[3.5 Base Class]The Energy Weaver

[Pyromancer999]

Background- 3rd in a series of specialized psionic manifesters, one for each discipline.

The Energy Weaver

Energy. It's all around us, used by all creatures, no matter what it is they do. Philosophers and Psions alike have likened the energy of the world as that of a pool. The Kineticist skims along this pool, while the Energy Weaver dives right in.

HD: d6
Skill points: 2 + Int mod (4 + Int mod x 4 at first level)
Skills:Autohypnosis(Wis), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Disable Device(Dex), Intimidate(Cha), Knowledge (all skills, taken individually) (Int), Profession (Wis), Psicraft(Int)

The Energy Weaver
{table=head]Level|Base Attack <br> Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special |Power <br> Points/ <br> Day | Powers <br> Known| Maximum <br> Power <br> Level <br> Known

1st|
+0|
+0|
+0|
+2|Psicrystal, Energy Blast, Chosen Wielding|3|2|1st

2nd|
+1|
+0|
+0|
+3|Energy Companion(Small), Energy Pool|5|3|1st

3rd|
+2|
+1|
+1|
+3|Additional Ammunition 1d8|10|5|2nd

4th|
+3|
+1|
+1|
+4|Energy Sheathe, Energy Manipulation|16|6|2nd

5th|
+3|
+1|
+1|
+4|Additional Ammunition 2d8|24|8|3rd

6th|
+4|
+2|
+2|
+5|Energy Manipulation |33|9|3rd

7th|
+5|
+2|
+2|
+5|Additional Ammunition 3d8|44|11|4th

8th|
+6|
+2|
+2|
+6|Energy Companion(Medium)Energy Manipulation|56|12|4th

9th|
+6|
+3|
+3|
+6|Additional Ammunition 4d8|70|14|5th

10th|
+7|
+3|
+3|
+7|Energy Manipulation|85|15|5th

11th|
+8|
+3|
+3|
+7|Additional Ammunition 5d8|102|17|6th

12th|
+9|
+4|
+4|
+8|Energy Manipulation, Energy Shield |120|18|6th

13th|
+9|
+4|
+4|
+8|Additional Ammunition 6d8|140|20|7th

14th|
+10|
+4|
+4|
+9|Energy Manipulation |161|21|7th

15th|
+11|
+5|
+5|
+9|Additional Ammunition 7d8|184|23|8th

16th|
+12|
+5|
+5|
+10|Energy Companion(Large), Energy Manipulation|208|24|8th

17th|
+12|
+5|
+5|
+10|Additional Ammunition 8d8|234|26|9th

18th|
+13|
+6|
+6|
+11|Energy Manipulation |261|27|9th

19th|
+14|
+6|
+6|
+11|Additional Ammunition 9d8|289|29|9th

20th|
+15|
+6|
+6|
+12|Energy Apothesis, Energy Manipulation|318|30|9th[/table]

Class Features

Armor and Weapon Proficiencies: Energy Weavers are proficient with all simple weapons. Mind Forgers are not proficient with any armor nor shield unless created by the Mindcrafter class feature.

Power Points/Day: An Energy Weaver's Power Points Per Day are as on the table above.
Powers Known:[/B] The Energy Weaver begins play knowing two powers of the player's choice. The Energy Weaver may choose any power of the Psychokinesis discipline when choosing powers. If manifesting a power that does not deal damage of the Energy Weaver's chosen energy type, it is treated as though the Energy Weaver's manifester level was one level lower.Manifestation stat is Wisdom.


Chosen Wielding: At 1st level, the Energy Weaver chooses one type of energy. This determines how the Energy Weaver's class features are used. Additionally, the Energy Weaver may learn spells with the same energy descriptor as the type of energy chosen through this class feature as powers. This type of power cannot make up more than 1/2 the Energy Weaver's powers known.


Energy Blast: The Energy Weaver can, as a standard action, fire a bolt of energy as a ranged attack against any one enemy within 30 ft, dealing 1d8 damage of the Energy Weaver's chosen energy type.

Energy Pool: At 2nd level, at the start of each day, the Energy Weaver gains a pool of dice to enhance their Energy Blast with. This pool has 1d8s, and has a number of dice equal to 3 x class level + Int modifier dice. Dice may be added to the pool at the cost of 2 power points per die added.

Energy Companion: The Energy Weaver's Psicrystal evolves to become an embodiment of the energy wielded by the Energy Weaver. At 2nd level, the Energy Weaver's Psicrystal changes into a Small Elemental based upon the type of energy chosen:

Type of Energy | Elemental
Fire | Fire
Cold | Water
Acid | Earth
Sonic/Force/Electric| Air

This elemental is still treated as a Psicrystal except it does not gain the Propulsion, Alertness, or Flight speed of a normal Psicrystal. Instead, the Elemental grants resistance to the Energy Wielder's chosen type equal to 2 x the Energy Weaver's class level. At 8th level, its size increases to Medium, and increases to Large at 16th level.

Additional Ammunition: At 3rd level, the Energy Weaver can focus their mind and add more force to their attacks. As a standard action, the Energy Weaver may expend their psionic focus to add damage to their Energy Blast attack. This additional damage is drawn from a pool with as many dice as stated on the table above.This pool adds one die at 5th level, and adds an additional 1d8 every two levels after. This pool refreshes at the beginning of the day and at the start of each encounter.

Energy Manipulation: At 4th level, and every two levels after, the Energy Weaver learns how to improve his or her usage of their chosen type of energy. They may choose one of the following abilities each time from the choices below. Dice expended are drawn from the Energy Pool class feature, and unless stated otherwise, last for 1 round/4 levels.

Different Energies: Chose one energy type other than the type chosen for Chosen Wielding. By expending two dice, the Energy Weaver may change his or her use of the Energy Blast ability to the type chosen through this ability. This may be taken multiple times, and a different type chosen each time.

Energy Bomb: By expending two dice, the Energy Weaver may cause his or her Energy Blast to affect everyone within 5 feet of the original target. By selecting this ability again, each time this ability is selected, the Energy Weaver may expend an additional die to extend the radius by 5 ft.

Energy Imbuement: By expending one die, the Energy Weaver may cause an ally's or their own melee or ranged extraordinary attack to deal damage of their chosen energy type. By selecting this ability again, the Energy Weaver may expend one additional die to add its damage to the ally's attack each time this is chosen.

Energy Swipe: By expending two dice, the Energy Weaver may change their Energy Blast to cover a 20 ft cone in front of them. For each additional time this ability is chosen, the Energy Weaver may expend an additional die to extend the radius by 10 ft.

Energy Cannon: By expending two dice, the Energy Weaver may increase the rest of the Dice used in their Energy Blast by one step.
[B]
Energy Blast Enhancement: The Energy Weaver's Energy Blast increases by 1 die. This may only be chosen every other level, and dice gained from this ability cannot be used for class features.

Energy Line: The Energy Weaver, by expending two dice, may have their Energy Blast affect a 40 ft line. For each time the Energy Weaver is selecting this ability again, he or she may expend an additional die to extend the line by 20 ft.

Energy Aura: The Energy Weaver, by expending one additional die, may have their Energy Sheathe affect those in a 5 ft radius. By selecting this ability again, each additional time, the Energy Weaver may expend another die to add 5ft to the radius.

Resistance Breaker: The Energy Weaver's attacks now pierce energy resistance. All attacks of the Energy Weaver's Chosen Wielding energy type now treat targets as though they had 5 less resistance to that energy(ex. resistance 10 changed to resistance 5). By expending a die from their Energy Pool, the Energy Weaver may increase the loss of resistance by 10. This ability may be chosen multiple times, each time allowing an additional die to be spent. Once this reaches 5 dice, the Energy Weaver may expend 5 dice from their energy pool to bypass immunity to the energy type from their Chosen Wielding class feature.


Energy Sheathe: At 4th level, the Energy Weaver may protect his or her self by encasing their person in an overcoat of energy. By expending two dice as a standard action, for a number of rounds equal to the Energy Weaver's class level, any who attack the Energy Weaver with a melee attack suffer damage of the Energy Weaver's chosen type equal to 3/4 the Energy Weaver's class level.

Energy Shield: At 12th level, as a standard action, by expending three dice, the Energy Weaver may absorb energy in the form of damage, then release it. Lasting a number of rounds per class level, this ability erects a shield around the Energy Weaver that absorbs the damage taken by the Energy Wielder. This can only absorb an amount of damage per round equal to 1/3 the Energy Weaver's class level, and for every 8 points of damage taken, 1 die is added to the Energy Weaver's Energy Pool.

Energy Apothesis: At 20th level, the Energy Weaver embodies their chosen energy type. Firstly, the Energy Weaver gains immunity to their energy type. Secondly, their Energy Companion's Size changes to Huge. Thirdly, for a number of rounds per day equal to their class level, the Energy Weaver may become an Energy Lord. When in this State, the Energy Weaver is treated as being a Huge Elemental as appropriate for their type of energy chosen through the Chosen Wielding class feature. Additionally, they may use their Energy Blast class feature once per round as a free action, and when using their Energy Blast in any other fashion, may treat each blast as though up to 5 dice from their Energy Pool was used on it. All creatures within 10 feet take an amount of damage equal to the Energy Weaver's Int modifier of the type of damage chosen through Chosen Wielding each round. These rounds need not be used consecutively, but must be used in two-round intervals.

Well, that's it. Please comment and PEACH.

[D Knight]

i see a problem if people pick sonic as there energy. reason 1 is that nothing has immunity to it and very thing is weak against it. but over all it look cool

[IcarusWings]

i see a problem if people pick sonic as there energy. reason 1 is that nothing has immunity to it and very thing is weak against it. but over all it look cool

Force is also a problem, as it's a very powerful energy.

[Nopraptor]

in power points\day you wrote: A energy weaver instead of An energy weaver
besides that it's really cool :smallamused:

[Pyromancer999]

Force is also a problem, as it's a very powerful energy.

So, I'm guessing that Force should be taken off? Also, Sonic was allowed in the Mind's Eye general Kineticist class, so I think I'll keep that.


in power points\day you wrote: A energy weaver instead of An energy weaver
besides that it's really cool :smallamused:

Thanks. :smallbiggrin: Spelling error now fixed.

[Benly]

The Energy Weaver's prohibition on non-psychokinetic powers makes it the only psionic class that can't benefit from Expanded Knowledge. Is this deliberate? If so, why?

It might be reasonable to allow Energy Companion to grant an Elemental Steward (Complete Psionic) or Energon (Planar Handbook) instead of an elemental if the player chooses; Stewards are psionically-themed elementals while Energons are specifically focused on the energy types. Both are higher CR than small elementals, so it would make sense for them to be upgrade options at appropriate levels akin to the current elemental size upgrades.

The penalty to non-chosen-energy powers should probably be a penalty to powers that deal energy damage and do not deal energy damage of the chosen type. Otherwise, the only powers that a first-level energy weaver can choose are Energy Ray, Energy Arc, and Control Fire. (Far Hand and other non-energy kinetic powers will have a ML of 0, because they do not deal energy damage. Non-fire specialists will only have Energy Ray and Energy Arc.)

Energy Blast has some problems. To begin with, Energy Pool presently has no cap on the permitted degree of enhancement, so you can very easily nova - a 10d8 energy blast at level 1 can solve a lot of problems. :smallwink:

However, other than the nova option, Energy Blast is sort of a questionable ability. You're giving up a lot compared to a kineticist psion, and Energy Blast is the main thing you're getting in return. As it is, it's either broken (if you nova) or a couple of extra shots of Energy Ray (if you don't). Assuming the nova exploit is fixed, it's not worth the tradeoff.

What I would recommend is to make Energy Blast's damage scale automatically, gaining perhaps a die every odd-numbered level so that its damage remains equivalent to a fire or cold Energy Ray. Change the dice in the Energy Pool to "energy points", remove the option to use them to increase Energy Blast damage (that's what Additional Ammunition is for), and have them solely fuel Energy Manipulation and other class abilities.

If all you can do is blast, you should be good at it. As it stands, other than the nova exploit the energy weaver is not only worse at non-blasting activities than a psion, he's worse at blasting because he can't change energy types for resistant monsters without incurring a ML penalty. Energy Ray as it stands is not enough to overcome that. Changing Energy Ray to automatically scale means that he can do level-appropriate "basic" blasting without expending PP, and reserve his PP for more spectacular powers.

Edit: I also just noticed that Energy Blast is a ranged attack, not a ranged touch attack. It should probably be a ranged touch attack; as it stands, it's actually just worse than Energy Ray in every way except the broken nova at low levels.

[Pyromancer999]

The Energy Weaver's prohibition on non-psychokinetic powers makes it the only psionic class that can't benefit from Expanded Knowledge. Is this deliberate? If so, why?

This makes it more reasonably balanced. I'm aiming for the tier 3- low tier 2 range here.


It might be reasonable to allow Energy Companion to grant an Elemental Steward (Complete Psionic) or Energon (Planar Handbook) instead of an elemental if the player chooses; Stewards are psionically-themed elementals while Energons are specifically focused on the energy types. Both are higher CR than small elementals, so it would make sense for them to be upgrade options at appropriate levels akin to the current elemental size upgrades.

A reasonable idea, I suppose, but I'm not so sure about that.


The penalty to non-chosen-energy powers should probably be a penalty to powers that deal energy damage and do not deal energy damage of the chosen type. Otherwise, the only powers that a first-level energy weaver can choose are Energy Ray, Energy Arc, and Control Fire. (Far Hand and other non-energy kinetic powers will have a ML of 0, because they do not deal energy damage. Non-fire specialists will only have Energy Ray and Energy Arc.)

This is valid.


Energy Blast has some problems. To begin with, Energy Pool presently has no cap on the permitted degree of enhancement, so you can very easily nova - a 10d8 energy blast at level 1 can solve a lot of problems. :smallwink:

How does that happen? Maybe at level 2, but certainately not 1. Still, how about a limit equal to the Energy Weaver's class level per use?


However, other than the nova option, Energy Blast is sort of a questionable ability. You're giving up a lot compared to a kineticist psion, and Energy Blast is the main thing you're getting in return. As it is, it's either broken (if you nova) or a couple of extra shots of Energy Ray (if you don't). Assuming the nova exploit is fixed, it's not worth the tradeoff.

What's this nova exploit you're mentioning?


What I would recommend is to make Energy Blast's damage scale automatically, gaining perhaps a die every odd-numbered level so that its damage remains equivalent to a fire or cold Energy Ray. Change the dice in the Energy Pool to "energy points", remove the option to use them to increase Energy Blast damage (that's what Additional Ammunition is for), and have them solely fuel Energy Manipulation and other class abilities.

Eh, I think it's fine as it is.


If all you can do is blast, you should be good at it. As it stands, other than the nova exploit the energy weaver is not only worse at non-blasting activities than a psion, he's worse at blasting because he can't change energy types for resistant monsters without incurring a ML penalty. Energy Ray as it stands is not enough to overcome that. Changing Energy Ray to automatically scale means that he can do level-appropriate "basic" blasting without expending PP, and reserve his PP for more spectacular powers.

Wrong about the ML penalty.


Edit: I also just noticed that Energy Blast is a ranged attack, not a ranged touch attack. It should probably be a ranged touch attack; as it stands, it's actually just worse than Energy Ray in every way except the broken nova at low levels.

Maybe. Except what is this nova you keep mentioning?

[Dead_Jester]

Like the others, this is looking good, but like the shaper one, this needs something to use it's power slots on.

You might also want to add an Energy Manipulation that reduces resistance, so that blasting with a single element type is possible.

You also only have 8 Energy Manipulation abilities, but the class gets the ability 9 times. I'd recommend you keep those ones for level 4 to 10 (or 12), and add another series of stronger abilities for levels 12 (or 14) to 20.

[Pyromancer999]

Like the others, this is looking good, but like the shaper one, this needs something to use it's power slots on.

There are plenty of Psychokinesis powers out there.


You might also want to add an Energy Manipulation that reduces resistance, so that blasting with a single element type is possible.

That's true. But how much should it reduce the resistance by? And what about immunity?


You also only have 8 Energy Manipulation abilities, but the class gets the ability 9 times. I'd recommend you keep those ones for level 4 to 10 (or 12), and add another series of stronger abilities for levels 12 (or 14) to 20.
Each can be selected multiple times, either to expand options or enhance the ability after it's already been chosen. So, there are actually more than enough options to choose for this.

[JKTrickster]

This class doesn't stand equal to the other classes you made. Even though I understand the Kinectist was primarily a blaster/glass cannon type of manifester, there is no reason to keep that limitation here.

This is a being who has mastered manipulating ENERGY with their minds. Besides the raw destructive powers of that, there should be OTHER much more passive abilities. You set a good example with the Shield and the Sheathe but you can do much more.

For example, what happens if they take energy AWAY from objects, instead of just discharging it? Or flow it from one source to another?

Also is there a reason why the capstone is weaker than the capstone of the other classes?

And you don't have their manifesting stat listed...

[Pyromancer999]

This is a being who has mastered manipulating ENERGY with their minds. Besides the raw destructive powers of that, there should be OTHER much more passive abilities. You set a good example with the Shield and the Sheathe but you can do much more.

For example, what happens if they take energy AWAY from objects, instead of just discharging it? Or flow it from one source to another?

That's just what Energy Shield is.


Also is there a reason why the capstone is weaker than the capstone of the other classes?

It's not really that much weaker. A Huge Elemental is nothing to scoff at.


And you don't have their manifesting stat listed...
It's Intelligence.

[JKTrickster]

Energy Shield is a combat ability. For example, drawing energy from a fire or a volcano at higher levels. There's no reason why The Energy Weaver's manipulation of energy merely be "Blast" and "Bigger Blast".

The capstone for the other classes half the cost for manifesting a power. A Huge Elemental can't compare to that.

This class doesn't do anything but damage, and more damage. It needs to diversify the role (even if only slightly) in order to be parallel at higher levels.

E.g. How about Telekinetic powers? Create some support for telekinetic abilities in this class allows a great out of combat utility that can be semi-control in battles when blasting isn't needed.

Also the damage an Energy Weaver deals needs to be able to penetrate resistances during the higher levels.

[Pyromancer999]

Energy Shield is a combat ability. For example, drawing energy from a fire or a volcano at higher levels. There's no reason why The Energy Weaver's manipulation of energy merely be "Blast" and "Bigger Blast".

Energy Shield can draw energy from fires and volcanoes.


The capstone for the other classes half the cost for manifesting a power. A Huge Elemental can't compare to that.

It's not just that.


This class doesn't do anything but damage, and more damage. It needs to diversify the role (even if only slightly) in order to be parallel at higher levels.

E.g. How about Telekinetic powers? Create some support for telekinetic abilities in this class allows a great out of combat utility that can be semi-control in battles when blasting isn't needed.

Maybe a Wall option?


Also the damage an Energy Weaver deals needs to be able to penetrate resistances during the higher levels.
True. Working that out right now.

[Benly]

This makes it more reasonably balanced. I'm aiming for the tier 3- low tier 2 range here.


You're not getting there. This is a tier 4.


How does that happen? Maybe at level 2, but certainately not 1. Still, how about a limit equal to the Energy Weaver's class level per use?

Whoops, I missed that Energy Pool kicks in at level 2. So 15d8 at level 2, then.

Level 2 energy weaver with 18 Intelligence. 1d8 base, 6d8 for level-based energy pool, 4d8 for Int bonus, 4d8 bought with PP (assuming Int is the manifesting ability for this class, which is actually never mentioned - if not, it still only requires a 12 in the manifesting ability.)



What's this nova exploit you're mentioning?

It's the thing I just said where you deal 15d8 damage once per day at level 2. "Nova" is a term for expending all your daily resources in one burst of ridiculousness, like wizard/sorcerer builds that cast a dozen spells in the first round of combat and are then spent for the rest of the day.



Wrong about the ML penalty.

How? You can use your Energy Blast to do it, but that runs out of level-appropriate damage after the first few shots of the day because it doesn't automatically scale, nor does its expended resource come in sufficient quantity. You take a ML penalty when using a power to do it. If you need to shoot things resistant to your favored energy more than a couple of times a day, you're just going to have to suck down the penalty.


Eh, I think it's fine as it is.

It's really not. To put it in perspective: assuming you limit Energy Blast to match the damage of an appropriate-level Energy Ray, a dromite who takes the Dromite Ray feat is blasting about as well as you are, because psi-like abilities automatically scale and you need to spend a third of your dice to match the damage. A guy who buys a Wand of Scorching Ray is blasting almost as well as you are, for longer, and he didn't give up 5/6ths of the psionic powers printed (including most of the utility powers) to be able to do it. You're sacrificing everything else to be able to blast, but your only advantage in the blasting department runs out of ammo after three shots and it isn't even that good.

Energy Blast needs to be better, or the class needs something else to make it worthwhile.

[Pyromancer999]

You're not getting there. This is a tier 4.

Really? *Evil grin* Then I have some plans for this.


Whoops, I missed that Energy Pool kicks in at level 2. So 15d8 at level 2, then.

Level 2 energy weaver with 18 Intelligence. 1d8 base, 6d8 for level-based energy pool, 4d8 for Int bonus, 4d8 bought with PP (assuming Int is the manifesting ability for this class, which is actually never mentioned - if not, it still only requires a 12 in the manifesting ability.)




It's the thing I just said where you deal 15d8 damage once per day at level 2. "Nova" is a term for expending all your daily resources in one burst of ridiculousness, like wizard/sorcerer builds that cast a dozen spells in the first round of combat and are then spent for the rest of the day.

How about a cap equal to 1/2 the Energy Weaver's class level of dice expent at one time?



How? You can use your Energy Blast to do it, but that runs out of level-appropriate damage after the first few shots of the day because it doesn't automatically scale, nor does its expended resource come in sufficient quantity. You take a ML penalty when using a power to do it. If you need to shoot things resistant to your favored energy more than a couple of times a day, you're just going to have to suck down the penalty.



It's really not. To put it in perspective: assuming you limit Energy Blast to match the damage of an appropriate-level Energy Ray, a dromite who takes the Dromite Ray feat is blasting about as well as you are, because psi-like abilities automatically scale and you need to spend a third of your dice to match the damage. A guy who buys a Wand of Scorching Ray is blasting almost as well as you are, for longer, and he didn't give up 5/6ths of the psionic powers printed (including most of the utility powers) to be able to do it. You're sacrificing everything else to be able to blast, but your only advantage in the blasting department runs out of ammo after three shots and it isn't even that good.

Energy Blast needs to be better, or the class needs something else to make it worthwhile.

How about Energy Blast just increases at 3rd level and every two levels after by 1 die, and it gains a pool per encounter of dice to use on their Energy Blast? Also, maybe at higher levels give it free dice to spend on each attack.

[Benly]

How about Energy Blast just increases at 3rd level and every two levels after by 1 die, and it gains a pool per encounter of dice to use on their Energy Blast? Also, maybe at higher levels give it free dice to spend on each attack.

Yeah, this is the kind of automatic scaling I was suggesting. It's less good than an Energy Ray, but on the other hand, it's free and unlimited, and per-encounter Energy Pool gives it enough extra kick to be worth mentioning.

Basically, you can't do much to make Energy Blast your first line of assault short of nova tactics, but you can make it a respectable and solid backup plan. The cap you suggest also sounds good, since that catches it up to Energy Ray damage (approximately).

I would still recommend allowing Expanded Knowledge to pick up non-kinetic powers. Forbidding it is inconsistent with psionic classes as a whole, and I don't think the class is so strong as to warrant a nerf like that.

[druidor]

only issue I have with those changes is that added ammunition is now exactly identical to the "blast" powers granted to the egoist and shaper variants, only it needs to pick an element (which usually has resists) while the other two do untyped damage, and damage isn't even their focus. what would be neat is if you could expend focus as part of manifesting a power to grant it *bonus* dice of damage equal to your additional ammo level; you start out only adding a few d8's and by the time it becomes 4d8, everyone else will be using death spells and other ridiculousness, so blasting extremely well isn't that bad (the class might be a bit stronger at lvl 5-8, but it's still far weaker than the other disciplines); obviously you also keep the original functionality as well, but now you can blast in other elements by expending 1 pp (energy ray with the chosen element, expend focus, and you have a ray doing 1d6+xd8 damage) and do a ton of damage when you want to.

of course now the issue is that you can't apply metapsionics to powers that you use this "free augment" on, but that's an issue with metapsionics as a whole anyways.

oh, and if you're worried about the damage output, something to keep in mind: at 8 hd, 2 pts of con drain do about the same amount of damage as 2d8 damage; at 9th lvl a telepath would have access to powers like psychic crush and metaconcert, instead of 4d8 extra damage to a power

[Pyromancer999]

True, the power of Energy Blast does need to increase a bit. Also, just thought of something cool. I'm not sure if it should be a class feature or a feat, but what if an Energy Weaver was able to split their Energy Companion into smaller elementals?

[JKTrickster]

I think the major issue is that you focus too much on blasting. No matter how strong, a blasting-only character is extremely limited in what they can do (after all, there's only so many ways to deal damage before they seem the same).

The Kinectist was also the Telekinesis user in Psionics. But Telekinesis (at least on the Psionic level) never went too wild.

You can change that. Add some Telekinetic Battlefield Control abilities or develop existing ones. Do more than just damage - this is RAW energy we are talking about. It's time to think bigger than what WoTC imagined, especially to make this balanced with giants like Bio-Sculptor.

[Pyromancer999]

I think the major issue is that you focus too much on blasting. No matter how strong, a blasting-only character is extremely limited in what they can do (after all, there's only so many ways to deal damage before they seem the same).

The Kinectist was also the Telekinesis user in Psionics. But Telekinesis (at least on the Psionic level) never went too wild.

You can change that. Add some Telekinetic Battlefield Control abilities or develop existing ones. Do more than just damage - this is RAW energy we are talking about. It's time to think bigger than what WoTC imagined, especially to make this balanced with giants like Bio-Sculptor.

Interesting. What kind of stuff would you suggest? Keep in mind I'm still trying to make room for members of this class to still want to take the Kineticest PrC.

[JKTrickster]

Both of these classes involve a heavy use of force like effects that match Telekinetic abilities. Use them for inspiration and draw from them:

Psychic Guardian (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9313592&postcount=1) and the Projector (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=9886577)

Although definitely grant them a Mage Hand, greater SLA that scales with level, REAL telekinetic maneuvers (not that weird Control Objects power) on living targets to shove them to and fro, and maybe even "Walls" or "Cages" of Force/Telekinetic Energy.

The latter can be higher level effects, both as an incentive to continue taking this to level 20, and because those who choose to jump to Kineticest wouldn't have too many Telekinetic abilities.

Also you can look at the Mage of the Unseen Hand from Complete Warrior - it provides "power up" of the Telekinesis spell. Why not apply the power ups as one class feature?

If you notice, the Telekinetic manuevers actually break up the 1 spell into 3 powers - which is pretty dumb. Maybe change that?

I'm looking for a way for this class to learn something instead of powers....it increases their versatility and takes advantage of their gigantic list of powers known (which would be boring compared to getting new forms/templates/techniques).

And this is the only class that doesn't have the ability to halve PP cost of powers at level 20. Is their capstone really strong enough to justify that?

[Pyromancer999]

Both of these classes involve a heavy use of force like effects that match Telekinetic abilities. Use them for inspiration and draw from them:

Psychic Guardian (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9313592&postcount=1) and the Projector (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=9886577)

Although definitely grant them a Mage Hand, greater SLA that scales with level, REAL telekinetic maneuvers (not that weird Control Objects power) on living targets to shove them to and fro, and maybe even "Walls" or "Cages" of Force/Telekinetic Energy.

The latter can be higher level effects, both as an incentive to continue taking this to level 20, and because those who choose to jump to Kineticest wouldn't have too many Telekinetic abilities.

Also you can look at the Mage of the Unseen Hand from Complete Warrior - it provides "power up" of the Telekinesis spell. Why not apply the power ups as one class feature?

If you notice, the Telekinetic manuevers actually break up the 1 spell into 3 powers - which is pretty dumb. Maybe change that?

I'm looking for a way for this class to learn something instead of powers....it increases their versatility and takes advantage of their gigantic list of powers known (which would be boring compared to getting new forms/templates/techniques).

The thing is, this class mainly focuses around energy kinetics, not really telekinesis. So, it'd sort of be out of place.


And this is the only class that doesn't have the ability to halve PP cost of powers at level 20. Is their capstone really strong enough to justify that?
Well, I was thinking of giving them get free dice to augment their Energy Blast with.

[JKTrickster]

Well energy kinetics is a broad idea - how is that mutually exclusive from telekinetics? You are focusing energy on a very visible form - energy attacks and shields. I am merely pointing out that energy can be much more subtle as well.

You are very focused on making this class as blasty as possible. I am wondering why.

[Pyromancer999]

Well energy kinetics is a broad idea - how is that mutually exclusive from telekinetics? You are focusing energy on a very visible form - energy attacks and shields. I am merely pointing out that energy can be much more subtle as well.

You are very focused on making this class as blasty as possible. I am wondering why.

True, energy can be subtle, but it's usually not. Mainly, Kineticists ARE as blasty as possible, at least in my experience.

[UserClone]

A quick nitpick - did you actually mean 3x(class level+Int mod) for the pool? Because without the parentheses, PEMDAS means you'll be just tacking on your int mod after the multiplication, which makes for WAY fewer dice. So, for example, do you intend a 3rd level energy weaver with an Int of 18 to have 3x3+4=13 dice, or 3(3+4)= 21 dice?

[Pyromancer999]

A quick nitpick - did you actually mean 3x(class level+Int mod) for the pool? Because without the parentheses, PEMDAS means you'll be just tacking on your int mod after the multiplication, which makes for WAY fewer dice. So, for example, do you intend a 3rd level energy weaver with an Int of 18 to have 3x3+4=13 dice, or 3(3+4)= 21 dice?
I did intend the first one. Why would that be too few dice?

[JKTrickster]

True, energy can be subtle, but it's usually not. Mainly, Kineticists ARE as blasty as possible, at least in my experience.

But this is THE psionic Master of Psychokinesis. There are PLENTY of psychokinetic powers that focus defense (Inertial Armor) or subtler mechanics (telekinetic sphere, psionic) and NOT blasty focused powers.

This class restricts itself to blasting and ignores the few utilities that the Psychokinetic discipline offers. For a master of Psionic Blasting this fits the bill. For Psychokinetic discipline, this doesn't do the discipline justice.

[Lix Lorn]

Okay, you should REALLY allow expanded knowledge to work. Seriously. Blasting is, as is my understanding, the optimisationally WEAKEST archetype for any form of caster/manifester. At least throw them a bone.

It might be good to list what forces you can take in Chosen Wielding. You really ought to mention that they manifest off Int somewhere. I'd also suggest copy-pasting the whole standard spiel from the psion about save DCs and the like.
Also, Energy Companion might be trickier than you think. Do they get a con score? What is it? How slow do they move?

[Pyromancer999]

Okay, you should REALLY allow expanded knowledge to work. Seriously. Blasting is, as is my understanding, the optimisationally WEAKEST archetype for any form of caster/manifester. At least throw them a bone.

Hmm.... True. Might as well allow that


It might be good to list what forces you can take in Chosen Wielding. You really ought to mention that they manifest off Int somewhere. I'd also suggest copy-pasting the whole standard spiel from the psion about save DCs and the like.

Forces? And yeah, will add manifesting off Int somewhere.


Also, Energy Companion might be trickier than you think. Do they get a con score? What is it? How slow do they move?
All the same as the equivalent Fire Elemental, except for things that would be modified by its being treated as the caster's psicrystal.


But this is THE psionic Master of Psychokinesis. There are PLENTY of psychokinetic powers that focus defense (Inertial Armor) or subtler mechanics (telekinetic sphere, psionic) and NOT blasty focused powers.

This class restricts itself to blasting and ignores the few utilities that the Psychokinetic discipline offers. For a master of Psionic Blasting this fits the bill. For Psychokinetic discipline, this doesn't do the discipline justice.

Good enough arguement. I could probably add stuff like that in as an Energy Manipulation option.

[Lix Lorn]

Hmm.... True. Might as well allow that


Forces? And yeah, will add manifesting off Int somewhere.
Ack. I meant elements.


All the same as the equivalent Fire Elemental, except for things that would be modified by its being treated as the caster's psicrystal.
Might want to clarify that then.

[Pyromancer999]

Ack. I meant elements.

Well, they are listed, along with the corresponding elementals for Energy Companion.


Might want to clarify that then.
I was pretty sure it was clarified. Well, can you give me any tips on how to really clarify this?

[Lix Lorn]

Well, they are listed, along with the corresponding elementals for Energy Companion.
Yes, but people are stupid.


I was pretty sure it was clarified. Well, can you give me any tips on how to really clarify this?
Say that it uses all statistics and abilites of an elemental of the appropriate size, as well as those granted to a psicrystal of that level, minus flight, propulsion and alertness.

[JKTrickster]

I don't think there's a need for necessarily non-Psychokinesis powers. Again, I think if you look hard enough, you can find a certain subset of Psychokinesis powers that don't focus on blasting as much. Then build inherent support for those powers from your class features. Or even just give outright new abilities that are semi related to energy use, control, manipulation and creation.

One thing I liked about the Esoteric Augur was your willingness to go WAY outside of the bounds of the powers a Seer gets (techniques being such a novel thing and all). That type of creativity is what you'll need to ultimately finish this project - otherwise, why not just take a Psion and restrict how you choose your powers/what powers you use?

Also I'm beginning to think maybe not all the capstones should be "Half PP cost". Perhaps if all of them did match more of the disciplines key strengths instead of just saving PP, it would be more thematic and appropriate.

EDIT: Have you thought about an ability the Energy Weaver can switch out for powers? I feel all the classes should have access to something like that.

[Pyromancer999]

I don't think there's a need for necessarily non-Psychokinesis powers. Again, I think if you look hard enough, you can find a certain subset of Psychokinesis powers that don't focus on blasting as much. Then build inherent support for those powers from your class features. Or even just give outright new abilities that are semi related to energy use, control, manipulation and creation.

One thing I liked about the Esoteric Augur was your willingness to go WAY outside of the bounds of the powers a Seer gets (techniques being such a novel thing and all). That type of creativity is what you'll need to ultimately finish this project - otherwise, why not just take a Psion and restrict how you choose your powers/what powers you use?

Also I'm beginning to think maybe not all the capstones should be "Half PP cost". Perhaps if all of them did match more of the disciplines key strengths instead of just saving PP, it would be more thematic and appropriate.

EDIT: Have you thought about an ability the Energy Weaver can switch out for powers? I feel all the classes should have access to something like that.

[/QUOTE]

True enough. I've actually been toying with allowing the Energy Weaver to learn spells that have the energy descriptor for their kind of energy chosen through Chosen Wielding, and will probably add that soon. Also, I've been thinking of revamping the capstones of a few, with this one getting sort of an Energy Over-Armor of sorts.

[JKTrickster]

Yeah revamping the capstones can be fun - half PP costs is great and all but pretty bland.

Allowing access to spells? Hmm interesting....although depends on what spells since I don't think "energy spells" are an official term.

And Energy Over Armor of sorts? huh?

[Dead_Jester]

Actually, allowing Evocation and Conjuration spells from the Energy Weaver's chosen type does sound pretty nice. It would also give them some much needed utility and give them something to use those tons of powers known on.

[Pyromancer999]

Yeah revamping the capstones can be fun - half PP costs is great and all but pretty bland.

Yeah. Will do it after I've made the ones for Telepathy and Psychoportation.


Allowing access to spells? Hmm interesting....although depends on what spells since I don't think "energy spells" are an official term.

Spells have energy descriptors. This is a fact.


And Energy Over Armor of sorts? huh?
It'd sort of make the Energy Weaver look like this:

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.deviantart.com/download/110400826/Anima__Fire_elemental_Boss_by_Wen_M.jpg&imgrefurl=http://wen-m.deviantart.com/art/Anima-Fire-elemental-Boss-110400826&usg=__AWAz23kAYWEWlFZu1F_ImPieWRE=&h=1152&w=1152&sz=918&hl=en&start=0&sig2=LV0uXgJnw4XSNCnc5FsvGA&zoom=1&tbnid=2AFQqrrMYMxTqM:&tbnh=130&tbnw=139&ei=ScVfTdHCIoKSgQe9jsi7AQ&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dfire%2Belemental%26hl%3Den%26gbv%3D2% 26biw%3D1280%26bih%3D591%26tbs%3Disch:1&itbs=1&iact=hc&vpx=505&vpy=109&dur=4479&hovh=225&hovw=225&tx=160&ty=162&oei=ScVfTdHCIoKSgQe9jsi7AQ&page=1&ndsp=25&ved=1t:429,r:3,s:0


Actually, allowing Evocation and Conjuration spells from the Energy Weaver's chosen type does sound pretty nice. It would also give them some much needed utility and give them something to use those tons of powers known on.
Yeah, that's why I'm considering adding it, although there's always the Transmutation spell Elemental Form to be considered for adding.

[Dead_Jester]

Yeah, that's why I'm considering adding it, although there's always the Transmutation spell Elemental Form to be considered for adding.

Of course, you could always add spells from other schools and block some from Conjuration or Evocation, but it's really about giving more versatility to the archetype that has the least.

[Pyromancer999]

Of course, you could always add spells from other schools and block some from Conjuration or Evocation, but it's really about giving more versatility to the archetype that has the least.

I think it's pretty okay to add all the spells with the appropriate energy descriptor. Shouldn't be unbalanced.

[JKTrickster]

Spells have energy descriptors. This is a fact.

It'd sort of make the Energy Weaver look like this:
http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.deviantart.com/download/110400826/Anima__Fire_elemental_Boss_by_Wen_M.jpg&imgrefurl=http://wen-m.deviantart.com/art/Anima-Fire-elemental-Boss-110400826&usg=__AWAz23kAYWEWlFZu1F_ImPieWRE=&h=1152&w=1152&sz=918&hl=en&start=0&sig2=LV0uXgJnw4XSNCnc5FsvGA&zoom=1&tbnid=2AFQqrrMYMxTqM:&tbnh=130&tbnw=139&ei=ScVfTdHCIoKSgQe9jsi7AQ&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dfire%2Belemental%26hl%3Den%26gbv%3D2% 26biw%3D1280%26bih%3D591%26tbs%3Disch:1&itbs=1&iact=hc&vpx=505&vpy=109&dur=4479&hovh=225&hovw=225&tx=160&ty=162&oei=ScVfTdHCIoKSgQe9jsi7AQ&page=1&ndsp=25&ved=1t:429,r:3,s:0



Oh I didn't realize that was what you're talking about.

And I can't see the image so still not sure what you're referring to.

[Pyromancer999]

And I can't see the image so still not sure what you're referring to.

Sorry, here's (http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.deviantart.com/download/110400826/Anima__Fire_elemental_Boss_by_Wen_M.jpg&imgrefurl=http://wen-m.deviantart.com/art/Anima-Fire-elemental-Boss-110400826&usg=__AWAz23kAYWEWlFZu1F_ImPieWRE=&h=1152&w=1152&sz=918&hl=en&start=0&sig2=LV0uXgJnw4XSNCnc5FsvGA&zoom=1&tbnid=2AFQqrrMYMxTqM:&tbnh=130&tbnw=139&ei=ScVfTdHCIoKSgQe9jsi7AQ&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dfire%2Belemental%26hl%3Den%26gbv%3D2% 26biw%3D1280%26bih%3D591%26tbs%3Disch:1&itbs=1&iact=hc&vpx=505&vpy=109&dur=4479&hovh=225&hovw=225&tx=160&ty=162&oei=ScVfTdHCIoKSgQe9jsi7AQ&page=1&ndsp=25&ved=1t:429,r:3,s:0) the URL to the Image I was talking about.

[JKTrickster]

Oh okay I see. But how is that any different from an Upgraded Energy Shield?

Perhaps something more akin to controlling Mass Energy on a wide scale? Or even making their entire body into complete beings of energy?

[Pyromancer999]

Oh okay I see. But how is that any different from an Upgraded Energy Shield?

I was thinking of a few upgrades to some abilties and other perks while in this form.


Perhaps something more akin to controlling Mass Energy on a wide scale? Or even making their entire body into complete beings of energy?

Bingo.

[JKTrickster]

Hmm...complete beings of energy. There HAS to be a big boost to that.

There are many Conjuration spells that would step on the Energy Weaver's toes (although that's mainly because WoTC really just gave Conjuration too many spells). I'm afraid that the Transient Psyche might overstep on the Energy Weaver's domain here.

[Pyromancer999]

There are many Conjuration spells that would step on the Energy Weaver's toes (although that's mainly because WoTC really just gave Conjuration too many spells). I'm afraid that the Transient Psyche might overstep on the Energy Weaver's domain here.

Well, remember: Transient Psyches have a harder time learning Conjuration spells that summon creatures as powers. Alternatively, just ban Conjuration spells that have energy descriptors for the Transient Psyche, although that would be preferably avoided.

[JKTrickster]

Well the issue is the energy descriptor Conjuration spells, so why not ban them for the Transient Psyche? It doesn't match their fluff anyway.

[Pyromancer999]

Well the issue is the energy descriptor Conjuration spells, so why not ban them for the Transient Psyche? It doesn't match their fluff anyway.

Hmmm... That should work. I'll think it over.

[Dead_Jester]

Well the issue is the energy descriptor Conjuration spells, so why not ban them for the Transient Psyche? It doesn't match their fluff anyway.

I agree here,

And did you plan on creating a central database for your psionic classes (or at least provide links for all of them in your sig)? It would definitely make comparing them easier.

[Pyromancer999]

And did you plan on creating a central database for your psionic classes (or at least provide links for all of them in your sig)? It would definitely make comparing them easier.

Once I get some ideas for additional stuff for these classes, yes, I will create a central thread with links.

[JKTrickster]

Oh yeah this class should develop the ability to branch out their Chosen Wielding. Since they are the masters of all energy, I don't see why they shouldn't be able to expand their domain as the level up.

[Pyromancer999]

Oh yeah this class should develop the ability to branch out their Chosen Wielding. Since they are the masters of all energy, I don't see why they shouldn't be able to expand their domain as the level up.

Re-Look at the Energy Manipulation abilities. They do.

[Pyromancer999]

Changes made:

-Capstone redone
-Energy Resistance/Immunity-piercing ability added
-Can now learn spells with the appropriate Energy descriptor as powers

[Benly]

One oddity this set of changes creates is that Fire Weavers can learn spells like Elemental Swarm and other Energy Weavers can't, because only Fire is both an elemental and an energy descriptor.

[Pyromancer999]

One oddity this set of changes creates is that Fire Weavers can learn spells like Elemental Swarm and other Energy Weavers can't, because only Fire is both an elemental and an energy descriptor.

Hmm.....true. That might be a problem.