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the_archduke
2011-02-18, 02:21 PM
Simple question, is there any way to get an Ur-Priest to cast off of charisma rather than wisdom?

Urpriest
2011-02-18, 02:24 PM
Dynamic Priest is the standard way to get at least part of the casting off Charisma. It's from a Dragonlance book...Legend of the Twins IIRC.

faceroll
2011-02-18, 02:27 PM
Old Blood, from the third party Bastards and Bloodlines, is a feat that lets you cast off ANY stat. That book's a bit broken, though.

Maho-Tsukai
2011-02-18, 03:09 PM
All of those feats can only be taken at first level and thus I assume can they only be used on the casting of a class which you can take at 1st level and last time I checked the Ur-Priest was a PrC so if I am correct none of those feats apply. However, if you want a Ur-Priest with a high Cha who uses wisdom for absolutly nothing then instead of trying to get Cha as your casting stat why not look to another source, the taint. The PrC Tainted Sorcerer(Which is a basicly a Maho-Tsukai with 10 less levels and Cl incresing instead of it's own list.) changes your casting stat to your taint score and has some very easy Pre-recs except for an RP prerec that most DMs will handwave anyway. Sure, you don't have cha as your casting stat but you also at that point rely on wisdom for absolutly nothing...not even bonus spells. You could dumb wisdom and it would make no difference to your casting.(though your will saves would take a massive hit seeing as your now tainted spellcasting lowers your wisdom even further.)

Yeah, I know, it may not be EXACTLY what you want but it allows you to make an Ur-Priest who never needs to use wisdom for anything casting related and thus can focus on charisma as their main stat.

Urpriest
2011-02-18, 03:13 PM
Actually, Wis is fairly necessary for tainted spellcasters (provided you're referring to the Tainted Scholar like I think you are) as it controls the point at which your depravity rises high enough for you to go insane and become an NPC. So you can't exactly dump it.

Derjuin
2011-02-18, 03:22 PM
Depending on how many levels you have to play around with, Geomancer (CDiv) lets you apply Arcane and Divine specifications to each other; so if you have Charisma-based Arcane, you can cast off Charisma for Divine. However, you have to take all 10 levels of Geomancer to get the ability to apply to 9th level spells...

Urpriest
2011-02-18, 03:29 PM
Depending on how many levels you have to play around with, Geomancer (CDiv) lets you apply Arcane and Divine specifications to each other; so if you have Charisma-based Arcane, you can cast off Charisma for Divine. However, you have to take all 10 levels of Geomancer to get the ability to apply to 9th level spells...

Which isn't actually horrible in an Ur-Priest build, since generally you want some arcane casting in the stuff you take before Ur-Priest anyway. Something like the following:

Savage Bard 5/Ur-Priest 2/Geomancer 10/X 3

Should work. Your casting will always be a bit ahead of your Geomancer benefits, so you'll still want a decent Wis, and you'll want to avoid packing saving throws in your top level of spells. Still, this could be a pretty fun build. I'd focus on melee, using cleric buffs with Drift to mess people up with a pile of full-BAB natural attacks.

Maho-Tsukai
2011-02-18, 03:51 PM
My group never used the heroes of horror rules for taint so the DM stealing your character was never a factor in my games.(Though he could still go "screw you" in other ways if your taint got too high.) The rules I use for taint are these ones (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/campaigns/taint.htm) and the Tainted Sorcerer(in the same link) only gets half their taint to wis anyway so they don't need all that much wisdom. I'm not saying they can get by with like 8 but they don't need to put tons of points into wisdom like a wis-based caster would.

Also, if you want to be able to cast from the cleric list, be charisma based and you are lawful and/or you can always take the Rainbow Servant PrC.(Which can EASILY be re-fluffed to fit evil characters. I did it once, all I did was change the Coatal flavor to Chromatic Dragon flavor. Made the "good guy" abilites into evil inversions of themselves(though I kept the lawful powers untouched.) and made the lame, technocolor bird wings into awesome chromatic dragon wings.) Likewise there is the Favored Soul but since it has wis based DCs it's still heavily reliant on Wisdom unless your just focsuing purely on buffs/heals/melee/stuff without saves.

Keld Denar
2011-02-18, 04:36 PM
Savage Bard 5/Ur-Priest 2/Geomancer 10/X 3

The nice thing about this build? You can DMM Persist your bard spells. Using your Geomancer's ability to treat one list as the other, you could totally do it with your rebuke undead attempts gained from UP.

The Cat Goddess
2011-02-18, 04:43 PM
Wow...

And here I thought nobody would use Geomancer for a build other than "this is funny".

FMArthur
2011-02-18, 04:57 PM
Wow...

And here I thought nobody would use Geomancer for a build other than "this is funny".

I don't quite get this perception of Geomancer as a horrible trap. If I donate one level of my arcane caster spellcasting progression to Cleric or something, I can cast my arcane spells in armor, go completely Wis SAD if I want, get better hit dice, BAB and saves, and a wide variety of decent abilities out of Drift, like permanent extraordinary flight. It's not the best trade in the whole game but it isn't bad if you do it right. Are people trying to make Mystic Theurges out of the Geomancer class or something?

The Cat Goddess
2011-02-18, 05:01 PM
I don't quite get this perception of Geomancer as a horrible trap. If I donate one level of my arcane caster spellcasting progression to Cleric or something, I can cast my arcane spells in armor, go completely Wis SAD if I want, get better hit dice, BAB and saves, and a wide variety of decent abilities out of Drift, like permanent extraordinary flight. It's not the best trade in the whole game but it isn't bad if you do it right. Are people trying to make Mystic Theurges out of the Geomancer class or something?

I think that's it... that it doesn't raise both classes.

I think that if Mystic Theurge was modified to be similar to the way Ultimate Magus was built, or Arcane Hierophant, then it wouldn't be a trap.

Very few people (I believe) look at it the way you're indicating... especially given the prereq's.

Thurbane
2011-02-18, 05:34 PM
Old Blood, from the third party Bastards and Bloodlines, is a feat that lets you cast off ANY stat. That book's a bit broken, though.
Close, Lost Tradition (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10203238&postcount=2).

I still want to run a Dragonborn Mongrelfolk Sorcerer with this feat someday. :smallbiggrin:

FMArthur
2011-02-18, 05:44 PM
Close, Lost Tradition (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10203238&postcount=2).

I still want to run a Dragonborn Mongrelfolk Sorcerer with this feat someday. :smallbiggrin:

Oh wow; it looks like you can specify any spellcasting class, not just one you have presently.

faceroll
2011-02-18, 05:47 PM
Close, Lost Tradition (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10203238&postcount=2).

I still want to run a Dragonborn Mongrelfolk Sorcerer with this feat someday. :smallbiggrin:

Oh, thank you. Old Blood let's you count as ANY race for ANY and ALL purposes. Hello Illithid Savant....

Thurbane
2011-02-18, 05:56 PM
Oh wow; it looks like you can specify any spellcasting class, not just one you have presently.
It's a bit murky...it's a 1st level only feat, so there's a solid argument to say you have to choose a class you have when you take the feat...

Oh, thank you. Old Blood let's you count as ANY race for ANY and ALL purposes. Hello Illithid Savant....
Another broken feat from B&B - whod've thought it! :smalltongue:

FMArthur
2011-02-18, 05:59 PM
It's a bit murky...it's a 1st level only feat, so there's a solid argument to say you have to choose a class you have when you take the feat...

I really don't see why. I could totally see a Barbarian finally deciding to embrace his Lost Tradition after 8 levels to start taking Druid levels using his family's own unique teachings. It works fluff-wise, works by RAW, and isn't really much worse than its RAI (which is maybe different).