Atlantis and Google Ocean

[pendell]

Seen in the Daily Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/google/4731313/Google-Ocean-Has-Atlantis-been-found-off-Africa.html). A grid of crisscross lines composing a "perfect rectangle" has been located at one of the probable locations of the legendary Atlantis. Even if it's only a natural phenomenon, it's still worth investigating, IMO.

Edit: Never mind. (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/google/4735057/Google-Ocean-Atlantis-found-off-Africa-turns-out-to-be-boat-mapping-lines.html). Shucks.


Respectfully,

Brian P.

[Supagoof]

Curses Aquaman! I shall find your secret hideout of Atlantis one of these days, and then you will fall to your doooooooom!

Seriously - People don't give Aquaman enough respect, but since he is the Son of Atlantis - you have to respect his ability to keep his birthplace secret from prying eyes. I call it his unknown superpower.

Fun read Pendell.

[Asta Kask]

Look, there's nothing in Plato's dialogue that indicates that it was supposed to be taken seriously. Plato set it there because he needed a corrupt, ancient empire that could be defeated by the Athenians. In a sense what he said was "A long time ago in a galaxy far away...", except with words a 5th century (BCE) Athenian could understand.

The quest for Atlantis is as misguided as a quest to find Narnia.

[AtlanteanTroll]

Look, there's nothing in Plato's dialogue that indicates that it was supposed to be taken seriously. Plato set it there because he needed a corrupt, ancient empire that could be defeated by the Athenians. In a sense what he said was "A long time ago in a galaxy far away...", except with words a 5th century (BCE) Athenian could understand.

The quest for Atlantis is as misguided as a quest to find Narnia.

Doesn't stop people from trying now does it? And no, it isn't as Narnia is suppose to be Heaven. And, uh, religious stuff I can't post.

[Asta Kask]

Okay, use Lilliput and Blefuscu. Again, they are settings for a story designed to illustrate a point - satirical in the case of Jonathan Swift, morally uplifting in the case of Plato.

[The Big Dice]

It's not unlikely that we now call Atlanteans Minoans (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minoan_civilization#Minoan_demise_theories). And that Atlantis was located on what is now called Santorini (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Location_hypotheses_of_Atlantis#Thera_.28Santorini .29).

[Don Julio Anejo]

Wait, people actually try to find Narnia? So what do they do, walk into people's houses and say "Wardrobe Inspection, Ma'am!" ?

[AtlanteanTroll]

Okay, use Lilliput and Blefuscu. Again, they are settings for a story designed to illustrate a point - satirical in the case of Jonathan Swift, morally uplifting in the case of Plato.

I wouldn't but I've never heard of those. I'm sure Atlantis is real. I just know it... I'm from there afterall. :smalltongue:

[Obrysii]

As it says in the article - no matter what it actually is, it's worth investigating.

Regular lines like this doesn't just happen in nature. And if it is natural, it'll be something new that needs to be explained.

Edit: Just saw your edit. Darn.

[Supagoof]

Wait, people actually try to find Narnia? So what do they do, walk into people's houses and say "Wardrobe Inspection, Ma'am!" ?I do that all the time.

NOBODY EXPECTS THE NARNIAN INQUISITION!

[Kinsmarck]

Look, there's nothing in Plato's dialogue that indicates that it was supposed to be taken seriously. Plato set it there because he needed a corrupt, ancient empire that could be defeated by the Athenians. In a sense what he said was "A long time ago in a galaxy far away...", except with words a 5th century (BCE) Athenian could understand.

The quest for Atlantis is as misguided as a quest to find Narnia.

Once upon a time, archaeologists, historians, and anthropologists said the same thing about Troy.

[Crow]

Once upon a time, archaeologists, historians, and anthropologists said the same thing about Troy.

Absolutely. However, if you go by Plato's description, one could make a case for the continent actually being Antarctica.

[Serpentine]

I like the theory I've heard. I'll just grab the relevant bits from the book I got it from (Mysteries of the Unknown: Mystic Places by Time-Life Books; not actually a very good series on the whole):
(K.T. Frost, professor of classical history at Queen's University in Belfast, suggests that we) look at Minoan Crete from the perspective of the Egyptians at the time - the sources of Plato's information. It would have seemed... a great seafaring empire "united by the same sea which divided it from other nations... a separate continent with a genius of its own." Further, to the Egyptians, the center of the Minoan civilization would appear to be far to the west, even beyond the four pillars that in Egyptian world view held up the earth. Frost went on to observe that Plato's mention of a great harbor, lavish bathrooms, a stadium, and the sacrifice of the bulls all jibe with actual features of Minoan Crete, as does the capture of the ceremonial bull, which can be seen on pottery from Crete.
But suddenly the power of the Minoans vanished... To the Egyptians... the disappearance of these exotic merchants at the evident height of their grandeur would have been a great mystery, as if "the whole kingdom had sunk into the sea."
...
In 1932, Spyridon Marinatos... found... sure evidence of volcanic eruption (on Crete)... Marinatos looked northward... to... the remnants of a volcano that had been active around 1500BC, just when the Minoan civilization blinked out forever... Marinatos reasoned that these kinds of catastrophies, over a long period of prehistory, had given rise to the story of Atlantis that was related by Plato.
...
Galanopoulos believed that his catastrophic series of events - which would all have taken place in a matter of days - would surely have been recorded by the Egyptians and associated with the sudden disappearance of the once-ubiquitous Minoans. Hearing the story much later, Solon came up with the description recorded by Plato, who translated the vanished civilization into the lost continent of Atlantis.
Plausible as this reconstruction may have appeared, there remained some difficulties. Plato was specific about when the catastrophe had occurred, placing it 9,000 years before his own time. He was also precise in detailing the size of Atlantis and its features; the capital city was some 300 miles across, far larger than any metropolis of even modern times. Furthermore, Plato had explicitly located Atlantis in the Atlantic Ocean.
Galanopoulos' reconciliation of these disparities was ingenious and simple.... Both the Egyptians and the Greeks used ten-based number schemes that were precursors of the modern decimal system. Galanopoulos reasoned that, in translation from Egyptian to Greek, the symbol for every number greater than 100 mistakenly had the equivalent of one zero added. In that case, all the numbers in Plato's account would fit closely enough. For example, if 9000 years really means 900 years, then the date of the catastrophe accords almost perfectly wtih the eruption of Thera in 1500BC. Similarly, a city 300 miles across becomes 30 miles across, a reasonable figure. And a series of large and small islands ten times the size of Crete and its neighbors simply would not have fit in the Mediterranean as Plato knew it: In his chronicle of Atlantis, the great philosopher would have had to move the lost continent out of the sea and into the much larger ocean that lay beyond the Pillars of Hercules.
TL;DR: Atlantis was Minoan Crete. They were a big deal to the Egyptians, as was their sudden and possibly violent disappearance. Thus, the Egyptians recorded it. Years later Plato came along and read the Egyptian account. He accidentally did the equivalent of moving the decimal point for all the numerical values one place to the right, making everything ten times bigger or older than the Egyptians actually believed. This made the place described too big to fit in the Mediterranean where it actually was, so Plato moved it out into the Atlantic Ocean. Thus was born Atlantis, from Minos.

[rakkoon]

Sounds credible. What does the book say about Narnia?

[Ravens_cry]

Wait, people actually try to find Narnia? So what do they do, walk into people's houses and say "Wardrobe Inspection, Ma'am!" ?
Or have an overly keen fascination of paintings of ships. :smallbiggrin:

[Mercenary Pen]

Wait, people actually try to find Narnia? So what do they do, walk into people's houses and say "Wardrobe Inspection, Ma'am!" ?


Or have an overly keen fascination of paintings of ships. :smallbiggrin:

Nope, these days they're just paying major scrutiny to train crashes... and the railways in general.

[grimbold]

i hope you are aware Atlantis was a fictitious story by plato

[SMEE]

Next we should look out for R'lyeh. :smalltongue:

[Eldan]

Found already.

Bloop. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloop)

[Ravens_cry]

Nope, these days they're just paying major scrutiny to train crashes... and the railways in general.
At least its better then when they skulked around opening gates at co-ed schools.

[Delwugor]

Plato's Atlantis will never be found because it never existed. What he wrote was the equivalent of a modern Space Opera, he wrote a SW epic 2300 years ago. I think of Atlantis as the Old Republic, great idealized location and setting for a great story.

That said, we can speculate what the inspiration for the Old Republic was and the Roman Empire comes to mind. We can ask Lucas and he can tell us ... I don't know if he was every asked or commented.
Speculating what was the inspiration for Plato is very interesting. I'll throw my own speculation in for the heck of it ... and because I don't want to do anymore work on a Friday afternoon.

For physical locations and circumstances the Minoans match up well, but culturally I think it gets pretty weak. For example Minoans had the most advanced sea based culture, but where technolgically behind others in building and warfare technology.
So where does the inspiration for the Atlantean culture come from? My pure 100% guess work based on absolutley no credentials ... :smallbiggrin:
It comes from the decline of Egyptian influence during the New Kingdom period, especially in regards to the Middle East and Asia Minor. The background and maybe chronology could have came from Egyptian sources, but the interpretation would be through the close racial and cultural ties with Asia Minor and other Middle Eastern people.

[hamishspence]

The "Santorini/Minoan Crete was the prototype for the Atlantis legends" theory is an interesting one.

Another theory I saw, was that the same big event that may have contributed to its downfall (the Thera eruption) may also have been responsible for the "Plagues of Egypt" - darkness, animal plagues, and so forth.

The problem being- it's not clear if the eruption was quite big enough to affect any of Egypt in this fashion.

[AshDesert]

The "Santorini/Minoan Crete was the prototype for the Atlantis legends" theory is an interesting one.

Another theory I saw, was that the same big event that may have contributed to its downfall (the Thera eruption) may also have been responsible for the "Plagues of Egypt" - darkness, animal plagues, and so forth.

The problem being- it's not clear if the eruption was quite big enough to affect any of Egypt in this fashion.

I heard a theory that says the maybe the Santorini eruption caused the bedrock underneath the Nile to shift, releasing minerals that would: turn the river a blood red color, kill off all the fish, scare the frogs up onto the surface, attract disease from all the dying fish, and even release carbon dioxide that would go low to the ground, killing only the privileged first-born sons who got to sleep on the ground floor, but none of the other children. In addition, the seismic activity itself would've caused earthquakes at Egyptian temples that knocked down their statues (also mentioned in an Egyptian history) and ash from the eruption blocking out the sky and you have a good list of the plagues. The only thing missing is locusts, and I think it was explained but I don't remember their reasoning. Even if it's not right it's an interesting theory anyway.

[Serpentine]

A question, before we ditch this topic: are the Plagues mentioned anywhere other than the obvious? Specifically, in any Egyptian sources?

[grimbold]

A question, before we ditch this topic: are the Plagues mentioned anywhere other than the obvious? Specifically, in any Egyptian sources?
i think so but i can not exactly remember

[Eldan]

Wikipedia claims there aren't any, for what it's worth.

[AshDesert]

A question, before we ditch this topic: are the Plagues mentioned anywhere other than the obvious? Specifically, in any Egyptian sources?

I remember hearing reference to an Egyptian tablet that reported the temples shaking and statues of the gods falling and the plague of darkness (which can both be easily explained by the Santorini eruption), but other than that, none that I know of.

[Delwugor]

A question, before we ditch this topic: are the Plagues mentioned anywhere other than the obvious? Specifically, in any Egyptian sources?
There have been attempts to equate the two events but nothing convincing IMO. The main difficulty is resolving the times - Santorini happened around 1650 BC while the accepted Pharaoh of the Exodus is Ramses II which makes the period around 1250s BC.
I think there is some geological evidence that dust from the eruption did settle on Egypt but I don't know of any evidence of it causing any catastrophes such as the Plagues indicate.

In fact I don't know of any eruption impact on civilizations outside of the Minoans. Not an expert of course but I would have expected some indications in Asia Minor at least - not sure cultures in Italy. I did once read that the Minoan migration afterwards may have caused other Proto-Greeks to migrate to the Middle East which eventually became the Palestinians or the Caananites, but no real evidence.

[Eldan]

I thought Ramses II was the Pharaoh of Oppression, while the Pharaoh of the Exodus was his successor, who was generally a weaker king in pretty much all areas?

[Delwugor]

There are several choices but I think you hit on probably the most important clue from Exodus - the Pharaoh from the Oppression is different than the Pharaoh of the Exodus.

I personally think Horemheb is a better choice for the Oppression with Ramses I being the Exodus one. This could explain the short 1-2 year reign of Ramses I as not surviving the event. Biblical Old Testament does not mention the Pharaoh dying in the Red Sea but I believe the Koran version explicitly states his demise.
Also it is known that Horemheb was fairly oppressive to remove the religious influence from the Akhenaten and the other Amarna Pharaohs - the ones not on the famous Abydos Kings List.

[Flame of Anor]

Doesn't stop people from trying now does it? And no, it isn't as Narnia is suppose to be Heaven. And, uh, religious stuff I can't post.

You're confusing Narnia with Aslan's Country.


It's not unlikely that we now call Atlanteans Minoans (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minoan_civilization#Minoan_demise_theories). And that Atlantis was located on what is now called Santorini (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Location_hypotheses_of_Atlantis#Thera_.28Santorini .29).

TL;DR: Atlantis was Minoan Crete. They were a big deal to the Egyptians, as was their sudden and possibly violent disappearance. Thus, the Egyptians recorded it. Years later Plato came along and read the Egyptian account. He accidentally did the equivalent of moving the decimal point for all the numerical values one place to the right, making everything ten times bigger or older than the Egyptians actually believed. This made the place described too big to fit in the Mediterranean where it actually was, so Plato moved it out into the Atlantic Ocean. Thus was born Atlantis, from Minos.

Actually, the article I read says that the decimal theory points to Santorini. The article was about a new field of science, whose name I don't recall, but which was basically matching up ancient literature with demonstrable geologic events. It also had a section about a certain passage in the Odyssey where the narrator mentions the god Mercury going backwards or turning around or something. Apparently, if you interpret that as referring to retrograde motion of the planet Mercury (yes, it was called that back then), this is something which only occurs every several centuries. And when is one of these Mercurian retrograde motions? Within a decade of the traditional date of the Trojan War. Coincidence? I think not!

[Serpentine]

Actually, the article I read says that the decimal theory points to Santorini. The article was about a new field of science, whose name I don't recall, but which was basically matching up ancient literature with demonstrable geologic events. It also had a section about a certain passage in the Odyssey where the narrator mentions the god Mercury going backwards or turning around or something. Apparently, if you interpret that as referring to retrograde motion of the planet Mercury (yes, it was called that back then), this is something which only occurs every several centuries. And when is one of these Mercurian retrograde motions? Within a decade of the traditional date of the Trojan War. Coincidence? I think not!When was your article written? This book of mine is pretty old, so it's entirely possible yours has new information.
And... Well, it could be :smalltongue: Still neat, though. What does retrograde motion mean, exactly?

[hamishspence]

The book I read that raised the theory, placed Akhenaten as the Pharoah of Exodus.

It also raised the possibility that the events, may have contributed to the rise of the Aten cult under Akhenaten.

The chronology in that book went- Thera eruption, Exodus, founding of Amarna.

[pendell]

That said, we can speculate what the inspiration for the Old Republic was and the Roman Empire comes to mind. We can ask Lucas and he can tell us ... I don't know if he was every asked or commented.
Speculating what was the inspiration for Plato is very interesting. I'll throw my own speculation in for the heck of it ... and because I don't want to do anymore work on a Friday afternoon.


I can't find the exact quote, but ISTR Lucas stating in an interview that the idea for the SW series came from Roman history -- fall of the republic, rise of the empire. So the Old Republic is essentially the old Roman Republic in space, down to gladiatorial contests, soldiers personally loyal to the emperor and not the republic, and slaves.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[Eldan]

When was your article written? This book of mine is pretty old, so it's entirely possible yours has new information.
And... Well, it could be :smalltongue: Still neat, though. What does retrograde motion mean, exactly?


Basically, since both Earth and the other planets are moving around the sun, the other planets have some pretty weird orbits when seen from Earth. Most of the time, the other planets seem to move in more or less steady curves over the sky. However, when we "overtake" them, so to say, or they overtake us, sometimes they seem to backtrack on their orbits. Mars does it pretty often, since it's close. Mercury only once every few centuries. That gave ancient philosophers some pretty big headaches, and makes Mars a very whimsical god.

[Delwugor]

The book I read that raised the theory, placed Akhenaten as the Pharoah of Exodus.

It also raised the possibility that the events, may have contributed to the rise of the Aten cult under Akhenaten.

The chronology in that book went- Thera eruption, Exodus, founding of Amarna.
I read one that attempted to show Moses and Akhenaten was the same person. I didn't like how loose the accepted timelines was played with to make the connection.
More importantly (to me) is the connection between worship of Aten and early Judaism. Where they the same religion or did one inspire the other or even each other? Of course there is nothing conclusive though as I understand the two are pretty different outside of the monotheistic aspect.


I can't find the exact quote, but ISTR Lucas stating in an interview that the idea for the SW series came from Roman history -- fall of the republic, rise of the empire. So the Old Republic is essentially the old Roman Republic in space, down to gladiatorial contests, soldiers personally loyal to the emperor and not the republic, and slaves.
Yeah can't find the quote also but thought I remembered it.

[hamishspence]

I read one that attempted to show Moses and Akhenaten was the same person. I didn't like how loose the accepted timelines was played with to make the connection.

The one I was thinking of didn't go quite that far- but it did have Ahkenaton's brother Tuthmosis as Moses- and Ahkenaton as "Pharoah"- with the Exodus being the event that led him to massively reform Egypt along monotheistic lines.

[Flame of Anor]

When was your article written? This book of mine is pretty old, so it's entirely possible yours has new information.
And... Well, it could be :smalltongue: Still neat, though. What does retrograde motion mean, exactly?

It was an article in Analog from about a year ago, so pretty recent. Retrograde motion refers to when, due to orbital mechanics I don't really understand, a planet appears from our perspective to move backwards.

[Serpentine]

More importantly (to me) is the connection between worship of Aten and early Judaism. Where they the same religion or did one inspire the other or even each other? Of course there is nothing conclusive though as I understand the two are pretty different outside of the monotheistic aspect.Aten worship is much older - the first recorded monotheistic religion, in fact - and is much different, possibly most notably in that it is definitely not a personal deity. Only the Pharaoh could worship it, and everyone else had to go through him. You'd be better off looking at Canaanite religion - which I find really interesting, by the way.

And, uh... careful with the religious stuff.

[Mad Wizard]

The one thing that stands out to me about this article is their use of the term, "Atlantis Experts." What, exactly, makes someone an Atlantis expert? :smallconfused:

[Fri]

It was an article in Analog from about a year ago, so pretty recent. Retrograde motion refers to when, due to orbital mechanics I don't really understand, a planet appears from our perspective to move backwards.

It's not really that hard to understand. Imagine you're in a car, and there's another car beside you. You both moving forward. But because you're moving faster, the other car looks like it's moving backward from your perspective. When you see that planets have different sized orbits and different speed when orbiting the sun, of course at some point it'll look like they're moving backward. Just use a couple of orange orbiting yourself if it's still hard for you to imagine it :smallwink:

[Form]

The one thing that stands out to me about this article is their use of the term, "Atlantis Experts." What, exactly, makes someone an Atlantis expert? :smallconfused:

I imagine it's either a scholar who's actually studied the mythology surrounding Atlantis or (more likely) a crackpot who simply claims the title for himself.

[Delwugor]

Aten worship is much older - the first recorded monotheistic religion, in fact - and is much different, possibly most notably in that it is definitely not a personal deity. Only the Pharaoh could worship it, and everyone else had to go through him. You'd be better off looking at Canaanite religion - which I find really interesting, by the way.
Actually Aten dates back to the 12 Dynasty but as a part of the Egyptian Pantheon. Ahkenaten is the one credited for the monotheistic worship of Aten, the first recorded monotheism.
I also find the Canaanite religion to be extremely interesting.


And, uh... careful with the religious stuff.
Which is why I'm not going into any comparisons of the different religions. Also this is getting way off topic from Atlantis so I'll drop anything further here.
I am willing to continue further conversations through PM or email ([email protected]) with anyone.


The one thing that stands out to me about this article is their use of the term, "Atlantis Experts." What, exactly, makes someone an Atlantis expert? :smallconfused:
Graham Hancock and his advanced ancient civilization from which all others came from.
Erich von Daniken and his "It must be aliens" answer to anything and everything.
And then there is the infamous Edgar Cayce who predicted we would find the death ray used to destroy Atlantis.

And to throw another contender for Atlantis ... Ireland (http://www.mythicalireland.com/ancientsites/tara/tara-atlantis.php). :smallbiggrin:

[Eric Tolle]

This makes me wonder what major empires and catastrophes the "experts" thousands of years from now will be trying to prove actually existed. Such as:

The Federation, a mythical worldwide government that included all races living in harmony, had no money, and had all of it's peoples needs taken care of by magic boxes of plenty. Scholars will try to place this Federation in specific eras, as well as it's mortal opponent The Empire, which had a vast army of orc stormtroopers....

Other scholars will be trying to match the legends of zombie plagues with geological happenings, or the fall of various governments (Obviously the fall of the Axis was due to zombies!).

Because remember, there is no legend so silly or obviously metaphorical that some expert won't try to fit it into history.

[Delwugor]

Or if Babylon was an made up story of an underground city that brought about peace in the galaxy after a cricket game, a real space station with a heart of gold and humans spoke thousands languages or a fish that used to be placed in the encounter suits of people living in a tower with lots of trees and flowers.

[Serpentine]

Actually Aten dates back to the 12 Dynasty but as a part of the Egyptian Pantheon. Ahkenaten is the one credited for the monotheistic worship of Aten, the first recorded monotheism.Uh... None of that contradicts anything I said :smallconfused: I'd like a source on Aten existing for that long before then, but I never said he didn't, and I did actually say that very word you bolded.

Also: I love Erik von Daniken, but I don't think he can be called an "Atlantis expert" (except maybe by himself)... And if that article's legit (I haven't actually read it) that's almost certainly not what was meant by that term.

[Delwugor]

Followed up with a PM on 12th Dynasty Aten links.

My problem with Erik von Daniken, Graham Hancock and the rest of the Ancient Mysteries researchers is their patented conclusions which cheapen and often ignore the dedication of ancient cultures as well as the intelligence of the people.

[Serpentine]

THAT's your problem with von Daniken?!* My problem is his entire lack of scientific method, assumption that "I say so" is all the evidence he needs, and the distinct absence of common sense (see: the comment by an actual expert on the Nazca lines who's studied it for decades in response to his claim that they're alien runways: "I'm afraid the spaceships would just sink...").
But yeah, it is pretty ridiculous that they can't possibly comprehend that humans could be capable of great things all on their own.

I still think he's hilarious :smallbiggrin:

Oh, if you're interested - and especially if you've read or been otherwise subjected to Chariots of the Gods - I recommend tracking down Crash Go the Chariots, a direct response to it from someone who actually knows stuff.


*No comment on the others, haven't read any of their stuff.

[Ravens_cry]

Followed up with a PM on 12th Dynasty Aten links.

My problem with Erik von Daniken, Graham Hancock and the rest of the Ancient Mysteries researchers is their patented conclusions which cheapen and often ignore the dedication of ancient cultures as well as the intelligence of the people.
Yeah, its a rather old racist idea. "Oh these primitive savages could never have made this awesome structure, aliens/displaced Europeans/ someone else must have built it."
Frankly, it disgusts me, especially, when some very clever souls have come up with ways that are completely feasible for them been able to do it and some even have archaeological evidence, like the wrapping sections of a wheel around a large stone to roll it along.

[Eldan]

You think von Däniken's books are fun? You should see him live.

[Serpentine]

Yes! Where/when/how? :biggrin:

[Eldan]

Well, I doubt he's going to Australia. But he did a few public presentations a few years back here in Switzerland. He's a native, after all.

[Delwugor]

THAT's your problem with von Daniken?!* My problem is his entire lack of scientific method, assumption that "I say so" is all the evidence he needs, and the distinct absence of common sense (see: the comment by an actual expert on the Nazca lines who's studied it for decades in response to his claim that they're alien runways: "I'm afraid the spaceships would just sink...").
But yeah, it is pretty ridiculous that they can't possibly comprehend that humans could be capable of great things all on their own.

I still think he's hilarious :smallbiggrin:

Oh, if you're interested - and especially if you've read or been otherwise subjected to Chariots of the Gods - I recommend tracking down Crash Go the Chariots, a direct response to it from someone who actually knows stuff.
This methodology of all Ancient Mysteries theorists consists of finding peculiarities which real researchers can't not explain yet or often isn't worth their efforts. Then provide a blanket explanation of aliens/ancient super civilizations or even elves.
As a full grown dwarf let me assure you the only real impact of elves is Vulcan ears. And I can prove that just as well as they do. :smallbiggrin:

I've read Chariots of the Gods a long time ago and also found it amusing. I've also read Graham Hancock's Fingerprints of the Gods and enjoyed it so much that I've some work on a game setting for Viracocha and other Latin American mythologies being preserved during the Conquistador period. So I'm impressed by his writing ... for a cinematic RPG setting.



Yeah, its a rather old racist idea. "Oh these primitive savages could never have made this awesome structure, aliens/displaced Europeans/ someone else must have built it."
Frankly, it disgusts me, especially, when some very clever souls have come up with ways that are completely feasible for them been able to do it and some even have archaeological evidence, like the wrapping sections of a wheel around a large stone to roll it along.
Not to mention the astrological, physics and chemical knowledge shown. Of course they didn't use their knowledge to align and build the pyramids. Of course brewing of beer isn't a relatively complex chemical process which man has been doing for well over 10,000 years. And which alien was it that gave man the atlatl 20-30,000 years ago. :smallbiggrin:

[Serpentine]

It's a shame so much of cryptoarchaeology is just silly... Take that disc thing with the language about Mu or whatever it is. It's an untranslatable completely unknown language... so how do you know what it's about? :smallconfused:

[Eldan]

Not to mention the astrological, physics and chemical knowledge shown. Of course they didn't use their knowledge to align and build the pyramids. Of course brewing of beer isn't a relatively complex chemical process which man has been doing for well over 10,000 years. And which alien was it that gave man the atlatl 20-30,000 years ago. :smallbiggrin:

Personally, I blame the Migo for the pyramids and the Elder Things for the Atlatl and beer.

[Delwugor]

It's a shame so much of cryptoarchaeology is just silly... Take that disc thing with the language about Mu or whatever it is. It's an untranslatable completely unknown language... so how do you know what it's about? :smallconfused:
That's the word I was looking for last night - I didn't want to use the phrase forbidden archeology, thx!
There is the legendary Sun Disk of Mu and the doorway structure near Lake Titicaca. I believe the disk has never found nor depicted, though the doorway is real and has a disk impression carved into it.
There is also the Minoan Phaistos Disc which has indecipherable writing on it along with the Antikythera with its complicated gear design. Both real, both can't be adequately explained yet and both blown out of proportion.


Personally, I blame the Migo for the pyramids and the Elder Things for the Atlatl and beer.
Sorry but beer was first brewed by the Ugly Drunken Dwarven clan, I had a barrel of the original but got extremely thirsty about 10 years ago. It was a well proven fact but now just a drunken theory. :smallredface:

[Serpentine]

Oooo. I'm interested in Lake Titicaca, but know pretty much nothing about it. 'sup with this gate thing?
Don't know the Minoan disc, but if the Antikythera is what I'm thinking of it has been explained. If I recall correctly, it's just a particularly complicated navigational device, which might be the best and most complex example we have but not the only.