Xykon vs Superheros [Archive] - Giant in the Playground Forums

SPoD

2011-02-16, 12:15 PM

Most top-tier superheroes could probably beat him, simply because superheroes tend to be massively powerful relative to D&D characters. For example, take Doctor Fate, a standard superhero sorcerer. He's capable of far more varied and powerful magic than Xykon is, because he has no functional limits. He can conjure up any spell he wants, any time. Xykon has strict limits on what spells he knows and how many times he can cast them. And Doctor Fate is not considered the most powerful superhero in existence.

But if I had to pick a traditional non-spellcasting superhero, I'd pick Captain Marvel (the DC one who says "Shazam!" not the Marvel one who gets cancer and dies). In particular because recent portrayals have shown him to be immune or resistant to most hostile magic. He would basically shrug off the majority of Xykon's spells and then pound him into dust.

Specifically NOT Superman, for the same reason. Superman is considered vulnerable to magic, which Xykon has plenty of.

OA_Chimera

2011-02-16, 12:25 PM

If you'll accept supervillians, then Bad Horse. Nothing beats the death winny.

Cybertoy00

2011-02-16, 12:35 PM

Speaking of superheroes, wasn't there another team mentioned in the Start of Darkness? Could any of them beat Xykon, and if not, how long would they last?

olthar

2011-02-16, 01:02 PM

Firestorm (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0359.html) would have no problem, but I thin that Cyclops (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0560.html)would lose to xykon.

LuPuWei

2011-02-16, 01:58 PM

But if I had to pick a traditional non-spellcasting superhero, I'd pick Captain Marvel (the DC one who says "Shazam!" not the Marvel one who gets cancer and dies). In particular because recent portrayals have shown him to be immune or resistant to most hostile magic. He would basically shrug off the majority of Xykon's spells and then pound him into dust.

That reminds me of (Xanth Spoilers)

Bink.:smallsmile:

CletusMusashi

2011-02-16, 03:30 PM

Batman carries Bat Lich Repellant, Bat Goblinoid Repellant, and Bat Undead Minion Repellant, so he's covered against anybody except O-Chul.

Spiderman would get fireballed while narrating/ taunting Xykon/ having flashbacks about his Aunt May.

The Tick would beat up Xykon, but he'd need Arthur to remember the phylactery. Cartoon Tick would have the best chance of final victory, because Sewer Urchin would get that phylatery back in about 15 minutes.

Xena would somesault over all the minions and destroy except for the MitD, who would become her newest whacky comic relief hanger-on.

Buffy could probably do it if she had Willow and Giles teleport the phylactery away and smash it.

Superman could win if they'd never heard of him. But since EVERYBODY knows what Superman's weakness is, I figure Redcloak would just summon a Kryptonite elemental.

Aquaman could talk to fish and find out where the phylactery is. But meanwhile Xykon would still be running around until somebody actually stopped him.

HandofShadows

2011-02-16, 03:45 PM

Spiderman would get fireballed while narrating/ taunting Xykon/ having flashbacks about his Aunt May.

Depends on who the writer. Someone writing Spider Man PROPERLY with his stated powers he is very dangerouse a foe. He has taken out the Jugernaught and a Harald of Galatus. Most any spell Xykon tosses at him would be dogged (firefalls more a LOT slower than bullets and lasers). And Spidy has also been known to throw cars at people he really does not like (Spidy can benchpress about Ten Tons BTW) Now you get someone writing him improperly, yeah, he would loose.

CarpeGuitarrem

2011-02-16, 05:15 PM

Spiderman would get fireballed while narrating/ taunting Xykon/ having flashbacks about his Aunt May.

Spiderman's dodging ability would put Haley to shame. Now, whether he has enough of a lethal punch to do in the dude...that's a good question.

Personally, I'd like to see the guy against X-23.

Sholos

2011-02-16, 05:28 PM

Spiderman's dodging ability would put Haley to shame. Now, whether he has enough of a lethal punch to do in the dude...that's a good question.

Bench press. 10 tons. I think he can overcome the DR.

Red XIV

2011-02-16, 06:43 PM

Specifically NOT Superman, for the same reason. Superman is considered vulnerable to magic, which Xykon has plenty of.
Generally, Superman's vulnerable to magic in the sense that he's not immune to it, like he is to most physical attacks. He'd take roughly the same amount of damage from a given magical attack that an average human would, but that doesn't change the fact that he can withstand vastly more damage than any non-powered human. In D&D terms, he wouldn't have Spell Resistance, but he still has a massive number of hit dice. Plus, his Fortitude, Reflex, and Will saves would all be excellent.

Herald Alberich

2011-02-16, 07:25 PM

Batman carries Bat Lich Repellant, Bat Goblinoid Repellant, and Bat Undead Minion Repellant, so he's covered against anybody except O-Chul.

What about Bat-MitD-Repellent?

veti

2011-02-16, 08:37 PM

Batman carries Bat Lich Repellant, Bat Goblinoid Repellant, and Bat Undead Minion Repellant, so he's covered against anybody except O-Chul.

Nah, he only invents those things after hard hours in his lab... after having his backside handed to him on first encountering those enemies. They're comebacks, he doesn't start out with them.

Spiderman would get fireballed while narrating/ taunting Xykon/ having flashbacks about his Aunt May.

I'm pretty sure Spidey has at least basic Evasion, and his Reflex save is ridiculous. You'd want something with a Will save to take him out.

Buffy could probably do it if she had Willow and Giles teleport the phylactery away and smash it.

Yeah, that's exactly how Buffy would do it - but it'd take her an entire series to come up with that plan, during which Xykon would reduce Sunnydale to a ghost town and kill one or two of her extended hangers-on.

Herald Alberich

2011-02-16, 08:48 PM

Green Lantern? Constructs equivalent to a Wall of Force, in any shape imaginable, at will. Plus energy blasts. The Empowered Sunburst was the only real good hit Darth V got on Xykon, and that would be pretty easy for GL.

The ring might be vulnerable to Energy Drain, though.

smasher0404

2011-02-16, 09:09 PM

Wolverine- He should have a decent reflex save, and the fact that he regenerates doesn't hurt either. Also metal claws.

Honorable Mentions

Deadpool- While he also can regenerate, what exactly could he do against an epic lich... shoot him? cut him with a sword?

Aquaman (if the battle was under water)- think a scenario like Azurite City - Roy, or Haley's knowledge of various deceptions, or a spell caster, or ghost matyrs.

G-Man Graves

2011-02-16, 09:36 PM

Generally, Superman's vulnerable to magic in the sense that he's not immune to it, like he is to most physical attacks. He'd take roughly the same amount of damage from a given magical attack that an average human would, but that doesn't change the fact that he can withstand vastly more damage than any non-powered human. In D&D terms, he wouldn't have Spell Resistance, but he still has a massive number of hit dice. Plus, his Fortitude, Reflex, and Will saves would all be excellent.

No, Superman is paticularly vulnerable to magic. It's stated, I believe, in Kingdom Come, that he is weaker to it than say, Wonder Woman is. Additionally, it's not that he's immune to any and all non kryptonite non magic attacks, just that the vast majority of such attacks are too weak to hurt him (see, Doomsday).

MReav

2011-02-16, 10:55 PM

Herald Alberich

2011-02-16, 11:54 PM

Forgive me if I'm outdated, but isn't the GL ring vulnerable to yellow? The kind of color fire tends to have?

These days, that only applies to rookies who haven't learned to overcome fear (yellow's emotion) yet, or Lanterns who are overcome by fear.

So, a high roll on an Intimidate check backed by Xykon's ridiculous Charisma, coupled with a Meteor Swarm, could probably do some damage.

On the other hand, Lanterns have high Will saves by definition: the ring is powered by willpower (green's emotion). And Lanterns survive explosions all the time, so fire's not that big a deal, really.

Roberto

2011-02-17, 04:38 AM

How high would your strength have to be by dnd rules to be able to bench press 10 tonnes? Also, whats the average bench pressing of someone like Roy?

HandofShadows

2011-02-17, 04:39 AM

Wolverine- He should have a decent reflex save, and the fact that he regenerates doesn't hurt either. Also metal claws.

Andamantum metal claws that cut through nearly everything.

Deadpool- While he also can regenerate, what exactly could he do against an epic lich... shoot him? cut him with a sword?

He is good enough to hit things like joint or specific bones with gunfire. Deadpool also likes explosives. In fact he tends to go for overkill with them. Of course Deadpool might just decide to use an anti tank weapon on Xykon.

Red XIV

2011-02-17, 04:57 AM

No, Superman is paticularly vulnerable to magic. It's stated, I believe, in Kingdom Come, that he is weaker to it than say, Wonder Woman is. Additionally, it's not that he's immune to any and all non kryptonite non magic attacks, just that the vast majority of such attacks are too weak to hurt him (see, Doomsday).
Wonder Woman would be a bad comparison, since magic is the source of her powers. She's got resistance to magical attacks because she is magical.

Also, Kingdom Come is an alternate continuity.

Gandariel

2011-02-17, 07:11 AM

random question: has someone ever statted superheroes in dnd?

Killer Angel

2011-02-17, 07:18 AM

Alternatively, we could translate Xykon, an epic sorcerer, in superheroes terms. Doctor Strange?

VeisuItaTyhjyys

2011-02-17, 07:19 AM

Deadpool- While he also can regenerate, what exactly could he do against an epic lich... shoot him? cut him with a sword?

If he blows up enough things, one of them is bound to be the phylactery.

When he blows up enough things, one of them is bound to be the phylactery.

nihil8r

2011-02-17, 05:21 PM

threads like this are why i don't like superheroes. so such-and-such has eighty billion random powers that don't make sense because whoever wrote that issue of that particular comic book decided at the time it was a good idea. that's cool ... no really, it is.

Reverent-One

2011-02-17, 05:33 PM

Wait, what? This thread has pretty much stuck with the common powers for the various superheroes, no random powers have really been mentioned yet.

rewinn

2011-02-17, 08:10 PM

Much depends on situation. Just as in typical superhero comics, where you fight, who helps you and a whole lotta other stuff can be decisive.

In SoD, young Xykon defeated the Stickverse analog of one of the most powerful characters in the Marvel Universe Professor X although that depended on the character being surprised by Xykon's attack. He also defeated one of Stickverse's most power druids in a surprise attack, and in a straight-up, face-to-face battle, defeated one of stickverse's most powerful wizards.

The only time in the webcomic that X was seriously challenged (other than Roy's lucky punch) was with the Paladin Ghost-Martyrs, who were able to deliver serious physical damage while resisting magic and negative energy attacks. The closest analog I can think of in mainstream comics would be Wolverine when he's doing his Samurai thing; his adamanteum skeleton is resistant to X's favorite magics and the rest of him will regenerate. PLUS Symbol of Insanity wouldn't really affect Wolverine, partly because of Logan's level but mostly because of his personality. :smallwink:

In theory a Green Lantern should be able to take X down since, in stickverse terms, their powers are functionally similar to unlimited quantities of force magic. If they can armor against the energy drain and meteor swarms, it's just a question of hitting X with enough green magic missles. But X is extremely intelligent; if he has any clue as to the existence of the Lanterns, he'll simply craft a yellowpowered ring. It doesn't have to be very powerful, just enough to break a Lantern's concentration for a moment.

Dr. Strange in a straight-up fight would deploy the Shield of the Seraphim defensively, then use the Eye of Agamotto to finish off X by forcing him to confront his nature, which is a child engaged in a fruitless quest to avoid the Fire Down Below. Who knows? maybe Strange could convince X of the futility of his approach and convert him to ... if not Good, then at least Neutral. That would truly be a Supreme act of Sorcery. Unfortunately Strange is no longer Earth's Sorceror Supreme and AFAIK his replacement is still learning the ropes, which is a very dangerous way to go up against X, as V amply proved.

Nimrod's Son

2011-02-17, 09:30 PM

In SoD, young Xykon defeated the Stickverse analog of one of the most powerful characters in the Marvel Universe
I wouldn't go as far as to say he's an "analog". Xavion admits to being a low-level wizard.

Cracklord

2011-02-17, 09:50 PM

Any superhero worth his cape could improvise enough to do it. Except Wolverine, who Xykon would demolish in order to assert his rep.

Specifically NOT Superman, for the same reason. Superman is considered vulnerable to magic, which Xykon has plenty of.

It takes six seconds to cast any non-quickened spell (i.e, one round). Superman can move far faster then the speed of light, and has no problem killing undead or robots, and can lift a black hole.

...This is not even a fight. It's just the man of steal blurring faster then human perception, then it's over. In fact, I cannot think of a single scenario where Xykon wins. Even the kryptonite elemental.

Scarlet Knight

2011-02-17, 10:23 PM

I wonder how well Ghost Rider would do against Xykon?

Mikeavelli

2011-02-17, 11:11 PM

How high would your strength have to be by dnd rules to be able to bench press 10 tonnes? Also, whats the average bench pressing of someone like Roy?

http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Carrying_Capacity

If I'm doing my math right, it'll be a little under 50.

1400*4*4 = 22400 = 11 tons, if we assume Bench Press = heavy load. This is a good enough approximation for me.

Someone like Roy probably has mid-20s, maybe up into the low 30s with his Belt of Giant Strength, so he could probably Bench Press a Geo Metro.

[hr]

Spiderman, Deadpool, and Xykon in a battle Royale would be the most hilarious thing ever written, assuming you could find a writer capable of pulling it off.

Fire-based heroes would be a terrible matchup for Xykon because he's immune to fire, and knows non-fire spells like Energy Drain and Maximized Energy Drain.

I think the best matchup would be self-righteous bruisers like Captain America and Superman, because Xykon wouldn't fight them "seriously," on account of playing up the whole hero vs. villain thing. Also, he's REALLY good at taking down spellcasters, but seems to consistently lack protections against getting punched in the face REALLY hard.

rewinn

2011-02-17, 11:55 PM

...Superman can move far faster then the speed of light, and has no problem killing undead or robots, and can lift a black hole.

...This is not even a fight. It's just the man of steal blurring faster then human perception, then it's over.

Superman, and most of the super-speed crew (Flash, Quicksilver), are broken in game terms. It is as if each of them has a permanent nonmagic Time Stop on the rest of the universe. They could strip their foe of every weapon, tool, magic item, etc, then wrap them in chains, rig explosive charges, then run away.

So while your comment seems true, I think we should dicard superspeed for purpose of analysis - because with it there's nothing to discuss.

LuPuWei

2011-02-18, 01:16 AM

The closest analog I can think of in mainstream comics would be Wolverine when he's doing his Samurai thing; his adamanteum skeleton is resistant to X's favorite magics and the rest of him will regenerate. PLUS Symbol of Insanity wouldn't really affect Wolverine, partly because of Logan's level but mostly because of his personality. :smallwink:

How well would Wolverine hold up against Disintegrate? I know he's not entirely indestructable, and I doubt he'd regenerate if all that's left of him is his adamantium skeleton...

And if a guy like Lex Luthor can go toe to toe with Superman (heck even Batman beat Superman once) I'm sure Xykon can find a way. Sure, Superman can move at the speed of light, which is good for long distance hauls, but can he think that fast? So as to use it in a fight?

Reverent-One

2011-02-18, 01:21 AM

How well would Wolverine hold up against Disintegrate? I know he's not entirely indestructable, and I doubt he'd regenerate if all that's left of him is his adamantium skeleton...

...uh, funny you should mention that...

He did, in fact, do that after being blown up by Nitro.

Felixc-91

2011-02-18, 03:46 AM

I wonder how well Ghost Rider would do against Xykon?Ghost Rider survived a tussle with the Hulk after the Hulk had his sudo-homeworld blown up. he would be fine.

LuPuWei

2011-02-18, 03:54 AM

...uh, funny you should mention that...

He did, in fact, do that after being blown up by Nitro.

Well, was any of the flesh left intact?

Edit:

Ghost Rider survived a tussle with the Hulk after the Hulk had his sudo-homeworld blown up. he would be fine.

A guy with a flaming skull for a head? Pray he never meets Belkar...:smallbiggrin:

Felixc-91

2011-02-18, 04:30 AM

Well, was any of the flesh left intact?

Edit:

A guy with a flaming skull for a head? Pray he never meets Belkar...:smallbiggrin:and the ability to stare into your eyes and incinerate your soul if you've been bad... good bye Belkar, good bye Xykon, good bye Tarquin... none of them would stand a chance.

Killer Angel

2011-02-18, 05:32 AM

How well would Wolverine hold up against Disintegrate?

I suppose Wolverine's got a good fort save...

TreesOfDeath

2011-02-18, 10:39 AM

Depends on who the writer. Someone writing Spider Man PROPERLY with his stated powers he is very dangerouse a foe. He has taken out the Jugernaught and a Harald of Galatus. Most any spell Xykon tosses at him would be dogged (firefalls more a LOT slower than bullets and lasers). And Spidy has also been known to throw cars at people he really does not like (Spidy can benchpress about Ten Tons BTW) Now you get someone writing him improperly, yeah, he would loose.

I would just like to point out that people genereally think Spiderman beating Firelord was a bull**** and the comic fight site has a rule about ridiculous wins because of the plot not being taken into account called the "Firelord vs spiderman" rule.

Mikeavelli

2011-02-18, 12:38 PM

and the ability to stare into your eyes and incinerate your soul if you've been bad... good bye Belkar, good bye Xykon, good bye Tarquin... none of them would stand a chance.

Eh, Xykon doesn't have a soul anymore. Well, he does, but it's in a jar on his henchman's neck. Not inside him.

Scarlet Knight

2011-02-18, 12:51 PM

Everything is possible is comics, depending on which hero the story is being written for.

Yes, a Batman author can have him beat Superman...as long as Superman is overconfident, forgets to move at Superspeed, or forgets that he can hurl Batman into the sun.

How different would the Wolverine/ Hulk battle been if it was a Hulk story.
"Raar. Puny man prick Hulk! Hulk drop mountain on puny man. *Smash!* Hmmm. Buried puny man not make sound any more..."

Zaydos

2011-02-18, 12:56 PM

I'm pretty sure Spidey has at least basic Evasion, and his Reflex save is ridiculous. You'd want something with a Will save to take him out.

And his Will save is not low by any means.

On the bench-lift 10 tons, he can lift ~30 tons when he actually struggles and the 10 tons is not the limit of his strength just how far he normally exerts himself. So he can lift at least 15 tons as a heavy load (really he probably has some heroic rage ability that increases his strength).

And Spider-Man definitely has at least improved evasion and probably mettle. And now I want to stat out Spider-Man as a D&D character.

On if he could win... he could learn about the phylactery and then escape come back and get it and then break it or use it to threaten Xykon into imprisonment (where he'd escape more powerful than ever). In an upfront fight, though, spider-man is losing.

Marxism

2011-02-18, 01:40 PM

The thing about most superhero's is that they are almost always one trick ponies also they have one really good stat and nothing else.
Spiderman for example has strength in the hundreds or thousands same with all strength heroes. This means that with one full attack he could probably turn Xykon into a heap of dust.
The other problem is that they have no diversity. Spiderman has no way of finding Xykon if he turns invisible. He undoubtedly has improved evaision from spider sense and he also probably has a Dex in the high single digits to low triple digits. Ultimately it would come down to who was surprising who Meteor swarm does not allow a reflex save it hits full on. So with an easy divination Xykon could find spidey use greater invisibility fly to a height at which jumping could not reach him and just start the bombing. about 5 swarms later there would be nothing left but ashes and regrets

Conversly if Spiderman could sneak up on Xykon and full attack him then if it didn't kill him it would at least leave him with few options. Overland flight only gives 40 feet per round and with a strength like spiderman that's a joke even as a standing jump. also one grapple check and Xykon gets crushed to bits and pieces.

Any hero famed for strength could do something similar. I think Superman would be Xykon's greatest fear. He can literally hit like a train and fly faster then a jet plane on caffeine. He has DR in the hundreds to thousands which means that Xykon is stuck with a few spells that will hurt him sure almost all will but I think flying at 1000 KPH sort of gives a ref save bonus. Kryptonite would kill him but good luck getting your hands on it. It could be summoned but it would be another initiative problem. Same as above the person who attacks first would win.

The regenerating people are like the tarrasque they are scary and dangerous but with enough firepower something Xykon has plenty of they are kill-able.

Green lantern could do it. With a colossal force hammer(thats a hammer the size of a skyscraper not a hammer made for colossal creature) It would be another bone dust situation.

Batman would be screwed I will not lie. Hes cool but he is strictly a mid level fighter with some money. He could research an anti magic spray and then use it to.......oh wait someone tried that. in that time Scryed and fried.

Also in most cases Xykon could find their relatives kill them and drive the hero crazy. rage makes people do stupid things.

The most balanced and interesting fight I see is Iron man. He does not have anything too insane and he can create a bunch of spell affects with technology. My guess is that the two of them would get in a fight like Darth V's except more fire and property damage.

SPoD

2011-02-18, 01:55 PM

It takes six seconds to cast any non-quickened spell (i.e, one round). Superman can move far faster then the speed of light, and has no problem killing undead or robots, and can lift a black hole.

First, Xykon HAS quickened spells, and contingent spells. They are both instantaneous.

Second, no, Superman cannot move faster than the speed of light. The Flash can, but not Superman.

...This is not even a fight. It's just the man of steal blurring faster then human perception, then it's over. In fact, I cannot think of a single scenario where Xykon wins. Even the kryptonite elemental.

A contingent spell that plane shifts anyone moving faster than such-and-such a speed who touches Xykon to the bottom of the River Styx. It would be instantaneous, thus beating Superman's speed, and the river would first drain his memories, so he wouldn't remember how he got there, then his mental ability scores. And it would do so magically, for which he has no defense. For bonus points, even if he left the river, he has no means of traveling through dimensions, so he would be stuck in Hades with no memory forever.

And that's assuming there's not an Elemental Plane of Kryptonite.

Obviously, if a writer wanted to write ways around it, he could do so. But Superman's speed is not some sort of big "I WIN" button.

Reverent-One

2011-02-18, 05:20 PM

First, Xykon HAS quickened spells, and contingent spells. They are both instantaneous.

When has he used either of those?

AgentofOdd

2011-02-18, 05:34 PM

Not to mention spontaneous casters like sorcerers can't apply the quicken feat to their spells.

Xykon might have Contingency, but I think such spells only work on the caster.

Cracklord

2011-02-18, 06:54 PM

First, Xykon HAS quickened spells, and contingent spells. They are both instantaneous.

He has Empowered and Maximised. He has never been shown to plane shift, or summon creatures, and just because a wizard can do it doesn't mean Xykon specificly can. Also, when has Xykon used contingency? Or, for that matter, why would he prepare a contingency for a man moving at the speed of light? We did not establish prep time. And even assuming he does, that assumes Superman will use his speed, and not, say, pick up the continent and beat him to death with it.

I mean, that's the sort of reasoning that leads to the 'a kryptonian built BRAINIAC' therefore superman can create BRAINIAC to fight Xykon for him. Yes, the ability exists, and yes, it is possible, but it is neither demonstrated or part of their character. Lets keep this Xykon, and not 'Munchkin's wet dream batman wizard'.

Superman's power level fluctuates, but he usually can move faster then light speed, and frequently does. In fact, he is in the comic I am reading right now.

dps

2011-02-19, 11:54 PM

The problem that most superheros would have with Xykon is that you've really got to kill him to beat him, and most superheros have that pesky "I won't kill rule" (actually, most of them have the same problem with their own rogue's galleries, but that's a different story), so you need one of the superheros who will kill. The Punisher would be able to do it, though a fight between them might just come down to initiative, i.e., whoever got off the first shot would win.

Alleran

2011-02-20, 12:43 AM

Second, no, Superman cannot move faster than the speed of light. The Flash can, but not Superman.
Not to be a killjoy... but yes, he can. He just can't do it inside of Earth's atmosphere, because the effects on the surrounding environment are, for lack of a better word, devastating.

http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee306/Eldy_88/SupermanFTL.jpg
http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee306/Eldy_88/SupermanFTL2.jpg

LuPuWei

2011-02-20, 01:55 PM

Not to be a killjoy... but yes, he can. He just can't do it inside of Earth's atmosphere, because the effects on the surrounding environment are, for lack of a better word, devastating.

Hate to be a Killjoy again, but that's really not how relativity works...

:vaarsuvius: - Sigh. Once again physics proves itself willing to sneak into a back alley and service drama as would a copper-piece harlot.

G-Man Graves

2011-02-20, 05:01 PM

Spiderman for example has strength in the hundreds or thousands same with all strength heroes. This means that with one full attack he could probably turn Xykon into a heap of dust.
The other problem is that they have no diversity. Spiderman has no way of finding Xykon if he turns invisible. He undoubtedly has improved evaision from spider sense and he also probably has a Dex in the high single digits to low triple digits. Ultimately it would come down to who was surprising who Meteor swarm does not allow a reflex save it hits full on. So with an easy divination Xykon could find spidey use greater invisibility fly to a height at which jumping could not reach him and just start the bombing. about 5 swarms later there would be nothing left but ashes and regrets

Divination is confirmed, in comic, not to be Xykon's forte, hence the use of crystal balls. Similarly, the whole point of Spider Senses is that Spiderman know's that something is about to hit him, the hops out of the way. The meteor swarms would be no exception. This would similarly cancel out greater invisibility.

Any hero famed for strength could do something similar. I think Superman would be Xykon's greatest fear. He can literally hit like a train and fly faster then a jet plane on caffeine. He has DR in the hundreds to thousands which means that Xykon is stuck with a few spells that will hurt him sure almost all will but I think flying at 1000 KPH sort of gives a ref save bonus. Kryptonite would kill him but good luck getting your hands on it. It could be summoned but it would be another initiative problem. Same as above the person who attacks first would win.

If Superman had DR, it would be described as "Damage Reduction (insert really high number here)/ Kryptonite, Magic". Superman would get killed just as easily as another really strong, really buff human because he is as vulnerable (if not more so, as mentioned earlier) as a human is to magic.

The regenerating people are like the tarrasque they are scary and dangerous but with enough firepower something Xykon has plenty of they are kill-able.

Green lantern could do it. With a colossal force hammer(thats a hammer the size of a skyscraper not a hammer made for colossal creature) It would be another bone dust situation.

No objections. Although I would imagine a spell like "Wish" would be required to overcome regen, as with the Tarrasque.

Batman would be screwed I will not lie. Hes cool but he is strictly a mid level fighter with some money. He could research an anti magic spray and then use it to.......oh wait someone tried that. in that time Scryed and fried.

Um... I'll just redirect you to the point where it was stated that Xykon can't really scrye that well. I mean, yeah, straight fight Batman is dead, but the man can move so quietly that Superman can't hear him. Xykon will have some trouble finding him, +8 racial bonus to listen non withstanding.

Also in most cases Xykon could find their relatives kill them and drive the hero crazy. rage makes people do stupid things.

In this situation, does Xykon know secret identities? That's a big factor. Also, remember, alot of them have families that are already dead.

The most balanced and interesting fight I see is Iron man. He does not have anything too insane and he can create a bunch of spell affects with technology. My guess is that the two of them would get in a fight like Darth V's except more fire and property damage.

I reaaaaally wouldn't imagine Iron Man putting up more of a fight than batman would. Xykon could just focus on wrecking the suit, and then Tony is screwed.

CletusMusashi

2011-02-20, 11:16 PM

The longer I think about it, the harder it is to picture a fight between Xykon and Spiderman that does not end with Redcloak leaning on the fourth wall a little bit and pulling out a can of Raid.
How are Xykon's transmutation skills? Could he turn Superman's underwear into kryptonite?

Hardcore

2011-02-21, 01:12 AM

Good superheroes also need to perform their mandatory speech before the fight. Xykon would respond with "Ghostform" and start cast the crap out of his opponent.

Zaydos

2011-02-21, 01:17 AM

Good superheroes also need to perform their mandatory speech before the fight. Xykon would respond with "Ghostform" and start cast the crap out of his opponent.

Speaking is a free action :smalltongue:

More seriously depends upon the hero. Some like to perform their mandatory speech during the fight, intermixed with witty one-liners. Even Superman generally only says a few lines beforehand and saves the lengthy speech for when things get serious/the rematch (like his World of Cardboard speech).

Now supervillains, they monologue first.

Hecuba

2011-02-21, 01:22 AM

The comic nerd in me compells me to speak...

How well would Wolverine hold up against Disintegrate? I know he's not entirely indestructable, and I doubt he'd regenerate if all that's left of him is his adamantium skeleton...

There's bone marrow on the inside of that skeleton, and they ret-conned it so that it was just permeable enough to let stuff out but not in. However, there was a alt-future shown in the past year or so where it was established that if you keep him burning to death in a fire for long enough he will eventually die. Armor did so after she killed brain-damaged Beast and before she went off to kill herself.

Well, was any of the flesh left intact?

In that case, it did not look so. But it wasn't clearly established. We did get a nice rundown of the order in which his organ systems grow back though.

A guy with a flaming skull for a head? Pray he never meets Belkar...:smallbiggrin:

The anthropomorphic embodyment of divine vengeance... with a flaming skull for a head. I'd give it a 50/50.

No, Superman is paticularly vulnerable to magic. It's stated, I believe, in Kingdom Come, that he is weaker to it than say, Wonder Woman is.

Wonder Woman is INCREDIBLY resistant to magic. She's not a real person: she's a magical princess carved from clay and brought to life by the will of several deities (the soul is human-- the rest is decidedly not). For a while, she was a deity. If we're assuming magic/psionics transparency, Max Lord (who currently has the whole world with the exception of less than 10 people programmed amnesia-ed) couldn't effect her at all.

I reaaaaally wouldn't imagine Iron Man putting up more of a fight than batman would. Xykon could just focus on wrecking the suit, and then Tony is screwed.
These days, Tony more or less is the suit. Also, he can control his body at a subcellular level (and can direct it to work as a healing factor a healing factor), and has "a miniature sun" in his chest.

Unfortunately Strange is no longer Earth's Sorceror Supreme and AFAIK his replacement is still learning the ropes, which is a very dangerous way to go up against X, as V amply proved.

Actually his replacement (Dr. Voodoo) is dead. He died killing Agamatto (immortal super-sorcerer, who was the first sorcerer supreme-- he had gone evil) with what probably qualifies as a retributive strike made with a major artifact (the Eye of Agamatto).

Interestingly, nothing has yet come of the fact that the artifact in question seemed to serve roughly the same purpose as Feroz's Ban (http://wiki.mtgsalvation.com/article/Feroz%27s_Ban)

Alleran

2011-02-21, 08:51 AM

Hate to be a Killjoy again, but that's really not how relativity works...

:vaarsuvius: - Sigh. Once again physics proves itself willing to sneak into a back alley and service drama as would a copper-piece harlot.
Eh, comic book science. Main point is that as far as the character is concerned, yes he is FTL. Also according to the way the DCU multiverse works, at least, is that kryptonite from other universes (or, more importantly, created by people from other universes) won't work on him. Some sort of dimensional resonance stuff that they babble on about.

It's why Power Girl is immune to kryptonite in the main DCU - the only kryptonite that could do anything to her is back in a universe that literally does not exist, being as it was deleted from reality.

Forum Explorer

2011-02-21, 02:28 PM

well just hit Superman with hold person or better yet a symbol of insanity. Or both. Perhaps trap him in a force cage to get time to set up the symbol of insanity.

veti

2011-02-21, 04:34 PM

I would think that statting superheroes in D&D terms is not a good idea. D&D is designed to cope with a range of abilities that's distributed more-or-less normally around something that actual people could perhaps do, plus magic. The further you get outside that range, the more broken the rules become. (Epic/Divine level rules show the strain badly.)

Statting D&D characters as superheroes, however, is perfectly feasible. "Champions" is a game I used to play regularly - I think you could model Xykon reasonably well in ~300-400 points, which would make him a very formidable enemy (although mercifully suboptimal...).

megabyter5

2011-02-22, 08:15 PM

Spoilered for Grammar-Nazi-ing:

"dangerouse"... "Jugernaught"... "a Harald of Galatus"... "would be dogged"... "firefalls more a LOT slower"... "Spidy"... "Spidy"... "he would loose"

I saw this post, and my inner Grammar Nazi broke free and went on a rampage, destroying half of the city. Eventually I managed to rope it back in, though, so everything's fine. Unfortunately, I have to correct your post. "Dangerous", "Juggernaut", "Herald of Galactus", "dodged", "fireballs are much slower", "Spidey", "Spidey (again, since you missed the 'e' twice)", and "lose".

Now for my actual contribution to the topic! To list the heroes I think would have a good chance against Xykon:

Wonder Woman
Green Lantern (any one)
Martian Manhunter
Batman (with sufficient preparation)
Nightwing (by extension of Batman)
Captain Marvel
Doctor Fate
[Any More I Might Think Of Later]

Hecuba

2011-02-23, 12:26 AM

Now for my actual contribution to the topic! To list the heroes I think would have a good chance against Xykon:

Wonder Woman
Green Lantern (any one)
Martian Manhunter
Batman (with sufficient preparation)
Nightwing (by extension of Batman)
Captain Marvel
Doctor Fate
[Any More I Might Think Of Later]

That's a very DC list you have there (not that there's anything wrong with that).

Martian Manhunter is back to fire vulnerability last that I heard, so the meteor swarms might not work out so well.

Excluding the unnecessarily powerful space opera Marvel Stuff, I'd add:

Reed Richards (though he's pretty much an artificer, so better planning than other options)
Susan Richards (she's got basically unlimited force effects at this point)
Stephen Strange (well, maybe- Xykon is built to take down casters)
Iron Man (depending on how liberally the author is writing Extremis)
Thor
Noh-Varr (Marvel Boy/Captain Marvel)
Ms. Marvel
Storm

For Villains:
Loki
Moonstone
Magneto
and of course, Dr. Doom

ThirdEmperor

2011-02-23, 12:45 AM

Squirrel Girl. I rest my case.

As for more serious superheroes:

Any Lantern
The Flash
Thor
Dark Phoenix
Silver Surfer
Captain Marvel
Wonder Woman

And Deadpool. Why Deadpool? Because Xykon would get along with him so well he'd totally forget to kill him!:smallamused:

Souhiro

2011-02-23, 04:22 AM

Aquaman could talk to fish and find out where the phylactery is. But meanwhile Xykon would still be running around until somebody actually stopped him.

So... Aquaman would be a better asset than Superman!!!
But again, Kriptonite isn't an element but a composite. It would be like saying "A stainless steel elemental" or "A Pentium IV Quad Core Elemental", So Redcloack would summon a Kripton Elemental, Supes just would say "Huh?" and then would torture to death to Redcloack and Xykon.

But the main asset here would be Punisher. He is the kind of guy who could stole any Intel report, be utterly dangerous genre savvy, draw the attention of RedCloack to a bomb (Rigged to explode at 2:00 instead of 0:00) and then smash Xykon until leaving just a disembodied half skull (Incapable of verbal and somatic spells) and then going to see Mr Strange, to counterspell his lichdom.

He could do it... but the easiest, cleanest, smartest way would be...
htaed ot derutrot si kcaolcder, modhcil sesol nokyx
Yeah, HER (http://sirenasasesinas.files.wordpress.com/2010/07/zatanna_by_darthterry.jpg).

Volthawk

2011-02-23, 09:33 AM

I think that many people are forgetting that Liches are immune to magic.

Demiliches are immune. Normal liches aren't

fibonacciseries

2011-02-23, 09:43 AM

Wolverine- He should have a decent reflex save, and the fact that he regenerates doesn't hurt either. Also metal claws.

Metal claws, which do either slashing or piercing damage (depending on how he's written). Liches have DR 15 against both, but not against bludgeoning damage, such as many heroes fists. Therefore, Wolverine would probably be less effective than most superheroes.

faustin

2011-02-23, 10:58 AM

What about Spawn? High trained soldier, Necroplasmic body, symbionic suit and infernal powers. He could rape Redcloack with his chains and summoned vermin and cast down Xykon to Hell with his magic.

Origomar

2011-02-23, 06:55 PM

are people being sarcastic about squirrel girl?

she can summon like millions of squirrels and defeated doctor doom.(in that order)

Dr.Epic

2011-02-23, 06:56 PM

I'd like to see Xykon last one round against the Watchmen. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDDHHrt6l4w)

Origomar

2011-02-23, 06:59 PM

oh and i beleive we are forgetting the most capable super hero, captain planet.

Thanatosia

2011-02-23, 06:59 PM

Firestorm (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0359.html) would have no problem, but I thin that Cyclops (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0560.html)would lose to xykon.
Actually, I'm quite sure Firestorm would have a rather big problem overcoming at least one of Xykon's Magic Items (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0653.html).

megabyter5

2011-02-23, 09:43 PM

That's a very DC list you have there (not that there's anything wrong with that).

Now you've made me feel guilty for not liking Marvel. It's not my fault! I just can't get into the emotionally complex characters and the moral gray areas. Plus, I've been playing DCUO, so that's definitely colored my thought processes as of late.

shadowkiller

2011-02-23, 11:24 PM

I'd like to see Xykon last one round against the Watchmen. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDDHHrt6l4w)

Well Dr. Manhattan has at will save or die spells without the saves. By D&D mechanics I would classify him as a deity.

Talkkno

2011-02-24, 12:14 AM

Various DC mainstays are actually statted up in d20ish terms officially in the DC Adventure Hero's Handbook(EG, M&M 3e)

Hecuba

2011-02-24, 12:35 AM

Actually, I'm quite sure Firestorm would have a rather big problem overcoming at least one of Xykon's Magic Items (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0653.html).

He's not actually fire. It's unlimited nuclear transmutation at will these days. Usually.

Of course, he has to know stuff about what he's turning stuff into, and these days there's no-one particularly gifted at chemistry or molecular physics involved. Dr. Light (the good one) wasn't too happy about that when she found that out after requesting his help for a science heavy mission.

Also, that reminds me, Dr. Light might fare well enough.

Souhiro

2011-02-24, 04:05 AM

oh and i beleive we are forgetting the most capable super hero, captain planet.

You know... he TRIED (http://media.photobucket.com/image/zombie%20captain%20planet/Broccoli337/random/CON/con2/CIMG1844.jpg).

But you forget the Manga Superheroes!!!

Son Goku: He always have senzou beans, and that is way better than a Heal Potion. He can survive Planet Threating blasts, could teleport as a swift action (We have seen him teleport and Kamehame-ha many evil guys) and if everything else fails, he can go Genki-Dama.

Alita/Gally. The last iteration is a robot (Her brain is now a chip) can regenerate because extreme Nanotech, infinite energy and almost infinite processing power. Since she is -like- a golem, she should be immune to magic, plus she is darn fast, and can most of her attacks can use Plasma, a kind of attack that Xykon nor Redcloack could have heard off nor be prepared. She is a martial artist, so I think she can have Evasion.

But the greatest one, the one who don't need to get out of his room and only need to know Xykon and Redcloak true names is...

Ahem... (http://souhiro.zobyhost.com/matar.php?victima=[Redcloak*]+Dies+after+he+destroy++Xykon%27s+philactery.+++++ +++.+++++++++.)
This Too (http://souhiro.zobyhost.com/matar.php?victima=[Xykon*]+a+bald%2C+bearded+badass+++azurite+kills+him.++++ ++++.+++++++++.)

The only thing he need is to have their true names and faces, and that is an easy scry.

Thanatosia

2011-02-24, 04:58 AM

The only thing he need is to have their true names and faces, and that is an easy scry.
Faces easy... but True names? Hell, after years of watching them through the 4th wall we don't even have that info. I don't even think its completely out of the realm of possibility that Xykon and Redcloaks have forgotten their own true names by now.

Souhiro

2011-02-24, 05:32 AM

Faces easy... but True names? Hell, after years of watching them through the 4th wall we don't even have that info. I don't even think its completely out of the realm of possibility that Xykon and Redcloaks have forgotten their own true names by now.

His girlfriend can see people's names with the Shinigami Eye trick. And it work in a type of "Scrying mirror" that shinigamis have in their world. So, if someones Scry on Xykon and Redcloack in their presence, Xykon is no more.

HandofShadows

2011-02-24, 03:00 PM

Metal claws, which do either slashing or piercing damage (depending on how he's written). Liches have DR 15 against both, but not against bludgeoning damage, such as many heroes fists. Therefore, Wolverine would probably be less effective than most superheroes.

Umm, those are andimantium claws that cut darn near anything. They go through steel easily. Bone offers almost no resistance to them.

The Glyphstone

2011-02-24, 03:45 PM

Umm, those are andimantium claws that cut darn near anything. They go through steel easily. Bone offers almost no resistance to them.

It's not the fact that they are bones, it's that they are the bones of a lich. Liches (and Skeletons, for that matter) have DR Bludgeoning And Magic or DR Bludgeoning. You can technically hit them with a monomolecular sword and it'll still do 15 points of damage less than it would against anything else (which may still destroy him, but still).

Wardog

2011-02-24, 04:46 PM

oh and i beleive we are forgetting the most capable super hero, captain planet.

Captain Planet was almost paralyzed by the hatred radiating from Hitler (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=V0MVuWDc5RQ#t=214s). I expect Xycon would have a similar effect.

(Either that, or Redcloak would just summon another Chlorine Elemental, and the pollution would supress his powers).

Dr.Epic

2011-02-24, 04:55 PM

oh and i beleive we are forgetting the most capable super hero, captain planet.

Xykon defected an epic level druid with ease. What's that guy gonna do?

faustin

2011-02-24, 06:11 PM

I am ashamed no one mentioned Etrigan :smallfrown:

Hecuba

2011-02-24, 06:35 PM

I am ashamed no one mentioned Etrigan :smallfrown:

Extra-planar. There are easy solutions.

paddyfool

2011-02-24, 06:35 PM

King of Nowhere

2011-02-24, 07:05 PM

Wait, did someone take the time to stat superheroes and, say, decide Superman is vulnerable to magic - that don't exist in his world?
Seems a very creative way to waste time, but probably the same definition could apply to most of our pasttimes so I'll try to not be judgemental.

G-Man Graves

2011-02-24, 08:21 PM

Wait, did someone take the time to stat superheroes and, say, decide Superman is vulnerable to magic - that don't exist in his world?

Whatchu' talking about, King of Nowere? Superman's weakness to magic is well established in the DC Universe.

Souhiro

2011-02-25, 03:51 AM

John Constantine. By cutting a few deals that somehow ultimately end up with the tricoloured fiends turning on each other before the winner tortures Redcloak for eternity, the Dark One blaming Xykon and stomping him flat, the Snarl eating the Dark One, and the incidental death or soul destruction of half a dozen or so generally nice people foolish enough to make friends with the protagonist of all this as collateral damage. I like this one!!!

Superman's weakness to magic is well established in the DC Universe.
You know, Zatanna IS a magician, she specifically uses magic. Medea and Circe are witchs, Captain Marvel's powers are magical in nature, although they come from six gods. It's more kinda "You cannot use a mutagen on Superman, but you can cast baleful polymorph on him"

Xondoure

2011-02-26, 12:53 AM

It's not the fact that they are bones, it's that they are the bones of a lich. Liches (and Skeletons, for that matter) have DR Bludgeoning And Magic or DR Bludgeoning. You can technically hit them with a monomolecular sword and it'll still do 15 points of damage less than it would against anything else (which may still destroy him, but still).

Yes, because it is easier to cut through flesh than bone. So since they are constructs made of bones they have a higher DR. Wolverine's slash damage is so high off the charts it wouldn't matter. Even back before the power creep got him his claws were stated to cut steel like warm butter.

Edit: As for superheroes, it depends on which world. If Rich is writing it, probably Xykon while the heroes hold the idiot ball, after all thats the pcs job to finish him off. If one of the countless comic artists is than the Heroes will overcome him eventually despite the odds. If both were to be transported to our world with their powers somehow intact I'd give it to the supes on average because Xykon's favorite tactic of the heroes being idiots isn't there.