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View Full Version : Hobgoblins and similar



CycloneJoker
2011-02-13, 09:28 PM
Reading the Catfolk thread really reminded me of something that I'd been planing to do for a while, fixing LA.

I, personally, think that Hobgoblins should absolutely be LA zero. So, basically, post fixes for overpriced races. So post any corrections you might think would be deserved.

Mastikator
2011-02-13, 09:37 PM
Hobgoblins seem like a klingon-like race that are at +0.5 LA and have been rounded up, they have all benefits and no drawbacks, so I'd just give them a -2 racial penalty to bluff and diplomacy, since I don't envision hobgoblins either lying or trying to use kind words. It fits fluff-wise and puts them closer to LA 0 than LA +1.


Half-orcs and half-elves are both half-humans, so it'd make sense if they both got either the extra feat or the extra skills, I'm not sure which is more appropriate though since both of those are heavy bonuses.

Thurbane
2011-02-13, 09:55 PM
IMHO, the (almost) perfect crunch for a 1/2 Orc is the Neanderthal, from Frostburn.

As I posted in the other thread, WotC are generally very conservative when assigning LA...Hobgoblins get two +2 scores, and according to their formula, this is basically instant LA. Most players tend to be a lot more liberal when deciding what is worth LA when it comes to houserules or homebrew.

Short of the (IMHO) craziness of Lesser Planetouched, I don't think any "official" LA +0 race gets modifiers that equal out to more than +0; usually in the form of stat X +2, stat Y -2.

HunterOfJello
2011-02-13, 09:56 PM
The Blue (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Blue) is one of the best examples of a race that was created with a completely inappropriate Level Adjustment. There's absolutely no reason for Blues to be LA +1 considering the fact that they're almost bordering on LA -1 if they had 20ft speed.

I agree about the Hobgoblin. I think they could be given a -2 Cha to be a true LA 0, but they shouldn't be LA +1 as they are. However, Fire Hobgoblins are a different matter altogether.

~

Aasimar and Tieflings are both bordering on LA +1 in my opinion. I'm glad that their lesser versions were created, because removing the Outsider subtype can make them more appropriate.

In my mind, getting +2 to a stat, and 5 resistance to three types of energy is never going to be worth a full level in a class of your choice.

Yora
2011-02-14, 02:44 AM
I would reduce almost every LA of +2 to +5 by 1 point. Almost all LAs I've paid a closer look to seem to high. Higher LAs probably also deserve it, but a reduction of far more than just 1 might be neccessary.

+1 Skill Point per level for Half-Elves is what I also always do.

faceroll
2011-02-14, 06:23 AM
The Blue (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Blue) is one of the best examples of a race that was created with a completely inappropriate Level Adjustment. There's absolutely no reason for Blues to be LA +1 considering the fact that they're almost bordering on LA -1 if they had 20ft speed.

I feel like getting bonuses to casting stats should really come at a premium. Blues, with LA +0, make incredible casters.

Runestar
2011-02-14, 06:48 AM
I feel like getting bonuses to casting stats should really come at a premium. Blues, with LA +0, make incredible casters.

There are already LA+0 races which grant +2 int, namely the deep imaskari and sun elf. These even come with regional feats which make them native outsiders.

I also feel the various planetouched are quite weak for their +1LA. However, do you think their abilities should be strengthened to make them worthy of their LA+1, or slightly weakened to LA+0?

The solution to make them LA+0 would be quite simple, IMO. Simply take away their 1st lv feat.

+1LA is a little trickier. Here are my proposed revisions for the aasimar.
1) +2 str, +2wis, +2cha (few classes get to maximise the bonus to these 3 stats, save for paladins and maybe clerics, so I don't think it is that powerful).
2) Darkvision 60ft, acid, cold and electricity resistance5.
3) 1 SLA from the following list: cure light wound, aid, protection from evil, bless, colour spray, invis, see invis, blur, mirror image, dancing lights. Usable 1/day, caster lv = character lv.

Basically, I am using goliath as the baseline for a worthy +1LA race.

true_shinken
2011-02-14, 07:07 AM
I, personally, think that Hobgoblins should absolutely be LA zero. So, basically, post fixes for overpriced races. So post any corrections you might think would be deserved.
In my games, they keep their LA but get Hidden Talent as a bonus feat (there are reasons for that, of course).



I would reduce almost every LA of +2 to +5 by 1 point. Almost all LAs I've paid a closer look to seem to high. Higher LAs probably also deserve it, but a reduction of far more than just 1 might be neccessary.

+1 Skill Point per level for Half-Elves is what I also always do.
A player gave me a suggestion that I quickly adopted last sunday: a half-elf chooses a skill and keeps that skill as a class skill forever. He also gets a +2 to all skill checks tied to the same ability score of that skill. Remove their social skill bonuses.



I also feel the various planetouched are quite weak for their +1LA. However, do you think their abilities should be strengthened to make them worthy of their LA+1, or slightly weakened to LA+0?
I think they are fine. Outsider type is pretty good and they get nice stats anyway, with good feat support (flight is just a feat away!).


The solution to make them LA+0 would be quite simple, IMO. Simply take away their 1st lv feat.
I see your reasoning, but I don't like the solution. But then I shouldn't be meddling anyway, since I'm fine with them at LA+1.

Aldizog
2011-02-14, 02:34 PM
I'd give the hobgoblins +4 Str (in addition to +2 Dex/Con) and keep them at LA +1.
This would restore the world to its proper natural order of hobgoblins>orcs.

Starbuck_II
2011-02-14, 03:56 PM
I feel like getting bonuses to casting stats should really come at a premium. Blues, with LA +0, make incredible casters.

Not really, if they werre Goblin and more, than maybe. But they lose Goblin bonuses of Dex.

Goblin:
-2 Str/+2 Dex, -2 Cha
Blue:
-2 Str/+2 Int, -2 Cha


Better +1 LA Blue:
-2 Str/Cha;+2 Dex/Int

Currently, all a Blue does is switch Dex for Int (not worth it for 1 LA), but if you add Int than you could argue worth it.

Warlawk
2011-02-14, 04:18 PM
Short of the (IMHO) craziness of Lesser Planetouched, I don't think any "official" LA +0 race gets modifiers that equal out to more than +0; usually in the form of stat X +2, stat Y -2.

What I did for my Lesser Aasimar is drop the resistances, drop the skill bonuses and half the range on the darkvision. That's in addition to losing outsider status of course. It still feels pretty solid, but it isn't crazy good like RAW lesser planetouched.