PDA

View Full Version : [Magic] How would you feel about this in a setting?



Kiero
2011-02-14, 08:56 AM
I'm putting together a historical game (with Strands of Fate, not D&D or D20). Not a historical pastiche or alt-history, but one based solidly in the past. Using the wiggle-room that lack of much ground-level detail gives us.

The "not alt-history" part is significant, because I'm not about to throw elves/orcs/whatever into it, nor flashy Vancian magic. But I am considering a little magic for that tiny minority of mystics and mages who genuinely have power. Most people who claim to have magical powers are charlatans, lunatics or both.

The main thing is that "mage" is not a combat role. There is no instantaneous battle magic. What mages can do is things like seeing beyond the physical veil and dealing with the things that live there, going on ghost-walks (ie astral projection), clairsentience, healing, reading thoughts and emotions, augmenting the weather and fertility.

So for example with the care of a genuine magus, someone with an injury that might take months to recover from takes weeks instead. Crops would grow abundantly in poor quality land. After weeks of ritual, a summer storm is conjured on what should have been a sunny day. Having spent half a day in chanting and meditation, the mage leaves their body to travel to a distant land and spy on a meeting of kings.

Ritual is the key here, because all magic comes about through time, practise, investment of resources and better yet additional people to assist the mage. Almost nothing happens spontaneously. To have something to hand, it has to have been prepared in advance.

There is also no item crafting, no magic or mystical items, none. All magic exists only when someone is actively doing something with it.

Does that sound interesting?

Thrawn4
2011-02-14, 09:17 AM
For those more interested in a low-magic setting, this might be a lot of fun. Personally, I like your idea, it makes magic more unique and more flavorful. The search for a certain ritual might now involve a set of adventures instead of a walk to the next magic shop. Also, travelling might offer the opportunity to learn a ritual with the same effect but other prequesites. And it is much more difficult to tell apart frauds from true magicans.

mint
2011-02-14, 09:20 AM
The way you describe it makes it sound like you want magic to be more a story device than a tool for the players. Personally, I would find that frustrating if it was presented as a tool for me to invest in.

Kiero
2011-02-14, 09:48 AM
For those more interested in a low-magic setting, this might be a lot of fun. Personally, I like your idea, it makes magic more unique and more flavorful. The search for a certain ritual might now involve a set of adventures instead of a walk to the next magic shop. Also, travelling might offer the opportunity to learn a ritual with the same effect but other prequesites. And it is much more difficult to tell apart frauds from true magicans.

The last is especially the feel I want, its very difficult to tell the silver-tongued trickster from someone who genuinely commands the arcane.

Certainly no magic shops or easy places to get magical power. You'd have to search local knowledge and rumour, sift through many a charlatan before reaching someone who actually knows something.


The way you describe it makes it sound like you want magic to be more a story device than a tool for the players. Personally, I would find that frustrating if it was presented as a tool for me to invest in.

That's mostly the idea, it's a strategic rather than tactical tool in the main. Anyone expecting to have ready magic they can use without prior preparation is going to be disappointed.

Point is that for the ordinary person with no contact, they could very feasibly believe there's no such thing as magic, because its subtle and non-immediate.

Comet
2011-02-14, 10:13 AM
Yes, this is one of favourite flavours of magic.

It's elusive and subtle but still supernatural and amazing. Allows the mages to feel special and empowered without needing to walk over armies to prove that they can bend unseen forces.

Also, the ritual part is great. I find that getting supernatural powers to do your bidding is much more satisfying if you have to actually work for those effects, instead of just flicking a wrist and blasting away.

All in all, I like it lots and lots, for what it's worth.

Totally Guy
2011-02-14, 10:37 AM
Would this work a "subtle magic" character aspect that could be evoked using the standard fate point bargaining procedure?

Is that a bit fluffy? You'd need to get the apsect worded just right and have everybody understand the role of magic in the setting.

I'm not 100% on the intricacies of the Fate stuff.

But, yes, I like it. I've seen other low magic games use a Magic skill as a skill that covers multiple other skills. Then it costs some resource or involves some risk to use.

Toliudar
2011-02-14, 10:43 AM
As noted before, if magic is slow and subtle and plot based rather than tactical, then from a player perspective, unless you're invading France or something similiar - that is, if you're maintaining the focus on a few individuals rather than on a game of nations - then you're effectively creating a no-magic setting with a few long-term changes due to magic. You haven't really talked about what you picture the players doing, so that would be the determinant about whether the game itself would be fun.

Kiero
2011-02-14, 10:57 AM
Yes, this is one of favourite flavours of magic.

It's elusive and subtle but still supernatural and amazing. Allows the mages to feel special and empowered without needing to walk over armies to prove that they can bend unseen forces.

Also, the ritual part is great. I find that getting supernatural powers to do your bidding is much more satisfying if you have to actually work for those effects, instead of just flicking a wrist and blasting away.

All in all, I like it lots and lots, for what it's worth.

That's what I'm hoping it does. The idea is for magic to be evocative and appropriate to a historical setting. We can look back at history and not see the magic because we don't believe it exists. Miraculous recoveries from disease or injury happen in real life, for example, we don't usually attribute them to magic.

What I'm not trying to do is make magic attractive as a character option. If someone happens to find it engaging, so much the better. But if they're looking for equivalence with mages in other settings, they won't get it.


Would this work a "subtle magic" character aspect that could be evoked using the standard fate point bargaining procedure?

Is that a bit fluffy? You'd need to get the apsect worded just right and have everybody understand the role of magic in the setting.

I'm not 100% on the intricacies of the Fate stuff.

But, yes, I like it. I've seen other low magic games use a Magic skill as a skill that covers multiple other skills. Then it costs some resource or involves some risk to use.

I've done this via a fairly simply usage of the rules for Powers in Strands of Fate.

Rather than an Affinity Ability, I've just keyed magic off Willpower. Instead of a Power Aspect, someone has to devote one of their Character Aspects to magic. Then they buy the Meta-Power called Ritual Power with Advantage Points. This is the only means by which they can acquire Powers.

Then the allowed list is thus: Affliction, Astral Perception, Astral Projection, Awe*, Blessing, Clairsentience, Heal, Illusions*, Morph*, Morph Living*, Poison, Postcognition, Precognition, Read Emotions*, Read Thoughts*, Repel Creature, Sense, Summon Creature.

I've just got to add some weather control and it's done.


As noted before, if magic is slow and subtle and plot based rather than tactical, then from a player perspective, unless you're invading France or something similiar - that is, if you're maintaining the focus on a few individuals rather than on a game of nations - then you're effectively creating a no-magic setting with a few long-term changes due to magic. You haven't really talked about what you picture the players doing, so that would be the determinant about whether the game itself would be fun.

PCs will be movers, shakers and trouble-makers. Mercenary captains, spymasters, rulers over merchantile empires, diplomats trusted with the counsel of kings and so on. They could be acting for an established power, or for themselves (or both given the usual makeup of a group). They could be raising and leading armies, fomenting economic warfare on a rival power, persuading prominent cities to change their alleigance and so on. As well as the usual host of personal missions, vengeance on someone who wronged you in the past, trying to win the hand of someone special, getting filthy rich etc.

From a character build perspective, magic doesn't require a massive investment of character resources. So being a mage isn't all they'd be. But it would still be something that significantly colours the character's perspective on the world, being able to see things others can't.

Totally Guy
2011-02-14, 11:18 AM
Then the allowed list is thus: Affliction, Astral Perception, Astral Projection, Awe*, Blessing, Clairsentience, Heal, Illusions*, Morph*, Morph Living*, Poison, Postcognition, Precognition, Read Emotions*, Read Thoughts*, Repel Creature, Sense, Summon Creature.

I'm afraid I'm only familiar with Spirit of the Century (and it puts me to sleep every time I try to read it).

But that looks like a pretty big list! I thought you hated big skill lists...

The "low magic" thing seems to be in the rarity of those individuals rather than limits placed upon them. But then you say that the cost isn't so big as to disuade a Player. So which is it?

What is the cost of using magic (after the cost of being an individual that can use it)? I find that interesting costs are way more interesting that interesting than interesting abilities. But that's just me.

With just the information given so far I'm not sure I get it.

Kiero
2011-02-14, 12:10 PM
I'm afraid I'm only familiar with Spirit of the Century (and it puts me to sleep every time I try to read it).

But that looks like a pretty big list! I thought you hated big skill lists...

Strands of Fate is quite a bit different. Those aren't skills, they're powers that are available to someone with access to Ritual Power. I'd point you at pages 201-2 of SoF, but you don't have it. That's eighteen out of the forty-odd example powers (which is partly aimed at being able to do supers).

Note the absence of things like conjuring/controlling elements, teleportation, mind control, flight, creating barriers, dispelling magic and so on.


The "low magic" thing seems to be in the rarity of those individuals rather than limits placed upon them. But then you say that the cost isn't so big as to disuade a Player. So which is it?

What is the cost of using magic (after the cost of being an individual that can use it)? I find that interesting costs are way more interesting that interesting than interesting abilities. But that's just me.

With just the information given so far I'm not sure I get it.

It's both rarity and limits. Limits being that there is a fairly narrow list of powers, and they all require at least several hours (if not days or even weeks) of preparation to use.

The cost is time, ingredients and such. Possibly having to be in a particular place at a particular time to be effective. There's no mana points or anything like that, though if the ritual fails it causes harm.