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JamesW
2011-02-18, 06:43 AM
Hello everyone! I've been using these forums for reference material for about two weeks now and have decided to finally make a post and see what everyone thinks about my current 3.5 d&d build for my Goliath character I plan to play in the future. I currently only have the build order up to level #. If you have an suggestions on how to improve the build, items, or classes please let me know.

The object of this character is to charge, shield bash, and trip my opponent then move onto the next target on the next round. Kind of a tank with crowd control.

Race: Goliath
LA: +1
Stats: Used a 32 point buy system. Str: 20, Dex: 10, Con: 16, Int: 14, Wis: 12, Cha: 10 I tried not to min-max the stats... sort of.. as you can see my lowest stats are 10s. I try to avoid neg mods when ever I can. The other stat line I was thinking about going with is this... Str: 18, Dex: 12, Con: 16, Int: 14, Wis: 12, Cha: 12. Both have their advantages.. I am just on the edge trying to decide on whether I want the dex and cha to both have positive modifiers or not. These stats are after the ability adjustments provided by the race Goliath.

Onto the build.

1st level

Class: Warblade
Reason: d12hd, It also gets me started into the manuvers early allowing me to extra abilities to avoid traps or just have fun playing.

Skills: Balance(4), Climb(1), Concentration(4), Intimidate(4), Jump(4), Swim(1), Knowledge Local(1), Tumble(4)

Feats: Battle Clarity(Reflex Saves), Weapon Aptitude, (lvl 1 bonus feat)Combat Expertise

Manuvers/Stance: Leading the Charge(Stance), Moment of Perfect Mind, Sudden Leap, Leading the Attack


Level 2: Class: Fighter, Fighter Bonus Feat: Improved Shield Bash, Maneuver: Battle Leaders Charge(if you round down to determine your total level to determine maneuvers then this will be next level.)

Level 3: Class: Fighter, Fighter Bonus Feat: Shield Charge, lvl 3 bonus feat: Improved Trip

Level 4: Class: Warblade, Manuver: Action Before Thought, Feat: Uncanny Dodge, +1 Str

Level 5: Class: Warblade, Stance: Leaping Dragon Stance, Manuver: not sure yet, Feat: Battle Ardor

Level 6: Class: Fighter, lvl 6 bonus feat: Shield Slam

Level 7: Class Fighter, lvl 4 fighter bonus feat: Shield Specialization


After this I'm not quite sure how I'm planning on building this character.

The idea behind this character is that I will be able to trip three people a combat, hopefully, while doing some decent damage and having fun.

First round, normal charge + trip. Then I can use Sudden Leap along with Leaping Dragon Stance to initiate a charge with a jump action that does not provoke a AoO(because I'm activating a maneuver as a swift action) then switch to leading the charge as a swift action to get that bonus on the shield bash. After this is done I can use Battle Leaders Charge, again with no AoOs against me because it is a maneuver. Charge again with a shield bash that does +10 damage. At anyone point in these charges I can use leading the attack to give my allies +4 to attack the target I just hit, or I can have MoPM or ABT in place to keep myself safe.

Later on I plan on getting Agile Shield Fighter, which is the only reason I picked up Shield Specialization.

I also have some questions. According to my research on the net I can use my shield to attack with and if I only use the shield to attack with I do not have to take a -mod on the attack roll because I wont be attacking with the weapon in my other hand. Is this thought process correct?

Also, I've looked everywhere I can think and I have been unable to find definitive rules on what a shield bash replaces. Can I then use a shield bash to trigger an attack made with my maneuvers from the Warblade class? Specifically the maneuvers that add +#d6 damage to the attack.

I've contemplated just running as a human. The bonus feat will help set everything up early, but I really like the bonuses from Goliath. Anyone have any other opinions about which race I should play? I'd like to have no LA if possible..

I eventually plan on having a heavy steel shield with bashing and a shield spike with some effects on it. I'm not sure what yet however. What would you recommend?

If I go with Goliath, their lore states that they don't like to cover up their markings because their are a sign of their destiny and who they are. Anyone know of a way I can get higher armor values without sacrificing role play appearance/value?

An ending thought. I'm not trying to make a character that kills anything in one hit. I'm trying to make a character that will be fun to role play, but also be able to back up his mouth if needed. I kind of visioned Maximus from the movie Gladiator when he was fighting the other gladiator in the brass armor. Sword and Board but made use of the shield a lot to disorient his opponent to get the advantage.

Thanks in advance!

Runestar
2011-02-18, 07:17 AM
Champions of valour has glass-steel, which is essentially a more expensive version of mithral, and as you may have guessed, it is transparent. So a goliath wearing such armour would still be able to display his tattoos.

Darrin
2011-02-18, 08:48 AM
I also have some questions. According to my research on the net I can use my shield to attack with and if I only use the shield to attack with I do not have to take a -mod on the attack roll because I wont be attacking with the weapon in my other hand. Is this thought process correct?


The "shield bash" rules in the PHB/SRD assume you're using the Two-Weapon-Fighting rules with the shield as your off-hand weapon. However, you can use a shield as a *primary* martial bludgeoning weapon without using the TWF rules. The PHB/SRD don't really state this explicitly, but the FAQ says shields can be used as primary weapons. You still lose your shield's AC bonus until next round, unless you have Improved Shield Bash.

You can even hold a weapon in your other hand if you like, and if you have multiple iterative attacks, use both weapons in the same full-attack without incurring any penalties. TWF penalties only apply when you want to get an extra attack with an off-hand weapon. You can wield two weapons and choose not to make any off-hand attacks.

Any weapon you have ready can become your primary weapon. This includes shields, armor spikes, and natural weapons. You can choose to switch your primary weapon whenever you like, even during the same attack routine. For example, if you had a longsword in one hand, a shield in your other hand, armor spikes, and a BAB of +11, you could use all three in the same full attack without any additional penalty:

+11 (longsword), +6 (shield bash), +1 (armor spikes)

TWF with a light shield means your longsword would become your primary weapon, and your attack would look more like:

+9 (longsword), +9 (off-hand shield bash), +4 (longsword), -1 (longsword)

What Agile Shield Fighter does is it reduces the TWF off-hand penalty from a heavy shield (treated as a one-handed weapon, so it's not light) from -4 to -2 (a light shield already only incurs a -2 TWF penalty). It also allows you to "skip" taking the TWF feat, since anyone can use the TWF rules without the TWF feat. Instead of the usual -6/-10 or -4/-8 penalties, you can jump straight to -2/-2. However, if you want to pick up Improved/Greater TWF later, you still need the TWF feat. (Note: Gloves of the Balanced Hand grants TWF or Improved TWF, 8000 GP, Magic Item Compendium p. 105.)

If you want to shield bash with a heavy shield, it's actually easier to make a two-handed attack with it (one-handed weapons can be held with two hands for x1.5 Str bonus and/or better Power Attack multipliers), and if you still want to TWF, use armor spikes or an unarmed strike as your off-hand attack.



Also, I've looked everywhere I can think and I have been unable to find definitive rules on what a shield bash replaces. Can I then use a shield bash to trigger an attack made with my maneuvers from the Warblade class? Specifically the maneuvers that add +#d6 damage to the attack.


"Shield bash" doesn't replace anything, it's just like any other attack made with a martial bludgeoning weapon. Thus, you can use it with any maneuver, just like any other weapon.



I've contemplated just running as a human. The bonus feat will help set everything up early, but I really like the bonuses from Goliath. Anyone have any other opinions about which race I should play? I'd like to have no LA if possible..


Half-Giant is very similar to Goliath, but starts with 2 power points, which can be useful if you want to work the expansion power into your build. This stacks with Powerful Build, so a half-giant wielding a large weapon and expanding to large size is now wielding a huge weapon, gets 10' of reach, and is treated as a huge creature for opposed checks such as trip.

There's a human-only regional feat called Jotunbrud in Races of Faerun that is somewhat similar to Powerful Build. It doesn't allow you to wield larger weapons, but it does allow you to treat yourself as large-sized when making opposed checks such as trip. Other than that, a human with the expansion power is the easiest way to get large at ECL 1 with no level adjustment.

There's also a touchstone site in Sandstorm, Sunken City of Pazar (pinched from an old 1st edition Desert of Desolation module), that can give you the equivalent of Powerful Build 1/day for 1 minute. The Sandstorm version of the Touchstone feat requires 8 ranks of Knowledge (Local) *or* a 250 GP touchstone key... so in theory, if you can scrape up 250 GP for the key + 250 GP for the ritual, you could take the Touchstone feat at ECL 3.

If you're willing to wait until you can afford it, any character can wield larger-sized weapons with Strongarm Bracers (6000 GP, Magic Item Compendium p. 139). The bracers don't stack with Powerful Build, but they do work with other size increases, such as enlarge person or expansion.

Person_Man has a guide for increasing your size/unarmed damage/reach (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=127732).



I eventually plan on having a heavy steel shield with bashing and a shield spike with some effects on it. I'm not sure what yet however. What would you recommend?


Start with Person_Man's Guide to Shields (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=123630).

Any particular reason you're not going into Bloodstorm Blade? Thunderous Throw lets you make shield bash attacks as ranged attacks, but still Power Attack and trip as if they were melee attacks. Also, since your shield returns to you immediately, with Improved Shield Bash you never lose your shield bonus to AC.

Dungeoncrasher (Fighter ACF in Dungeonscape) combined with Knock-Back, Shock Trooper (for Directed Bull Rush and Domino Rush), and Improved Trip is a particularly effective combo: see Person_Man's Flaming Homer (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4108954&postcount=22) build for details, but essentially: Attack an opponent, get a free bull rush to shove him into another opponent (taking 8d6 damage from Dungeoncrasher), you get two free trip attempts against both opponents (Domino Rush), if both of those succeed you get 2 more free attacks (Improved Trip), which you can then use to bull-rush the same opponents again, triggering Dungeoncrasher again.

JamesW
2011-02-18, 04:12 PM
Ohhh darn. I like the flaming homer build. Sounds like fun and really over powered.. but I can't use psionics.

I forgot to add that stipulation into the restrictions.

Thanks for all the helpful advice though!

Keld Denar
2011-02-18, 04:26 PM
Any weapon you have ready can become your primary weapon. This includes shields, armor spikes, and natural weapons. You can choose to switch your primary weapon whenever you like, even during the same attack routine. For example, if you had a longsword in one hand, a shield in your other hand, armor spikes, and a BAB of +11, you could use all three in the same full attack without any additional penalty:

The bolded part is wrong. Natural weapons function under completely different mechanics than iterative weapons. You can NOT substitute a natural attack at any point you could make an iterative attack. Any time you attack with an iterative weapon (any manufactured weapon OR unarmed strike), any natural weapons you have become secondary natural weapons, which are similar but not offhand attacks.

Natural weapons are kinda complicated, so me and Solo made a guide. Enjoy. (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=10994.0)