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Kyrthain
2011-02-13, 05:46 PM
I'm planning out a character for a rather high-level, high-silliness one-shot. (level 15 gestalt). He will be named Dave the Fantastic, Dragon Puncher.

I've decided to take 10 levels of this PrC (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7959037&postcount=4)

On the other side, I'm planning on 10 levels of warblade, capped off with 5 levels of this PrC (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=169940) (Follower of the third, specifically)

The idea of the character is that he is way over the top in his awesome manliness. His strategy begins by jumping 200 feet off of his zeppelin while on fire, then hitting some poor sap with a hammer.

The problem is that I have no idea what to fill the first 5 levels on one side with. My maneuvers should provide me with plenty of options for my actions, so I'm looking for something that isn't action heavy. What should I take?

(Obviously, homebrew is fine, I'll just need to run it past my dm)

Jair Barik
2011-02-13, 05:53 PM
For giggles I want to say Dragon disciple.

He learnt much from the Dragons. Most important of all he learned how to punch them

Kyrthain
2011-02-13, 05:56 PM
Problem is, that's a PrC, so there's no way I'm going to be able to fit it in the first 5 levels. Also, my prejudice against daily limits makes me hesitant to make give him casting

Tael
2011-02-13, 06:04 PM
He should forsake weapons, going into battle with nothing but his fighting spirit! (And his ability to intimidate the universe into doing what he wants..:smallbiggrin:) But seriously that class is ridiculous.

Kyrthain
2011-02-13, 06:07 PM
I'm planning on asking my Dm if I can re-fluff my massive minotaur greathammer as just his epic punches

Tael
2011-02-13, 06:10 PM
I'm planning on asking my Dm if I can re-fluff my massive minotaur greathammer as just his epic punches

Okay, have you seen the bonuses that you get from Scion of Awesome? You would still kick ass even if fought unarmed without IUS.

Kyrthain
2011-02-13, 06:11 PM
True, but 19-20*4 crit is REALLY hard to give up. Plus, then I can't up the weapon size

Amnestic
2011-02-13, 06:16 PM
Problem is, that's a PrC, so there's no way I'm going to be able to fit it in the first 5 levels. Also, my prejudice against daily limits makes me hesitant to make give him casting

Dragon Shaman and Dragonfire Adept are both base classes and have no daily casting, if you do want to follow the whole "He learnt much from the Dragons. Most important of all he learned how to punch them " idea.

Kyrthain
2011-02-13, 06:31 PM
I dunno. Dragons aren't really a major part of his character. I only added "Dragon Puncher" because punching a dragon in the face seemed right up his alley.

Amnestic
2011-02-13, 06:42 PM
I dunno. Dragons aren't really a major part of his character. I only added "Dragon Puncher" because punching a dragon in the face seemed right up his alley.

What about an incredibly self-centred Bard whose every tale is singing his own praises?

Robert Blackletter
2011-02-13, 06:44 PM
Warlock or dragonfire adapt, pick bluffs and possible take hideous blow. Its normally weak but it increase that first attack damage by a few d6(away from books at mo)

Kyrthain
2011-02-13, 06:49 PM
I'm really pretty locked on most of the build, so I just need something that works well with the rest. I was initially considering just going with fighter, but that seemed too bland for him

nedz
2011-02-13, 07:52 PM
I didn't think you could have PrCs on both sides of a gestault, but whatever.

Marshal sounds cool: Motivate Cha to add Cha to Cha, Grant Move Action would also be amusing.

If you want to hit things with your fists then Monk, strange idea perhaps but it might work for you.

Tael
2011-02-13, 07:53 PM
If your DM will let a Warlock's Hideous Blow be combined with Strikes, it's actually a pretty good option, letting you also pick up a bunch of pretty good static buffs like 24/7 Spiderclimb, and +6 to Intimidate (also Bluff and Diplomacy, but Intimidate is killer in this build. )

Draz74
2011-02-13, 08:03 PM
Incarnate is a good way (in gestalt) to pick up a handful of sundry little bonuses to whatever you want.

nedz
2011-02-13, 08:14 PM
If your DM will let a Warlock's Hideous Blow be combined with Strikes, it's actually a pretty good option, letting you also pick up a bunch of pretty good static buffs like 24/7 Spiderclimb, and +6 to Intimidate (also Bluff and Diplomacy, but Intimidate is killer in this build. )

Yeah - 4 levels of Warlock are good also (for 3 Least Invokations)
I wouldn't pick Hideous Blow myself but See the Unseen (darkvision and see invis), Spiderwalk(Spider Climb and Web Immunity) and well as the Beguiling Influence(+6 to Intimidate, Bluff and Diplomacy) though Leaps and Bounds (+6 Jump, Tumble and Balance) might also work for you.
Just take 1 level of Marshal for Motivate Charisma and your good.

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2011-02-13, 08:19 PM
Factotum, if you don't want to dip five times for class features.

You could go with a Major Bloodline (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/bloodlines.htm) (and also an intermediate, why not) considering it gets added to any class features based on class level, such as the Sweet Ride's HD. Major Titan Bloodline grants you Use Oversize Weapon "As the titan special ability." Let's look at that: "A titan wields a great, two-handed warhammer (big enough for Gargantuan creatures) without penalty." A diminutive creature could wield a gargantuan-size two-handed (greathorn minotaur) warhammer without penalty with this bloodline. You can take your Bloodline levels as early as you want, as long as they're not taken later than the specified levels, so you could start out Warblade 5// Bloodline 5, and get +5 levels to any "X per level" class feature of your prestige classes. I'd get Major Titan and Intermediate Stone Giant or Efreeti, just to avoid redundant bonus feats. Get EWP: Greathorn Greathammer and swing a Gargantuan sized hammer without penalty!

Otherwise, Cloistered Cleric (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#clericVariantCloistere dCleric) 1 (Knowledge and Travel Devotions, Celerity domain, Turn Undead)/ Wildshape Ranger (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#ranger) 1 (Fast Movement)/ Lion Spirit Barbarian 1 (Pounce, Whirling Frenzy (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/classFeatureVariants.htm#rageVariantWhirlingFrenzy ))/ Martial Wizard (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#wizard) Conjurer 1 (Abrupt Jaunt, make room for Extra Rage)/ Dread Necromancer 1 (Rebuke Undead, too!) I actually couldn't think of anything decent for the fifth one, so I figured why not double-up with Turn and Rebuke to power Travel Devotion, but if there's something better to take there then go ahead.

Urpriest
2011-02-13, 08:45 PM
Incarnate is a good way (in gestalt) to pick up a handful of sundry little bonuses to whatever you want.

To add to this: sure you can be a Good Incarnate, or a Chaos Incarnate...but what you really need to do is homebrew an Awesome Incarnate.

Kyrthain
2011-02-13, 08:51 PM
I didn't think you could have PrCs on both sides of a gestault, but whatever.

Marshal sounds cool: Motivate Cha to add Cha to Cha, Grant Move Action would also be amusing.

If you want to hit things with your fists then Monk, strange idea perhaps but it might work for you.

OK: Definitely want some of that motivate charisma. Titan bloodline also seems pretty sweet. That just leaves 1 level

EDIT: The extra +2 initiator level is too enticing. I'm thinking another giant minor bloodline (Doesn't really matter which)

The Rabbler
2011-02-13, 09:06 PM
Warblade 5// Bloodline 5, and get +5 levels to any "X per level" class feature of your prestige classes.


I don't think it works like that. IIRC, you pick one bloodline, take three levels in it at different points, and gain benefits every level. Also, because you're getting +1 IL for the warblade on one half of the gestalt, you don't gain any IL for having the bloodlines parallel. The rules for gestalt state something along the lines of "you get all non-overlapping features from both classes at each level" and because gaining IL is a part of gaining a class level, you can't gain one IL from each side of a gestalt level.

EDIT: also, bloodlines are shakily defined at best. Talk with your DM about them because they are rarely allowed in campaigns.

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2011-02-13, 09:25 PM
I don't think it works like that. IIRC, you pick one bloodline, take three levels in it at different points, and gain benefits every level. Also, because you're getting +1 IL for the warblade on one half of the gestalt, you don't gain any IL for having the bloodlines parallel. The rules for bloodlines state something along the lines of "you get all non-overlapping features from both classes at each level" and because gaining IL is a part of gaining a class level, you can't gain one IL from each side of a gestalt level.

I didn't mean to imply that you could double-up on initiator level with it. I even specified that it would apply to "X per level" abilities of his prestige classes. For example, his Bloodline levels would be added to his Follower of the Third class level for his daily Pure Speed duration. His Bloodline levels would be included in his Sweet Ride HD, his Practiced Protagonist bonus, and they would be added to his Jaw Dropper DC. However, his Initiator Level would not exceed his character level as a result of Bloodline levels.

"Before a character with a bloodline reaches the indicated character level, he must take one class level of "bloodline." That's before he reaches the indicated level, so taking your Bloodline level at the indicated character level would be waiting until the last minute. There is nothing prohibiting you from taking them early. I haven't read completely through the bloodline rules in a while, but I'm pretty sure it doesn't mention anywhere that you can only take one bloodline. A gestalt character could have three major and three minor bloodlines, and be able to take all of his bloodline levels before or at the deadline.

Jarian
2011-02-13, 09:26 PM
OK: Definitely want some of that motivate charisma. Titan bloodline also seems pretty sweet. That just leaves 1 level

Because nothing stimulates campaigns like 10d6 base bludgeoning damage!

Bloodlines should come with a warning label. They really should.

ETA: No, this isn't a "melee can't have nice things". This is a "titan bloodline is silly".

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2011-02-13, 09:29 PM
Greater Mighty Wallop (and spellcasters in general) > Titan Bloodline mechanically, but Titan Bloodline wins on awesome aesthetics.

Edit: "How can he even lift that thing?" "He's awesome!"

Dead_Jester
2011-02-13, 09:50 PM
Greater Mighty Wallop (and spellcasters in general) > Titan Bloodline mechanically, but Titan Bloodline wins on awesome aesthetics.

Edit: "How can he even lift that thing?" "He's awesome!"

No, mechanically, GMW + Titan Bloodline and a generous DM that let's improved weapon dmg scale to higher than colossal sized for dmg wins against pretty much anything, and keeps the flair too :smallbiggrin:.

MeeposFire
2011-02-13, 11:22 PM
I didn't mean to imply that you could double-up on initiator level with it. I even specified that it would apply to "X per level" abilities of his prestige classes. For example, his Bloodline levels would be added to his Follower of the Third class level for his daily Pure Speed duration. His Bloodline levels would be included in his Sweet Ride HD, his Practiced Protagonist bonus, and they would be added to his Jaw Dropper DC. However, his Initiator Level would not exceed his character level as a result of Bloodline levels.

"Before a character with a bloodline reaches the indicated character level, he must take one class level of "bloodline." That's before he reaches the indicated level, so taking your Bloodline level at the indicated character level would be waiting until the last minute. There is nothing prohibiting you from taking them early. I haven't read completely through the bloodline rules in a while, but I'm pretty sure it doesn't mention anywhere that you can only take one bloodline. A gestalt character could have three major and three minor bloodlines, and be able to take all of his bloodline levels before or at the deadline.

There is a question that needs to not be asked here. If you look across the internet you will find people that think bloodlines has no drawbacks as they say that the "level" of bloodline does not count as an actual level. Others say it does and so there is a cost to bloodlines. The rules can be shown to support either as they are not fully clear or definite. It all comes down to interpretation and who you talk to. It is a very contentions question and different boards tend to lean one direction or the other.

So in summary ask your DM how they want to handle it as the boards can only help you find reasons to take it in either directions but neither can prove the matter definitively.

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2011-02-14, 01:06 AM
Whatever bloodline level cheese has been suggested in other threads is irrelevant to this topic, the character in question is not a spellcasterand he does not gain any significant benefit from the mechanics of the bloodline levels. The character in the original post is designed to be aesthetically awesome, and the benefits of certain bloodlines can contribute to this. It was not suggested that he could double-up on any class feature progressions due to being a gestalt character, he only has a few class features which would even benefit from the bloodline levels, and none of them give him an unfair or even significant advantage if they exceed the normal max level of the prestige class. You guys are derailing this thread debating something that's not even relevant to this topic.

As for the Titan bloodline's Oversize Weapon ability, it's aesthetically over the top, which fits the character perfectly. Mechanically it pales in comparison to a 3rd level spell, so regarding game balance it's the more reasonable choice. I think it was a good suggestion, and apparently so did the OP.

dgnslyr
2011-02-14, 01:09 AM
Take a level in Badass (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6527724)? Have fun with it if your DM lets you.

MeeposFire
2011-02-14, 01:17 AM
Whatever bloodline level cheese has been suggested in other threads is irrelevant to this topic, the character in question is not a spellcasterand he does not gain any significant benefit from the mechanics of the bloodline levels. The character in the original post is designed to be aesthetically awesome, and the benefits of certain bloodlines can contribute to this. It was not suggested that he could double-up on any class feature progressions due to being a gestalt character, he only has a few class features which would even benefit from the bloodline levels, and none of them give him an unfair or even significant advantage if they exceed the normal max level of the prestige class. You guys are derailing this thread debating something that's not even relevant to this topic.

As for the Titan bloodline's Oversize Weapon ability, it's aesthetically over the top, which fits the character perfectly. Mechanically it pales in comparison to a 3rd level spell, so regarding game balance it's the more reasonable choice. I think it was a good suggestion, and apparently so did the OP.

Actually my post was not about the use of bloodlines to go over the max level in abilities such as the typical hellfire warlock.

My point was whether you count a level of bloodline as a level in your build as in is a fighter17/bloodline3 is a 20th level character or a 17th level character. That question is best left to a DM as it gets very problematic due to the rules reliance in interpretation.

mabriss lethe
2011-02-14, 02:09 AM
I'm suddenly reminded of Flex Mentallo (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flex_Mentallo)

Admiral Squish
2011-02-14, 02:35 AM
Okay, I think I can end this thread pretty neatly. You want an awesome class? BEHOLD! THE MOST MANLY OF CLASSES! The Disciple of Mym C'Sil. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=175468)

Hello, players. Look at your character. Now back to my class. Now back at your character, now back to my class. Sadly, your character isn't my class. But if he stopped using other classes and started using Ancient Spice, he could be awesome like my class. Look down, back up, where are you? You're in a dungeon crawl with the class your character could be awesome like. What's in your hand? Back at me. I have it, it's a +5 conjured greatsword. Look again, the greatsword is now epic! Anything is possible when your class is awesome like my class and not a weak class. I'm on a phantom steed.

[/Thread]

HunterOfJello
2011-02-14, 02:52 AM
As far as non-homebrew classes go, if you're making a high Int character I recommend the Factotum.

From Factotum 5 you get:

Tons of Skill Points
All class skills
Good Reflex Save
Add your Int Modifier to all of your Strength Checks, Dexterity Checks and Skill Checks based on Strength and Dexterity (this includes Initiative, Disarm, Trip, etc.)
Cast 2 prepared spell-like abilities per day chosen from the Wiz/Sorc spell list (up to level 2, which includes Glitterdust)

4 Inspiration Points which can be used to:
Boost an Attack, Damage, or a Save roll by your Int Modifier
Boost a skill check by your factotum level (5) once per day for each skill
Boost your AC by your Int mod for 1 round
Turn Undead or Heal someone with a touch

Note: Inspiration points work per encounter

~

Factotum is the ultimate gestalt class to add into any build where a character has a high Intelligence modifier.

Roc Ness
2011-02-14, 03:24 AM
I can't believe this. All the talk of dragon punching and nobody mentioned the FEARNAUGHT (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=147840)!

Seriously, the pic is of a guy ripping off the wings of a dragon in midair that he is standing on! You know its the class you're looking for. :smalltongue: