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View Full Version : [PF] Help Wanted: Building a Martial Arts Flavored Melee Debuffer



CylustheVirus
2011-02-17, 07:40 PM
Greetings programs! I could really use your ideas and suggestions for a character I'm trying to build in a Pathfinder game.

The Concept:

The image I've got in mind is a martial artist effortlessly dodging blows while delivering pinpoint strikes that leave his opponents doubled over on the floor, disarmed, blinded, deafened, knocked down, and generally rendered harmless.

Raw damage isn't the point of this concept (I have party members for that) - it's all about frustrating the aims of aggressors and setting up opportunities for the rest of the party. A bit of offense if I'm caught alone would be nice, but is secondary.

Campaign Constraints:

1. Must be good aligned.
2. No non-core races.
3. No Psionics.
4. I have the following stats to assign: 8 11 11 12 16 17 and I can add 1 to one of them for free.
5. We were told to build at 15th level, but track the progression at each level. I hear we may end up playing as ourselves at lower levels too due to time-tom foolery, so low or mid-level survivability may factor in.

My ideas thus far (adapted for Pathfinder with minimal alteration if any):

1. Fax Celestis' Homebrew Monk (GM Approved) found here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=98238).

2. Unarmed Swordsage

Those would seem closest to the concept I'm trying to pursue, but I'm willing to entertain options that aren't so monk-ish if the control options are potent enough. Unarmed fighting isn't a *must* but it would be a plus. I'm open to persuasion of course. I really like the idea of messing with my opponents from the front lines and I don't want to play a caster. :)


Any class/feat/general build recommendations or experiences would be of great use. I'd also be grateful for any links or search terms - mine haven't been as productive as I'd like, hence the post.

Thank you in advance!

Fax Celestis
2011-02-18, 12:13 AM
1. Fax Celestis' Homebrew Monk (GM Approved) found here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=98238).

Beat me to the...
:smallcool:
...punch. (http://instantrimshot.com/index.php?sound=csi)

Honestly, I made the d20r monk that way because I couldn't find another instance of a non-caster melee debuffer style, which really disappointed me. I love love love playing buffer/debuffer characters, and, well...The hexblade is a gigantic disappointment and the spellthief can only do so much (and only in the hands of the capable), and they're both still halfcasters! ToB characters kill things, not debuff them (unless you're very picky with your maneuver selection and mostly grab Diamond Mind, Setting Sun, and Shadow Hand as a swordsage), so that's sort of a wash too. Not to toot my own horn or anything, but if you want to play a non-caster melee debuffer, my monk's about it.

PS: this thread comes with the Athena Jade Celestis seal of approval:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v216/FaxCelestis/awesomefaceathena-1.jpg

CylustheVirus
2011-02-18, 12:42 PM
Yep, think I'm going to run your Monk, Fax. Thanks so much for building this. The more I read the more it really does hit the nail on the head.

The Cat Goddess
2011-02-18, 12:48 PM
There's a Monk PrC in the Dragon Compendium which has a bunch of status effect abilities...

Sorry, I don't recall the name right now.

Tael
2011-02-18, 01:29 PM
There is a Monk Class Acts article in which it details a very versatile feat called Pressure Point Strike, which lets you debuff enemies, and buff/remove conditions from your friends.

But yeah, Fax's monk blows it out of the water.

Doc Roc
2011-02-18, 02:25 PM
Not to toot my own horn or anything, but if you want to play a non-caster melee debuffer, my monk's about it.

That's a claim I can only describe as hilariously bold.

Human Paragon 3
2011-02-18, 03:14 PM
But are you bold... AND daring?

Doc Roc
2011-02-18, 03:19 PM
But are you bold... AND daring?

Classically I am considered to be bold, daring, and ridiculously lethal. Largely because it turns out that sometimes brute force and a hard head really are the solution.`

arguskos
2011-02-18, 03:22 PM
Classically I am considered to be bold, daring, and ridiculously lethal. Largely because it turns out that sometimes brute force and a hard head really are the solution.`
Doc Roc? Bold, daring, and lethal? No way! :smalltongue:

Yeah, I didn't have anything to recommend. If you want a crazy high-powered Monk, Doc's got the Legend Monk running around somewhere in the Homebrew forum I think. It was pretty scary as I recall.

Doc Roc
2011-02-18, 04:24 PM
There's a 20 level version in the alpha in my sig. It's not particularly oriented towards Debuffs, but the War-marked had that as one of its design goals.

I will mention that one of the most powerful debuff conditions is [Dead].

Keld Denar
2011-02-18, 04:43 PM
Dead is not a defined condition like Unconsious or Dying are. There are no rules on the mechanical penalties for dead. Since it is undefined, it must have no impact on gameplay and be descriptive text.

:smallcool:

Doc Roc
2011-02-18, 04:47 PM
Dead is not a defined condition like Unconsious or Dying are. There are no rules on the mechanical penalties for dead. Since it is undefined, it must have no impact on gameplay and be descriptive text.

:smallcool:

From the SRD:
Dead
The character’s hit points are reduced to -10, his Constitution drops to 0, or he is killed outright by a spell or effect. The character’s soul leaves his body. Dead characters cannot benefit from normal or magical healing, but they can be restored to life via magic. A dead body decays normally unless magically preserved, but magic that restores a dead character to life also restores the body either to full health or to its condition at the time of death (depending on the spell or device). Either way, resurrected characters need not worry about rigor mortis, decomposition, and other conditions that affect dead bodies.


My notes: You are still unconscious, as that condition does not simply go away. So, I'd say it has a pretty firm set of definitions.

You of all people, Keld.

Elric VIII
2011-02-18, 05:23 PM
I was toying with a build like this once.

Cleric 4/Ordained Champion 5/Sacred Fist 10 works nicely.

With Improved Unarmed Strike you can deliver all of those nice Cleric debuffs as melee attacks (Comp Mage rules) and you can even get a second attack with Snap Kick which can either be used as a normal attack if your 1st discharges the spell or to get a 2nd attempt to discharge the spell if you miss the 1st.
EDIT: Here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=185155) is a thread discussing this.

I would go with the Spontaneous Divine Caster from Unearthed Arcana and remember that text trumps table (WotC policy) for Sacred Fist, so it's a full casting class. You need to use the OC ability to trade in domain powers for feats in order to easily qualify for SF without Monk. Also, if you're Good aligned you can use Intuitive Strike for Wis to attack (and eventually damage with the OC capstone). There's nothing more fun than the PUNCH OF BESTOW CURSE.