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Realms of Chaos
2011-02-19, 01:44 AM
The Field Medic
ďOpen-heart surgery inÖ Ďbout 5 seconds. I think that may be a new personal best.Ē
-Silas Grange, Field Medic

Alignment: Any
Hit Die: d8

Class Skills:
Balance, Bluff, Climb, Concentration, Craft, Diplomacy, Escape Artist, Heal, Hide, Intimidate, Jump, Knowledge (History), Knowledge (Local), Knowledge (Nature), Listen, Move Silently, Profession, Sense Motive, Spot, Survival, Swim, Tumble, Use Magic Device
Skill Points at 1st Level: (6 + Int modifier) ◊ 4
Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 6 + Int modifier


The Field Medic
{table="head"]Level|BAB|Fort|Ref|Will|Special |
AC Bonus|
Fast Movement|
Damage Reduction

1st|+0|+2|+2|+2|Surgical Precision (+1, +1d4) Tend Wounds (hit points)|
+1|
+0 ft.|
--

2nd|+1|+3|+3|+3|Bonus Feat, Prevention and Cure (2)|
+1|
+10 ft.|
--

3rd|+2|+3|+3|+3|Battlefield Inspiration I, Surgical Precision (+2, +2d4)|
+1|
+10 ft.|
1/-

4th|+3|+4|+4|+4|Frantic Medic I, Prevention and Cure (4)|
+2|
+10 ft.|
1/-

5th|+3|+4|+4|+4|Surgical Precision (+3, +3d4), Tend Wounds (ability damage)|
+2|
+20 ft.|
1/-

6th|+4|+5|+5|+5|Prevention and Cure (6), Share Expertise|
+2|
+20 ft.|
2/-

7th|+5|+5|+5|+5|Battlefield Inspiration II, Surgical Precision (+4, +4d4)|
+3|
+20 ft.|
2/-

8th|+6/+1|+6|+6|+6|Evasion, Prevention and Cure (8)|
+3|
+30 ft.|
2/-

9th|+6/+1|+6|+6|+6|Surgical Precision (+5, +5d4), Tend Wounds (ability drain)|
+3|
+30 ft.|
3/-

10th|+7/+2|+7|+7|+7|Prevention and Cure (10), Bonus Feat|
+4|
+30 ft.|
3/-

11th|+8/+3|+7|+7|+7|Battlefield Inspiration III, Surgical Precision (+6, +6d4)|
+4|
+40 ft.|
3/-

12th|+9/+4|+8|+8|+8|Frantic Medic II, Prevention and Cure (12)|
+4|
+40 ft.|
4/-

13th|+9/+4|+8|+8|+8|Surgical Precision (+7, +7d4), Tend Wounds (energy drain)|
+5|
+40 ft.|
4/-

14th|+10/+5|+9|+9|+9|Prevention and Cure (14), Share Expertise|
+5|
+50 ft.|
4/-

15th|+11/+6/+1|+9|+9|+9|Battlefield Inspiration IV, Surgical Precision (+8, +8d4)|
+5|
+50 ft.|
5/-

16th|+12/+7/+2|+10|+10|+10|Improved Evasion, Prevention and Cure (16)|
+6|
+50 ft.|
5/-

17th|+12/+7/+2|+10|+10|+10|Surgical Precision (+9, +9d4), Tend Wounds (death)|
+6|
+60 ft.|
5/-

18th|+13/+8/+3|+11|+11|+11|Prevention and Cure, Bonus Feat (18)|
+6|
+60 ft.|
6/-

19th|+14/+9/+4|+11|+11|+11|Battlefield Inspiration V, Medical Precision (+10, +10d4)|
+7|
+60 ft.|
6/-

20th|+15/+10/+5|+12|+12|+12|Frantic Medic III, Prevention and Cure (20) |
+7|
+70 ft.|
6/-[/table]

Armor and Weapon Proficiencies: A Field Medic possesses proficiency with all simple weapons and one martial weapon of their choice, along with light armor and shields (but not tower shields).

AC Bonus (Ex): A Field Medic is forced to cross busy battlefields regularly while avoiding the very same fates they hope to save others from. While wearing light armor or no armor, you add the indicated bonus to your AC, doubling it against attacks of opportunity provoked by your movement.

Tend Wounds (Ex): A Field Medic is best known for their ability to cure the wounds of others on the battlefield without the use of magic. With enough bandages, medicine, and know-how, even otherwise fatal injuries mean little to them. At the start of each day, you gain a pool of points equal to your class level x your ranks in heal x your Wisdom modifier that you can use to tend wounds. You may only tend the wounds of creatures within your reach (not counting reach granted through weaponry) and must possess your medicís kit in order to use this class feature.
At 1st level, you may only heal hit points, spending one point per hit point you restore. Alternately, you can stabilize an unconscious creature without spending any points at all. This ability does not harm undead creatures and in fact heals them, albeit for only half the normal amount. Constructs, however, are utterly unaffected.
Starting at 5th level, you may heal ability damage, spending 25 points per point of ability damage you restore.
Starting at 9th level, you may heal ability drain, spending 50 points per point of ability drain that you restore.
Starting at 13th level, you may heal negative levels, spending 100 points per negative level that you restore.
Starting at 17th level, you may restore a creature to life if they have died within 1 minute/class level, spending 200 points. The target is returned to life at 1 hit point and all ability scores reduced to 0 are restored to 1. The target loses no spells, levels, or constitution when revived in this way. The targetís body must be mostly intact when targeted by this ability.
Regardless of how this ability is used, it requires a standard action and can only target corporeal creatures. Any number of different uses for this ability can be used within a single application (such as healing one point of strength damage and 10 hit points for 35 points). Using this ability requires concentration and provokes attacks of opportunity.

Surgical Precision: Well-aware of the inner workings of the living body, a Combat Medic knows best how to take it apart. Starting at 1st level, you may make a Heal check against a targetís AC whenever you make a melee attack against or ranged attack from within 30 feet of the intended target. If the check succeeds, the attack roll gains a +1 bonus and the attack deals an extra 1d4 points of damage.
At each odd level after 1st, the attack bonus increases by +1 and the damage increases by 1d4. The bonus to attack rolls applies against all creatures but the extra damage only functions against creatures vulnerable to critical hits and does not function against creatures with cover or concealment from you. This damage may be applied to lethal and nonlethal attacks equally well. Though the attack bonus is added to critical confirmation rolls, the extra damage is not multiplied with a critical hit.
This ability counts as possessing the same number of dice of sneak attack for the purposes of meeting prerequisites and you may sacrifice a number of dice (and corresponding attack bonus) to use ambush feats.

Medicís Kit: Much as a wizard uses a spellbook, some of a medicís abilities relies on their possession of a medicís kit, a healerís kit of professional grade holding all of the curative supplies that the field medic trades for, finds, scavenges, steals, or otherwise acquires (always at a neglible cost to the medic). Much as it is assumed that a wizard works on their spellbook when not actively adventuring, it is generally assumed that field medics are always on the lookout for new potential materials and, barring extreme circumstances, is never at risk of running out. For a field medic and only for a field medic, a medicís kit acts as a healerís kit with unlimited uses and allows for the use of the medicís tend wounds and prevention AND cure class features. Despite its name, a medicís kit is not a specific container and may be maintained or started again without cost even if the kit is stolen or ruined.

Fast Movement (Ex): As field medics canít extend their medicines across battlefields like a clericís spells, it is of vital importance for them to build up their speed for incredible sprints across the battlefield. At 2nd level, you gain an enhancement bonus to your speed, as shown on the table above. You lose this extra speed while wearing medium or heavy armor or while carrying a medium or heavy load.

Bonus Feats: As a field medic adventures, they pick up a few tricks on the battlefield. At 2nd level and again at 10th level and 18th level, you gain a bonus fighter feat of your choice. You must meet the prerequisites of any feat selected in this way.

Prevention and Cure (Ex): Starting as soon as 2nd level, a Field Medic learns of a number of remedies, cure-alls, and preventative measures, letting them treat most negative conditions. Though many of these medicines use similar ingredients, itís not possible (at least early on) to keep every possible form of medicine at the ready at a given time. Each day, with one hour of work, you may make a number of doses of medicine up to the number given on the table above, selecting from the recipes below. You may create multiple doses of a single recipe in a given day. Leftover doses from one day do not carry over into the next as components are distilled and recycled to make new medicines.
Applying a recipe to a creature requires that you be able to touch them (requiring a touch attack if uncooperative) and a standard action. Each recipe possesses an instantaneous curative effect and a preventative effect that lasts for 1 hour.
If a condition possesses a duration and is reduced in severity, the less serious condition persists for the remainder of the duration. If a condition is gained continually through certain circumstances (such as being dazzled due to light sensitivity), curing a target only removes the condition for 1 round. You must possess access to your medicís kit to use this class feature.

Recipes:
Fear Relief:
Curative A frightened or panicked creature is simply shaken. A shaken creature is healed of their condition.
Preventative: The creature adds your class level as a bonus to saving throws against Fear effects and to opposed checks made against Intimidate checks for the medicineís duration.

Stomach Soother
Curative A nauseated creature is simply sickened. A sickened creature is healed of their condition.
Preventative: The creature adds your class level as a bonus to saving throws against effects that would nauseate or sicken them and to Constitution checks made to go on without food for the medicineís duration.

Rejuvenizer
Curative An exhausted creature is simply fatigued. A fatigued creature is healed of their condition.
Preventative: The creature adds your class level as a bonus to saving throws and Constitution checks made to avoid becoming exhausted or fatigued for the medicineís duration.

Muscle Relaxant
Curative A stunned or paralyzed creature is simply staggered. A staggered creature is healed of their condition.
Preventative: The creature adds your class level as a bonus to saving throws against effects that would paralyze, stun, or stagger them and to grapple checks and escape artist checks made to escape a grapple for the medicineís duration.

Sensory Restoration
Curative A creature who has lost one or more of their senses regains one such sense of your choice.
Preventative: The target adds your class level as a bonus to saving throws against any effects that would rob them of one or more of their senses and to saves against glamer and figment effects for the medicineís duration.

Antipsychotic
Curative A creature who is currently affected by a confusion or insanity effect or suffering from some other means of insanity is instantly cured and restored to sanity. Forms of insanity requiring a wish or miracle to cure (such as a Derroís racial insanity) canít be healed in this way.
Preventative: The target adds your class levels to saving throws against effects that create temporary or permanent insanity and against compulsion effects for the medicineís duration.

Cure-All
Curative A creature affected by one or more diseases with a save DC of 10 + your class level or less is healed of one such disease.
Preventative: The target adds your class level as a bonus to saving throws against disease for the medicineís duration.

Anti-Venom
Curative A creature affected by one or more poisons with a save DC of 10 + your class level or less is healed of one such poison.
Preventative: The target adds your class level as a bonus to saving throws against poison for the medicineís duration.

Curse-Be-Gone
Curative A creature affected by one or more effects that a remove curse effect could remove is healed of one such affect.
Preventative: The target adds your class level as a bonus to saving throws made against effects that a remove curse effect could remove and against death effects for the medicineís duration.

Damage Reduction (Ex): Although a Field Medic can heal wounds quite easily, most of these resources are reserved for allies by any means necessary. Starting at 3rd level, a Field medic gains damage reduction as noted on the table above.

Battlefield Inspiration (Ex): Out in the heat of battle, a field medic may find themselves unable to reach an allies who needs help. Even in such situations, however, a good speech, taunt, or shouted piece of advice can help their allies stay in one piece for a little bit longer. Starting at 3rd level, as a standard action, you can grant a number of allies (other than yourself) up to your class level + your Wisdom modifier a number of temporary hit points equal to your class level and one of the listed bonuses below (selected each time you use this ability) for a single round. All creatures to be affected must be able to see, hear, and understand you to gain the bonuses. Alternately, you may grant yourself the indicated bonuses as a standard action, targeting only you but requiring a purely mental action to activate.
At 7th level and every 4 levels afterwards, the number of temporary hit points granted increase by your class level and you may select an additional bonus to grant all affected allies. This ability can be used once per encounter at 3rd level and you gain one additional use per encounter every 4 levels afterwards. This effect does not stack with itself.

Bonuses:
Move! Move! Move! Each affected target may immediately move up to their speed in any direction that they could normally travel.

Watch for the Weak Point: You may immediately make a heal check against a single creature within your line of sight as if through your surgical precision class feature. If successful, the next affected target this round to make a successful attack against the target benefits from your surgical precision class feature as a field medic of your level (if the next person to hit the creature is you, you gain no additional benefit).

I Know Youíre Better Than That: All targets currently affected by a non-instantaneous magical effect due to a failed saving throw may roll a new saving throw against the same DC to end the effect prematurely.

One Big Push: All targets may add half of your class level (rounded down) to a single d20 roll made within the duration.

Coordination is Key: All targets automatically succeed on aid another checks, no target is considered flanked unless they all are, and any creature adjacent to two or more targets is considered flanked by them.

Pace Yourself: All targets gain additional temporary hit points equal to your class level. Unlike other bonuses, this may be selected multiple times.

Frantic Medic (Ex): The job of a field medic is never dull, dodging death with disturbing regularity as they run across the battlefield to mend fallen friends. With enough time and practice, the medic seems almost supernaturally fast. Starting at 4th level, you gain an extra move action or standard action each round that can only be used to move up to your speed or to activate your Tend Wounds class feature. You gain a second such action at 12th level and a third at 20th level.

Share Expertise (Ex): Starting at 6th level, you gain the ability to share some of your experience on the battlefield with others, giving them tactical advice and keeping them ready. You may select any fighter feat that you possess. All allies within 30 feet of you who can see, hear, and understand you gain the benefit of that feat (so long as they meet its prerequisites). All decisions that you made when selecting the feat (such as what weapon the weapon focus feat applies to) apply to allies gaining the feat as well. You may change which feat is granted as a swift action.
At 14th level, the range of this ability increases to 60 feet and you may grant two fighter feats instead of one (one of which may be used as a prerequisite for the other). You may reselect one or both feats as a swift action.

Evasion (Ex): Starting at 8th level, you can avoid even magical and unusual attacks with great agility. If you make a successful Reflex saving throw against an attack that normally deals half damage on a successful save, you instead take no damage. Evasion can only be used if you are wearing light armor or no armor. While helpless, you do not gain the benefit of evasion.

Improved Evasion (Ex): At 16th level, your ability to evade harm greatly improves. This ability works like evasion, except that while you still take no damage on a successful Reflex saving throw against attacks such as a dragonís breath weapon or a fireball, henceforth you only take half damage on a failed save. You do not gain the benefits of improved evasion while helpless.

arguskos
2011-02-19, 01:57 AM
Realms, on a reaaaaally brief glance (I'm terribly tired atm, and will be swamped until Sunday at the earliest), the issue I see here is the training ability.

The chassis (the BAB, saves, HD, skills/level, AC bonus, speed increase, and DR) is fine.

Surgical Precision is awesome and I totally love it.

Tend Wounds is a good healing method, though honestly, it might be low. I'm not sure. I'd need to run some combat math before I could say for certain if it's too low or now.

Toughen the Troops looked possibly broken. I'll really dig into it later, but that's my first stop for concerns.

Prevention AND Cure (is terribly named) but is awesome and I approve of it.

Battlefield Inspiration is also awesome as hell and I love it.

Frantic Medic also strikes me as a possible problem spot. Anything that breaks action economy so cleanly makes me wary, even if it's just for a class's class features. I can't say for sure it's trouble, but again, I'd need to fiddle around some. I'd look here as well for concerns.

Evasion/Imp. Evasion are fine.

Overall, I'm actually really excited by this. It's a great set of mechanics, and I'm likely going to steal ideas from here (Battlefield Inspiration, specifically) for a class I've got coming up later in Zaaman-Rul (the Warlord, specifically).

I'll come back to this in a few days and give more concrete help, I promise.

Ajadea
2011-02-19, 02:27 AM
Hey, calm down, RoC.

I think it looks pretty good. Not sure if the loads of weapon proficiencies or the full BAB are thematically appropriate or anywhere near necessary: between Surgical Precision and all the marshal-esque stuff you'd be doing, it doesn't seem like this guy has time for learning about ranseurs and kukris and all that sort of stuff, much less full attacking like some sort of warblade. Also, when you have sneak attack that gives you a bonus on attack rolls, you don't need it. You're not trying to become a better warrior than the swordsage. You're trying to make a non-magical healer-marshal class.

Tend Wounds almost certainly provokes an attack of opportunity. Perhaps you should add Concentration to the Field Medic's class skills? Also, capitilizing the 'and' in Prevention and Cure is wholly unnecessary and highy distracting.

Maybe it's just my weird need for a semblance of realism in the timing structure, but the way you have it, you're not performing open heart surgery in 5 seconds, you're doing it in like 3. At 1st level.

A 1st level human medic built on the elite array has 1*2*4=8 points of healing. That's better than a cleric, if you spend it all in one go. No one else can cast Maximized CLW at 1st level. How long does it take the medic to replenish this pool? Currently, it refills every time they heal someone.

Between flavor text and balance, particularly if you can nova all the healing in one round (remember, a cleric has to be 15th level to drop a 150-hp standard action heal, this guy can nova heal 280 HP at level 7 easy), and especially if there isn't a recharge, it seems like maybe a 1st level field medic should take a full-round action to use Tend Wounds, if not a full round (like Summon Monster).

Frantic Medic, then, would allow you to speed up the healing process to Standard, Move, and then finally Swift at 20th. Less action economy breakage, incidentally.

Hawk7915
2011-02-19, 06:13 AM
Post got eaten, grrrr. Anyhow, here's the short version:

Perfect:

Surgical Precision. Great idea and great way for the class to contribute beyond just healing.

Defensive Abilities: Evasion, all good saves, AC boost, DR X/-, and Fast Movement all feel very flavorful and very appropriate.

Needs Just a Little Bit of Clean-up or changes:
Tend Wounds: Should provoke an AoO for using it; Concentration check (with feat???) can ignore the AoO. Should be (Class level x Total Heal Modifier) healing per day.

Battlefield Inspiration: Does this ability grant everything you've selected all at once, or do you pick one of the bonuses you know to grant in addition to +Class Level Temporary HP? Need to clarify.

Base Attack Bonus: Should be 3/4 like a cleric or rogue, considering Surgical Strike adds to attack and the class is very SAD allowing it to really pump strength or dex as needed.

Proficiencies: Should just be simple weapons. You could consider medium armor if you really feel that losing martial weapons is too harsh of a nerf.

Prevent and Cure: Perhaps it already does this, but this ability ought to grant a few "medicines" per day (starting with 1 or 2, topping our at 10-12). They are prepared over 1 hour in the morning, and are one-shot use. A few more options if you wanted to add them would be cure mental ability damage/+2 to a mental ability, cure physical ability damage/+2 physical ability, and grant Fast Healing 1/Temporary HP.

Frantic Medic: This ability is brilliant but I'd like it more as a 19th or 20th level capstone.

Cut:
Toughen the Troops: This or Battlefield Inspiration has to go, and I think this is both more potentially broken, more complicated, and less interesting. +10 AC to all allies, 24 hour duration? I know Cheeze Wizards can do better, but it still seems like a lot. Also, again, do all the bonuses occur at once? Can I give allies +4 AC, +6 strength for 24 hours at level 18?

Considerations:
Skill List: You could consider a revamp: go up to 6/level, add Concentration, Knowledge (History, Architecture and Engineering, Nature, Nobility and Royalty, Local, Religion) and maybe Hide, Move Silently, and Use Magic Device to the class skill list. I'd probably drop them to a d6 hit die if so, but then again maybe not.

Bonus Feats: If you feel like the above nerfs are just too much. A select list of skill boosts, mobility feats, martial weapon proficiency, and some sneaky stuff.

Auras: Go with Marshal auras, probably just a progression of minor ones based off of Wisdom instead. Should be slightly more balanced than the current Toughen the Troops ability. I really don't think this is needed though.

Realms of Chaos
2011-02-19, 12:45 PM
arguskos: I also noticed that the field medic has a relatively low amount of healing (though it can get as much as 4000 points, a single casting of Mass Heal can heal 11,000 by CL 20 in optimal conditions). That said, this guy can deliver more concentrated healing than a cleric generally can, which may help to split the difference. If not, let me know what you think.

Regarding Toughen the troops, there was originally a limit to selecting a single option only twice (preventing things like +20 initiative or +10 Strength for the entire party). There'd still be large bonuses if I reinstated them but it might feel more reasonable (akin to a heroes' feast, maybe). Thoughts?

Prevention AND cure is a placeholder name more than anything else. I am more than open to alternate names

Feel Free to use Battlefield inspiration

Frantic Medic: hmmm... I knew that this one would be a bit troublesome so I took some time to really think about it. At its most abused, a dip in barbarian allows the field medic to pounce and then retreat or a normal field medic can double move forward, attack with a crossbow, and double move back beyond a creature's charging range. The first one provokes AoOs more likely than not and the second one is only possible at levels where most things have ranged attacks or teleport. It's primary purpose is to allow the field medic to heal-move-heal-move-heal/attack in a single turn, providing healing over a large group much like a cleric's mass healing spells. I honestly can't think of any other way to accomplish this but if you can think of such a way or can think up of some other possible limitations, let me know. :smallsigh:

Ajadea: Thank you. I was really sleep-deprived last night but I've had some sleep and calmed down.

Actually, the high BAB and Martial weapons were a last minute addition that I was pretty unsure about (though I think I'll still grant prof with a single martial weapon to represent some martial training unless you think it unwise).

Don't know why tend wounds doesn't provoke AoO. I meant to put that in at some point but... okay, it's going in. I honestly don't know what DC I'd set to "heal defensively" as we're not dealing with spell levels and a static DC would be too easy.

You know what? I'm going to decapitalize that AND right away.

Also, I can't believe that I forgot to put a refresh mechanic into tend wounds. Nice catch there.

As for increasing the action time and having frantic medic reduce it... that might work. It would mean limiting yourself to two heals a round but it's definitely worth considering...
Edit: just realized that you'd be stuck healing 1 person until you reach 20th level. Not sure how promising this sounds. :smallconfused:

Hawk7915:
Tend wounds: will provoke AoO for sure. I'll add in a feat letting you avoid it via concentration as soon as someone can suggest a good DC as that seems to be a bit of a stumper (15 + Target's HD may work but it seems rather arbitrary :smallconfused:). As stated above, this guy actually gets a lot less healing than a cleric over all but makes up for it with more concentrated healing. If I reduce it to level x heal modifier, this guy's supply will be cut to under 1/4 on average.

Battlefield Inspiration: Not quite sure what the confusion is here. :smallconfused:


...and one of the listed bonuses below (selected at the time of use)...

It seems pretty clear that you select what bonuses you give each time you use the ability unless I'm mistaking your problem with the ability. Could you please clarify what the problem is again?

BAB/Proficiencies: will be changed, as listed above.

Prevent and Cure: I do suppose that your suggestion seems a bit more reasonable than getting unlimited cures to a few afflictions each day. I'll change this but I'll keep the original in case others liked it the way it was. As for your suggestions for new medicines, I've been trying to prevent overlap between this and tend wounds.
Edit: I made a few changes. I doubled your recommended dosage as having only 10-12 would make it hard to use the medicines as both preventative and curative measures. Also, each dose of medicine now both cures and prevents and the prevention effects only last for 1 hour rather than 6 to keep things from going crazy.


Frantic Medic: Eh... everyone seems to have different ideas of what should happen to this thing. I'm going to wait for some degree of consensus before I change it, though my rationale for the original version is up above.

Toughen the Troops: Up above I suggested the idea of limiting a single option to be taken no more than twice, allowing for things like +4 AC/+4 Str/+10 ft. speed rather than really insane stuff. The fact that he can only supply one such buff at a time and can't change it at a whim seems somewhat balanced to my eyes unless you can point out some cheese (it's not that I doubt that there is cheese but rather that I can't see any at the moment). It's basically a 24 hour buff roughly equivalent to a 6th/7th level spell.

Skill List: I think that I will up the skills and add most of those (seeing as most of those were likely cantidates) except for the knowledge skills (except local), which seem a tad bit off. :smallconfused:

Bonus Feats: This looks to be an excellent replacement for Toughen the troops if the suggesting limiting factors are insufficient.

The Core Problem (Warning: includes homebrew philosophy):
Now that I'm more awake and stable, I can finally shed some light on what I think went horribly, horribly wrong with this class.

Well, as soon as I change the BAB to average, it will be plainly obvious (if it isn't already) that this thing has the basic chassis of the Monk. This was entirely unintentional but the HD, Skills, Saving throws, (original plan for) BAB, Speed, AC bonus, and even Evasion/Improved Evasion all seemed to make sense for this class while I was making it. The downside to these paralels is that it makes the monk directly comparable to a the field medic.

I am not bragging when I say that the field medic is more mechanically powerful than the monk. The Field Medic has an established role that it performs fairly well, can engage in combat with more sucess, uses its abilities synergistically, has less MAD, and so forth. Being better than the monk isn't anything new, obviously. The monk is tier 5 and there are four tiers of things that are all more useful/versatile than the monk. What is new, however, is having a class that is directly superior. One of the reasons why so many threads are formed asking why monks are so hated is that monk fans can point at it and say, "well, the monk has __________". There are almost no classes directly overshadowed by others and this is one of them.

This isn't a problem in and of itself, however. Rogues are Strictly better than ninjas and my old fighter class (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=140278) overshadows quite a few other martial classes (including the monk). In these situations, there are three "reasonable" excuses for overshadowing that I've seen:
1. The powerful class is a revision of the less powerful class (such as my fighter compared with the core fighter)
2. The Archetypes of the weaker class can be represented in the stronger class without much discrepency (a rogue, for example, can easily be a "ninja" with little to no adjucation).
3. There is such a gulf of power between the stronger and weaker classes that there is little concern of both being present at the same gaming table (One of my favorite examples is The Cerebral Stalker (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=139817), an excellently designed class but one that overshadows the rogue and has a really hard time adopting the archetype of mundane thug).

My field medic doesn't do any of these. It is not a monk fix, it can't be used to represent monkishness without extreme tweaks, and it's only a tier 4 class, one tier above the monk itself. As a result, any campaign including a field medic can't also include a monkish class without that player being forced to play a class blatantly and directly weaker than that of another character. This is a pretty major design flaw and I must confess that I don't know how to fix it. :smallsigh:

Any Advice?
Tl;Dr: This class can't exist alongside a monkish character as it is directly better than the monk in mechanical terms. Killing possible archetypes for other players is not a good thing from a design standpoint.

Hawk7915
2011-02-19, 02:07 PM
I'll add more comments later perhaps, but a few clarifications.

1) When I said "heal modifier", I meant "Total Heal Modifier, including ranks, synergy, racial bonuses, competence bonuses, and wisdom modifier". It was bugging me that "Skill Focus: Heal" made the Field Medic slightly better at using Surgical Precision, but didn't actually add to his healing per day, and that was my suggested fix.

2) On knowledge skills...first, the rules are a bit fuzzy on how one goes about identifying diseases and poisons. Heal? Spellcraft? Knowledge: Nature? Craft? Profession? I was trying to give them access to whatever skills they might need if a DM decides that heal checks won't cut it. Know: History and Know: Architecture are traditionally used for knowledge of military tactics and siege engines; things that a Battlefield Healer type character might know about. Know: Religion and Know: Arcana were a total stretch to let them be party scholars and Knowledge Devotion freaks :smalltongue:. So ignore those.

3) On the Monk issue...I'm not sure what to tell you. Avoiding giving the Field Medic bonus feats might ensure that the class "feels" less Monk-y, since with them they could easy pick up stuff like Intuitive Attack (total SAD), Power Attack, and other feats to become awesome soldiers. But honestly I feel that the Field Medic's job is different enough that the two won't feel like they're competing. The Monk even still has class features that this class doesn't. The Monk gets Flurry, a huge unarmed damage boost, bonus feats, spell resistance, slow falling, etc, etc.

Worrying about it is like worrying about how Crusader completely replaces Paladin (which it does). I don't think people complained that Favored Soul (d8 HD, full caster, all good saves, 3/4 BAB) ruined their ability to play Monk, because people that play Monk are often either dipping for feats or really committed to the name. You just can't balance around the most defective base class in core. Furthermore, in any game where you are allowing this class, you probably should be homebrewing some sort of Monk fix. Even going for Pathfinder Monk immediately gives the monk some abilities (full BAB flurry, Ki pool allowing for bonus attacks, +20 Jump checks, huge AC boosts, etc) that make him once again a special and unique snowflake.

Long story short: I don't see it as an issue, but if you are really worried then do not give the Field Medic bonus feats.

Dead_Jester
2011-02-19, 02:07 PM
This class isn't competing with the monk, as it doesn't fit the same archetype, and doesn't actively compete in the same slot.

Honestly, I think the community as a whole has to let the dead horse monk die, and move on. From day 1, the WotC idea for a monk archetype was flawed, and trying to not overshadow it is meaningless. The swordsage and the psywar already do anything a monk could, should and might want to do, all with more style and a more unified fluff.

If this class is strictly better than the monk, than so be it. An erudite is strictly better than a psion, and a healer is strictly inferior to a cleric (it's actually way inferior to this class, but hell, it's a caster that only does spontaneous heals when the cleric already did that and much more).

If someone must absolutely play a monk, than one would be doing him (and the entire group, Dm included) a favor by having him play a mechanically more suitable class with slight refluffs.[/rant]

Realms of Chaos
2011-02-19, 02:43 PM
1) When I said "heal modifier", I meant "Total Heal Modifier, including ranks, synergy, racial bonuses, competence bonuses, and wisdom modifier". It was bugging me that "Skill Focus: Heal" made the Field Medic slightly better at using Surgical Precision, but didn't actually add to his healing per day, and that was my suggested fix.

I knew completely what you were talking about. The problem is that 23 x 20 x 10 (the current system) = 4,600 points.
Meanwhile, 20 x 50 (your suggested system) = 1,000 points, only 1/4 as many.



2) On knowledge skills...first, the rules are a bit fuzzy on how one goes about identifying diseases and poisons. Heal? Spellcraft? Knowledge: Nature? Craft? Profession? I was trying to give them access to whatever skills they might need if a DM decides that heal checks won't cut it. Know: History and Know: Architecture are traditionally used for knowledge of military tactics and siege engines; things that a Battlefield Healer type character might know about. Know: Religion and Know: Arcana were a total stretch to let them be party scholars and Knowledge Devotion freaks :smalltongue:. So ignore those.

I can see a case for nature and history there so I guess I'll throw those in as well. :smallamused:



3) On the Monk issue...I'm not sure what to tell you. Avoiding giving the Field Medic bonus feats might ensure that the class "feels" less Monk-y, since with them they could easy pick up stuff like Intuitive Attack (total SAD), Power Attack, and other feats to become awesome soldiers. But honestly I feel that the Field Medic's job is different enough that the two won't feel like they're competing. The Monk even still has class features that this class doesn't. The Monk gets Flurry, a huge unarmed damage boost, bonus feats, spell resistance, slow falling, etc, etc.

Worrying about it is like worrying about how Crusader completely replaces Paladin (which it does). I don't think people complained that Favored Soul (d8 HD, full caster, all good saves, 3/4 BAB) ruined their ability to play Monk, because people that play Monk are often either dipping for feats or really committed to the name. You just can't balance around the most defective base class in core. Furthermore, in any game where you are allowing this class, you probably should be homebrewing some sort of Monk fix. Even going for Pathfinder Monk immediately gives the monk some abilities (full BAB flurry, Ki pool allowing for bonus attacks, +20 Jump checks, huge AC boosts, etc) that make him once again a special and unique snowflake.

The crusader replacing the paladin is a bit different as the two classes occupy the same "thematic space". Any archetype that you could express through paladins (and then some) could be expressed through crusader's just as well. If crusaders had been fluffed or slightly altered to make them incapable of occupying that "thematic space", the very concept of being paladinish would be linked to directly inferior mechanics and there would be a rather much larget problem (at least in my opinion).

I know that monks are bad and becuase nobody else really uses unarmed attacks, the concept of being a martial artist has been nearly eliminated from high tier games. I accept this willingly but I didn't want to endanger the monk's "thematic space" even more through my homebrew.

Even so, thanks for reminding me that monks still do have lots of things that this class doesn't (and even moreso for reminding me about the pathfinder monk). Thanks for that, really.

I think that I'm ready to change the thread title and remove the opening disclaimer. :smallsmile:

arguskos
2011-02-22, 06:06 PM
Hey, look! I promised a more in-depth response, and so, here it be! Sorry I'm late, had a speech to write/rehearse and some other class work and family and some other stuff too. :smallsigh:

But, I'm here now to actually review somewhat properly. Also, note that I'm reaaaaally considering stealing this flat-out for my games at the moment. I like it a great deal.


Tend Wounds (Ex): A Field Medic is best known for their ability to cure the wounds of others on the battlefield without the use of magic. With enough bandages, medicine, and know-how, even otherwise fatal injuries mean little to them. At the start of each day, you gain a pool of points equal to your class level x your ranks in heal x your Wisdom modifier that you can use to tend wounds. You may only tend the wounds of creatures within your reach and must possess your medicís kit in order to use this class feature.
Within your reach makes me curious: did you mean natural reach or just reach? If the latter, does that mean I can Tend Wounds in a 15-ft radius via Awl Pike or Whip? If so, that's kinda awesome and somewhat negates the need for Frantic Medic.


At 1st level, you may only heal hit points, spending one point per hit point you restore. Alternately, you can stabilize an unconscious creature without spending any points at all. This ability does not harm undead creatures and in fact heals them, albeit for only half the normal amount. Constructs, however, are utterly unaffected.
Coolio.


Starting at 5th level, you may heal ability damage, spending 25 points per point of ability damage you restore.
Starting at 9th level, you may heal ability drain, spending 50 points per point of ability drain that you restore.
Starting at 13th level, you may heal negative levels, spending 100 points per negative level that you restore.
Incredibly coolio.


Starting at 17th level, you may restore a creature to life if they have died within 1 minute/class level, spending 200 points. The target is returned to life at 1 hit point and all ability scores reduced to 0 are restored to 1. The target loses no spells, levels, or constitution when revived in this way. The targetís body must be mostly intact when targeted by this ability.
Regardless of how this ability is used, it requires a standard action and can only target corporeal creatures. Any number of different uses for this ability can be used within a single application (such as healing one point of strength damage and 10 hit points for 35 points). Using this ability requires concentration and provokes attacks of opportunity.
Also, incredibly cooliorama.

Tend Wounds does strike me as being low on points. For instance, at level 9 with a Wisdom of, say, 20 (you're not pumping it nearly as high as, say, a cleric), you can heal 540 points a day. That's pretty good, but given that you might need to burn 50+ points a *round*, that's around 11 rounds of healing, not counting stat damage/drain. Given that the average combat is 3-5 rounds and you have on average 4 combats a day, you're going to run out of healing somewhat faster than most people might like (the lowest rounds/day possible is 12, and you're out of healing in that area, imagine a 20 round day o.O). However, this is something I'd really have to play with personally to confirm and something that relies so very much on player style that it can't be quantified well.


Surgical Precision: Well-aware of the inner workings of the living body, a Combat Medic knows best how to take it apart. Starting at 1st level, you may make a Heal check against a targetís AC whenever you make a melee attack against or ranged attack from within 30 feet of the intended target. If the check succeeds, the attack roll gains a +1 bonus and the attack deals an extra 1d4 points of damage.
At each odd level after 1st, the attack bonus increases by +1 and the damage increases by 1d4. The bonus to attack rolls applies against all creatures but the extra damage only functions against creatures vulnerable to critical hits and does not function against creatures with cover or concealment from you. This damage may be applied to lethal and nonlethal attacks equally well. Though the attack bonus is added to critical confirmation rolls, the extra damage is not multiplied with a critical hit.
This ability counts as possessing the same number of dice of sneak attack for the purposes of meeting prerequisites and you may sacrifice a number of dice (and corresponding attack bonus) to use ambush feats.
Looks good. Medics have to know how to stab people too, cause so much of being an adventurer involves stabbing people and taking their stuff.


Prevention and Cure (Ex): Starting as soon as 2nd level, a Field Medic learns of a number of remedies, cure-alls, and preventative measures, letting them treat most negative conditions. Though many of these medicines use similar ingredients, itís not possible (at least early on) to keep every possible form of medicine at the ready at a given time. Each day, with one hour of work, you may make a number of doses of medicine up to the number given on the table above, selecting from the recipes below. You may create multiple doses of a single recipe in a given day. Leftover doses from one day do not carry over into the next as components are distilled and recycled to make new medicines.
Applying a recipe to a creature requires that you be able to touch them (requiring a touch attack if uncooperative) and a standard action. Each recipe possesses an instantaneous curative effect and a preventative effect that lasts for 1 hour.
If a condition possesses a duration and is reduced in severity, the less serious condition persists for the remainder of the duration. If a condition is gained continually through certain circumstances (such as being dazzled due to light sensitivity), curing a target only removes the condition for 1 round. You must possess access to your medicís kit to use this class feature.
Ok, so, I'm actually slightly confused. Does the application of a recipe give you BOTH effects, or just one? It's not actually stated. I'm assuming, based on wording and some educating guessing, that you actually do get both.

Also, for a name, I suggest "An Apple A Day". :smallcool:


Mental Relaxant
Curative A dazed or fascinated creatures is simply dazzled. A dazzled creature is healed of their condition.
Preventative: The creature adds your class level as a bonus to saving throws against effects that would fascinate, daze, or dazzle them or that would put them to sleep/render them comatose for the medicineís duration.
Dislike this one. Daze is REALLY powerful and is used as a balancing mechanic in several places. Two levels of Field Medic can cure Celerity, which seems bad. I'd remove the daze cure, personally.


Curse-Be-Gone
Curative A creature affected by one or more effects that a remove curse effect could remove is healed of one such affect.
Preventative: The target adds your class level as a bonus to saving throws made against effects that a remove curse effect could remove and against death effects for the medicineís duration.
What's the fluff on an Ex recipe defeating a magical curse? I don't mind really, but I'm just curious.


Toughen the Troops (Ex): Although a Field Medic does most of their work out on the battlefields, they also learn how to toughen up the troops that they have to protect, hopefully preventing them from needing much healing at all. Starting at 2nd level, each day, with one hour of work, you can train a number of willing creatures up your class level + your Wisdom modifier. To gain benefits from this training, a creature must be willing, living, and capable of seeing, hearing, and understanding you. Furthermore, such a creature must have received 8 hours of sleep (or rest) within the past day. Creatures with HD greater than your class level + your Wisdom modifier gain no benefit from your attempts to train them. Alternately, you may grant yourself the benefits of training, although you cannot train both yourself and others in a single day.
At 2nd level, you may select one form of training each day from those listed below. Every 4 levels afterwards, you may make another selection. Unless stated otherwise, all forms of training have a duration of 24 hours and can be selected once or twice, stacking with themselves.

Forms of Training:

Evasion Drills: All creatures undergoing training gain a +2 dodge bonus to AC.

Intense Training: All creatures undergoing training gain a +2 bonus to a single physical ability score of your choice (which must be the same for all participants).

Readiness For Battle: All creatures undergoing training gain a +4 bonus to initiative rolls, Spot checks, and Listen checks.

Physical Workout: All creatures undergoing training gain a +2 bonus to Constitution-, Dexterity- and Strength-based skill checks and ability check.

Running Laps: All creatures undergoing training increase their speed for all forms of movement by +10 feet.


Building Endurance: All creatures undergoing this training stabilize automatically, die at Ė10 Ė Field Medic level hit points, and take half damage from sources of nonlethal damage. Unlike other options, you may only select this training once.

Stand Your Ground: All creatures undergoing this training gain a +2 bonus to a single form of saving throw of your choice (which must be the same for all participants). When selecting this training multiple times, you can either selecting the same saving throw or selecting a new one each time.

Combat Simulation: All creatures undergoing this training gain a +1 bonus to either melee or ranged attacks and damage rolls. Martial Initiators undergoing this training also use maneuvers at +1 initiator level. Each time this training is selected, you must choose whether to give the bonus to melee or ranged attacks.

Battlecasting: All creatures undergoing this training gain a +4 bonus on Concentration checks made to cast defensively and gain a +2 bonus to spell penetration rolls. Arcane casters undergoing this training ignore up 10% arcane spell failure from armor that they wear.

Battlefield Tactics: All creatures undergoing this training gain the benefits of a single bonus fighter feat of your choice that all such creatures meet the prerequisites for. Unlike other options, this training is doubly complicated and effectively takes up two selections (thus becoming available at 6th level at the earliest).
I'd just axe this. The power issues are... yeah. They're pretty bad. The abuse potential is large, and I really don't think it fits for the Field Medic to suddenly go all "drill sergeant" on other people.


Battlefield Inspiration (Ex): Out in the heat of battle, a field medic may find themselves unable to reach an allies who needs help. Even in such situations, however, a good speech, taunt, or shouted piece of advice can help their allies stay in one piece for a little bit longer. Starting at 3rd level, as a standard action, you can grant a number of allies (other than yourself) up to your class level + your Wisdom modifier a number of temporary hit points equal to your class level and one of the listed bonuses below (selected each time you use this ability) for a single round. All creatures to be affected must be able to see, hear, and understand you to gain the bonuses. Alternately, you may grant yourself the indicated bonuses as a standard action, targeting only you but requiring a purely mental action to activate.
At 7th level and every 4 levels afterwards, the number of temporary hit points granted increase by your class level and you may select an additional bonus to grant all affected allies. This ability can be used once per encounter at 3rd level and you gain one additional use per encounter every 4 levels afterwards. This effect does not stack with itself.

Bonuses:
Move! Move! Move! Each affected target may immediately move up to their speed in any direction that they could normally travel.

Watch for the Weak Point: You may immediately make a heal check against a single creature within your line of sight as if through your surgical precision class feature. If successful, the next affected target this round to make a successful attack against the target benefits from your surgical precision class feature as a field medic of your level (if the next person to hit the creature is you, you gain no additional benefit).

I Know Youíre Better Than That: All targets currently affected by a non-instantaneous magical effect due to a failed saving throw may roll a new saving throw against the same DC to end the effect prematurely.

One Big Push: All targets may add half of your class level (rounded down) to a single d20 roll made within the duration.

Coordination is Key: All targets automatically succeed on aid another checks, no target is considered flanked unless they all are, and any creature adjacent to two or more targets is considered flanked by them.

Pace Yourself: All targets gain additional temporary hit points equal to your class level. Unlike other bonuses, this may be selected multiple times.
On the other hand, I really like Battlefield Inspiration. This is far better than Marshal's auras at doing the same thing (I'll discuss this below, actually) and is a balanced mechanic. I approve, I do.


Frantic Medic (Ex): The job of a field medic is never dull, dodging death with disturbing regularity as they run across the battlefield to mend fallen friends. With enough time and practice, the medic seems almost supernaturally fast. Starting at 4th level, you gain an extra move action or standard action each round that can only be used to move up to your speed or to activate a field medic class feature. You gain a second such action at 12th level and a third at 20th level.
And here we have the problem child. Frantic Medic permits stupidity, and I dislike stupidity. If you want it (and I do like the mental image you mentioned later in the thread), then change it to "you gain an extra move action or standard action each round that can only be used to move up to your speed or to Tend Wounds". This way, you get the feel you wanted and keep balance well in hand. Now, the medic can be all "oh, you're dying? Nah, 'sall good brah" all the time.


The Core Problem (Warning: includes homebrew philosophy):
Now that I'm more awake and stable, I can finally shed some light on what I think went horribly, horribly wrong with this class.

Well, as soon as I change the BAB to average, it will be plainly obvious (if it isn't already) that this thing has the basic chassis of the Monk. This was entirely unintentional but the HD, Skills, Saving throws, (original plan for) BAB, Speed, AC bonus, and even Evasion/Improved Evasion all seemed to make sense for this class while I was making it. The downside to these paralels is that it makes the monk directly comparable to a the field medic.

I am not bragging when I say that the field medic is more mechanically powerful than the monk. The Field Medic has an established role that it performs fairly well, can engage in combat with more sucess, uses its abilities synergistically, has less MAD, and so forth. Being better than the monk isn't anything new, obviously. The monk is tier 5 and there are four tiers of things that are all more useful/versatile than the monk. What is new, however, is having a class that is directly superior. One of the reasons why so many threads are formed asking why monks are so hated is that monk fans can point at it and say, "well, the monk has __________". There are almost no classes directly overshadowed by others and this is one of them.

This isn't a problem in and of itself, however. Rogues are Strictly better than ninjas and my old fighter class (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=140278) overshadows quite a few other martial classes (including the monk). In these situations, there are three "reasonable" excuses for overshadowing that I've seen:
1. The powerful class is a revision of the less powerful class (such as my fighter compared with the core fighter)
2. The Archetypes of the weaker class can be represented in the stronger class without much discrepency (a rogue, for example, can easily be a "ninja" with little to no adjucation).
3. There is such a gulf of power between the stronger and weaker classes that there is little concern of both being present at the same gaming table (One of my favorite examples is The Cerebral Stalker (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=139817), an excellently designed class but one that overshadows the rogue and has a really hard time adopting the archetype of mundane thug).

My field medic doesn't do any of these. It is not a monk fix, it can't be used to represent monkishness without extreme tweaks, and it's only a tier 4 class, one tier above the monk itself. As a result, any campaign including a field medic can't also include a monkish class without that player being forced to play a class blatantly and directly weaker than that of another character. This is a pretty major design flaw and I must confess that I don't know how to fix it. :smallsigh:

Any Advice?
Actually, I feel like you have the right idea, but the wrong comparison. This is far closer to the Marshal in design-space than the Monk.

Marshal: Inspirational battlefield commander and leader. Is a skilled martialist.
Monk: Unarmored martial artists who jumps around punching people.

Field Medic: Inspirational battlefield healer. Is a moderately decent martialist.

I'm seeing more in common with the Marshal than the Monk. Perhaps, adding a bit more leader-y stuff and calling this a functional Marshal replacement is in order? That way, no design space is being shoe-horned out.

Also, comparing anything to the Monk is fundamentally unfair, since the Monk sucks and can be overridden by anything at all. :smallsigh:

Just my 2cp though. Overall, I stand by my statement that it's pretty good looking. With your permission, when it's finished, I'd like to include it in Zaaman-Rul.

Realms of Chaos
2011-02-22, 07:41 PM
Hey, look! I promised a more in-depth response, and so, here it be! Sorry I'm late, had a speech to write/rehearse and some other class work and family and some other stuff too. :smallsigh:

But, I'm here now to actually review somewhat properly. Also, note that I'm reaaaaally considering stealing this flat-out for my games at the moment. I like it a great deal.

I had nearly forgotten that promise but boy am I glad that you followed through with it.



Within your reach makes me curious: did you mean natural reach or just reach? If the latter, does that mean I can Tend Wounds in a 15-ft radius via Awl Pike or Whip? If so, that's kinda awesome and somewhat negates the need for Frantic Medic.

As much as bandaging someone up with the end of your whip is awesome, that it not what was intended. Hopefully things are a bit more clear now.


Tend Wounds does strike me as being low on points. For instance, at level 9 with a Wisdom of, say, 20 (you're not pumping it nearly as high as, say, a cleric), you can heal 540 points a day. That's pretty good, but given that you might need to burn 50+ points a *round*, that's around 11 rounds of healing, not counting stat damage/drain. Given that the average combat is 3-5 rounds and you have on average 4 combats a day, you're going to run out of healing somewhat faster than most people might like (the lowest rounds/day possible is 12, and you're out of healing in that area, imagine a 20 round day o.O). However, this is something I'd really have to play with personally to confirm and something that relies so very much on player style that it can't be quantified well.

I'm not quite so sure about that. At 9th level, if everyone in your party has 20 Con and everyone other than you uses d12s as HD, you'd still have more than enough to heal everyone from -9 to full health at least once. This guy doesn't heal as much as a cleric, I'll admit, but I'm not so sure that it is "deficient". :smallconfused:


Ok, so, I'm actually slightly confused. Does the application of a recipe give you BOTH effects, or just one? It's not actually stated. I'm assuming, based on wording and some educating guessing, that you actually do get both.

Also, for a name, I suggest "An Apple A Day". :smallcool:

The recipe gives both. Also, the alternate name is neat... I'll have to consider it for awhile.


Dislike this one. Daze is REALLY powerful and is used as a balancing mechanic in several places. Two levels of Field Medic can cure Celerity, which seems bad. I'd remove the daze cure, personally.

It has been removed.


What's the fluff on an Ex recipe defeating a magical curse? I don't mind really, but I'm just curious.

Having mundane herbs/plants interract with the supernatural isn't all that unnatural in D&D. Think about how vampires can't approach garlic or how lycanthropes are healed by wolfsbane. The way I figure it, the field medic has devised pseudo-alchemic herbic infusions designed to handle any curse.



I'd just axe this. The power issues are... yeah. They're pretty bad. The abuse potential is large, and I really don't think it fits for the Field Medic to suddenly go all "drill sergeant" on other people.

Axed, though I'll leave the advancement table alone until I find something to take its place (I am a man who values continuous patterns for some reason). Perhaps bonus feats as suggested earlier on.

Any suggestions?



On the other hand, I really like Battlefield Inspiration. This is far better than Marshal's auras at doing the same thing (I'll discuss this below, actually) and is a balanced mechanic. I approve, I do.

Thank you.


And here we have the problem child. Frantic Medic permits stupidity, and I dislike stupidity. If you want it (and I do like the mental image you mentioned later in the thread), then change it to "you gain an extra move action or standard action each round that can only be used to move up to your speed or to Tend Wounds". This way, you get the feel you wanted and keep balance well in hand. Now, the medic can be all "oh, you're dying? Nah, 'sall good brah" all the time.

Altered.



Actually, I feel like you have the right idea, but the wrong comparison. This is far closer to the Marshal in design-space than the Monk.

Marshal: Inspirational battlefield commander and leader. Is a skilled martialist.
Monk: Unarmored martial artists who jumps around punching people.

Field Medic: Inspirational battlefield healer. Is a moderately decent martialist.

I'm seeing more in common with the Marshal than the Monk. Perhaps, adding a bit more leader-y stuff and calling this a functional Marshal replacement is in order? That way, no design space is being shoe-horned out.

Also, comparing anything to the Monk is fundamentally unfair, since the Monk sucks and can be overridden by anything at all. :smallsigh:

Oh, now I see how it is. First you tell me to take out the boot camp class feature and then you tell me to add in more leader-ish stuff. :smalltongue:

On a more serious note, the lack of toughen the troops means that there are 5 levels opened up to put in more leader-ish abilities. Do you have any suggestions?


Just my 2cp though. Overall, I stand by my statement that it's pretty good looking. With your permission, when it's finished, I'd like to include it in Zaaman-Rul.

Permission granted.

arguskos
2011-02-22, 11:45 PM
I had nearly forgotten that promise but boy am I glad that you followed through with it.
Again, sorry for the delay. Life and whatnot.


As much as bandaging someone up with the end of your whip is awesome, that it not what was intended. Hopefully things are a bit more clear now.
I was actually envisioning a whip-dagger surgery at 15 paces. :smallbiggrin:


I'm not quite so sure about that. At 9th level, if everyone in your party has 20 Con and everyone other than you uses d12s as HD, you'd still have more than enough to heal everyone from -9 to full health at least once. This guy doesn't heal as much as a cleric, I'll admit, but I'm not so sure that it is "deficient". :smallconfused:
English major, I'm addicted to using more visual words than necessary. I dunno. Like I said, I'd have to play with it to really see if it's light or not. My gut says yes, and I tend to listen to it, but it's not always right.


The recipe gives both. Also, the alternate name is neat... I'll have to consider it for awhile.
Ah. Interesting. The alternate name, by the way, is from the "an apple a day keeps the doctor away" saying, for those reading that don't know the joke. :smallwink:


Having mundane herbs/plants interract with the supernatural isn't all that unnatural in D&D. Think about how vampires can't approach garlic or how lycanthropes are healed by wolfsbane. The way I figure it, the field medic has devised pseudo-alchemic herbic infusions designed to handle any curse.
Ah. I was merely curious.


Axed, though I'll leave the advancement table alone until I find something to take its place (I am a man who values continuous patterns for some reason). Perhaps bonus feats as suggested earlier on.
I like patterns too. I tend to make my classes in groups of 4 or 5, personally. That's just me though.


Any suggestions?
Bonus feats might be good. The list might be sticky to figure out though. Perhaps some sort of healing into damage ability? Like, if the target has received healing in the last X rounds, you can strip it away, or something like that. It's a random rough idea.


Oh, now I see how it is. First you tell me to take out the boot camp class feature and then you tell me to add in more leader-ish stuff. :smalltongue:
Sure is! :smalltongue:


On a more serious note, the lack of toughen the troops means that there are 5 levels opened up to put in more leader-ish abilities. Do you have any suggestions?
Marshal auras were mentioned somewhere. The aura concept is a good place to start, IMO.


Permission granted.
Glorious! Thanks! When this is somewhere you call "done" (or close enough), I'll officially include it (I'll have to change one small thing for the setting though, if that's ok).

blackmage
2011-02-23, 12:52 AM
Hmm, I think I may see a problem. What is this class weak against? As is, I think it has every defensive base completely covered. It's HP is decent, and it can heal itself for lots. It has all good saves, evasion for Reflex, and builds will usually have a high Wisdom so he will make most of his saves against spells. Poisons and other fort-based effects have a better chance of getting through, but he also has a class feature to remove them. It has good land mobility, though I guess he can't fly so there's that. It can wear light armor, plus gets a significant AC bonus and DR at a better rate than any other class I know of. If I was trying to take down a Field Medic...I guess flying acid-spitting monsters would work, but if he has a bow he might kill them before they kill him.

I don't know if this is a design problem or not, I'm still new at design philosophy, but something about all that defense is Just Bugging Me.

So, my suggestion is: another defensive ability! Mettle seems like a good thematic fit, he's seen so many unusual wounds, poisons, etc, and has been around his own medicines for so long, that he shakes off effects. Possibly trade out the AC bonus for it? It makes his good saves even more relevant, but makes him a slight glass cannon against plain old swords. Or just give him Mettle and don't take anything away, I dunno.

Anyway, I like. I really like having 'non-magical' ways to fill all the class roles, and this does it nicely. If only I could convince my DMs to accept homebrew...

UncleWolf
2011-03-08, 04:27 PM
Alright, I have to admit, I had doubts when I saw the name of the class, but after reading through this, I must bow before you. :smallbiggrin:

*bows*

It's exactly the sort of wacky and odd concept I like to play.

That said, do you think it could be playable as it is, without the Toughen The Troops ability? If so, I was wondering if you wouldn't mind me playtesting it in a few PbP's here on the board(If I can get the GM to accept it of course) and posting any problems that I come across.

EDIT: Also, on the 13th level BAB, you have it as +9/+4/+3 where it should be +9/+4

Realms of Chaos
2011-03-08, 08:01 PM
I removed toughen the troops from the class table and fixed the BAB.

Actually just came up with a possible replacement for toughen the troops, though I can't be sure. At 2nd, 10th, and 18th level, I'd give a bonus fighter feat. At 6th and 14th level, I'd give the ability to lend bonus fighter feats you possess to creatures within an aura (granting 1 at 6th level and 2 at 14th level) and letting you switch between them as a swift action.

How would that sound?

arguskos
2011-03-08, 08:29 PM
I removed toughen the troops from the class table and fixed the BAB.

Actually just came up with a possible replacement for toughen the troops, though I can't be sure. At 2nd, 10th, and 18th level, I'd give a bonus fighter feat. At 6th and 14th level, I'd give the ability to lend bonus fighter feats you possess to creatures within an aura (granting 1 at 6th level and 2 at 14th level) and letting you switch between them as a swift action.

How would that sound?
A lot more reasonable, Realms. And besides, anything that makes better use of feat tags is good in my book!

I was half-afraid you'd quietly abandoned this class, to be honest.

UncleWolf
2011-03-08, 08:34 PM
Sounds like it might work, but it'd be odd if it was weapon focus that was passed onto the others. Instead, for levels 6 and 14, you could have something like the Dragon Shaman's Auras. Like Vigor at level 6 (Starts at Fast Healing 1, Fast Healing 2 at Level 12, 3 at Level 18) and Toughness at 14(DR 1/- at Level 14 and 2/- at Level 20).

Just as examples.

Realms of Chaos
2011-03-08, 08:42 PM
A lot more reasonable, Realms. And besides, anything that makes better use of feat tags is good in my book!

I was half-afraid you'd quietly abandoned this class, to be honest.

Bah, I don't abandon anything forever

Wolfbane: How would passing on weapon focus be odd? I could specify that all decisions you made for a feat (such as what weapon is selected by weapon focus) are passed on to allies as well. In all other circumstance, telling allies how to dodge blows (dodge), swing harder (power attack), and use a certain type of weapon better (weapon focus) seems to make sense.

Edit: I have just edited such text into the ability. Also, share expertise is a placeholder name so don't be afraid to share any better names you may have.

UncleWolf
2011-03-08, 08:57 PM
*reads it over*

You're right, that does make sense. As to my previous question about testing the class out, would you mind? I really am interested in it. :smallsmile:

Realms of Chaos
2011-03-08, 09:00 PM
Sure, go right ahead. Let me know how it turns out.

Re'ozul
2011-03-08, 09:01 PM
It seemed pretty workable to me.
I currently am using it in agame.(in gestalt with The Purifier (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=9803))

Not sure wether doing so without asking on wether it was complete was a faux pax.

UncleWolf
2011-03-08, 09:07 PM
Sweet. :smallbiggrin:

I'll be sure to tell you if I run into any problems.

Re'ozul
2011-03-08, 09:11 PM
For some reason the forum wouldn't let me connect there for a moment.

I actually found an item that might make it necessary to include something.

Magic Item compendium has the Caduceus bracers.
They convert 5 points of a class that has points as a healing currency (usually paladin or monk) into repairing one point of ability damage.

Maybe include that the Medics point system is different and does not work with items like that.

UncleWolf
2011-03-08, 09:23 PM
From what I can tell, the Medic's points are their own innate skills instead of divine or magic powers. So, I think the bracers wouldn't work.

Re'ozul
2011-03-08, 09:56 PM
Ouch with that wording since the bracers "allow you to convert your innate healing powers into other forms of restorative magic", though I guess you are right since the Medics ability isn't really magic at all.
I also of course know it wouldn't work, but people look for exploits all the time and I came across them when looking for equipment for my Pixie Warlock.