PDA

View Full Version : Dex boosting via race and templates with +0 LA



Stallion
2011-02-17, 01:35 AM
So, I'm looking to abuse the Shadow Blade feat out of ToB, and in order to do so, I need to pump my dex as much as possible. So, to start this process, I need the most effective race to boost my dex with. Pretty much any and all templates are game at this point.

So far I'm working with an Insectile Incarnate Construct Warforged Scout. Ends up as a racial +6 to dex.

Please, give me ALL of your ideas for this. Please don't limit them to a +0 LA or 0 racial hitdie, but do keep them within reason. It's already going to be interesting enough getting the details for the backstory of this character written up.

Saint GoH
2011-02-17, 01:45 AM
From templates alone...

- Half Fire Elemental gets +4
- Alu-Demon and Half-fiends get +4
- Arachnoid gets +4
- Ghul gets +4
- Air Elemental Creatures get +6
- Ice Elementals get +4
- Smoke Elementals get +6
- Radiant Creatures get +4
- Wendigo's get a +8
- Bodak's get +4
- Ghoulish Creatures get +4
- Ghastly Creatures get a +4
- Gravetouched Ghoul gets +4
- Obligatory Vampire reference gets varying bonuses, from +4 to +6
- Spectral Creature gets +6
- Umbral Creature gets +4
And lastly, Monster of Legend gets a +6

You said all idea's not just LA +0...

Stallion
2011-02-17, 01:51 AM
Oof. Well, then I'd like to edit that to just an effective +0 LA.

Percival
2011-02-17, 01:55 AM
I'm curious why you're doing an incarnate construct warforged scout. If you're going for a living creature, why not just do a +dex race that's NOT warforged instead of something so complicated. As you don't mind small-sized, why not make a whisper gnome? They have virtually no negatives, and (too?) many positives.

Stallion
2011-02-17, 01:57 AM
Well, the main reason is I'd like to stack JUST dex as much as possible, and the Incarnate Construct template has a -2 LA, canceling out a later added (probably via experimenting wizard) Insectile Creature template, giving an additional +4 to dex. All the other goodies come second in this, although tremorsense can be fairly wonderful.

DaragosKitsune
2011-02-17, 01:58 AM
Incarnate Construct is likely being used for the delicious -2 LA it provides.

EDIT: Ninja'd

Waker
2011-02-17, 01:59 AM
An Unseelie Fey (Dragon Compendium) Whisper Gnome would have a +4 Dex with no LA. Amongst other things.

Percival
2011-02-17, 02:16 AM
Well, the main reason is I'd like to stack JUST dex as much as possible, and the Incarnate Construct template has a -2 LA, canceling out a later added (probably via experimenting wizard) Insectile Creature template, giving an additional +4 to dex. All the other goodies come second in this, although tremorsense can be fairly wonderful.

Ah yes, good idea. Your DM allows stuff like that? Mine never would.

Darrin
2011-02-17, 08:08 AM
Oof. Well, then I'd like to edit that to just an effective +0 LA.

LA +0:
Air Goblin. UA/SRD, Dex +4, small-sized.
Muckdweller. Serpent Kingdoms, Dex +6, tiny-sized.
Hengeyokai Sparrow. Oriental Adventures, Dex = 23 (+6, Sparrow form), fine-sized.

(These last two have Reach = 0', although Aberration Blood + Inhuman Reach might fix that.)

Stallion
2011-02-17, 08:42 AM
Ah yes, good idea. Your DM allows stuff like that? Mine never would.

Two do, although both require some VERY good RP and backstory-ing, and two don't. I was planning on hiking up the disguise skill and trying to pass him off as a stunted thri-keen.

Kaww
2011-02-17, 08:53 AM
An Unseelie Fey (Dragon Compendium) Whisper Gnome would have a +4 Dex with no LA. Amongst other things.

Isn't that template only applicable to FEY?

FMArthur
2011-02-17, 10:33 AM
Isn't that template only applicable to FEY?

No, it's a template that makes nonfey creatures into fey. It also has no entry in its Creating an Unseelie Fey section for a level adjustment at all. The most you can infer about its level adjustment is from the sample creature, whose ability score adjustments don't even line up with the race and template. I think that the level adjustment line was just mistakenly included when they copied the original statblock to make changes to. The gains made by using the template are significant enough that even the worst designers would know it's worth more than LA +0. By RAW you're only getting a borked Unseelie Fey Gnome out of this, and by RAI you're not getting it at all.

Lans
2011-02-17, 02:03 PM
No, it's a template that makes nonfey creatures into fey. It also has no entry in its Creating an Unseelie Fey section for a level adjustment at all. The most you can infer about its level adjustment is from the sample creature, whose ability score adjustments don't even line up with the race and template.

If it seems like its too high, they probably used the standard array instead of 10,10,10,11,11,11

The Cat Goddess
2011-02-17, 02:40 PM
The Book of Templates (if you have it) has Quickened for +2 LA

Then you don't have to look like a Bug.

From the same book you can get half-Fleshbound Vampire... I forget the bonuses on it, but it's +0 LA.

Keld Denar
2011-02-17, 03:03 PM
No love for Jermalaines? +0 with a +6 Dex. Size T though, so no natural reach...

Wabbajack
2011-02-17, 03:15 PM
Beguiler from from Shining South p60 are +0 (cohort), small and get +6 dex and constant trueseeing. LA +X (Cohort) races can be used by players according to wizard, but you need to ask your DM.

FMArthur
2011-02-17, 03:41 PM
If it seems like its too high, they probably used the standard array instead of 10,10,10,11,11,11

Still doesn't line up. It looks like they took the nonelite array that the Gnome Warrior in the MM was using and for some reason applied another racial -2 to strength in addition to the one it already had.

Darrin
2011-02-17, 04:15 PM
No love for Jermalaines? +0 with a +6 Dex. Size T though, so no natural reach...

The Muckdweller outclasses the Jermlaine in everything except CODZillaness.

Beguiler... can any sane person really call that LA +0?

senrath
2011-02-17, 05:29 PM
Yes, because the Beguiler is LA +0 (Cohort only).

Wabbajack
2011-02-17, 07:03 PM
They are just "LA +0 (cohort)", and according to wizard:

"Some creatures' level adjustment entries include the word "(cohort)." Although these creatures may be problematic as PCs, they make good companions for a character who has taken the Leadership feat." (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/glossary&term=Glossary_dnd_leveladjustment&alpha=)

There is nothing in RAW that outright forbids them as player race.

FMArthur
2011-02-17, 07:08 PM
You need statements with permissive language to be able to do things in D&D; saying you can do something because the rules don't say you can't only leads to Imagination Land where nothing in the rulebooks mattered to begin with.

Regardless, that quoted statement is fairly ambiguous but still suggests that they should not be used as player races.

Thurbane
2011-02-17, 07:24 PM
Catfolk get +4 DEX for LA +1, and a 40 ft base move.

Binder (3 or 4) dip - with the Improved Binding feat, you can bind Paimon, who gives some great abilities for a mobile melee type: +4 untyped bonus to DEX, Dance of Death 1/5 rounds (attack every creature you pass in a move action)...plus some other things like bonuses to Tumble and Whirlwind Attack.

Amnestic
2011-02-17, 09:40 PM
Still doesn't line up. It looks like they took the nonelite array that the Gnome Warrior in the MM was using and for some reason applied another racial -2 to strength in addition to the one it already had.

Am I missing something? It seems to fit for me.


MM Gnome (+2 Con, -2 Str) Warrior Stats:

Str: 11 (13)
Dex: 11 (11)
Con: 14 (12)
Int: 10 (10)
Wis: 9 (9)
Cha: 8 (8)

Dragon Compendium Unseelie Fey (-2 Str, +2 Dex, -2 Con, +2 Cha) Gnome (-2 Str, +2 Con) Warrior Stats:

Str: 9 (13)
Dex: 13 (11)
Con: 12 (12)
Int: 10 (10)
Wis: 9 (9)
Cha: 10 (8)

Unless I'm misunderstanding (which given my current state would be more than possible), both example monsters given seem to follow the non-elite array and the stat adjustments given to the letter.

FMArthur
2011-02-17, 09:46 PM
Oh it looks like I did misread the Unseelie Fey statblock. I didn't see the -2 strength.

Re'ozul
2011-02-17, 11:08 PM
Well, there is the Petal (tiny flying fey creature) cohort.
IIRC, that one has a +10 Dex for LA+2. (Though as afar as I know only by calculation as there is no actual as PC paragraph for it)

From the Warlock Information Compendium:

Petal [Tiny Fey] +2 LA, gives -8 Str +10 Dex +4 Con +4 Int +8 Cha
(MMIII 120)
Strenght is an issue here

herrhauptmann
2011-02-17, 11:18 PM
So, I'm looking to abuse the Shadow Blade feat out of ToB, and in order to do so, I need to pump my dex as much as possible. So, to start this process, I need the most effective race to boost my dex with. Pretty much any and all templates are game at this point.

So far I'm working with an Insectile Incarnate Construct Warforged Scout. Ends up as a racial +6 to dex.

Please, give me ALL of your ideas for this. Please don't limit them to a +0 LA or 0 racial hitdie, but do keep them within reason. It's already going to be interesting enough getting the details for the backstory of this character written up.

Doesn't 'Incarnate Construct' require you to be a normal construct like an iron or clay golem not a 'living construct' like the already sentient warforged?

Andion Isurand
2011-02-17, 11:22 PM
Obah-Blessed template from Dungeon Magazine 136 is a fun one to look at.

+2 Str, +4 Dex, +2 Con, +4 Cha
one extra pair of arms
multi-weapon fighting bonus feat
+2 LA

-- or --

+4 Str, +6 Dex, +4 Con, +6 Cha
two extra pairs of arms
multi-weapon fighting bonus feat
+3 LA

Thurbane
2011-02-17, 11:28 PM
Doesn't 'Incarnate Construct' require you to be a normal construct like an iron or clay golem not a 'living construct' like the already sentient warforged?
Nope, it only requires a humanoid shape, and the Construct type, both of which a Warforged Scout posesses. Even though they have the Living Construct subtype, Warforged are still Constructs.

klemdakherzbag
2011-02-18, 12:54 AM
Winged template from savage species is +2LA for +4Dex and flight(I think I have the numbers right)