who would win?

[Raekin]

what if Xykon came to the desert and fought Tarquin for the portal?
That would be EPIC.:smallsmile:
Any ideas who should fight
I vote Xykon,(that dude's got cool powers.)

[Dr.Epic]

what if Xykon came to the desert and fought Tarquin for the portal?
That would be EPIC.:smallsmile:
Any ideas who should fight
I vote Xykon,(that dude's got cool powers.)

Portal? You mean Gate? And, we don't know if Tarquin has a Gate. He may know Girard. That's it.

And yeah, I'm pretty sure Xykon would win. He's an epic level lich sorcerer. Not to mention he took down pretty much the entire Sapphire Guard by himself and then re-killed most of the ghost martyrs.

[Raekin]

Im guessing he has a gate.:smallannoyed:
but you are right about Xy:smallsmile:kon wining

[Kish]

Im guessing he has a gate.:smallannoyed:
...why?

There were five Gates. No more, no less. They play a specific plot role, and that role is not "establish that X villain is important."

[Dr.Epic]

...why?

There were five Gates. No more, no less. They play a specific plot role, and that role is not "establish that X villain is important."

Yeah. If that was the case maybe Miko had a Gate. In fact maybe her heart was the gate. Hmmm?

[Protecar]

Meh, whether or not Tarquin has a gate under his control isn't the issue under debate though. Personally, I think Tarquin IS Girard and thus the father of Elan. :smallcool: (Probably not, but would be epic--literally).

I would say Xykon would win if Tarquin wasn't prepared. But, if Tarquin really knows Girard and he gets a small heads up, Xykon is a dead man(er, lich).

[Querzis]

I would say Xykon would win if Tarquin wasn't prepared. But, if Tarquin really knows Girard and he gets a small heads up, Xykon is a dead man(er, lich).

More like Xykon would utterly destroy Tarquin if he wasnt prepared. But, if Tarquin gets a small heads up then he might last a few hours before Xykon destroy him. Also, even if Tarquin know Girard, why would they be allies? I dont see the Lawful Evil overlord and the Chaotic Neutral guy who hates authority getting along well.

[Dr.Epic]

Meh, whether or not Tarquin has a gate under his control isn't the issue under debate though. Personally, I think Tarquin IS Girard and thus the father of Elan. :smallcool: (Probably not, but would be epic--literally).

Again another "character x is related to character y because they share vague, common character trait z". What proof is there for another of these theories? How old would that make Tarquin?

[Jay R]

You are making the simplistic assumption than "win", for Tarquin, means beating Xykon.

If everything went the way Tarquin planned it, there would be an epic battle in which Xykon would slay the Empress of Blood, name himself the Emperor of Bone, and Tarquin would become his new general.

[Swordpriest]

I agree that Tarquin's victory would consist of manipulating Xykon to do something that Tarquin wanted done, then reaping the fruits after the lich had moved on.

In a straight up fight, though, Xykon would pulverize Tarquin in a few seconds, regardless of who had the drop on whom.

[Protecar]

More like Xykon would utterly destroy Tarquin if he wasnt prepared. But, if Tarquin gets a small heads up then he might last a few hours before Xykon destroy him. Also, even if Tarquin know Girard, why would they be allies? I dont see the Lawful Evil overlord and the Chaotic Neutral guy who hates authority getting along well.

Why is Belkar aligned with Roy and the others? There could be a million reasons that Girard would need/use Tarquin. And vice-versa, actually.

And I am a big fan of Xykon and his power structure, but I don't believe we have seen Tarquin's potential yet.

Edit: @Dr. Epic--Tarquin being Girard would make him as old as Girard is. If Girard is alive, Tarquin is alive, so I'm not sure the significance of that complaint.

And that theory was more of a joke than an actual belief. Still, Girard's a master spellcaster: why would he ever show his true form?

[Swordpriest]

And I am a big fan of Xykon and his power structure, but I don't believe we have seen Tarquin's potential yet.


Tarquin appears to be completely mundane with a couple of magic items. No guy with a dagger is going to take down an epic level lich sorcerer, no matter how many people on the forums like him. :smallwink: He'd go down as easily as Roy did, and maybe easier, since he doesn't even seem to have a Ring of Jumping.

[Protecar]

Tarquin appears to be completely mundane with a couple of magic items. No guy with a dagger is going to take down an epic level lich sorcerer, no matter how many people on the forums like him. :smallwink: He'd go down as easily as Roy did, and maybe easier, since he doesn't even seem to have a Ring of Jumping.

I'm not saying I disagree with your assessment of Tarquin: I also think he seems pretty unremarkable in terms of magic. However, Mr. Burlew's writing has always been rife with interesting twists. I'm only saying is it's not necessarily a one-sided battle. Tarquin, with some forewarning, could mobilize the entire empire of blood. That has to include a few mages somewhere.

[TreesOfDeath]

If Tarquin was strong enough to beat Xykon, he'd do so and add Azure City to his collection.

But no, he knows he isn't strong enough, thats why hes letting the rag tag band of misfits handle it

[Hake]

Tarquin appears to be completely mundane with a couple of magic items. No guy with a dagger is going to take down an epic level lich sorcerer, no matter how many people on the forums like him. :smallwink: He'd go down as easily as Roy did, and maybe easier, since he doesn't even seem to have a Ring of Jumping.


Sure Xykon would likely beat Tarquin in a one vs one fight the same way Roy would beat Vaarsuvius if they were forced to fight with nothing but broadswords. I'm not saying Tarquin would never fight when he's at a disadvantage I'm saying he'd never fight alone especially when he's at a disadvantage (with the exception of against his story's chosen "hero").

The fight would most likely be Xykon, Redcloak, and Tsukiko vs Tarquin's adventuring party and the Empress of Blood at the least.

[Kish]

Sure Xykon would likely beat Tarquin in a one vs one fight the same way Roy would beat Vaarsuvius if they were forced to fight with nothing but broadswords. I'm not saying Tarquin would never fight when he's at a disadvantage I'm saying he'd never fight alone especially when he's at a disadvantage (with the exception of against his story's chosen "hero").

The fight would most likely be Xykon, Redcloak, and Tsukiko vs Tarquin's adventuring party and the Empress of Blood at the least.
In response to which Xykon would laugh, tell Redcloak and Tsukiko to stay out of the way (or let them get beaten up first, depending on his mood) and blast Tarquin and his mid-level goons+red dragon child into a heap of ash.

People are seriously overrating this subplot's villain.

[CletusMusashi]

If Tarquin had opted to team his forces up with, say, Shojo or Lirian or Dorukon... the end result might have been a dead(er) Xykon. That's about as far as I'll go, though.
Unless Malack went undercover as a lizard-zombie.

[Dr.Epic]

If Tarquin had opted to team his forces up with, say, Shojo or Lirian or Dorukon... the end result might have been a dead(er) Xykon. That's about as far as I'll go, though.

I like how the three people you named are not only dead, but two are trapped in a gem Xykon has.

[factotum]

If Tarquin was strong enough to beat Xykon, he'd do so and add Azure City to his collection.


Er, why would he do that? Tarquin's entire strategy involves creating an enormous empire on the Western Continent. Azure City is on the other side of the ocean and thus not of any great interest to him!

Having said that, your conclusion is clearly right--Tarquin alone would be little more than a speedbump for Xykon. If we include the entire forces of the Empire of Blood then that might be a fairer matchup...

[CletusMusashi]

Yeah, but with a little more backup, who knows? Just for one example:
Tarquin might have finished off Xykon, at Lirian's Gate, instead of... blah blah blah, I'm too lazy to put spoilers up for what you already know, so I'll just not say it. Anyway, in that case Lirain would then be mad at Tarquin, but Xykon would be dead.
It's not like Xykon's never lost a fight; it's just that he's always been allowed to get better. Tarquin is more genre-savvy than, for example, Roy.
Actually, since I really have no idea how large or versatile the EoB's forces really are, I'm even open to a simple "Tarquin's army might beat Xykon's army." I haven't the slightest idea how high-level any of Tarquin's associates are, or even what balance of classes he'd bring to the party. But it would have to be a huge group battle, with Tarquin staying far, far away from Xykon, and ultimately, even if he lost, I think Xykon would still get away and survive.

[Gege32]

Ok. General charges. Xykon casts magic missile, meteor storm, hold person, then sends in his HOBGOBLIN army with redcloak, a cleric who can turn corpses into undead. Even if tarquin does kill xykon, the phylactery will regrow him someone in the ocean. Being undead, he doesn't need air, so he just teleports or something, takes his hob/undead army, and smash tarquin. Go Xykon!!!:smallamused:

[Querzis]

Having said that, your conclusion is clearly right--Tarquin alone would be little more than a speedbump for Xykon. If we include the entire forces of the Empire of Blood then that might be a fairer matchup...

I dont see why. Only pretty high-level people could get through Xykon DR, AC and magical resistance. You could throw an entire army of level 1-5 on him while he was sleeping and it woudnt even wake him up. Not to mention the fact that Xykon, Redcloak and Tsukiko will just raise the dead of both armies. Armies are useless against Xykon. If Tarquin party cant beat Xykon then their armies wont help them and they cant beat Xykon.

I really dunno if you guys are overestimating Tarquin or underestimating Xykon (or both) but no amount of preparation could help Tarquin beat Xykon. If Tarquin is smart (and he is) he wont even try to fight Xykon. Tarquin will just obey him for as long as he stay there and hope he'll go away soon.

[SPoD]

In a one-on-one fight, Xykon smashes Tarquin every time. No amount of reasonable preparation changes this. Tarquin is not Batman. The best he can hope for is to avoid fighting at all.

However, Tarquin DOES have five powerful adventurer allies, one of which is the high priest of a Death God and thus likely to have some kickin' anti-undead spells prepared every day. If Tarquin gathers his five allies AND knows what's coming, Tarquin's team could conceivably beat Xykon.

Of course, there are way too many unknowns to be sure. Tarquin and his allies could be epic, in which case I would bet on them to win, or they could be in their teens, level-wise, which would make it a toss-up. If they are any lower than 15th level, Xykon wins without effort. Also, Xykon plus Redcloak plus Tsukiko vs. Tarquin, Malack, and his other four allies has even more variables.

[Irbis]

However, Tarquin DOES have five powerful adventurer allies, one of which is the high priest of a Death God and thus likely to have some kickin' anti-undead spells prepared every day. If Tarquin gathers his five allies AND knows what's coming, Tarquin's team could conceivably beat Xykon.

Pretty much, yes.


Of course, there are way too many unknowns to be sure. Tarquin and his allies could be epic, in which case I would bet on them to win, or they could be in their teens, level-wise, which would make it a toss-up. If they are any lower than 15th level, Xykon wins without effort. Also, Xykon plus Redcloak plus Tsukiko vs. Tarquin, Malack, and his other four allies has even more variables.

Tarquin crushed 15th level Bard/Swordsman with +3 keen rapier using non-magical dagger. That, and I bet he isn't lower level than Bozzok, who was 17-18th. Hell, I'd bet on Tarquin beating Redcloak, especially after seeing Miko do it.

[Felixaar]

I think if you gave Tarquin enough time, he could develope a scheme that would put him on the winning side of almost anything, including a confrontation with Xykon. Also, if it was army vs. army I think Tarquin might be able to be victorious, but probably could not take Azure City - it's always hard to take an opposing city, even in disrepair, and to do so would include a long and expensive process of moving his troops.

[rayne_dragon]

Tarquin's main strength seems to be genre-savviness. Given that Xykon is a big bad who needs to be taken down by heroes, I think Tarquin would avoid fighting with Xykon. I also get the feeling Xykon is not the kind of guy to get sucked into Tarquin's headgames if they don't match what he wants anyways. Basically, I don't think the two would get into a situation where they have to fight and if they do they would quickly find a way not to. I think Xykon and his forces are strong enough to take on an unprepared Empire of Blood, but if Tarquin has warning I feel like he and his buddies could put up enough of a fight to give Xykon et al a long grueling war. One on one Xykon is probably capable of killing Tarquin, although it would likely be a very dramatic fight.

[CletusMusashi]

The main way to beat Xykon is to figure out how to find his phylactery before he does. Once its location is known, it can be destroyed from afar magically, or teleported to someplace easier to destroy... once Xykon is no longer immortal his overconfidence can be his undoing. I mean, we've seen him beaten down to a pile of bones by a simple single-class fighter, so surprises do sometimes happen. Doesn't mean he's automatically beatable, but certainly indicate he's automatically UNbeatable, either.

[profitofrage]

yea im gonna say that if Tarquin had prep time Xykon wouldnt stand a chance.
Where talking about a lich so full of himself he was forced to retreat under threat of total destruction by Roy.
Roy < then Tarquin...afterall Tarquin was apart of an adventuring party to..one that was going on much longer then Roy's and ultimatly ended up taking over the continant more or less.

If Roy can best an unprepared Xykon with little planning and simple bezerk rage...a tactical and strategic genious like Tarquin could with a reasonably high chance beat Xykon. If were allowing Xykon to have his strengths (magic) play apart in the battle its only fair we allow Tarquin to have his to. His strengths being planning and the people he surrounds himself with.
I.e his adventuring party + the HUGE amount of resources he has available to him from controlling a continant for god knows how long.

If an adventuring party of lower level (order of the stick) can do it, then Tarquins mob sure can with there large amount of resources.

[factotum]

If Roy can best an unprepared Xykon with little planning and simple bezerk rage...

You're kind of ignoring the fact that Roy had a little help from an epic-level warding spell there. If that fight had taken place anywhere other than Dorukan's Dungeon Xykon would have curbstomped Roy and the rest of the Order--as proven later when Roy (who had gained some levels and a more powerful sword at this point) was barely able to scratch Xykon on the back of the zombie dragon.

[profitofrage]

You're kind of ignoring the fact that Roy had a little help from an epic-level warding spell there. If that fight had taken place anywhere other than Dorukan's Dungeon Xykon would have curbstomped Roy and the rest of the Order--as proven later when Roy (who had gained some levels and a more powerful sword at this point) was barely able to scratch Xykon on the back of the zombie dragon.

While this is very true all Tarquin would need is an equivilent powerful warding spell. Considering he had the resourcefulness to take over a nation and rule it untill everyone else teamed up against him id say he probably could grab ahold of said power and employ it with a reasonable chance of success. We have to remember hes not just "some leader" he was the leader of an adventuring party who has managed to accomplish far more then the order of the stick has...yet they seem to be be expected to be strong enough to take on xykon.

[factotum]

yet they seem to be be expected to be strong enough to take on xykon.

Not by me, they're not! The Order at their current assumed levels versus Xykon, Tsukiko and Redcloak at theirs results in a win for Team Evil every time. Something has to happen between now and the final battle that balances that out or else it'll be a massive cop-out for the Order to win, IMHO.

[Forum Explorer]

Tarquin could win because he would clean up Xykon after he had exhuasted himself against Girard. He would also use his full party plus the empress of blood. Plus he would let the OotS to fight first as well.

[Fontaine]

Xykon would win, he could just blast them all. Well, Girard might be a problem, but I think Xykon could take care of him.

[CletusMusashi]

Does Malack still get to dress up as a lizard-zombie?

[Forum Explorer]

Xykon would win, he could just blast them all. Well, Girard might be a problem, but I think Xykon could take care of him.

I don't think Xykon can take out Girard and the OotS and Tarquin's crew. I don't even think he can take out Girard plus OotS. Girard's illusions will go a long way to burning out Xykon's spells just like the ghost-matyres did. Plus he could easily incapacitate the rest of Team Evil. Even if Xykon manages to pin Girard down and energy drain him to death, the OotS will be able to finish him off and if somehow they couldn't, Tarquin will come it with the Empress and his crew and clean up with cool magic items to make it even more one sided.

[factotum]

Why is everyone assuming Girard will be (a) alive and (b) helping out in this fight? His little speech in the desert implies more than ordinary amounts of paranoia--I don't think he's going to be helping anyone but himself.

[Forum Explorer]

Why is everyone assuming Girard will be (a) alive and (b) helping out in this fight? His little speech in the desert implies more than ordinary amounts of paranoia--I don't think he's going to be helping anyone but himself.

Everyone, I thought it was just me? :smallconfused:

Its because I think Tarquin is a clever enough manipulator and planner to make sure that Girard and/or the OotS will end up fighting Xykon right before his crew and him does.

[Morthis]

While this is very true all Tarquin would need is an equivilent powerful warding spell. Considering he had the resourcefulness to take over a nation and rule it untill everyone else teamed up against him id say he probably could grab ahold of said power and employ it with a reasonable chance of success. We have to remember hes not just "some leader" he was the leader of an adventuring party who has managed to accomplish far more then the order of the stick has...yet they seem to be be expected to be strong enough to take on xykon.

Epic level characters are supposed to be a pretty big deal and very rare. We've seen Haley question before whether a cleric capable of casting true resurrection even exists, and that's only level 17, not 21+. I doubt there's epic level casters on every corner of the street that Tarquin can just bug for some epic warding spells.

I think people are grossly underestimating what Xykon can do, simply because he often doesn't care and likes to goof around. Keep in mind that he already beat two epic level opponents, a wizard and a druid, among the most powerful classes in D&D and both with plenty of time to prepare for the fight. Granted Lirian beat him the first time around, although she didn't do so hot the second time around. You could say both Durokan and Lirian both played very poorly, which is true, but non-optimized characters seem to be the norm for oots world, so there's no reason to assume it'll start to change now.

As for the order beating Xykon, they don't stand a chance. Not even if RC and Tsukiko stayed out of it. I'm guessing when the final confrontation does happen, some of the guys on team evil will betray Xykon and switch sides. Mitd seems to be almost a sure bet, and I wouldn't be surprised if Redcloak finally stops hiding and mans up to Xykon as well. I doubt we'll see Redcloak die as the coward he's been since SoD, he still needs his moment of redemption.


Tarquin crushed 15th level Bard/Swordsman with +3 keen rapier using non-magical dagger. That, and I bet he isn't lower level than Bozzok, who was 17-18th. Hell, I'd bet on Tarquin beating Redcloak, especially after seeing Miko do it.

Tarquin crushed Elan, something even level 1 goblins would have been capable of doing before his dashing swordsman class. Since Tarquin countered his puns, it sounds like the dashing swordsman benefits did not work, and Elan has never been much of a fighter anyway. We've seen before that if he can't make his puns, he remains largely useless in terms of fighting ability.

For any class that specializes in fighting, they could easily beat Elan while being lower level than him, especially when his puns get countered (and Elan never remembers to use any of his other bard abilities). Defeating Elan proves basically nothing in terms of Tarquin's level range.

[Kish]

Tarquin crushed 15th level Bard/Swordsman with +3 keen rapier using non-magical dagger.Love to know where you get the idea that his dagger was nonmagical.

I take it back actually.

[Origomar]

compare elan to his fight wtih nale, nale was using a non magical dagger and lost to elan, tarquin however defeated elan with ease, using a dagger aswell.(although the dagger tarquin is using is bigger and the other one was probably meant for only sacraficial purposes)

[Souhiro]

Well, I think that the OP was thinking about Xykon reaching to Girard's Gate and Tarquins just being there.

I think that Tarquin can have a Charisma over 20 (Tarquin is WAY more charismatic than Xykon, but you know...) Plus, Xykon usually isn't "The man with the plan", he just EnergyDrains/MeteorSwarms and then Zombify the poor bits that keeps on the floor.

If Elan says just the word "Xykon" to his daddy, he could torture tons of bards to get all their Bardic Knowledge about Xykon and tell him everything (Truly, he won't need to torture them, but hey! he is a bad guy after all) And I think that he, alongside the Empire of Blood (And asociateds, remember!) plus the very same Girard, who would want to protect his gate, could twart Xykon's plans.

You know. Without Redcloak, Xykon is half the menace than he is. And without Redcloak, he would have been killed many times. Using Bardic Knowledge would say this at the first... and you will know what you needed to do.

[factotum]

I think that Tarquin can have a Charisma over 20 (Tarquin is WAY more charismatic than Xykon, but you know...)

Tarquin is way more *likable* than Xykon. Likability does not equal Charisma in D&D terms, and we *know* Xykon has a Charisma in the stratosphere because you don't get to be an epic-level sorcerer without it!

[Querzis]

I think that Tarquin can have a Charisma over 20 (Tarquin is WAY more charismatic than Xykon, but you know...)

Xykon is, by far, the most charismatic character I ever saw in a work of fiction. Charisma doesnt have anything to do with likability or how smooth you are. Xykon is intimidating as hell, go through life with nothing more then his strength of personality, can make people who utterly hate him obey him without a fuss, understand perfectly how his underlings think and know how to control them, is great at manipulating people and can even get the girls after hes dead (though that says more about Tsukiko then about him). Hes also about as subtle as a train, got the attention span of a goldfish and hes as likable as a squid but that, once again, got nothing to do with charisma. Tarquin is smarter then Xykon but hes nowhere near his level of charisma, Xykon is dangerous almost only thanks to his charisma.

[Forum Explorer]

Xykon may have higher Charisma but Tarquin's Charisma is also very high. Close to or equal to Elan's.

[Morthis]

compare elan to his fight wtih nale, nale was using a non magical dagger and lost to elan, tarquin however defeated elan with ease, using a dagger aswell.(although the dagger tarquin is using is bigger and the other one was probably meant for only sacraficial purposes)

Elan questioned whether or not he could defeat Nale before his dashing swordsman class. Nale is a horrible multiclass combo with at least 6 levels in sorcerer for suggestion. Basically, Nale is an absolutely terrible straight up fighter, and Elan still wasn't sure he could match him. Anything even resembling a class that can actually fight would be able to fight the both of them at the same time blind folded. The only thing that makes Elan even halfway competent in battle is his puns, and we've seen before that when his puns fail, his bonuses don't apply. Given that Tarquin countered the puns, it's reasonable to assume his bonuses did not apply, which leaves us with the weak Elan that could be defeated by a level 5 fighter.

Basically, if Tarquin is anywhere near a decent fighter (which seems likely since he did start as a warlord fighting rather than behind the scenes plotting), he would not need to be high level at all to defeat Elan.

[Kish]

To be perfectly honest, I find Xykon more likable (eh...less profoundly revolting...) than Tarquin. At least he doesn't pretend not to be the complete monster he is.

[Dr.Epic]

To be perfectly honest, I find Xykon more likable (eh...less profoundly revolting...) than Tarquin. At least he doesn't pretend not to be the complete monster he is.

Yes as we all know self-denial is way worse than an undead abomination that's near indestructible, wants to take over the world, and is involved in a plan that could mean the shattering of the universe. Clearly the lesser of two evils.

[Morthis]

Yes as we all know self-denial is way worse than an undead abomination that's near indestructible, wants to take over the world, and is involved in a plan that could mean the shattering of the universe. Clearly the lesser of two evils.

What that have to do with how likable someone is? How evil someone is could be a factor, but it certainly wouldn't be the only one. This is especially true if we're talking about works of fiction where the bad guy's plans can't directly involve or hurt us anyway.

Take a look at some examples in movies. The Joker in The Dark Knight, most certainly a very evil person, but many people really liked him. How about Michael Corleone from The Godfather, again, most people would agree he's a villain, but a likable character. Evil != likable.

Xykon is more evil, yes, but I like him because he's evil and he loves it. He does the most horrible things, and he takes such childish joy in it. Despite his 1 dimensional approach to many things, I find his character to be a lot more interesting than Tarquin so far (to be fair, Tarquin has not had much screen time yet).

[Kish]

Yes as we all know self-denial is way worse than an undead abomination that's near indestructible, wants to take over the world, and is involved in a plan that could mean the shattering of the universe. Clearly the lesser of two evils.
That would be a good point, if 1) I'd said anything about which was more evil there, and 2) "self-denial" was an exhaustive list of Tarquin's crimes.

[Supercomputers]

I agree that Tarquin's victory would consist of manipulating Xykon to do something that Tarquin wanted done, then reaping the fruits after the lich had moved on.
Xykon's a lot smarter than he look/acts though, I mean Redcloak thought he could control Xykon in SoD and failed horribly. Granted Tarquin's probably better at it than Redcloak but the point still stands.

non-magical dagger.

Wait, do we know it was non magical? All we know is that it doesn't have that glowy magic scribble around it right?

[factotum]

Wait, do we know it was non magical? All we know is that it doesn't have that glowy magic scribble around it right?

Neither does any other magic weapon. Roy's sword is +5, but only occasionally shows a magical glow when he swings it; same with Haley's new bow, unless the freezing effect goes off.

[Supercomputers]

Right so I'm saying it could still be magical, we just haven't seen it yet.

[olthar]

Tarquin could win because he would clean up Xykon after he had exhuasted himself against Girard. He would also use his full party plus the empress of blood. Plus he would let the OotS to fight first as well.

Exhausted himself against Girard? All the evidence we have suggests that Xykon has taken out the two strongest members of the order of the scribble (Dorukan and Lirian, the others being dead or a rogue). Girard is an epic level illusionist who has taken at least 2 levels in ranger with an indeterminate amount of subpar feat selection to back this up. It is possible that Girard doesn't even have epic spell slots (18 wizard specialist illusion, 2 ranger).

Given that Xykon is a single-class epic sorc who took out a single-class epic wizard and a single-class epic druid, I don't see a multi-class as a giant issue for him.

As for the Tarquin part, most people have said anything I could add. It's likely that his whole party wouldn't be a big issue for xykon alone. When you add in redcloak, tsukiko, and MitD, then it isn't an issue at all.

[Forum Explorer]

Exhausted himself against Girard? All the evidence we have suggests that Xykon has taken out the two strongest members of the order of the scribble (Dorukan and Lirian, the others being dead or a rogue). Girard is an epic level illusionist who has taken at least 2 levels in ranger with an indeterminate amount of subpar feat selection to back this up. It is possible that Girard doesn't even have epic spell slots (18 wizard specialist illusion, 2 ranger).

Given that Xykon is a single-class epic sorc who took out a single-class epic wizard and a single-class epic druid, I don't see a multi-class as a giant issue for him.

As for the Tarquin part, most people have said anything I could add. It's likely that his whole party wouldn't be a big issue for xykon alone. When you add in redcloak, tsukiko, and MitD, then it isn't an issue at all.

Yes Xykon took out two epic spellcasters though they did make mistakes in their spellcasting. He came within spitting distance of losing to epic ghost paladin Soon. So while I don't know I suspect that it was a close fight against Liran and Dourkan as well. Following this assumption Xykon could beat Girad but be battered enough that he wouldn't have much left, plus well done illusions are perfect for burning spell slots off an enemy.

[Ninja Dragon]

Tarquin had better pray the gate isn't anywhere near his territory. That's what I think.

Unless he manages to trick Xykon somehow. But if they (and their armies) fight, Tarquin will be eaten for breakfast.

[Yendor]

Tarquin's a wuss. He hides behind incompetent figureheads because he's worried about being kicked out by a united front. Xykon would regard him with complete contempt. No way he would be scared of the continent uniting against him.

[Onyavar]

You are making the simplistic assumption than "win", for Tarquin, means beating Xykon.

If everything went the way Tarquin planned it, there would be an epic battle in which Xykon would slay the Empress of Blood, name himself the Emperor of Bone, and Tarquin would become his new general.

NOOOOO!
You said it!!
Now Rich will do something else instead.

[Morthis]

Yes Xykon took out two epic spellcasters though they did make mistakes in their spellcasting. He came within spitting distance of losing to epic ghost paladin Soon. So while I don't know I suspect that it was a close fight against Liran and Dourkan as well. Following this assumption Xykon could beat Girad but be battered enough that he wouldn't have much left, plus well done illusions are perfect for burning spell slots off an enemy.

Every spellcaster in oots makes mistakes in spell casting/choices/etc. Non-optimized builds are the norm in oots.

SoD spoilers below regarding the 2 fights.

He lost to Lirian once due to the guardian virus. The second fight wasn't even a competition, Xykon completely destroyed Lirian. As for Durokan, given the amount of time he had to prepare, he did very poorly as well. Obviously neither were that optimized (and Lirian had no clue what to do against a Lich), but as I said, we have no reason to believe it would be any different for anyone else.

[olthar]

Every spellcaster in oots makes mistakes in spell casting/choices/etc. Non-optimized builds are the norm in oots.

SoD spoilers below regarding the 2 fights.

He lost to Lirian once due to the guardian virus. The second fight wasn't even a competition, Xykon completely destroyed Lirian. As for Durokan, given the amount of time he had to prepare, he did very poorly as well. Obviously neither were that optimized (and Lirian had no clue what to do against a Lich), but as I said, we have no reason to believe it would be any different for anyone else.

In addition to that, it is clear that Xykon has figured out his anti-caster strategy, spam energy drain. It may be crude, but it works. Given how nice and happy girard was at the end there, I imagine he probably didn't look in on those previous battles to see what was going on. So I somehow doubt he'll be prepared for that.

[aart lover]

it's all good. the key to beating xykon is ample planning. if redcloak hadn't been there then he would never have taken azure, cuz see, xykon only knows how to attack head on, strategy is tarquin's forte. plan plan blah blah blah order distracts him blah blah blah while army vs hobbo's blah blah blah tarquins party fights him blah blah blah then empress of blood stomps on him blah blab blah redcloak again escapes w/his phylactery new plot arc blah blah blah. at least that's how i think it would go down:smallsmile: