something that's been bothering me...

[Chaos rising]

In start of darkness, Xykon reveals that he wasn't worried about Right eyes attack because he has a ring that protects from positive energy/disruptive attacks. Yet in the first book, he shatters Roy's sword to keep him from hitting him with (as I understand it) the same type of attack. Is there a difference between the two spells, or am I just over-thinking this?
I just think that Xykon is more the type to take the hit and then laugh at his opponent when it doesn't work.

[pinwiz]

yes it's the same energy type. Though it's entirely possible Xykon broke his sword just to mess with him. Xykon probably thought it was hilarious that the fighter who planned so well got beat by a single spell that broke his sword.

[KingFlameHawk]

yes it's the same energy type. Though it's entirely possible Xykon broke his sword just to mess with him. Xykon probably thought it was hilarious that the fighter who planned so well got beat by a single spell that broke his sword.

I would have to agree with this but there is another explaination. It is possible that between SoD and that battle he lost the ring. He is a real scatter brain and he once had an entire strip (95) devoted to him raising the dead to look for his keys which were in his pocket the entire time. That or he forgot about the ring, which is entirly in his character as well.

[doodthedud]

I've never read Start of Darkness, but...isn't it possible Xykon was bluffing to crush any idea of rebellion by seeming very prepared? He does have high Charisma....

[Morquard]

Maybe.
Remember the warning the young goblin gave Xykon was not "Watch out, the blade is enchanted with positve energy", no it was "one hit will utterly destroy you" (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0112.html)
Why should Xykon take the risk and assume that this means "positive energy which i'm protected against" and not "something that I'm not protected against"?
After all there's all kinds of whacky hijinks in D&D magic system, if you know what and who you're up against, scry and use divination, you can come up with the one perfect spell that your enemy is completely helpless against.

[SPoD]

I would have to agree with this but there is another explaination. It is possible that between SoD and that battle he lost the ring. He is a real scatter brain and the gain once had an entire strip (95) devoted to him raising the dead to look for his keys which were in his pocket the entire time. That or he forgot about the ring, which is entirly in his character as well.

Even if he has it and remembers it, he simply may not wear it at all times. You can only wear two rings at a time, and at the time, we know he had a Ring of Wizardry. We've also know that he has an unnamed magic item of Fire Immunity, which may be a ring. He may simply have decided that for day-to-day use, the Ring of Protection from Positive Energy wasn't as useful as another ring he owns.

He knew what Right-Eye was plotting at the time, so it WAS useful to wear it then. But he doesn't learn about Roy's plan to use Disruption until the battle is joined.

[Dr.Epic]

yes it's the same energy type. Though it's entirely possible Xykon broke his sword just to mess with him. Xykon probably thought it was hilarious that the fighter who planned so well got beat by a single spell that broke his sword.

Wouldn't it be more hilarious to have Roy attack and see his attack do nothing and then Xykon just beat him senseless?

[Forum Explorer]

Maybe.
Remember the warning the young goblin gave Xykon was not "Watch out, the blade is enchanted with positve energy", no it was "one hit will utterly destroy you" (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0112.html)
Why should Xykon take the risk and assume that this means "positive energy which i'm protected against" and not "something that I'm not protected against"?
After all there's all kinds of whacky hijinks in D&D magic system, if you know what and who you're up against, scry and use divination, you can come up with the one perfect spell that your enemy is completely helpless against.

I think its this. Xykon didn't know which spell it was and decided to destroy the sword rather than risk the hit.

[Chaos rising]

Wouldn't it be more hilarious to have Roy attack and see his attack do nothing and then Xykon just beat him senseless?

This was my thought, but Morquard has a good point.

[Thanatosia]

Even if he has it and remembers it, he simply may not wear it at all times. You can only wear two rings at a time, and at the time, we know he had a Ring of Wizardry. We've also know that he has an unnamed magic item of Fire Immunity, which may be a ring. He may simply have decided that for day-to-day use, the Ring of Protection from Positive Energy wasn't as useful as another ring he owns.

He knew what Right-Eye was plotting at the time, so it WAS useful to wear it then. But he doesn't learn about Roy's plan to use Disruption until the battle is joined.
This seems by far the most likely explanation. Xykon probably has massive amounts of magic items built up, but he can only use so many at a time, he simply had other gear equipped.

[Phishfood]

He also could have traded in that ring for something he thought was better once righteye was out of the picture. You don't keep your ring of fire resist on when you enter the temple of ice.

[Morquard]

I don't really know about the "He's not wearing it anymore" part.
I mean seriously, if I were an undead abomination powered by negative energy, then I have to assume the first thing any enemy tosses at me is positive energy. If I find an item that makes me immune to that, I'd never take it off again.

[Fontaine]

I don't really know about the "He's not wearing it anymore" part.
I mean seriously, if I were an undead abomination powered by negative energy, then I have to assume the first thing any enemy tosses at me is positive energy. If I find an item that makes me immune to that, I'd never take it off again.

This is Xykon we're talking about. You expect common sense?

[Alex Warlorn]

Or Xykon was bluffing (which he can do without even trying) and the Ring of Wizardy that V' got off him before was 'that ring.' It would be the ultimate testament to Xykon knowing how to lie flawlessly and able to see through other's lies.

It's entirely possible he knew Redcloak was just buying time before in Azure City, but didn't mind since he was still finding way to amuse himself.

[Qwertystop]

The spell cast on Roy's Sword (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0104.html) was Disruption (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/magicWeapons.htm#disruption).
I couldn't find a listing for the spell, but the Disruption special ability on a weapon (Linked above) is not specifically stated as being Positive Energy. It's just "Undead must make a DC 14 Will save or be destroyed." Then again, a weapon with that ability must be Bludgeoning, so it may have been a homebrew spell that granted a modified version of the ability.

[Morquard]

This is Xykon we're talking about. You expect common sense?
When it comes to his own survival Xykon can be surprisingly clear-minded.

[Cizak]

One thing I've been wondering some time is, if "one hit willl utterly destroy" Xykon when you weaponis enchanted with Disruption, why didn't Durkon cast it again when Roy was gonna jump onto Xykon's dragon?

[Morquard]

One thing I've been wondering some time is, if "one hit willl utterly destroy" Xykon when you weaponis enchanted with Disruption, why didn't Durkon cast it again when Roy was gonna jump onto Xykon's dragon?
Well think about it: The dungeon was filled with what? CR 2 goblins? They slashed right through every one of them... well except when they were running like little girls.

They figured the BBEG would be higher of course, but epic level? Sure an epic level sorcerer would have higher level minions than that.

So they guessed that Xykon is maybe level 10 max, and then that would/could have worked.
Since then they found out alot more about Xykon, and realised they'll need alot more to take him down.

And don't forget just because they think that it would "utterly destroy him" or a goblin kid thinks that's what they think, doesn't make it true even if Xykon would have been lower level.

Also possible that Durkon didn't prepare the spell that day, concentrating on other things more usefull in a siege, or that Roy just jumped to quickly before Durkon realised it

[Qwertystop]

Well think about it: The dungeon was filled with what? CR 2 goblins? They slashed right through every one of them... well except when they were running like little girls.

They figured the BBEG would be higher of course, but epic level? Sure an epic level sorcerer would have higher level minions than that.

So they guessed that Xykon is maybe level 10 max, and then that would/could have worked.
Since then they found out alot more about Xykon, and realised they'll need alot more to take him down.

And don't forget just because they think that it would "utterly destroy him" or a goblin kid thinks that's what they think, doesn't make it true even if Xykon would have been lower level.

Also possible that Durkon didn't prepare the spell that day, concentrating on other things more usefull in a siege, or that Roy just jumped to quickly before Durkon realised it

Yeah, as I said above, the Disrupting weapon quality will only destroy the undead if they fail a DC 14 will save. If they thought it would work, they clearly didn't realize Xykon was Epic level, since there's no way an Epic Lich Sorcerer would fail that save w/o a natural 1.

[Swordpriest]

It's also remotely possible that it's because the comic was still largely in its joke-a-day mode then, and SoD was made long after the tightly plotted part began. So there may be no deep significance except at that point in the comic, SoD had neither been written nor conceived of, and thus the idea of Xykon having the ring didn't exist yet.

That's my contribution of logic for today. Carry on. :smallsigh:

[FujinAkari]

Yeah, as I said above, the Disrupting weapon quality will only destroy the undead if they fail a DC 14 will save. If they thought it would work, they clearly didn't realize Xykon was Epic level, since there's no way an Epic Lich Sorcerer would fail that save w/o a natural 1.

To be fair, Rich didn't realize that Xykon was epic level at that point in the storyline :P

[Qwertystop]

To be fair, Rich didn't realize that Xykon was epic level at that point in the storyline :P

What storyline?

[Tass]

What storyline?

The OotS storyline?

[HappyBlanket]

The spell cast on Roy's Sword (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0104.html) was Disruption (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/magicWeapons.htm#disruption).
I couldn't find a listing for the spell, but the Disruption special ability on a weapon (Linked above) is not specifically stated as being Positive Energy. It's just "Undead must make a DC 14 Will save or be destroyed." Then again, a weapon with that ability must be Bludgeoning, so it may have been a homebrew spell that granted a modified version of the ability.


Yo (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/disruptingWeapon.htm).

I like the idea of Xykon having switched Rings though. He makes a lot of magic items (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0543.html), I assume he's made himself a pretty significant collection.

[Qwertystop]

The OotS storyline?

I meant, as of that point in the comic, there wasn't much of a storyline.

[G-Man Graves]

I have a better question regarding said positive energy spell. Why didn't Durkon cast it on Roy's weapon again at Azure City? He was right there! (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0429.html)

[Herald Alberich]

Take a look at HappyBlanket's link again. The spell, as it turns out, is entirely useless against Xykon: he would have to have a level equal to or less than Durkon's to even be required to make a Will save.

The first time, they didn't know that. By the time of Azure City, they'd figured it out.

[Nimrod's Son]

I have a better question regarding said positive energy spell. Why didn't Durkon cast it on Roy's weapon again at Azure City? He was right there! (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0429.html)
Maybe they figured he didn't need it. Roy's sword wasn't made of Starmetal the first time they fought.

[NerfTW]

I have a better question regarding said positive energy spell. Why didn't Durkon cast it on Roy's weapon again at Azure City? He was right there! (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0429.html)

How do you know he didn't? The didn't show every buff and spell cast before or during the battle, that would have been pointless.

[Forum Explorer]

I have a better question regarding said positive energy spell. Why didn't Durkon cast it on Roy's weapon again at Azure City? He was right there! (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0429.html)

Not enough time to get all of the buffs perhaps? Disruption wasn't as important as the others. Or Durkon didn't prepare it that day.

[Red XIV]

Most likely, they knew by that point that it wasn't actually going to be effective against Xykon (the will save is just too easy for somebody of his level), so Durkon didn't even both preparing the spell.

[Supercomputers]

How do you know he didn't?

His sword wasn't all white and fluffy :smalltongue:



It's also remotely possible that it's because the comic was still largely in its joke-a-day mode then, and SoD was made long after the tightly plotted part began. So there may be no deep significance except at that point in the comic, SoD had neither been written nor conceived of, and thus the idea of Xykon having the ring didn't exist yet.

That's my contribution of logic for today. Carry on. :smallsigh:


And yeah everyones overthinking this...

[Conuly]

You can only wear two rings at a time, and at the time, we know he had a Ring of Wizardry.

Really? Why? You have ten fingers, and an equal number of toes if you're desperate!

[Qwertystop]

Really? Why? You have ten fingers, and an equal number of toes if you're desperate!

Magic item rules. You can technically wear all the rings you want, but only 2 matter statwise.

[megabyter5]

Magic item rules. You can technically wear all the rings you want, but only 2 matter statwise.

Although, there is an epic feat that lets you wear an extra magic item, which can be used for an extra ring slot. Or, you can take it to wear multiple hats.

Not that you should take it in the first place, since the MIC gives rules for adding new abilities to existing magic items, so you could just stack more effects onto the rings and hat you're already wearing.

[WowWeird]

Yeah, as I said above, the Disrupting weapon quality will only destroy the undead if they fail a DC 14 will save. If they thought it would work, they clearly didn't realize Xykon was Epic level, since there's no way an Epic Lich Sorcerer would fail that save w/o a natural 1.
Well, here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0672.html), despite Roy knowing that Xykon was at least 18th level (Meteor Swarm + "He has seven spell levels on [a third level wizard]!"), Roy still seems to think that the spell has tactical value. Why?
OH, THE MYSTERY!!!! :smallwink:

[Narren]

Well, here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0672.html), despite Roy knowing that Xykon was at least 18th level (Meteor Swarm + "He has seven spell levels on [a third level wizard]!"), Roy still seems to think that the spell has tactical value. Why?
OH, THE MYSTERY!!!! :smallwink:

I think he meant he would going to disrupt whatever spell Xykon would be casting. His grandpa taught him that new feat in the afterlife to do just that.

[CletusMusashi]

Since he doesn't breathe, eat, drink, or even use normal speaking mechanisms, Xykon should keep all of his extra magic rings stacked up in his mouth like a Pez dispensor. I'd suggest the idea to him myself, but unfortunately I have a rather pressing engagement elsewhere...

[Souhiro]

Yeah, as I said above, the Disrupting weapon quality will only destroy the undead if they fail a DC 14 will save. If they thought it would work, they clearly didn't realize Xykon was Epic level, since there's no way an Epic Lich Sorcerer would fail that save w/o a natural 1.

You know. Roy could deal three hits each turn. If he was able to survive a few rounds with a disrupting weapon, he would have been utterly destroyed. Then I must ask, an utterly destroyed Lich could regenerate from the phylactery?

It is a pity... a Monk with a Disrupting Nunchaku, in the Zombie Dragon, could deal 5 attacks with flurry, plus one more AoO (when Xykon casts) So in four rounds, Xykon could have been defeated! By a MONK, no less!

About the "Ring that protect against positive energy", Xykon original skeleton was destroyed, and Haley searched his corpse from any valuables. If it carried any ring, she would have find out, like the Ring of Wizardry that is now in V's hand. So, Xykon didn't carry his "Anti Positive Energy Ring" that day, and he was vulnerable to being disrupted.

About a Durkon's Mass Disrupt , if Haley Manyshots Xykon a volley of disrupting arrows, and Roy -and Belkster, who was alive when he was planning- spans tons of slashes on Xykon, he is bound to get an one among his many of his saving throws.

[pasko77]

"Disrupt" says that it affects only undead of HD less or equal to the caster level.
Doesn't it make the spell useless against X?

[Trickywiggy]

It has already been pointed out that the ring of wizardry was looted from Xykon's finger. I mean maybe the looting was rushed because of the explosion, but it probably would have been a part of the loot that the group split up, you know when Roy gets the bag of tricks? Course I doubt Xykon's second ring slot was a ring of jumping. So it was probably blown up.

[Herald Alberich]

"Disrupt" says that it affects only undead of HD less or equal to the caster level.
Doesn't it make the spell useless against X?

Yes. I pointed this out earlier.

[Qwertystop]

You know. Roy could deal three hits each turn. If he was able to survive a few rounds with a disrupting weapon, he would have been utterly destroyed. Then I must ask, an utterly destroyed Lich could regenerate from the phylactery?

It is a pity... a Monk with a Disrupting Nunchaku, in the Zombie Dragon, could deal 5 attacks with flurry, plus one more AoO (when Xykon casts) So in four rounds, Xykon could have been defeated! By a MONK, no less!

About the "Ring that protect against positive energy", Xykon original skeleton was destroyed, and Haley searched his corpse from any valuables. If it carried any ring, she would have find out, like the Ring of Wizardry that is now in V's hand. So, Xykon didn't carry his "Anti Positive Energy Ring" that day, and he was vulnerable to being disrupted.

About a Durkon's Mass Disrupt , if Haley Manyshots Xykon a volley of disrupting arrows, and Roy -and Belkster, who was alive when he was planning- spans tons of slashes on Xykon, he is bound to get an one among his many of his saving throws.
Firstly: The Monk would need to hit Xykon before Xykon would even need to bother with a save.
Secondly: The Disrupting spell would need to be cast by an Epic cleric, which Durkon is not.
Thirdly: The Mass spell is not a Mass Disrupt, its a Mass Protection From Negative Energy Effects (or something like that).