this new feat both stack? (e.g. Get one menu ability and one template ability from the same construct)

[Pyromancer999]

Hmm what are you thinking of? Do you mean as bonus feats, powers, etc.?

Bonus Feats.


Hmm well it would definitely need to allow more than one attribute/ability though, because it already has a feat prerequisite. Although would both Skin of the Construct and this new feat both stack? (e.g. Get one menu ability and one template ability from the same construct)

It'd probably be something like gain the template, but obviously it wouldn't last an hour and there'd be at least some restriction on which templates you could apply this to.

[JKTrickster]

And I right to assume that you'll eventually grant all of them, or will it be a choice among them.

Gaining the template...would that be too much? If its for a limited time probably not...

[Pyromancer999]

Gaining the template...would that be too much? If its for a limited time probably not...

It'd probably be only for 1 round per 1-2 levels.

[Pyromancer999]

Changes made:

-Capstone changed
-Templated Constructs added
-Poison-making ability elaborated upon