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SoHardToRegiste
2011-02-13, 02:53 AM
It is possible to do, in this order:
-Use Circle Magic to increase Caster Level to 40th
-Then add your Spell Power after Circle Magic is done to further increase your Caster Level beyond 40th

So in other words,

can Spell Power stack with Circle Magic to raise Caster Level beyond 40th?

Below is a description of Circle Magic and Spell Power as written in 3.5 Dungeon Master:

One of the effects of a Red Wizard's Circle Magic ability is:


Increase the Circle Leader's Caster Level by one for every circle bonus level expended (Maximum Caster Level 40th).


Spell Power: At 2nd level, a Red Wizard gains a bonus that increases his effective caster level for purposes of determining level-dependent spell variables and for caster level checks. The bonus starts at +1 and increases at higher levels, as shown on Table 6–15. This ability stacks with other spell power benefits that affect spells from the Red Wizard’s specialist school.

Note: the Table 6-15 shows that Spell Power is increased by +1 for every 2 Red Wizard levels, so Red Wizard level 10 would have Spell Power +5

Also, does Red Wizard Spell Power stack with Archmage Spell Power? I think the Spell Power from both prestige classes should stack only for the caster's specialization school, since that's what it says in my Spell Power quote, but not sure.

The Archmage prestige class can have up to Spell Power +5, one per Archmage level. So a character with 5 levels in Archmage can have Spell Power +5.

Is the following calculation correct?

If a character is an Evoker 5/Red Wizard 10/Archmage 5

Evoker 5: 5 Caster Levels
Red Wizard 10 with Spell Power +5: 15 Caster Levels
Archmage 5 with Spell Power +5: 10
= 30 Caster Levels when casting Evocation spells

or in other words, Evocation spells have a base Caster Level of 20 + 10 bonus Caster Levels from Spell Power +10

If this same Evoker used Circle Magic to boost his Caster Level to the max, would his final Caster Level for Evocation spells be:

40: This assumes Circle Magic stacks with nothing
50: This assumes Circle Magic stacks with Spell Power +10, which is the sum of the Spell Power from the Red Wiz and Archmage's prestige classes.

So my post can be summarized in these 2 questions

Does Circle Magic stack with Spell Power or any other ability that raises Caster Level?

Does the Red Wizard and Archmage's Spell Power stack for spells cast from the school of specialization?

Thanks for any info!

Endarire
2011-02-13, 08:31 PM
A Red Wizard's Spell Power applies to all schools. It stacks with all other sources of caster levels for spells cast that way. Even Archmage.

Urpriest
2011-02-13, 08:38 PM
This seems like a fairly clear case of the "you can apply benefits in whichever order is most beneficial" rule. Sounds like they would all stack.

Kerghan
2011-02-14, 03:52 AM
The Red Wizard's spell power ability only applies to your specialized school, but the Archmage spell power high arcana ability applies to all schools. So a Evoker 5/Red Wizard 10/Archmage 5 would have a caster level of 30 for evocation spells, and a caster level 25 for all other schools if you had chosen spell power all five levels of Archmage. Not as potent as the 3.0 version, but then again it's still nice.

As far as Circle Magic goes since that class specializes in raising caster level beyond your normal means, but specifically points out that the maximum caster level is 40, then that's about as good as you could get. Mostly a DM's discretion sort of thing, and maybe the main RAW answers that question, but I'm not completely sure.

SoHardToRegiste
2011-02-14, 05:23 PM
Thanks for sharing your knowledge guys.

About the Red Wizard's Spell Power boosting one school or all schools:

I've searched a bit for this topic on the internet, and opinions are clearly divided due to the poor wording of the ability.

But near the end of a discussion others had several years ago, a spokesperson for Wizards of the Coast said that the Red Wizard's Spell Power boosts spells from all of his schools.



Response (Sam S.) 01/12/2007 08:16 AM
Hi there Dwayne,

This ability works on all spells the Red Wizard can cast, not just its specialist school spells.


Take Care and Good Gaming! :)

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Also, do you guys think that Spell Power also boosts Caster Level for Divine Spells? The Archmage Spell Power Entry



Spell Power: This ability increases the archmage’s effective caster level by +1 (for purposes of determining level-dependent spell variables such as damage dice or range, and caster level checks only). This ability costs one 5th-level spell slot.

Does not make the distinction between Divine or Arcane spells. So maybe Spell Power can affect Divine Spells. But flavor-wise, since Archmage is all about reaching the pinnacle of Arcane Power, I'm not sure if it's supposed to boost Divine Spells. But maybe if we go by RAW it's possible.

Since both the Archmage and the Red Wizard have a class feature with EXACTLY the same name (Spell Power), it would be much simpler if WoTC gave them the same effect and specified whether they stacked or not. On top of that, Red Wizard and Archmage were both introduced in the same book (3.0 Dungeon Master)

On the other hand, that same Dungeon Master book specified that Assassin's sneak attacks stacked with rogue's sneak attacks.

Keld Denar
2011-02-14, 06:16 PM
Spell power is spell power is spell power. If its a spell, it benefits from spell power. Arcane/Divine doesn't matter. An Orange IWIN Stone would boost your CL of both arcane and divine spells, assuming you had both. A Strand of Prayer Beads (Bead of Karma) would give you +4 CLs with both arcane and divine spells when you activate it.

Assuming you could qualify for AM and still have divine spells (such as through Ur-Priest/MysticTheurge shanananananananigans), spell power would indeed improve both.

Note, you talk about Evokers and CL shananananananigans...Evocation is the one school of magic that benefits the LEAST from CL stacking. Most Evocations are blasts, and most of those blasts have CL limits. The ones that don't aren't accessable to wizards (Wings of Flurry). That means all you are getting out of the deal is extra range, duration, and overcoming SR checks. Other schools, in particular Necromancy and Conjouration derive some pretty sweet jazz, and Abjuration has the uncapped Maw of Chaos, one of the best AoO blast spells printed. Just FYI.

Kerghan
2011-02-16, 01:36 AM
The fact that you have to sack two other schools just to be more powerful with your wizard specialized school, and that they also receive an ability called specialist defense:

Specialist Defense: A Red Wizard gains a bonus on saving throws against spells from his specialist school. This bonus starts at +1 and increases at higher levels, as shown on Table 6–15.

Why have all these flavorful abilities and mechanics if the Red Wizard's version of spell power applied to all schools?

Spell Power: At 2nd level, a Red Wizard gains a bonus that increases his effective caster level for purposes of determining level-dependent spell variables and for caster level checks. The bonus starts at +1 and increases at higher levels, as shown on
Table 6–15. This ability stacks with other spell power benefits that affect spells from the Red Wizard’s specialist school.

An example from 3.0 comes from the Epic Level Handbook referring to a prebuild Faerun epic level character named Szass Tam (Male Lich Necromancer 10/Red Wizard 17/Archmage 5). He has two distinctly marked abilities called spell power +2, and spell power (necromancy) +8. Check it out for yourselves. It isn't 3.5, but it is a clear explanation as to the issue. Then again, ultimately, dm's discretion.