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No brains
2011-02-17, 06:41 PM
Remember how formians are 'not flat-footed' unless all of them are? Does that mean a rogue that no formian sees can't sneak attack it just beacuse one of them just happens to be alert to something else entirely, or does the rogue get their sneak attack because all the formians are flat-footed against that one instance of an attack?

Also, what are Ninja'd and Swordsage'd?

The Rose Dragon
2011-02-17, 06:43 PM
Remember how formians are 'not flat-footed' unless all of them are? Does that mean a rogue that no formian sees can't sneak attack it just beacuse one of them just happens to be alert to something else entirely, or does the rogue get their sneak attack because all the formians are flat-footed against that one instance of an attack?

Also, what are Ninja'd and Swordsage'd?

Ninja'd means someone posted what you were posting before you could, as will happen to me during this post. Swordsage'd is because swordsages are better ninja than the actual ninja class, according to most.

Dust
2011-02-17, 06:46 PM
As for the formians, if none of them are aware of the rogue, then the first one the rogue attacks will indeed be flat-footed. After that, none of them will be.

nedz
2011-02-17, 06:48 PM
Remember how formians are 'not flat-footed' unless all of them are? Does that mean a rogue that no formian sees can't sneak attack it just beacuse one of them just happens to be alert to something else entirely, or does the rogue get their sneak attack because all the formians are flat-footed against that one instance of an attack?

A Rouge gains sneak attack damage when their opponent is denied dex to AC. Being Flat Footed is just one way of achieving that.


Also, what are Ninja'd and Swordsage'd?

Being Ninja'd is probably what is about to happen to me, unless I type faster than the next poster: in which case I will ninja them. Basically it means that someone else posts the same information whilst you are typing your response.

Swordsage'd is the TOB version.:smallbiggrin:

Ed: Eric'd - thats half a Ninja :smallbiggrin:

Shade Kerrin
2011-02-17, 06:53 PM
Opinion post:
Ninja'd should stay Ninja'd. Swordsage is a class, which by personal opinion makes it a mere meta-game construction. Therefore, Ninja-ing is Ninja-ing even if done by a swordsage.

Cerlis
2011-02-17, 06:55 PM
yes flat footest is just short for "Suprised by an attack to the point of not being able to dodge it under normal circumstances"

So its not so much that one is ever flat footed. but rather, that an attack made against you in a particular instance (usually suprise) means you are unable to dodge effectively (so you only have your armor, size, and NA to help you),

For instance, with feignting you are treated as flat footed, even though you know the rogue is there. you where suprised by the attack, and thus cannot dodge it.

think about uncanny dodge. A barbarian or rogue may be suprised by an attack, but because their senses are honed to immediately avoid any dangerous situation, they are still able to react instinctively and dodge, and thus cant be caught flat footed.

In other words. Flat footed isnt a status effect. its a representation of whether or not a creature is able to defend himself from an attack.

I think a better question is since some things say "treat as flat footed" (like feignting i believe), does that mean they are not actually flat footed and thus the formian ability doesnt protect against that?

No brains
2011-02-17, 06:56 PM
Ed: Eric'd - thats half a Ninja :smallbiggrin:

Why is Eric half a ninja?

RebelRogue
2011-02-17, 07:18 PM
La dee dee, one two three,
Eric the half a bee.
A B C D E F G,
Eric the half a beeninja.

Siosilvar
2011-02-17, 07:21 PM
In other words. Flat footed isnt a status effect. its a representation of whether or not a creature is able to defend himself from an attack.

The condition summary (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/conditionSummary.htm#flatFooted) disagrees with you.

That said, Dust is right. Flat-footed ought to be relative - you can be flat-footed against something but not something else.

If you are unaware of something, you're flat-footed against it. As soon as one of the formians is aware of your rogue, they all are (until you turn invisible or something like that).

No brains
2011-02-17, 07:22 PM
La dee dee, one two three,
Eric the half a bee.
A B C D E F G,
Eric the half a beeninja.

Where is that from? You might have to vivisect the joke down until its not funny so I can understand it.

RebelRogue
2011-02-17, 07:27 PM
Where is that from? You might have to vivisect the joke down until its not funny so I can understand it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MlrsqGal64w

No brains
2011-02-18, 01:46 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MlrsqGal64w

Well, I see the beating heart and breathing lungs, but where's the ninja? I'll check behind them! Splort! Killed the joke, but still don't understand where the ninja comes in...

faceroll
2011-02-18, 04:10 PM
Wow, all these posts, no answering the OPs first question.


All formians within 50 miles of their queen are in constant communication. If one is aware of a particular danger, they all are. If one in a group is not flat-footed, none of them are. No formian in a group is considered flanked unless all of them are.

I think the RAW intends to be for a particular group of formians that the party encounters. Sentences 2 suggests that sentence 3 and 4 are contingent on at least one formian being unflanked and seeing the flanker or being not flat footed and being aware of the hiding rogue.

grimbold
2011-02-18, 04:23 PM
As for the formians, if none of them are aware of the rogue, then the first one the rogue attacks will indeed be flat-footed. After that, none of them will be.

you are exactly correct dust