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View Full Version : An evil character in the party (3.5)



CapnCJ
2011-02-15, 04:40 PM
So, we've been running a demonhunting campaign for some time, with characters dying or leaving quite a lot, there's a high character turnover. The problem is with one of the characters in the group, a LE half-fiend Warlock.

The guy that plays him is a very good RPer, and has had some brilliantly memorable characters in the past, but he doesn't really seem to be trying atall with this one. The char runs around closer to CE than LE, and HATES the rest of the party. He only tolerates us because he's forced to (The party was assembled by a Trumpet Archon). He deliberately rubs us all the wrong way, and often challenges us to fights if we disagree with him on anything. The problem is that he could probably down any one of us in combat.

I've never been tempted to assassinate a fellw PC before, but for the sake of holding the group together I don't know if i'll have a choice - And it gets worse. A Paladin has just joined the group.

What do I do, folks?

Edit: Oh, and he has AMAZING Bluff and Disguise checks - IC we don't even know he's a half-fiend.

Saint GoH
2011-02-15, 04:52 PM
The guy that plays him is a very good RPer, and has had some brilliantly memorable characters in the past, but he doesn't really seem to be trying atall with this one. The char runs around closer to CE than LE, and HATES the rest of the party. He only tolerates us because he's forced to (The party was assembled by a Trumpet Archon). He deliberately rubs us all the wrong way, and often challenges us to fights if we disagree with him on anything. The problem is that he could probably down any one of us in combat.


Sounds like a pretty good RPer in my opinion. He is aware he could down you guys, yet he is holding back. CE would trump you right then and there. He has stayed with the party, despite a strong dislike for you. True CE would say "Eff you Archon" and leave. Or slit your throats and eat a baby.

As for the actual question. If the player is smart, he will recognize the paladin and likely turn into a surly character. His evil will likely be more subtle then outright. Your job? I've only assassinated a PC once, and he was pretty upset over it. Some people take their characters to heart, especially if they feel they are roleplaying them quite well.

/2 cents

CapnCJ
2011-02-15, 04:55 PM
I know this guy, the only reason he hasn't killed us is because the DM would be massively angry with him and probably go out of his way to kill his character. Walking out on the Archon would be pretty much walking out of the campaign.

Edit: And as for challenging us, it's immaturity more than anything. A couple of times he's challenged us to combat out of the game, just to prove his character is SOOOO MUCH stronger.

Of course, someone should point out that he's using Hideous Blow without provoking AoOs >.< He knows it, but he wont say anything to the DM and i'm not gonna rat him out.

Typewriter
2011-02-15, 04:57 PM
You should never play a character who can't work in the party environment, regardless of alignment. Sounds like he needs to be talked to about this, and the issue may be having his character leave the party. Killing him won't necessarily resolve the issue - it might create a bigger problem.

The group should talk to the player about the problems they're having and tell him that it's getting to the point where if he doesn't change or leave the party, he's going to get attacked.

Hyudra
2011-02-15, 05:00 PM
Sounds like it's making the game pretty unenjoyable.

What I'm considering is, if he's the sole evil character in the group, defying you as a collective, why not take him up on his offer to fight? Sure, he might be able to down any one of you in combat, but if you each take a turn, then one of you is liable to win:

CE Warlock: I say we destroy it.
Group: No, let's not.
Warlock: Wanna fight?
Party member #1: Yeah. Let's see what you've got.
*They fight, member #1 hopefully wounds or disables the Warlock.*
Party member #2: My turn. I'm getting sick of your attitude.
*They fight, member #2 hopefully takes him down another notch.
Party member #3: Maybe you're getting the point. We don't like you, we don't agree with you. Shape up or ship out.
*cue third fight*.
With a little strategy in the order you fight him in, the point should get across. Especially if you do it again the next time he pushes your buttons.

slaydemons
2011-02-15, 05:04 PM
my advice If he keeps pissing every single other member off enough to the point of violence and you have someone who is choatic nuetral mkill him in his sleep if possible never piss people off that have knives and thats why. imo

Safety Sword
2011-02-15, 05:09 PM
So, we've been running a demonhunting campaign for some time, with characters dying or leaving quite a lot, there's a high character turnover. The problem is with one of the characters in the group, a LE half-fiend Warlock.

The guy that plays him is a very good RPer, and has had some brilliantly memorable characters in the past, but he doesn't really seem to be trying atall with this one. The char runs around closer to CE than LE, and HATES the rest of the party. He only tolerates us because he's forced to (The party was assembled by a Trumpet Archon). He deliberately rubs us all the wrong way, and often challenges us to fights if we disagree with him on anything. The problem is that he could probably down any one of us in combat.

I've never been tempted to assassinate a fellw PC before, but for the sake of holding the group together I don't know if i'll have a choice - And it gets worse. A Paladin has just joined the group.

What do I do, folks?

Edit: Oh, and he has AMAZING Bluff and Disguise checks - IC we don't even know he's a half-fiend.

I recommend what I do as DM for trouble characters: Kill it with fire. Or cold, electricity, acid, etc.

Dispel Magic, Detect Evil, righteousness to the cause of good and a sword ought to fix your issues. :smallamused:

CapnCJ
2011-02-15, 05:12 PM
I don't really want to kill him off, as the player really likes the character. I'm gonna chat to the DM tomorrow, see what he thinks. Do I point out he's ignoring the AoO he should be taking? I find this sort of thing a little uncomfortable.

Safety Sword
2011-02-15, 05:19 PM
I don't really want to kill him off, as the player really likes the character. I'm gonna chat to the DM tomorrow, see what he thinks. Do I point out he's ignoring the AoO he should be taking? I find this sort of thing a little uncomfortable.

It's also called "cheating" if he knows about it and is ignoring it. As a DM I like cheaters, I feel fine about picking on them. And they soon get the message.

I prefer to play with people who play fair (obviously). Most people would. Your DM might appreciate the heads up as he might not be 100% familiar with Hideous Blow?

CapnCJ
2011-02-15, 05:29 PM
It just never occured to us that it provoked an AoO. I'll raise the issue tomorrow.

Safety Sword
2011-02-15, 05:47 PM
It just never occured to us that it provoked an AoO. I'll raise the issue tomorrow.

Just add moral compass to my list of uses :smallcool:

Elric VIII
2011-02-15, 06:11 PM
Just wondering, what's your party's power level? If a Warlock is capable of killing you then you're probobly tier 3-4. You could always see where the fight goes and if you lose reroll a more powerful character that is a relative seeking vengeance. You could play it really covert for a while, scoping out the power level of the person capable of killing your sibling (or w/e) before deciding to challenge him. This would make for some interesting roleplaying that also gets rid of the problem character.

Safety Sword
2011-02-15, 06:30 PM
Just wondering, what's your party's power level? If a Warlock is capable of killing you then you're probobly tier 3-4. You could always see where the fight goes and if you lose reroll a more powerful character that is a relative seeking vengeance. You could play it really covert for a while, scoping out the power level of the person capable of killing your sibling (or w/e) before deciding to challenge him. This would make for some interesting roleplaying that also gets rid of the problem character.

Welcome to the escalation game, however. Might end in tears.

Fallbot
2011-02-15, 06:32 PM
Just wondering, what's your party's power level? If a Warlock is capable of killing you then you're probobly tier 3-4. You could always see where the fight goes and if you lose reroll a more powerful character that is a relative seeking vengeance. You could play it really covert for a while, scoping out the power level of the person capable of killing your sibling (or w/e) before deciding to challenge him. This would make for some interesting roleplaying that also gets rid of the problem character.

I cant see that going anywhere good. At best it's going to end in bad feelings and at worst the campaign gets destroyed when he makes a character to get revenge on you, so you make another revenge character and it all degenerates into PvP.

Best to just explain to the player he's making the game un-fun for everyone, and ask him to tone down the jerkishness.

Edit: Succinctly ninja'd

true_shinken
2011-02-15, 06:36 PM
Of course, someone should point out that he's using Hideous Blow without provoking AoOs >.< He knows it, but he wont say anything to the DM and i'm not gonna rat him out.
...You're afraid to fight a Warlock with LA that depends on Hideous Blow?!?!
DUDE! This guy is a wimp.

Chilingsworth
2011-02-15, 06:36 PM
One thing to consider: an Evil character can come in handy. If nothing else, they're immune to Blasphemy. So, when the demons use it to incapacitate the party, at least you'll have one member able to act. Of course, this isn't a good thing if he's actively hostile...

Still, if you can somehow salvage the character (partially turn him or something) you'll have quite an asset for the party.

togapika
2011-02-15, 07:02 PM
Slit his throat in his sleep?

slaydemons
2011-02-15, 07:29 PM
Slit his throat in his sleep?

Thats what I said and if there is any CN players they will do it for nothing

Safety Sword
2011-02-15, 07:49 PM
Edit: Succinctly ninja'd

It's how I roll. :smallsmile:

Toliudar
2011-02-15, 07:54 PM
As has been pointed out, this is a problem best dealt with out of character. Point out that a selfish lawful evil character forced to work with others increases his odds of surviving if he isn't loathed by the people who have his back.

Maybe he could take one of the other PC's in an open fight. Who cares? If he threatens to kill you if you disagree with him, the rest of you have every right to gang up and pound him into the ground. But it shouldn't come to that.

You don't mention anyone talking to the player and telling him that this constant conflict is making the game less fun for everybody else. If this doesn't lead to change, then it's not good RP, it's a player putting his own enjoyment above that of others.

JaronK
2011-02-15, 08:11 PM
Trump him with an even better evil character... a necromancer that is in the party because he likes being liked and wants treasure and safety. Such a character can seem totally good to the rest of the party and doesn't cause tension most of the time, and yet could just kill this Warlock when the party isn't looking and re-raise him as a Dread Warrior or something like that (maybe pin him to a wall and turn him into a Necropolitan) then use Turn Undead reducers to rebuke the guy. Now just give the order "hide the fact that you're undead and that I did this, and don't betray or get in the way of the party." Problem solved, and the next morning no one's the wiser. Now he gets to keep his character with extra complexity!

JaronK

Twilightwyrm
2011-02-16, 12:29 AM
Geas/Quest or Mark of Justice him into submission. All you need is to get into a bad enough fight that he gets knocked out (happens to anyone from time to time), stabilize him, then put the mark on him while he is unconscious. Better yet, wait until he's sleeping, get in your best manacles, or failing this rope expert, and write it on him while he's restrained. Hell, you could probably put multiple marks on him if you wanted, even, if you are smart, forcing him into accepting a Geas/Quest with them. Sure, its a ****ty thing to do and the player will probably be pissed at you, but probably not as pissed as if you outright killed his character. And while the DM might not necessarily appreciate it, it will piss him off less than killing the man. Plus, if he is smart, he can turn it into a good role playing opportunity. In fact, try and spin it that way out of character, in addition to informing him of the discontent with his jackassery at this point if you wish. Sort of an "we are putting you on probation" type deal.

Kyouhen
2011-02-16, 12:41 AM
Welcome to the escalation game, however. Might end in tears.

Unless of course you cut out the whole "character who's purpose is to kill the warlock" thing and make it so it's just a tier 1 character that's joined the party. Be a good party member, and when the warlock decides to threaten you if he doesn't get his way knock him down and continue with whatever you were doing. Don't kill him, even something as simple as paralyzing him or putting him to sleep would work. The important thing is that the warlock no longer believes he's the strongest members of the party.

Safety Sword
2011-02-16, 12:48 AM
Unless of course you cut out the whole "character who's purpose is to kill the warlock" thing and make it so it's just a tier 1 character that's joined the party. Be a good party member, and when the warlock decides to threaten you if he doesn't get his way knock him down and continue with whatever you were doing. Don't kill him, even something as simple as paralyzing him or putting him to sleep would work. The important thing is that the warlock no longer believes he's the strongest members of the party.

I agree with you. But that's not what was in the quote I responded to.

I still prefer to play the character I want instead of the character I need to curb stomp the other character that isn't working out in the party.

Kyouhen
2011-02-16, 01:24 AM
I agree with you. But that's not what was in the quote I responded to.

I still prefer to play the character I want instead of the character I need to curb stomp the other character that isn't working out in the party.

Yeah, I know that wasn't what was in the quote you responded to. I was using it as an alternative to the escalation game. A character that can still be whatever you want it to be, but is capable of putting the problem in it's place if needed. :smalltongue:

And really, any tier 1 or 2 character should be able to deal with a half-fiend warlock without much trouble. Actually I'd be interested in knowing just what this warlock has or what the rest of your party is that he's so much more dangerous. As previously mentioned, with his LA and using Hideous Blow he really shouldn't be too much of a problem.

onthetown
2011-02-16, 06:43 AM
Make a CE or CN character and show him what being annoyingly psychotic is really about. Then he'll either go for that (possible bad side effect) or be so revolted that his Warlock will start to warm up to the party through a series of amusing montages set to 80's pop.

LordBlades
2011-02-16, 07:03 AM
From my own experience with situations like this, it's best to take the player to an out of game talk first. Explain that the way he's RPing is annoying for the rest of the party and ask him to stop.

Best case scenario, he'll apologizes and stop.

Worst case scenario, he'll hide behind 'that's what my character would do', whether justified or not. If so, my advice is do the same. Stop cutting him any slack just because he's a PC. Treat him like you would treat a NPC that does the same things.

CapnCJ
2011-02-16, 07:36 AM
To be honest, I think my new character (Dervish) could probably take him in a fight. We're in a demonhunting campaign, and he carries a Chaotic Outsider Bane sword, and tries to convince us to do the same, but this time i've gone with Evil Outsider Bane. Cold Iron to cut through his DR too. His HP is relatively low, but his saves are fairly good, despite having few class levels - He rolled very good stats and Half Fiend has added to that.

Of course, if i'm fighting him and he decides to fly off, i'm a bit stuck.

Either way, i'm going to tip-off the DM about Hideous Blow provoking AoOs, I always thought it seemd a bit too good.

Oh, and in answer to questions people have been asking, the Party is between level 11 and 13.

Protecar
2011-02-16, 08:14 AM
I'm gonna have to chime in with the OOC comments. As much as I personally enjoy a good PvP grudge match(in character), if he's legitimately lowering the fun level of the other players then that has to be dealt with. After all, fun is the #1 priority, right? :smallbiggrin:

Good luck, the hardest path is often the best one. I hate having to be the guy who expresses this kind of discontent.

panaikhan
2011-02-16, 08:22 AM
Just to chime in - the Paladin will spot him almost as soon as he arrives (you can't bluff Detect Evil as far as I know) and it specifically states Paladins cannot associate with evil characters. It sounds like it boils down to the warlock leaving, the paladin leaving, or the paladin challenging the warlock.

hamishspence
2011-02-17, 08:27 AM
There are various ways of cheating Detect Evil- spells, feats, magic items, planar motes, and so on.

And some splatbooks, like Defenders of the Faith, suggest that a paladin doesn't associate on a continuing basis with evil characters- short term association during a crisis situation may be acceptable.